Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Rimfires Accuracy Qustions - What to Expect

I've been shooting/reloading most of my 62 years, and have only used .22 RF' s as plinkers or small game hunting rifles. My wife and I have a pair of Ruger 77/22's which we recently put pretty good scopes on(Nikon Prostaff 3-9).When I was zeroing the rifles at 100 yards,we were getting 3 shot groups running between 1 1/8 and 1 1/2 inches.This as with ammo onhand(Fed.copperclad hp),other brands may or may not improve the groups.So----- Should I be pleased with this performance or not? Thanks, memtb

Ammo makes a big difference. Shoot 5 shot groups at 50y. You will probably find your guns under .5" with good ammo. Possibly better. The accuracy you are describing with garden variety ammo indicates a likely accurate gun by most .22 standards.

77/22 are not famous for thier accurcy don't get me wrong I like them . to me if a gun with proper ammo is not 1/2 in. its leaving my house

Idholton,What is the the range that you expect your .5" groups? Are those groups a reasonable quest at 100yds with standard ammo? I hope not,cause I think that I may be a little disappointed! memtb

Some good advice a knowledgeable friend once gave me follows. If you are wondering how good your .22 is, invest in some good target ammo, perhaps a box of two different brands. If it is a good gun, it should shoot well with that ammo, or at least one of them. If it shoots well with that, then it is worthwhile to try other brands and types of cheaper ammo to determine what affordable ammo it likes. That advice made good sense to me.

I don't know enough of the statistics to say what you should shoot. I like to shoot five 10-shot groups at 50 yards in good conditions. You have to be aware of the wind with .22LR, even at 50 yards. You also need to be really careful to avoid parallax, either with head position, or better yet, a scope that can adjust it out. If your groups are uniform and relatively large, the rifle doesn't like that ammo. If your groups are small with a few that "expand" the group, say 2/10 shots, that may be attributed to ammo inconsistency. You likely won't have many flyers at all with the good target ammo.

Five 10-shot groups is pretty tough sledding. I'd bet a lot of claimed '1/2" rifles' won't hold that average under those criteria, even with good ammo, but I could be wrong. I expect some of the super target guns will hold up.

The guys that really understand what is going on don't use group size, but rather "Average to Center"(ATC). It is more trouble, but if you read up on it, it makes a lot of sense.

IF that same size group could be achieved with 5 shots consistently at 100 yrds i sure would be pleased. 22 lr shooting at 100 yrds is not an easy task. i have (2) M77/22's and really like them but i'm not expecting 1" groups at 100 yrds. as long as mine will keep everything under 3/4" at 50 yrds i am happy, but that's just me.

Thanks guys, I was actually pleased with the group's, but was curious what a much more experienced 22RF shooter would expect! Again, thanks for all of the feedback. memtb

I always judge a .22 LR's capability when shooting a couple of different varieties of middle or higher grade Eley and RWS ammo. You just can't maximize the accuracy potential of any firearms without consistent ammo.

I have bought more than a couple of accurate rifles that their previous owners couldn't get to shoot because they refused to try more than a couple different styles of quality ammo.

Average under .5" for 5 shots @ 50y using good ammo and you have a solid .22 Sporter. My sporters probably average about .35" @ 50y with fancy ammo. They will not do this with any bulk type ammo.

I will only reiterate what many have already said but the groups that you are getting at 100yds with that ammo (not saying that this is "bad" ammo, but others typically group better) are pretty darn good. A .22LR bullet can be moved pretty good with a minor (10mph) wind and significantly with wind speed exceeding that. If I can keep around an 1" with a good rifle/scope/ammo at 100yds I am happy. If all conditions are "perfect" I can get some really good groups at 100.

Try the different ammo (of the type you will be using in your applications) and see what yours likes at 50yds - then take the best ones to 100ys. If you just want to see what it will do then try all the different types that you can afford and do the same thing.

PennDog

If a butterfly flaps it's wings in the Amazon, it can open up .22lr groups @100y. Despite what many will tell you, it is hard to shoot good groups @100y with a lower magnification scope typical to most .22's. I have started shooting my 22's at 100y for practice. Also shoot 17hmr at 100y for same reason.

