There is another thing to consider in this case. The US has laws that permit extradition of people that murder US citizens in a foreign nation (under certain circumstances). Germany does also and Markus Kaarma might be charged in Germany and the German government could request extradition. Probably unlikely, but possible.
Kaarma would not have been found not guilty with a million dollar attorney.
It was his 'character' that led to his conviction.
I am privvy to the amount of money Kaarma's family spent on this case. They have serious coin and you would not believe the amount spent. They had four lawyers!! Frankly, the lawyers treated Kaarma's family like a cash cow. Believe it or not, the amount spent was not far from a mil. That's all I'm gonna say on it.
Jordan
Communists: I still hate them even after they changed their name to "liberals". ____________________
My boss asked why I wasn't working. I told him I was being a democrat for Halloween.
This a case of when a$$holes collide. I think Karma was nuts, and he did some really stupid things to hang himself. The kid deserved a good ass whippen, but I don't think he deserved to be shot (well, maybe with a load of salt rock).
What if that was a neighbor kid chasing his pet cat into Karma's garage? I believe in the castle doctrine and the right to self defense, but I think this was a case of neither.
"Life is tough, even tougher if your stupid" John Wayne
The best lawyers in the world can't save you from your own stupid statements.
Two things: 1) Only a fool would set a trap like that for someone he knew wasn't a threat; and 2) Only a bigger fool would tell ANYONE about it beforehand if he did and give any kind of statement afterwards.
Whatever the facts of what the man actually did, given that the kid was clearly an intruder in another's home, there would never/could never have been a conviction without statements from the accused before and after the event. Ninety percent of the people in prison today would not be there if they could master one simple skill, shut up.
As a counter point as I know a bit about this case.
Guy went out to his driveway (after starting his SUV to warm-up) in the am before heading off to work and witnessed his SUV being stolen. As the SUV was speeding away he fired a single shot, killing the car thief. End result .... not guilty.
It's not necessarily the act but rather your character that is on trial.
The best lawyers in the world can't save you from your own stupid statements.
Two things: 1) Only a fool would set a trap like that for someone he knew wasn't a threat; and 2) Only a bigger fool would tell ANYONE about it beforehand if he did and give any kind of statement afterwards.
Whatever the facts of what the man actually did, given that the kid was clearly an intruder in another's home, there would never/could never have been a conviction without statements from the accused before and after the event. Ninety percent of the people in prison today would not be there if they could master one simple skill, shut up.
I don't think that's what caused the jury to reach the decision that they did.
The man that was shot did not enter an occupied building. I don't think the defense could provide any sort of proof that the garage was an occupied building.
Travis
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
Shortly after college dad and I were driven off Sam Rayburn by a thunderstorm on a July holiday weekend. I motored dads little bass rig up a long winding willow lined branch, tied up and we walked the trail through the woods to camp where we fried some fish. After eating we headed down to the boat where we found no rods or battery. I had two fenwick glass rods I made up with 5000 Cs and tackle box stolen.
How I wished I had returned a little earlier with my model 94.
Last edited by eyeball; 12/18/14.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
"Montana Shooting Sports Association President Gary Marbut said those laws were not in question during the Kaarma trial. Neither, he added, was the "Castle Doctrine" concept that a person is entitled to use lethal force in self-defense.
But a legal change that Marbut supported in the 2009 Legislature did get tested and come through with a good result, he said. That was a new law that required the prosecution to prove someone claiming self-defense was in fact guilty, instead of making the defendant prove innocence.
�That�s the standard that applied to the Kaarma trial, and the prosecution was able to meet that burden,� Marbut said."
It's a fairly well known fact a lot of Missoula HS students go into garages in hopes of finding booze, which was apparently the German kids motivation.
Teenage kids do stupid and irresponsible things that don't deserve what is essentially an execution. If that's not true, we'd all have been executed by age 17...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Teenage kids do stupid and irresponsible things that don't deserve what is essentially an execution. If that's not true, we'd all have been executed by age 17...
I call BS on that. It would have been much younger...
"Montana Shooting Sports Association President Gary Marbut said those laws were not in question during the Kaarma trial. Neither, he added, was the "Castle Doctrine" concept that a person is entitled to use lethal force in self-defense.
But a legal change that Marbut supported in the 2009 Legislature did get tested and come through with a good result, he said. That was a new law that required the prosecution to prove someone claiming self-defense was in fact guilty, instead of making the defendant prove innocence.
�That�s the standard that applied to the Kaarma trial, and the prosecution was able to meet that burden,� Marbut said."
It's a fairly well known fact a lot of Missoula HS students go into garages in hopes of finding booze, which was apparently the German kids motivation.
Teenage kids do stupid and irresponsible things that don't deserve what is essentially an execution. If that's not true, we'd all have been executed by age 17...
except for all the stupid chit i and my friends did, two things we did not do were steal and go into strangers houses....yeah we destroyed chit but it belonged to one of us....we damn near killed each other in our stupidity but we werent stealing chit from people......
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
But you don't have kids (at least you've stated as much on here before) so what you would or wouldn't do in regards to anything your kid would do is just blather.
Stick to faeries and pixies.
I don't have any biological children but I do have foster daughters and plenty of nieces and nephews. I'm one cold hearted bastard. If any of the kids I love and care about are going to go around and do stupid stuff like break into or walk into a garage with the purpose of stealing stuff and they get shot tough luck. Yes, I'll grieve for them but you will never ever hear me say they were the pillars of the community and didn't deserve to die. I don't buy into kids will be kids and kids shouldn't have to pay for doing stupid stuff. Stupid hurts. And no I was never ever a stupid kid. Beatings hurt but it helps prevent stupid.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
Montana law 45-3-103. Use of force in defense of occupied structure. (1) A person is justified in the use of force or threat to use force against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that the use of force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry into or attack upon an occupied structure. (2) A person justified in the use of force pursuant to subsection (1) is justified in the use of force likely to cause death or serious bodily harm only if: (a) the entry is made or attempted and the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent an assault upon the person or another then in the occupied structure; or (b) the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent the commission of a forcible felony in the occupied structure.
Comes down to reasonably believes.
That's the Castle Doctrine and it certainly doesn't apply to Kaarma.
Well, actually, it does apply. Unfortunately, it applies to convict, not exonerate him.
That's true. I stand corrected.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
The way I read the story, again this assumes there is any truth to the media reports, is he set up the whole thing as a trap to entice and someone into an open garage so he could kill them.
Mind you the dead kid did enter the garage and thus was trespassing but I still don't see self defence or castle doctrine in this case. Looks like the jury didn't see it either.
That appears to be what happened.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
That was my thought as well, DD couldn't have a kid and say that. Billy G, for the record, I've never stolen anything, but like you, did some dumb chit when young.
I answered Billy Goat. I don't live in a bubble.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
