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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
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I grew up shooting traditional blackpowder...and want nothing to do with it now. As you stated, we are free to make out own choices...mine rests solely on two more weeks in the woods.
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Joined: Feb 2008
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Campfire Outfitter
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Traditional muzzleloaders are a thing of the past. they will always be simply by definition if nothing else. part of that is an allure to some, to others it's merely a reminder of where we came from. either way the sport needs to be preserved, regardless of the reasoning. i have both traditional and inlines, and yes the inlines get way more use. but the line dividing the two is mighty thin in reality.
Beware of any old man in a profession where one usually dies young.
Calm seas don't make sailors.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,099 |
I disagree on the point of thin reality. I've yet to run across an inline that makes me smile.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Campfire Tracker
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Sidelocks, PRB's and dirty hands make me smile.
There is no way to coexist no matter how many bumper stickers there are on Subaru bumpers!
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Since the inception of muzzleloading seasons, hunters have been divided between those who want to do more hunting and do it as efficiently as possible and those hunters who enjoy the historical connection that blackpowder brings. I personally love traditional muzzleloaders. Inlines leave me cold. However, barring another phenomena like "Davy Crockett" or "Jeremiah Johnson" that reawakens historical awareness, I see interest continuing to wane because younger generations simply learn so little early- American history. Perhaps this best sums up the situation!: CVA Commercial
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Sidelocks, PRB's and dirty hands make me smile. Increased limitations do not make me smile. What makes me smile is harvesting a deer with my roundball gun and the limitations that were included. Traditional guns are a wonderful thing to include in your gun safes. But advanced technology can park an untrusted gun in bad weather, with a more weather resistant trusted gun.
Last edited by Triple_Se7en; 02/22/15.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2014
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When I see an in-line, I think "felon"
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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I could have done without seeing that video.
Of that there is no doubt .
Wouldn’t he rather have pulled out a 300 H&H or something anyway . seriously , out starving in the mountians and he comes up with an inline . But surly old jack had all the jacketed bullets , sabots , 209 primers as well as needed toolsall back in his packs on ther horse that froze to the tree behind him .
it’s the way it is centershot because comparatively , muzzle loading hunter numbers , here , are very small . Our seasons have for the most part been based around short range weapon areas or units that could have or needed small numbers removed so as to keep the unit from converting to depredation.
If we add into that ,
*management for money vs. management for game populations and herd health.
* political influences
*Continued rise in cost of licenses and tags
* Concerning modern muzzle loading , the complete contradictions concerning capabilities , even among their own supporters. IE ., on the net they out do traditional designs in every way . But make a claim as to that while standing in front of the commission and its all lies .
There really is a lot to it . Speaking for myself , I don’t care if I shoot a buck ore doe , cow or bull . Frankly I don’t care how big the horns are either. If I come across a large bull or buck fantastic . But im not turning down the meat either . So if it’s a small rag horn or spike , so be it .
There however are a lot of folks that dont see it that way . So you have those wanting trophy hunting, to the point of going to a lottery system like many other states and doing away with the general hunt to get it . You have those who are against hair tags . While I understand the whole buck /doe ratio principle, frankly culling is culling , no mater in a cow herd or a deer herd .
Myself I believe that eventually the commission will cave in and release the restrictions on modern muzzle loading. In doing so they will again reduce the number of available hunts for muzzleloading again and eventually do away with the season all together .Turning the managment of those hunts back to draw / restricted hunts .
I think we will see archery go the same way . It will take longer , but it will happen .Not before our general season goes to a lottery system or complete permit only hunts though . I say that becouse esch year i see the archers becoming more and more devided . I have even heard more modern artchers saying that things are starting to go to far .
So we are not alone in our confusion . look around and its not hard to see .
*Centerfire and special season like Archery and muzzle loading
*Fly fishermen and live bait anglers
* The everyday common fisherman and sport fishing
*4X4 and ATV/quads
*Hikers and mountain bikes
* Jet boats and rafters
The list goes on and on
As to more time in the woods .
That ship don’t float here . We are only aloud 1 tag per year for each species . Possibly 2 if your in a depredation draw. You don’t get another tag to bow hunt and another to muzzle load and another for center fire . You just get that one tag and when you fill it your done . So the only way your going to get more time in the woods is
a) Don’t shoot anything until the last day of the last hunt of the last special weapons season or fill your tag in September and then hunt upland game birds tell the end of December .
b) hunt predators like coyotes which is open year around
c) take advantage of the fact that you can carry any weapon you want , in the woods , any time you like .
