Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles AR Pistols - ATF Wants Ban M855

AR pistols are and always have been a joke. Little toys for little boys. Add the SIG brace into the mix and you've got trouble. All of this unwanted scrutiny has opened yet another door to the BATFE to decide what's best for the responsible end of the firearms ownership spectrum...

ATF FRAMEWORK FOR DETERMINING WHETH...N THE MEANING OF 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(C)

This is a call to action. I'd contact your congressman and representative every week until this is decided and let them know what a bad idea this is. More backdoor gun control. Spread the word...

So are you saying all the special forces operators and law enforcement who shoot/train with firearms that don't meet batfe specs on barrel length for long guns are "Little boys"?

Please define what the "responsible end of the firearms ownership spectrum" is exactly? I'd like to hear who you think the second amendment is for?

And please do tell what barrel length on firearms has to do with anything pertinent, other than velocity?

The Sig brace wasn't the problem. It was all the idiots writing the ATF asking if it was ok to own one so they could get a letter of approval which was meaningless as they were already legal. All they did was bring to the attention of the ATF the amount of people using them as a stock. Look what that got you.

I stopped the SOCOM/LE/2A bus. Get yourself unwound from the axle...

This has NOTHING to do with barrel length and EVERYTHING to do with an AR pistol. There's a big difference between an SBR (any barrel length) and an AR pistol. The latter being the most asinine configuration for AR-15 you could waste money on. AR pistols and barrels less than 10 inches long for that matter are "Field of Dreams" marketing. They aren't built and sold because they work, they're built and sold because idiots will pay good money for them.

This is also about the BATFE banning a certain type of ammunition because its illegal to fire armor piercing ammunition through a pistol. This is about pistol retards getting they're pistol and everybody else getting bent over the barrel. Lots of moving parts here.

I read this yesterday and today I went to the local Cabela's and cleaned out all the M855 200rd battle packs. My middle finger to ATF.

ATF just opening up another Black Market Product and raising the price of affordable Ammo

Yeah, I agree, pistol Ar's are lame and I have none, but you're directing your anger at American citizens who have a right to buy and own firearms (regardless of your personal proclivities to guns) instead of where that anger should be directed, the batf.

Your reaction is all too typical of the "responsible end of the firearms ownership spectrum..", fall for the divide and conquer strategy and blame the victim for the crimes of the sinner.

I know a bunch of Bullseye shooters who think your full stocked atf approved( at least for now) "black guns" are ruining it for them and should be restricted, just so long as their sacred .22lr target pistols are left alone. You throw one gun owner off the wagon you might as well jump off yourself.

talk about retards...if it is already illegal to shoot AP ammo in a pistol, how does it help to ban the ammo too? ban pistols next?

I do not have an AR pistol, but I am willing to fight for the rights of those that do. they are no different than the Remington XP100 in .223 for the purpose of this discussion, as it is a pistol capable of firing M855. shall we throw them under the bus, too?

Yep, just like Thompson Contender, XP-100, and all those others.

Another thread about this:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/9605077/2

Have you actually tried running an AR pistol like an SBR? There's not that much difference.

Except the part there the ATF has now declared this illegal unless you first register it as an SBR.

I am ignorant on this subject? Won't M193 out of either a 10 inch or 16 inch barrel do the same thing? Go through a vest etc?

Yes, but that's not how Congress defined armor piercing ammo.

gotcha, I wondered because shooting a 1/2 mild steel plate the SS109 and the M193 could not be told apart from their impact. I don't have a 223 caliber pistol anyway.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=37785

Statement on Signing the Bill To Regulate Armor-Piercing Ammunition
August 28, 1986

It is a pleasure to be able to sign into law H.R. 3132 to ban the production or importation of the so-called cop-killer bullets, which pose an unreasonable threat to law enforcement officers who use soft body armor. This bill, similar to legislation jointly submitted to the Congress by the Departments of Justice and the Treasury in 1984, recognizes that certain forms of ammunition have no legitimate sporting, recreational, or self-defense use and thus should be prohibited. Such action is long overdue.

During the 61/2 years that I have served as President, I have sought to strengthen law enforcement in this nation and to do everything possible to protect the lives and safety of the dedicated men and women who constitute our first line of defense against the forces of lawlessness. I am pleased, therefore, to sign H.R. 3132 to ban armor-piercing ammunition as this legislation has long had the strong endorsement of our outstanding law enforcement organizations, including the International Association of Chiefs of Police, National Sheriffs Association, Fraternal Order of Police, International Brotherhood of Police Officers, Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association, National Association of Police Organizations, National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives, National Black Police Association, National Troopers Coalition, International Union of Police Associations, Police Executive Research Forum, Police Foundation, Police Management Associations, and the Major City Chiefs.

In signing this bill, I want to urge those States and localities that have not acquired body armor for their law enforcement officers to obtain such lifesaving equipment for their officers. The use of soft body armor is credited with saving the lives of more than 600 officers since it was first introduced in the 1970's. An even more important message is the one I have for law enforcement officers: If you have access to soft body armor, please use it. Your lives and safety are too important to risk needlessly. The fabric used in modern soft body armor is truly a miracle fiber, but it is useless if left in the dressing room locker or the trunk of a squad car.

In signing H.R. 3132, I am giving our law enforcement officers my pledge to do everything possible to eliminate the hazard posed by armor-piercing ammunition. Those officers who in the past may have used the threat of armor-piercing bullets as a justification for failing to wear soft body armor should no longer have that excuse. We are doing our best at the Federal level to enhance the safety of police officers but must have the cooperation of the officers themselves to secure the full benefits of this important legislative action.

Note: H.R. $132, approved August 28, was assigned Public Law No. 99-408.
Citation: Ronald Reagan: "Statement on Signing the Bill To Regulate Armor-Piercing Ammunition ," August 28, 1986. Online by Gerhard Peters and John T. Woolley, The American Presidency Project. http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=37785.