Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Question For PA Deer Hunters???

I've been thinking....

We need more early "special" seasons. Like one for those who use 100 old lever actions. 2 days with a peep sight and 4 with open.

One for weapons they no longer make shells for. You are handicapped in having to make your own.

Self made flint tipped spear if you have a drop of Eastern Indian blood in your veins. Certified via a notarized Ancestry.com family history.

For the PC crowd, a Non-resident early opener for those whose season starts within the first week of ours.

One for those who have 2 cranks, verified by a board certified Pa licensed urologist, along with a picture that will be attached to your license. The pic is only needed to make it easier on the GW's. They are handicapped because they probably have little time to hunt and a special season allows them to hunt on a day off.

We get enough "special" seasons and pretty soon we can shut down the 2 weeks starting the Monday after Thanksgiving.

We may not agree AR, but we certainly agree on the fact the GC is off base on the number of Deer taken by archers.

A friend asked an acquaintance why he loves archery so much. Answer? "I can hunt on Sundays."

Addition: Re the forest. Why the big push to mow all the Beech down? Around the ANF the State has a war on Beech trees. Why? They don't care about cutting down a Deer food source. They do care about growing a Cherry tree future cash crop.

Thats part of my issue with sundays but again I wont expand on that. But the poaching issue also had me against mentored youth, when implemented you needed no tag. Now we have tags but we're selling them to 1 and 2 year old hunters. Ok, they say those arent filled but it opens the door, especially when we dont have enough WCO's to enforce the state. Poaching is an issue, always will be an issue, and a big one at that. Head to the hills, any PA hills, in the spring and BS with the locals. Theyll tell ya how manh gobblers they got....weeks before the season opens. Deer are no different. And some of these extra opportunities facilitate such actions. Ah, is what it is I supposed.

Bad part about typing on an tablet is I one finger it and til im done someone else responds or edits their post...lol.

Im not familiar with those cuts but id be interested in finding out. Hear anything let me know, id appreciate it.

My roots and what is left of family is in the country. Poaching was a family tradition and they were not stupid about it. I eventually shied away from hunting with them because you were always looking over your shoulder and it wasn't fun.

Just this year one of them continued the tradition....

The majority of poachers don't reside in the city. Yet the city folk get the brunt of most of the jokes.

Ask someone to take a drive on the open logging/gas roads that go thru the ANF. The edge Beech trees are cut down and left in piles.
I hunt Grouse up there a good bit. If we are not snowed out up that way, I'll take some pics to show you.

I know no one who hunts over that way, maybe someone who does can pop in and give us some info.


I got to thinkin last night and I wonder, how do YOU scout(open question for anyone)?

Personally, It is quite rare to step foot in the area I am going to hunt, unless its a new area, in which I do my scouting in the summer/early fall months. I just dont want to stink up the area. No taking stands in early, checking for feed/scat, setting trail cams, etc. Then I put on my thinking cap and think, where would I be if I was a deer? How would I use this land. At times, I need google maps for a kick start, and memories of where ive seen deer before. Right before the season, and sometimes during the season, I drive.



and get around to some different places





Sometimes ill see this



but id rather see this



or this



Then I know theyre there TODAY. Ill pass by quickly and think where and why ill see them TOMORROW.

At that point, I already know from memory or this years scouting where they will be, and how they will use, the area. Next step is to pick 3-6 spots plan a route that will hit each spot. On Monday morning I hit those spots in fashion I chose the night before. What I want is an easy route that I can see whose where(hunters) on my way in. If I see vehicles I keep on truckin. Remember what I said before, I dont want to be near you, if at all possible. Sometimes, youll have company, most times not. Never know where ill end up, til I get there.

I might hunt here

[img]http://s22.postimg.org/pgrtnfr35/20121126_155105.jpg[/img]

here

[img]http://s7.postimg.org/ui3g05i6j/20141129_110931.jpg[/img]


or here

[img]http://s23.postimg.org/dr0ejmsmz/20141201_082210.jpg[/img]

First thing I do is get to my spot as quietly as possible, light a cigarette to calm down(screw the wind) and know he WILL show up sooner or later(if not ill 2nd guess myself and thats a no no). If it dont pan out, I use a new spot the next day, UNLESS im hunting an escape route. I know theyre pressured which is why im on the escape route, and they might be holed up. If thats the case I give it 3 days. The pressure will be gone after the 2nd day.