1 1/2" @ 100 yards is very good accuracy. As stated above most shoot 5 shot groups at 50 yards (more in the .22's wheelhouse) with a .22 to determine potential accuracy. My 77/22 will usually shoot just a bit over 1/2" @ 50 about Nickle sized groups. My Savage Anschutz is usually right at or a bit under 1/2" or dime size groups. Many time there will be 3 or 4 touching with one just out to open up the groups. These groups are all with high velocity hollow points. I have not found any target ammo to try. Wind is the real enemy of shooting good groups with a .22 - the bullet is not very efficient and just a light breeze will kill a good group. Here is a pic of a 5 shot group @ 50 (on a nice day) with Thunderbolts from my Savage-Anschutz. A little better than most groups but gives a good idea of what the rifle and shooter are capable of in real life conditions.

I consider .75" average @ 50 yds with a choice cheap ammo in a sporter to be excellent.

When testing a .22lr, I like to go the range with 6-10 varieties of ammo. The differences can be striking, just have to try em and see.

You should be very pleased with those groups. That is excellent accuracy from a factory sporter and that type of ammo.

See Dan's post. To do better, say around one MOA at 100 yards consistently, requires a target rifle and high grade match ammo. And/or amazing luck.

Paul

Memtb: A few years ago I bought a heavy barrel (24" stainless) Ruger 77/22 V/T (I call them a "V/T" but their actual factory designation is 77/22 VBZ?).
I mounted a Weaver V-16 (4 to 16 power variable with fine cross hairs and fine dot reticle) on it and did a little trigger work on it.
It shoots very well for me.
I did some initial ammo testing for accuracy and tried 4 brands.
The resulting measurements which I will relay here are for 5 shots at 50 yards.
I only tested on CALM days.
Results: .501", .552", .695", .394", .354", .469", .463", .649" and .201"!
That last .201" group was made with the difficult to find (but wonderfully accurate and lethal on small game and Varmints) Winchester 40 grain Super-X hollow-points.
That is what I settled on for all useages.
Be sure and try them out - IF... you can find some.
Best of luck with your 77/22's.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Your groups if repeatable are very good, perhaps not a true "match" rifle but exceptional for a sporting rifle. Normally it is the wind that causes issues at longer range. My experience with 77/22's has been hit and miss, some good others not so good at all. Try different ammo, each 22LR rifle has one that it really likes, could be HV could be SV, target or bulk. One never knows. As a side, I just bought a CZ 452, and was vey pleased to get 1/2" and less at 50 yards. A BSA Martini I owned on a calm day would shoot 1" at 100 yards for 10 shots. Did it several times, but due to wind etc could not repeat it on demand or on any given day. I would be very happy with those groups.

Google "22lr ammo test" and go to the hit on Accurate Reloader site. Cool test using a target rifle @50, 75, and 100y. Approx 50 different brands of ammo at each distance. Really shows ammo preferences and the effect on group size. Also shows,how hard it is to group at 100 in perfect conditions with an uber target rifle.

Yes indeed, but remember that is not your rifle and it will be entirely different. Ammo test are only good for the rifle and shooter doing the test.

When doing your ammo tests be sure to shoot several groups with each type of ammo. It seems to take 5-10 shots for the barrel to get 'accustomed' to each brand of ammo. I think it has to do with different lubes from different manufacturers but I have seen it enough times that I now shoot at least 3) 5 shot groups before I evaluate a new ammo.

Thanks again to all,I was aware that much like handloading for centerfires,different rifles have different preferences for loads.So, if I might summarize all the feedback, I've got a pretty good shooter unless by some rare coincidence,the Fed's that I had on hand just happened to be the"magic bullet" for this rifle! Thanks Again for all of the responses! memtb

I agree with Penn, Mem, I would be elated with the accuracy you are getting at 100 yards. Heck, I'd be happy if some of my old rifles were that accurate at 100 yards. I have Nikon's PROSTAFF 3-9 Rimfire BDC 150 on a couple of 10/22's and couldn't be happier with them. I have even used the BDC to plink steal crows at 200 yards.

http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/b...re/rimfirescope.jpg.html?sort=3&o=11

I'd be curious what the group size would be if you were to shoot 5 or 10 shot groups. 100yds is really stretching the little .22lr out. Still fun to do, but ammo limitations typically start to show after 50.

