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Montana elk hunting conflicts #9406477 12/09/14
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,950 zip code 59602 R Royce OP Campfire Tracker
OP Royce Campfire Tracker R Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,950 zip code 59602	<a>http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/news/environment/canyon-ferry-hunters-counter-claims-of-no-ethics/article_264aa93a-7f64-11e4-b485-133775ab8d7a.html?utm_medium=desktop&utm_source=block_801085&utm_campaign=blox</a> Hopefully, the above link will work. If it doesn't there is an article in today's Bozeman Chronicle (Montana) that is pretty irritating, really. Apparently, a couple of wealthy landowners/outfitters have been hazing elk off public land onto their own land before legal shooting time. They also have been harassing hunters that were on public roads adjacent to public lands to stop them from being able to shoot "the outfitters" elk. The game wardens, according to hunters speaking in an open forum have been assisting the outfitter. I have absolutely no interest in harvesting an elk under these conditions, even if it's on public land, but for crying out loud, these outfitters and ranchers should have to obey the law, too. Worse, the outfitter involved in this is in the state senate, and is going to be on the Fish and Wildlife committee this session. Fred

GB1

Re: Montana elk hunting conflicts Royce #9406483 12/09/14
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,950 zip code 59602 R Royce OP Campfire Tracker
OP Royce Campfire Tracker R Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,950 zip code 59602	Link doesn't work- Would love to have somebody fix it-

Re: Montana elk hunting conflicts Royce #9406502 12/09/14
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,948 Unable to determine due to vel... J jryoung Campfire Regular
jryoung Campfire Regular J Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,948 Unable to determine due to vel...	http://www.bozemandailychronicle.co...ource=block_801085&utm_campaign=blox Wanted: Vintage Remington or Winchester hats, patches, shirts. PM me if you have something.

Re: Montana elk hunting conflicts jryoung #9406524 12/09/14
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 29,383 O Oldelkhunter Campfire Ranger
Oldelkhunter Campfire Ranger O Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 29,383	That is [bleep] sick. checkerboard property scattered throughout and absentee landowners hoarding all the game. Didn't that happen in England in Robin Hoods time ? If a game warden is involved in that then they need to be summarily fired

Re: Montana elk hunting conflicts Oldelkhunter #9406576 12/09/14
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,950 zip code 59602 R Royce OP Campfire Tracker
OP Royce Campfire Tracker R Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,950 zip code 59602	jryoung Thanks for fixing my link Fred

IC B2

Re: Montana elk hunting conflicts Royce #9406625 12/09/14
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 19,072 Colorado Springs, CO, USA S saddlesore Campfire Ranger
saddlesore Campfire Ranger S Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 19,072 Colorado Springs, CO, USA	Awhile back, I posted a similar situation of elk on private land and got flamed for it. This is nothing new here in Colorado. Call the local game warden and they say there is nothing they can do. Another told me that "Hey, we have to live with these people all year and you are only here a week out of 52. At a Hunters Round Table meeting, I brought it up and was told the DOW has to cater to the agricultural business because they provide a lot of winter habitat and forage. I called BS to them because the elk were there in the 1st and 2nd rifle season. If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles

Re: Montana elk hunting conflicts Royce #9407635 12/09/14
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 23,026 SW Montana V VarmintGuy Campfire Ranger
VarmintGuy Campfire Ranger V Joined: May 2003 Posts: 23,026 SW Montana	Royce: I am one of THE biggest critics of the now green leaning Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife & Parks, and have been for several years now. BUT... I think the single reference without prooof being provided "that some game wardens are herding Elk onto private property for outfitters" is just to much to swallow! I began Hunting in Montana in 1969 and to see what Elk Hunting in so many areas of Montana, has turned into, especially over the last 10 years, is simply SICKENING! Several of my non-resident friends and Hunting partners have QUIT buying the Montana Big Game Combo licenses and I can NOT blame them and their reasons (Wolves, outfitters, private land hold-outs etc etc etc) for doing so. I have another non-resident friend who is now plying me to Hunt Elk from my home in SW Montana next year and I just refuse to be part of it! The fact we would have to drive by SEVERAL private off limits type ranches, with huge healthy herds of Elk on them, to get to their former foothill haunts where VERY few Elk spend any time is just to much for me to bear. I know him well and he would he would bemoan his paying well over $900.00 to drive by these Elk and NOT be able to Hunt them - til I would vomit. No thanks. Many local folks I know do partake of the "chasing" of Elk as they get near private property fences and when some Elk make a mistake and step a foot off of these private ranches the "onslaught" ensues - thats NOT Hunting to me. Seeing and hearing about Elk being shot from firing lines and running the gaunlets is just not my idea of sport Hunting or ethical Hunting. Sadly more and more of Montana is being turned into this type of Hunting. I personally have not been able to see this Canyon Ferry situation for myself but have heard of it. This past Saturday at daybreak I headed off on a 330 mile drive here in SW Montana - I attended a gunshow in Hamilton, Montana. Our Elk season had been over for a week and on my drive I saw numerous Elk herds in five different huge valleys during my circle drive - ALL of those Elk were on private property! Figure this in before anyone buys a "non-resident" Elk licene for Montana. Thanks for the link. Thanks for nothing rmWf! Hold into the wind VarmintGuy