Id like to post more, but that would get to basics(ridges, saddles, inside/outside corners, etc) and we should already know how deer use the land.

Again, how do you scout and get set up?

Battue- Not quite sure of what the forest types are were you are seeing the beech being cut. But, here in parts of IN, sugar maple and beech are taking over areas that were historically other species. Usually due to a lack of fire and or cutting, especially clear cutting. Lack of clear cutting, IMO, is why we may not have a ruffed grouse season next year.

Experienced this myself. As pahick points out, everyone in certain families gets a doe license and in many only one shooter exists. I've never been fond of this and also shy away. I have a cousin who's about to lose his license for life due to shooting/tagging illegal deer with and without tags. He's a little slow on the uptake.....

On antler restrictions, I grew up in/around Meadville, PA. It has always and will always produce both big bodied and big racks. I do believe AR has helped grow more large racked deer in that part of PA. I think this is because it allows 1.5 year old deer to get through their first season without getting shot. By season 2, most are small 8 pt and legal but many of them get a pass if they inhabit areas with honest hunters who attempt to ensure 4 points on a side. The result is a 3.5 year old deer. This is when they start looking mature - larger racks, full body size, and smarter than the rest of the deer herd.

As an example, the past 2 years I've seen 3-4 bucks on opening day. Shot a nice 10 pt last year, passed on a legal 1/2 rack this year, and missed a dandy the first Saturday. Before AR, it was not common to see multiple bucks - at any time of the season.

AR in the 'big woods' seem to me to be OK but not overtly necessary. There is big enough 'woods'/cover/area for a mature buck to hide and more importantly a younger buck to learn how to hide without getting shot. Hunting bears in Clinton/Lycoming/Centre counties demonstrated that to me. I've seen some very nice bucks while bear hunting - mostly 1-3 miles off the road in some remote areas.

Overall, I'm fairly positive on AR. I do see some downsides but overall think they do produce more larger racked bucks.

Ready to start work, so quick.

They have been clear cutting 5000 acres per year in the ANF for some time now. There are clear cuts of all age groups. Some are relatively large. Grouse are there, but not in the numbers one would expect.

Our Grouse seem to have more inclination to run. Have Buds with better than good Dogs and we are increasingly getting false points. With snow you often see tracks that end and often the tell tale markes of wing beats where they took off.

Coyotes are on the rise? Do the Grouse think the Dog is a Coyote?

Gunplummer- Rosenberry and Wallingford are biologists in the Deer management section of the PGC. As far as harvest reporting, PGC deer aging teams go to butcher shops and check ear tags and then check them against report cards. Without knowing which WMU you're in, I would only guess that area is one where they decision was made to increase or stabilize the doe population.

Whit--How many old timer hunters go to butcher shops? It has been years since I dropped one off at a butcher shop, and only because of the warm weather and I had to go to work that night. It is real common around here for hunting "Crews", or families, to have all the equipment a butcher shop does. Have you seen the big push at Cabela's (Just a couple mountains over from me) to sell deer processing equipment? The deer count is a system that's time never was. Guessing deer kill? Even if it was a semi-accurate system 20 years ago, how can it be now? Suppose 70 hunters out of a 100 were getting deer in 1985 and not reporting it. Now suppose that 50 of those same guys see and kill no deer in the last 4 years and do not report it. Under Alt, the GC KNEW the lies. I brought up the FACT that on report cards, one used to designate whether or not it was a public land kill or private land kill. This stopped soon after hunters started to complain about deer numbers. A representative for the GC told me there never was such a thing. He also denied that the GC claimed there were 38 deer per square wooded mile in PA, even after two years of record deer kills. I will tell you how out of touch the GC used to be. Are you familiar with the little black and white maps the GC puts in the GAME NEWS magazine? I remember one that was for crop damage (I am guessing it was the mid 90's) across the whole state. I showed it to some guys I work with and they could not believe it. The map showed 500 (+- 10) for the WHOLE state that year. One of my co-workers said "There are that many killed in a 5 mile radius of here." The problem with the GC staff is the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing. The Deer Management word use to be that the deer were eating the laurel down to the roots. For years we were seeing yellow and orange spots on the laurel leaves. I could see the difference in big areas I had hunted for years that were starting to thin out. Now it is accepted that the PA laurel has a blight. Maybe the Tree and Bush section finally talked to the Deer Management Section? The PAGC is getting better, but has a long way to go.