No need for a modern inline , carry what ever you like . IE take that AR , AK …..
No need for a license , no need for a tag .Hike , camp , explore all you like. Just don’t get caught killing anything without a hunting license.
But then again it maybe different where you live , out here we for the most part still have some semblance of freedoms left
when it comes to kids not being tought history, yep agreeded 100% . thats why its so very important that we teach them history not some modern verssion of it .
while i dont see as many small kids at the events as we once did . I am seeing growing numbers of those in thier 30-40 .
Last edited by captchee; 02/22/15.
![[Linked Image]](http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/fega20small_zps0913cc7b.jpg)
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
captchee;
Well said, and I agree.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 9,096
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 9,096 |
That 30-40 age group is the one I concentrate on recruiting into our muzzle loading / rendezvous clubs.
Younger men are too busy establishing their careers and starting their families to have time for hobbies. Teenagers can't drive to events or still need adult supervision. The elder group doesn't bring their children because they are grown.
The 30-40 age group have children who are old enough to attend with their parents. These kids will learn to enjoy the hobby and return to it again when they are older. The best way I can see to keep the interest alive.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Edmund Burke 1795
"Give me liberty or give me death"
Patrick Henry 1775
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,755
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,755 |
Here in the East, things are somewhat different. Whitetails are under siege pretty much from September until January and there are still too many almost everywhere. Access to hunting ground in areas with lots of deer and people is limited, so the automobile becomes a major control factor, along with depredation hunts by government snipers using night vision and silencers. There are some token special hunts, mostly for archers, in suburban parks, but there's a lot of friction between the hunters, government killers, and the Bambi huggers. In one local park in Virginia, the archers were warned off some good areas by the snipers, completely without authority. It wasn't according to the rules, but who's going to argue with cops?
Permission to hunt on private land is difficult to get almost everywhere, and public land gets very busy, at least early in the season, and of course the deer quickly migrate to nearby private land.
Everybody's got different problems and circumstances to deal with. I'm just glad that for the most part at least we get to use whatever we want to hunt with, once we find a place to do it.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,404
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2006
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Pappy, Sounds 'zackly like here.
Ct. finally passed the "lesser weapons" deal which allows muzzleloaders in regular shotgun/rifle season.
Unfortunately , I hunt a shotgun only "controlled hunt" watershed area near my house. Being it's owned by the water company, they set the rules and muzzleloaders aren't allowed. (they also have about 5k acres set aside for bow only that I use.)
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,728
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,728 |
I could have done without seeing that video.
Of that there is no doubt .
Wouldn’t he rather have pulled out a 300 H&H or something anyway . seriously , out starving in the mountians and he comes up with an inline . But surly old jack had all the jacketed bullets , sabots , 209 primers as well as needed toolsall back in his packs on ther horse that froze to the tree behind him .
it’s the way it is centershot because comparatively , muzzle loading hunter numbers , here , are very small . Our seasons have for the most part been based around short range weapon areas or units that could have or needed small numbers removed so as to keep the unit from converting to depredation.
If we add into that ,
*management for money vs. management for game populations and herd health.
* political influences
*Continued rise in cost of licenses and tags
* Concerning modern muzzle loading , the complete contradictions concerning capabilities , even among their own supporters. IE ., on the net they out do traditional designs in every way . But make a claim as to that while standing in front of the commission and its all lies .
There really is a lot to it . Speaking for myself , I don’t care if I shoot a buck ore doe , cow or bull . Frankly I don’t care how big the horns are either. If I come across a large bull or buck fantastic . But im not turning down the meat either . So if it’s a small rag horn or spike , so be it .
There however are a lot of folks that dont see it that way . So you have those wanting trophy hunting, to the point of going to a lottery system like many other states and doing away with the general hunt to get it . You have those who are against hair tags . While I understand the whole buck /doe ratio principle, frankly culling is culling , no mater in a cow herd or a deer herd .
