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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 |
We were discussing the whys and why nots of having the best chamnber design (long to take advantage of today's long high BC bullets) and the best twist rate to accommodate these heavier bullets and thinking out loud I threw out what this might mean to Joe 6 pack who is stuck with only factory ammo. I said going with a nice fast twist rate would have no ill effects for Joe 6 pack or anyone else, its a slam dunk. Then I said the above, that going beyond SAAMI throat length may not work the optimum for SAAMI (factory) length ammo. That was nit picking, a "what if" type take on the matter. All I meant is the twist is a no brainer, throat design not necessarily. ie how much of a jump will the bullets be happy with, you'd have to experiment and see. I realise now I should have left the last bit out I've just muddied the waters with nit picking there. Apologies to all for lack of clarity. Even Big Stick, sort of.  Please stop. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,819
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,819 |
We were discussing the whys and why nots of having the best chamnber design (long to take advantage of today's long high BC bullets) and the best twist rate to accommodate these heavier bullets and thinking out loud I threw out what this might mean to Joe 6 pack who is stuck with only factory ammo. I said going with a nice fast twist rate would have no ill effects for Joe 6 pack or anyone else, its a slam dunk. Then I said the above, that going beyond SAAMI throat length may not work the optimum for SAAMI (factory) length ammo. That was nit picking, a "what if" type take on the matter. All I meant is the twist is a no brainer, throat design not necessarily. ie how much of a jump will the bullets be happy with, you'd have to experiment and see. I realise now I should have left the last bit out I've just muddied the waters with nit picking there. Apologies to all for lack of clarity. Even Big Stick, sort of. The highlighted parts are what suggest you don't have a handle on it yet. The long VLD type bullets often need a shorter throat.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,127
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,127 |
We were discussing the whys and why nots of having the best chamnber design (long to take advantage of today's long high BC bullets) and the best twist rate to accommodate these heavier bullets and thinking out loud I threw out what this might mean to Joe 6 pack who is stuck with only factory ammo. I said going with a nice fast twist rate would have no ill effects for Joe 6 pack or anyone else, its a slam dunk. Then I said the above, that going beyond SAAMI throat length may not work the optimum for SAAMI (factory) length ammo. That was nit picking, a "what if" type take on the matter. All I meant is the twist is a no brainer, throat design not necessarily. ie how much of a jump will the bullets be happy with, you'd have to experiment and see. I realise now I should have left the last bit out I've just muddied the waters with nit picking there. Apologies to all for lack of clarity. Even Big Stick, sort of. The highlighted parts are what suggest you don't have a handle on it yet. The long VLD type bullets often need a shorter throat. OK I get that but help me out here, why are longer than normal throats used by some? Is that just a local thing around here? And I thought that type of design is what was being discussed a couple pages back.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,819
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,819 |
There is magazine length and then there is throat length.
For example, I shoot a lot of 308 Win. rounds, and I'd love it if my Remington 700 rifles had a bit longer magazines and shorter throats at the same time.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,127
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,127 |
OK I'll take the dumb ass award now. Looking at some of the long range bullets drawings I see what you mean that although long the bearing surface isn't they require a short throat. Thanks for setting me straight. I'll go downstairs and sort out my interlocks now...
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
Real long throats could potentially take away from the best accuracy with factory length ammo though. Then what brought on this comment? We were discussing the whys and why nots of having the best chamnber design (long to take advantage of today's long high BC bullets) and the best twist rate to accommodate these heavier bullets and thinking out loud I threw out what this might mean to Joe 6 pack who is stuck with only factory ammo. I said going with a nice fast twist rate would have no ill effects for Joe 6 pack or anyone else, its a slam dunk. Then I said the above, that going beyond SAAMI throat length may not work the optimum for SAAMI (factory) length ammo. That was nit picking, a "what if" type take on the matter. All I meant is the twist is a no brainer, throat design not necessarily. ie how much of a jump will the bullets be happy with, you'd have to experiment and see. I realise now I should have left the last bit out I've just muddied the waters with nit picking there. Apologies to all for lack of clarity. Even Big Stick, sort of. Bless your heart
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 590
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 590 |
Two questions
1. Who makes the barrels
2. Are you going to throat them out like a Remington and have the bullets jumping .140 to mag feed?
Being able to control throat length is the main reason I go the custom route.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
they are keeping the barrel maker confidential.
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 590
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 590 |
they are keeping the barrel maker confidential. Count me out then
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
I remember back when John Burns, owner of Grey Bull rifles, came here and he too wanted to keep the barrel maker confidential. Similar type thread as this one with lots of folks, including me, breaking his balls about the barrel maker. One day I just said, well we know that he is using one of the top flight barrel makers and there are no secret barrel makers out there that I'm aware of, so I stopped participating in the back and forth. So the bottom line is his rifles are very accurate and these new rifles come with an accuracy guarantee (I think it's sub MOA but I'm not sure).
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
Plenty of Remington tubes go sub MOA. MOA guarentee is like a guarentee that a round wheel will roll.
I read "top secret" barrel maker as its probably not one you'd wait in line to buy. If it was, it'd be printed in bold.
Then again, Kentucky Fried Chicken as a secret recipe too...
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
yes, the odds are way in your favor of having an accurate Remington barrel, but it's not guaranteed.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,483
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,483 |
I read "top secret" barrel maker as its probably not one you'd wait in line to buy. If it was, it'd be printed in bold.
Exactly! Keeping the barrel maker confidential means that it's not something to brag about. Probably accurate? Yeah. Considered among the best? Not likely.
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Joined: May 2012
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,705 |
Might be that they intend to source from more than one maker?
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,483
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,483 |
Well then say so. GAP is happy to tell people what barrel they are using. I guess when that barrel is a Bartlein there's nothing to hide.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,041
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,041 |
The guy who runs Accuracy Systems, Inc. (Ruger Mini-14 conversions) keeps his barrel maker a secret too and his guns are phenomenally accurate and just fine in the barrel wear department. It shouldn't be a deal killer, 'specially given Legendary's price point.
Communists: I still hate them even after they changed their name to "liberals".
____________________
My boss asked why I wasn't working. I told him I was being a democrat for Halloween.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,688
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,688 |
How much would one expect them to pay for a barrel given the price of the rifle?
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,705
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,705 |
They just might want the flexibility to change suppliers without having to start a new thread on here.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
They just might want the flexibility to change suppliers without having to start a new thread on here. How much would one expect them to pay for a barrel given the price of the rifle? I think that these last two quotes probably have a lot to do with it. Most of the AR rifle companies advertise exactly the same way as LAW is and nobody seems to get horned up about it. Someone mentioned GAP rifles and to my knowledge the least expensive rifle they make is 3 grand and it wears a B&C stock as well. It does have a custom action though.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
At least most AR companies know how to twist them.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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