battue--- I don't know what the National Forests have in mind, but when the GC cuts, it is about money. I had hunted one mountain (Large company holding) since I was a kid. A few years back the PAGC bought it. It was always a good place to hunt and still is. I was talking to some of the locals that were around when the GC was surveying and checking the place out. When the locals asked what was going to happen, the answer was "This place is in bad shape. We have to do some improvements". The top and sides are covered with white and red oak saw log timber. We lucked out. The terrain is so rough they can't get in to log, and the one access point was denied them. I have been hunting a mountain in WV for over 20 years. It has a section that was clear cut right before I started going down there. Believe me, after about 4 years, nothing good comes of clear cutting where the topsoil is thin.

I am glad I started this thread. Upon getting a button buck on last day and discussing it with other I am suprised at the atttitdues towards turning in harvest report cards. How else can the GC make changes.

Since I have mainly hunted on the same 1200 acres for some time my scouting is mainly checking on who is doing what this year. Since that piece got sold this year, I'm going to have to get a little more serious.

If I read your post right, once you find a couple spots you pretty much hang out there until he shows up. I'll hang out in one place maybe for the first hour and the last 2 max. In between I'm roaming and stopping here and there for a bit, but mostly on the move trying to see them before they see me. Probably cost me more Bucks than I know, but looking at the same cover for too long drives me nuts. What is going on over the hill????

Anyway, in the course of scouting we run across these also:





I really wanted to run across this fellow again during the season, but didn't.



Some times we run across a little fight over the ladies:





Caught a couple while wearing Lacrosse Alphas down here.

Oh yeah, they are out there. I will never believe the buck/doe ratio was out of kilter where I used to hunt in the 80's. Once a deer gets through a gun season, they really wise up fast and you just do not see the bucks. I was living on the Lehigh /Bucks county border a few years ago. It was farms and housing with scattered woodlots around and behind the houses. We had patches of woods and scrub plus an open power line behind us. I was seeing what I thought was a big doe and three small ones moving up and down the power line almost every day. I was taking classes at the time and was going to miss almost the whole deer 2 week season. I shot the big doe. Surprise! It was an exceptionally large button buck. A couple days later I saw the other three in the woods next to the house feeding. Now I am curious. I glassed them and all three were button bucks. On new years eve, in the morning, I tried for another doe. There were two hot does running around on the power line. I could see Mr. Big's rack as he followed them around in the brush. He would not step out in the daylight. He had a hidey hole down in a patch of woods across the power line that was surrounded by houses. That same day a nice eight was chasing the two does around on the power line. I believe it is the same in the bigger wooded areas now too. I actually believe there are more bucks than does out there where I hunt now. I kind of always thought the ratio was about 50/50, you just did not see the bucks often.

I don't get why people do not report deer either because it will not even cost you a stamp. I always reported the deer I got, except for road kills I picked up, and if I get one now I report it because it is not a hassle anymore.

I always send our report cards in.

Whoever thinks AR will not, in the long term downgrade, the gene pool does not understand what they are talking about. No breedstock producer looks at an inferior male and says lets remove that prize bull and give the retard a chance to breed till his potential shows up. Rarely watch the hunting shows, but when a spike, or in some cases a forkhorn, shows it is considered a management buck. Once a spike not always a spike, but probably inferior. Why let it breed. I try to look for something good to say when condemning but the pgc makes that hard sometimes