Re: Montana elk hunting conflicts VarmintGuy #9407926 12/09/14
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,950 zip code 59602 R Royce OP Campfire Tracker
OP Royce Campfire Tracker R Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,950 zip code 59602	There are two issues coming into play here, or rather three- The first issue is the amount of slob hunters out there- They are doing a tremendous amount of damage to the sport, I believe. Second issue IS NOT landowners who want to limit access to their land- They have a legal right to do so- The second issue, I think is landowners that haze elk onto their land, that try to intimidate legal hunters from hunting public land near their private land and shut off legal access to public land. Abolishing the corner crossing law in Montana would have opened up a lot of land to hunters, without actually even setting one foot on private property, but that was squashed. The third issue is the outright apathy of hunters. Hunters bitch like hell about wolves but ask one of them if they have actually been wolf hunting. Ask them if they ever contact their local lawmakers to ask for stiffer penalties for poachers and scoff laws.

Re: Montana elk hunting conflicts Royce #9407964 12/09/14
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,816 Montana Backroads Campfire Regular
Backroads Campfire Regular Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,816 Montana	Hopefully the corner crossing issue will be picked up again. I would love to see it on a ballot initiative. Outfitters herding elk surprises me none.

Re: Montana elk hunting conflicts Backroads #9408178 12/10/14
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 20,379 The Bozone, Montana Rancho_Loco Campfire Ranger
Rancho_Loco Campfire Ranger Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 20,379 The Bozone, Montana	I guess there was another flock shoot up near townsend on Tday, too.. Getting pretty bad out there on the flats. Originally Posted by captain seafire I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...

IC B3

Re: Montana elk hunting conflicts Rancho_Loco #9409713 12/10/14
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,792 OK conrad101st Campfire Regular
conrad101st Campfire Regular Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,792 OK	I assume corner crossing is when you can cross diagonal from public to public property but the other diagonal is private property (like in a 4 square game jumping from square 1 to 3 when 2 & 4 are off limits? I guess you have invaded someone's airspace for 1/2 second with your leg as you leap over?? Is there a statute against it?? Do they actually ticket you for it? Conrad101st 1/503 Inf., 2nd ID (90-91) 3/327 Inf., 101st ABN (91-92)

Re: Montana elk hunting conflicts conrad101st #9409991 12/10/14
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,950 zip code 59602 R Royce OP Campfire Tracker
OP Royce Campfire Tracker R Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,950 zip code 59602	conrad Yes, that's it. There was a "corner crossing" law put into hunting regs to prevent it. Often, that keeps hunters from accessing thousands of acres of public land, but allows the rancher/outfitter to have the exclusive access to those public lands.

Re: Montana elk hunting conflicts Royce #9410049 12/10/14
Joined: Jul 2013 Posts: 9,189 15 min from elk, MT H HuntnShoot Campfire Outfitter
HuntnShoot Campfire Outfitter H Joined: Jul 2013 Posts: 9,189 15 min from elk, MT	I hunted that area above that private land up in White's Gulch a bit this year. There was surprisingly little elk sign. I keep wondering where the hell the elk are, and then keep hearing about the huge herds down in the valley. It must be wolves or something pushing them out of the high country? There's so much terrain in the mountains there that it blows my mind that the elk herd up and head for the valley floor without deep snow to push them. It is very frustrating. Didn't even see any elk during the season this year, and I hunted hard. Saw relatively little sign as well. I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.

Re: Montana elk hunting conflicts HuntnShoot #9410176 12/10/14
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,950 zip code 59602 R Royce OP Campfire Tracker
OP Royce Campfire Tracker R Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,950 zip code 59602	I don't think it's the wolves pushing the elk down, I think it's all those good groceries they get from the cultivated fields around Avalanche Gulch, White's Gulch, Confederate Gulch. We go down there quite often outside of hunting season just to observe the elk. It's unusual especially in the winter to not see several hundred head of elk in the area.