Myself I believe that eventually the commission will cave in and release the restrictions on modern muzzle loading. In doing so they will again reduce the number of available hunts for muzzleloading again and eventually do away with the season all together .Turning the managment of those hunts back to draw / restricted hunts .
I think we will see archery go the same way . It will take longer , but it will happen .Not before our general season goes to a lottery system or complete permit only hunts though . I say that becouse esch year i see the archers becoming more and more devided . I have even heard more modern artchers saying that things are starting to go to far .
So we are not alone in our confusion . look around and its not hard to see .
*Centerfire and special season like Archery and muzzle loading
*Fly fishermen and live bait anglers
* The everyday common fisherman and sport fishing
*4X4 and ATV/quads
*Hikers and mountain bikes
* Jet boats and rafters
The list goes on and on
As to more time in the woods .
That ship don’t float here . We are only aloud 1 tag per year for each species . Possibly 2 if your in a depredation draw. You don’t get another tag to bow hunt and another to muzzle load and another for center fire . You just get that one tag and when you fill it your done . So the only way your going to get more time in the woods is
a) Don’t shoot anything until the last day of the last hunt of the last special weapons season or fill your tag in September and then hunt upland game birds tell the end of December .
b) hunt predators like coyotes which is open year around
c) take advantage of the fact that you can carry any weapon you want , in the woods , any time you like .
No need for a modern inline , carry what ever you like . IE take that AR , AK …..
No need for a license , no need for a tag .Hike , camp , explore all you like. Just don’t get caught killing anything without a hunting license.
But then again it maybe different where you live , out here we for the most part still have some semblance of freedoms left
when it comes to kids not being tought history, yep agreeded 100% . thats why its so very important that we teach them history not some modern verssion of it .
while i dont see as many small kids at the events as we once did . I am seeing growing numbers of those in thier 30-40 . I'm in agreement with most of your thoughts. What I see is a bunch of little specialized 2 week hunts, which sucks because like you said you only get one tag anyway. Or buy another non-res. tag for $300, which i think is the F&G's underlying goal anyway. They know the herds are healthy and selling an extra tag gets them an extra $300. Most people don't kill one deer let alone 2. I find the current trend toward unlimited controlled hunts a very poor way to manage game and people. All it does is limit opportunity, which makes people mad and they quit hunting all together. This is exactly where archery, muzzleloader and short range weapons should be filling the gaps. Reduced take should equal longer seasons and more opportunity - unfortunately the Idaho Fish and Game is doing exactly the opposite.
A true sportsman counts his achievements in proportion to the effort involved and fairness of the sport. - S. Pope
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612 |
We have it pretty lucky here...Muzzleloader is two weeks in October/November, Rifle is two weeks in November/December, and Antlerless Rifle is a week in December, so two bucks, three does, for a grand total of a hundred bucks in tags. One hundred twenty five with an annual license. Add archery, and thats another buck and a doe.
I have a Lifetime, so it costs me nothing out of pocket. I will most likely buy a crossbow this year, for more time in the woods.
Last edited by liliysdad; 02/23/15.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,084
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,084 |
The older I get, the more my attitude changes. When I was a "young and comer" I had to have the latest and greatest deer killing machine, killed as many animals as I could get away with, and drove like a maniac to get there. Now I could really care less if I am successful after a day in the woods (in fact I'm often relieved I don't have to bust a gut dealing with a monster buck after it's down), I'm content to dawdle along on the drive there, and the rifle/shotgun I carry has to be aesthetically pleasing more so than super efficient. I see young guys taking to the woods as if they were on a Marine recon mission and can't help but wonder about that which they are missing out on. As I sit in the woods on an Indian Summer day admiring the rifle I built many years ago, I reflect on the hundreds of hours I spent building it and feel a direct connection to my ancestor who roamed the woods of Pennsylvania with the family heirloom long rifle I copied it from. For me there is definitely a higher plane of experience regarding the whole muzzle loading deal than just "getting a few more days afield" and utilizing the the most up to date technology. But that's me. (And yes, anyone who shies away from Holy Black and sidelock ignition due to the "mess" involved is either a wuss or never gave it a fair shake. That's my biased opinion and I'm sticking to it!  )
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,728
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,728 |
I hear that, I'm 47 and in the best shape of my life. I love to wander the mountains. I get a kick out of out-walking guys half my age - but the goal is to see what I can see. Wanderlust it believe it's called. I've been a bowhunter for 30 years and fairly successful. I've always said give a successful bowhunter a rifle and its only a matter of time. Killing a mule deer or elk with a high power rifle is not difficult. Killing a trophy is extremely difficult and nearly impossible on public lands due to the minimal number of truly big animals - so killing a nice buck with a limited range weapon adds challenge and keeps meat in the freezer and still comes with a nice feeling of satisfaction. I had a miss fire on an antelope a few years ago - would have been a slam dunk with about any other weapon, but I just smiled and moved on. Knowing that just because you get the shot, you may not get the critter adds to the fun.
