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What's the difference in price? Hate to say it but Leupold broke my heart. I'd look at the Nightforce...

Just having to send things in for repair. Even though it comes back fixed, a guy shouldn't have to do that. I have had one particular product line from Leupold that seems to want to return home frequently; the VX3's and Variable Mark 4's with the 30mm tubes. The Mark 4 M5 A2 is simply the best scope I or anyone I know has ever seen, on the other hand.

I realize that all scopes break or fail regardless of the brand, but the 30mm tube offerings from Leupold seem to be prone to this for some reason.

I realize that all scopes break or fail regardless of the brand, but the 30mm tube offerings from Leupold seem to be prone to this for some reason.

I put little value in reports from those with an agenda. Formi and EHG have no agenda but do have lots of experience with various optics. When they talk I listen.

how 'bout the 34mm tube offerings?

I put little value in reports from those with an agenda.

Always amusing around here.

Well, thanks for thinking I'm awesome

I don't think you're awesome, but you can read in to it what you must to feel good about yourself darling... In reality I see you as an Egotistical prick going through a midlife crisis/menopause which ever fits your scenario, surfing the internet to get the cyber pat on the back that you are special...

The pics were posted simply to illustrate results of using Leupold optics. I'm positive that anyone else who can shoot would have the same results using the same optics.

Only someone with a true emotional hard on for a particular outcome could say that while looking at undeniable results obtained with the product. The pictures are IN FACT proof the scope's durability, tracking, zero retention.

How do the pics show proof of the scope's durability, tracking, zero retention... The internet is supposed to believe it because it's YOU... The pics do nothing for the Leupold optic line... A good sample of one here and there is bound to happen... For the most part Leupys are fine for the average guy who is not going to push an optic, use it in rough conditions, and is willing to pamper it as the delicate object it is on a daily basis... At one time I used nothing but Leupold... Day in and day out... Then the failures started... Over and over... One here and there is gonna happen... But not every single variable (except one) a guy has in his tool box... We understand you're a Leupy Poster gal.... Trying to mask a product with a high failure rate as something amazing shows no more that how attached you are to said product whether financially/emotionally... I could post pics of groups and animals at random distances and say they were shot with X brand and at X distance and who would really no the difference... Its the internet dumbass...

You're statement says that my ability can overcome poor equipment which is a nice compliment, but not true

Fixed it for you...

I chose to show those examples of the awesome results I've had with Leupold simply because it happened within the last awesome week of my awesome life. As you can see, Leupold did an awesome job of repairing it

I highly doubt all the pics you posted in this thread happened in the last week but its your story... Tell it how you'd like...

I think those folks for whom Leupold scopes have worked well probably can shoot...for those that think Leupold is junk probably can't shoot.

I can't shoot worth a chit... You got me there... Ones mans junk is another mans treasure.... You must feel like a Pirate...

It's a lot easier to blame the optic than to admit a complete lack of awesomeness

Until your optic fails... Then where does the blame lie... I'd of thought you'd have figured that out by now Turbo...

I buy my Leupolds just like anyone else. What is my "agenda" ?

Very interesting John. Any of those scopes VX-3's ?
I had a chance to shoot with one of the local sheriff's TAC Squad guys not long ago. About 2/3's of them were shooting fancy looking AR-10 rifles with Leupold VX-3's. Hunting scopes, not Mk.4 scopes.
They worked as they should.
BTW, in Kalifornia, any police sniper must shoot his rilfe at least once a month. He must record the weather conditions, and note exactly where his first and last round hit. If he shows up in court over any shots he took, he must be able to prove the rifle was properly zeroed, etc. E

I had a chance to shoot with one of the local sheriff's TAC Squad guys not long ago.

And they will shoot one hole groups.



Until they fail again. And they will.


There are at least 4 different sets of videos on YouTube testing multiple scopes like the ones above. In every single case the Leupolds and Vortex's have problems. In every case the Nightforce's work correctly. Every mechanical object can and will fail. I saw a briefing in the not to distant past with the recorded failure rates of every then current US military issued sniper optic. Two things stood out-

1) Everything we were seeing in the field was correct.

2) Nightforce NXS's are the most reliable, durable scopes ever fielded.



Leupold variable scopes are extremely prone to failure. Every organization that uses them in large numbers and collects data says the same thing.

Short range bench rest- Leupold's weak erectors well known

50cal benchrest- dominated by Nightforce, Leupolds problems well known

US Military- evey sniper course, branch marksmanship unit, and most snipers all say the same.

Rifles Only- 20- 30% failure rate of student issued Leupold Sniper Scopes in 5 day courses



A little history.....


Every Military scope for the last 5-6 years have had a Horus Reticle as a requirement. There are multiple reasons for this, not the least of which that when the SPR and M110 came online with their variable Mark 4's, there were so many failures that it became common to not only hold instead of dialing but being taught holds instead of dialing. Holding for all shots with regular mil reticles sucks. However, most did not have access to other scopes and did not realize that there were scopes that worked perfectly. Along comes Horus. It was an easy sell, nobody wanted to touch their turrets and it made holding more accurate. The biggest benefit that was being pushed is not having to dial, because "we all know that sometimes scopes don't work"... BOOM every scope from then on out has had, and will have a Horus reticle as a requirement.

They only two groups in the conventional and white special operations forces that didn't jump on the Horus bandwagon immediately was Navel Special Warfare and the Marine Corps. This was because they either didn't use Leupolds or had switched almost every optic over to another brand and were not seeing failures.

No currently issued Leupold has won a full and open competition against their peers. Most sniper weapon system contracts are for the system. I.e.- the manufacturer can use whatever scope they want as long as it meets specs. The scopes are not tested separately for function. Leupold, like a certain manufacturer of semi auto sniper rifles, has DEEP ties with manufacturers, and therefore gets it's optics on most systems that are submitted. Just because a piece of equipment is issued doesn't mean that it was the best or even competed against others. The 1.1-8x Mark 8, the 3-18x ECOS and the 6.5-20x 34mm tube Mark 4 Leupold are all examples of this.


Don't confuse what some are using as necessarily what is best, especially the vast majority in the military. Most have no choice or don't know better, and even those who do have to use all of the issued equipment to remain current. I use plenty of Leupolds, S&B's, Nightforce's and one or two others, because they are issued optics.




Manufactures will keep building junk, if people keep buying.

ehg don't know as much as he thinks he knows? That's some Grade-A humor right there...
Tanner

You are correct and I guess I shoulda watched the video before making my comment... I took for granted it would be the same bitching and complaining of how the March does not track in true Mils etc... I stand corrected and my statement should be a general statement of the current March scope product line and not directed towards the video... I only watched the first video and then posted the others as I am working off my phone with sub par service... Ive been able to watch the Vortex, March and half of the Leupy video and am not at all surprised of the results...

So what's your reply to the fact that only 2 (two) of the Top 50 precision rifle shooters in the country are using Nightforce scopes.

John,
I was in the community when the change happened. I was there when Tod starting pushing them. I know what drove it. I know why it continues, and why it's the correct choice. I also know that despite the legitimate use for it, that ain't the whole reason we have it.


Stop with the "I know cool people" stuff. You may, and probably do. But that doesn't matter. I used one of the very first S&B's that had a Horus in it. I was in the school when one of the very first was being tested. Most shooters don't care why stuff happens or why they have what they have, they just use what they are given. And that includes the very top.