Re: Montana elk hunting conflicts Royce #9410238 12/10/14
Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 19,059 Canyon Ferry, Montana M MontanaMarine Campfire Ranger
MontanaMarine Campfire Ranger M Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 19,059 Canyon Ferry, Montana	I hunted up Avalanche Gulch a few times this season. Saw some sign and fresh tracks in the deep thick stuff where there was a little water, and up on top. Saw some muleys which I couldn't tag, but no elk. Captured some scenery,

Re: Montana elk hunting conflicts MontanaMarine #9410559 12/10/14
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,950 zip code 59602 R Royce OP Campfire Tracker
OP Royce Campfire Tracker R Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,950 zip code 59602	nice pictures, Shane

Re: Montana elk hunting conflicts conrad101st #9410612 12/10/14
Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 2,535 Wyoming W wyoming260 Campfire Regular
wyoming260 Campfire Regular W Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 2,535 Wyoming	Originally Posted by conrad101st I assume corner crossing is when you can cross diagonal from public to public property but the other diagonal is private property (like in a 4 square game jumping from square 1 to 3 when 2 & 4 are off limits? I guess you have invaded someone's airspace for 1/2 second with your leg as you leap over?? Is there a statute against it?? Do they actually ticket you for it? Yes and maybe..... Wyoming the ranchers get all sore about corner jumping.... heck they get upset if you hunt a 6 section area of State land trust land that their sheep are mowing flat for almost free......

Re: Montana elk hunting conflicts wyoming260 #9412541 12/11/14
Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 19,059 Canyon Ferry, Montana M MontanaMarine Campfire Ranger
MontanaMarine Campfire Ranger M Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 19,059 Canyon Ferry, Montana	It's a nice sight to see the elk spread out on the flats during the off season. Pic looks a lot better in full size, you can click reply to see. Last edited by MontanaMarine; 12/11/14.

Re: Montana elk hunting conflicts VarmintGuy #9414574 12/12/14
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 420 C creasy Campfire Member
creasy Campfire Member C Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 420	Originally Posted by VarmintGuy Royce: I am one of THE biggest critics of the now green leaning Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife & Parks, and have been for several years now. BUT... I think the single reference without prooof being provided "that some game wardens are herding Elk onto private property for outfitters" is just to much to swallow! I began Hunting in Montana in 1969 and to see what Elk Hunting in so many areas of Montana, has turned into, especially over the last 10 years, is simply SICKENING! Several of my non-resident friends and Hunting partners have QUIT buying the Montana Big Game Combo licenses and I can NOT blame them and their reasons (Wolves, outfitters, private land hold-outs etc etc etc) for doing so. I have another non-resident friend who is now plying me to Hunt Elk from my home in SW Montana next year and I just refuse to be part of it! The fact we would have to drive by SEVERAL private off limits type ranches, with huge healthy herds of Elk on them, to get to their former foothill haunts where VERY few Elk spend any time is just to much for me to bear. I know him well and he would he would bemoan his paying well over $900.00 to drive by these Elk and NOT be able to Hunt them - til I would vomit. No thanks. Many local folks I know do partake of the "chasing" of Elk as they get near private property fences and when some Elk make a mistake and step a foot off of these private ranches the "onslaught" ensues - thats NOT Hunting to me. Seeing and hearing about Elk being shot from firing lines and running the gaunlets is just not my idea of sport Hunting or ethical Hunting. Sadly more and more of Montana is being turned into this type of Hunting. I personally have not been able to see this Canyon Ferry situation for myself but have heard of it. This past Saturday at daybreak I headed off on a 330 mile drive here in SW Montana - I attended a gunshow in Hamilton, Montana. Our Elk season had been over for a week and on my drive I saw numerous Elk herds in five different huge valleys during my circle drive - ALL of those Elk were on private property! Figure this in before anyone buys a "non-resident" Elk licene for Montana. Thanks for the link. Thanks for nothing rmWf! Hold into the wind VarmintGuy Hunting Montana since 1969 you should have some of the basics figured out by now. Ya see this time of year elk are on the winter range and winter range in western Montana is generally private. More lessons to follow. Sheesh!

Re: Montana elk hunting conflicts creasy #9416402 12/13/14
Joined: Jul 2013 Posts: 9,189 15 min from elk, MT H HuntnShoot Campfire Outfitter
HuntnShoot Campfire Outfitter H Joined: Jul 2013 Posts: 9,189 15 min from elk, MT	I hunted up in Avalanche a few times earlier in the season, near Harris, and over the top into Magpie. Saw quite a few deer. Spotty elk sign and no elk. Like those pics, Shane. The elk are doing something different than in recent years, because we were finding them, and now we aren't. Whatever the cause, it sucks. I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.

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