A true sportsman counts his achievements in proportion to the effort involved and fairness of the sport. - S. Pope
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
The older I get, the more my attitude changes. When I was a "young and comer" I had to have the latest and greatest deer killing machine, killed as many animals as I could get away with, and drove like a maniac to get there. Now I could really care less if I am successful after a day in the woods (in fact I'm often relieved I don't have to bust a gut dealing with a monster buck after it's down), I'm content to dawdle along on the drive there, and the rifle/shotgun I carry has to be aesthetically pleasing more so than super efficient. I see young guys taking to the woods as if they were on a Marine recon mission and can't help but wonder about that which they are missing out on. As I sit in the woods on an Indian Summer day admiring the rifle I built many years ago, I reflect on the hundreds of hours I spent building it and feel a direct connection to my ancestor who roamed the woods of Pennsylvania with the family heirloom long rifle I copied it from. For me there is definitely a higher plane of experience regarding the whole muzzle loading deal than just "getting a few more days afield" and utilizing the the most up to date technology. But that's me. (And yes, anyone who shies away from Holy Black and sidelock ignition due to the "mess" involved is either a wuss or never gave it a fair shake. That's my biased opinion and I'm sticking to it! ) Well said. With a little age comes much wisdom.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
I hear that, I'm 47 and in the best shape of my life. I love to wander the mountains. I get a kick out of out-walking guys half my age - but the goal is to see what I can see. Wanderlust it believe it's called. I've been a bowhunter for 30 years and fairly successful. I've always said give a successful bowhunter a rifle and its only a matter of time. Killing a mule deer or elk with a high power rifle is not difficult. Killing a trophy is extremely difficult and nearly impossible on public lands due to the minimal number of truly big animals - so killing a nice buck with a limited range weapon adds challenge and keeps meat in the freezer and still comes with a nice feeling of satisfaction. I had a miss fire on an antelope a few years ago - would have been a slam dunk with about any other weapon, but I just smiled and moved on. Knowing that just because you get the shot, you may not get the critter adds to the fun. Yep. Getting to "there" (where you are) is most of the fun, and something many don't ever cotton to.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,624
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,624 |
The older I get, the more my attitude changes. When I was a "young and comer" I had to have the latest and greatest deer killing machine, killed as many animals as I could get away with, and drove like a maniac to get there. Now I could really care less if I am successful after a day in the woods (in fact I'm often relieved I don't have to bust a gut dealing with a monster buck after it's down), I'm content to dawdle along on the drive there, and the rifle/shotgun I carry has to be aesthetically pleasing more so than super efficient. I see young guys taking to the woods as if they were on a Marine recon mission and can't help but wonder about that which they are missing out on. As I sit in the woods on an Indian Summer day admiring the rifle I built many years ago, I reflect on the hundreds of hours I spent building it and feel a direct connection to my ancestor who roamed the woods of Pennsylvania with the family heirloom long rifle I copied it from. For me there is definitely a higher plane of experience regarding the whole muzzle loading deal than just "getting a few more days afield" and utilizing the the most up to date technology. But that's me. (And yes, anyone who shies away from Holy Black and sidelock ignition due to the "mess" involved is either a wuss or never gave it a fair shake. That's my biased opinion and I'm sticking to it! ) very well said
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,755
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,755 |
The notion that traditional guns are hard to take care of IS nonsense. Everybody has a favorite method, but I've found that Ballistol, diluted and straight, does the job with minimal fuss and bother.
My inline, which so far has only been fed BH209, is a pain to take apart for thorough cleaning. Fortunately, I can fire it a lot before it needs it. Break actions are apparently simpler, but I just don't care for the way they look.
What fresh Hell is this?
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