Here you go. I've posted these before. The rifle is not a modern bolt action whiz-bang, but a replica Winchester 1885 low wall, custom barrel, Unertl 16X scope with external adjustments. Not top of the line ammo, Eley Team, maybe third tier. Real world conditions, off the bench having to adjust for wind and mirage.

The three in a row bulls were at 100, consecutively, 10 shots, center is 3/4". Two just a hair over one MOA, one under. The five shot group at 200 measured 1.4 inches. Unfortunately, no witnesses. Also at 200 was the 10 shot group on the ISSA target with 1.5" center bull. Again, real world, in a match, a fair amount of wind and mirage. Oh yeah, mine was the only .22 at 200 yards. It was a centerfire Schuetzen match and I shot my .22 because it's all I have. Came in fourth, IIRC.

Needless to say, I love this little rifle, and it's my favorite. I can only guess what it would do in a tunnel, but I'd like to see it.

I don't claim to be an expert shot, just a 1939 vintage old fart with aging eyes, along with everything else.

Paul

Those are some great groups. Getting the wind under 5mph around here is nearly impossible. So groups at 50 are even pushing it. It would be fun to try some 100 yarders on a nice day.

I think you have some fine rifles and a good match with off the shelf ammo. Given 22 LR velocities and the effect of even the lightest of breezes, you're doing great. You'd have no trouble in our squirrel fields.

At that range your accuracy is going to be affected more by the wind and conditions than anything with the rifle. Shooting a .22 at distances over 25 yds without windflags and the experience to know what they are telling you, your groups at that range will be wildly inconsistent. Even a slight breeze, with let-ups, switches etc will throw a .22 bullet around more than the accuracy potential of the rifle/ammo combo. Bottom line, I would be happy with that level of performance in the absence of match ammo, match chamber in the barrel and wind flags (you would need about 8-10 flags out at that range to have an idea what the wind is doing between you and the target. An interesting tidbit that won't make much sense but is true, std velocity (sub-sonic) .22 rf ammo will buck the wind better than higher velocity ammo that will start out supersonic and go thru the transition to sub-sonic before getting to the target.

I have always found at distance, SV or subsonic ammo has done better than HV ammo. At 50 yards or less it is much different, depends on what the rifle or pistol likes best. The transition from supersonic to sub sonic really does seem to make a difference with a 22LR.

Thanks again for all of the feedback. The one thing that was really an eye opener was just how long from the shot report to the sound of the round hitting the target back board returned to me. Where I live we do have quite a few very calm days for shooting. This day wasn't perfect, had a very slight breeze from my left shoulder. I will try a get a very calm day, and shoot some extended strings for a better evaluation. Even if it turns out that these groups were a fluke, I think I'm still pleased with the rifles performance! memtb

If you only shoot on calm days you will only learn to shoot well on calm days. The real challenge in rifle shooting be it rimfire at 50-100 yds or centerfire at extended ranges is learning how to dope the wind. Even if you put out some stakes with surveyor's tape will give you some information. Then you can learn how much you need to hold off. I shoot competition at 50 yards and 50 meters and I hold off for most shots, as there is rarely any such thing as a calm day. There is always some air movement and it doesn't take much wind or thermals to move a .22 RF bullet around. Then we also have to deal with mirage. Don't get me started on mirage. If/when you want to go down the road of ultimate rimfire accuracy, be aware, it's a long and frustrating journey and there is much to learn.

But it's fun and satisfying. As with BPCR, to be really successful shooting slow lead bullets, you have to set aside much of what you've learned from shooting modern centerfire rifles. An open mind and a bit of humility can shorten the learning curve.

Shooting .22s at extended ranges is not directly proportional to shorter distances. That means that a one MOA group at, say, 50 yards will not necessarily translate to a minute at 100, let alone 200. A type of ammo that shoots well at 50 may not hold up at longer ranges. You really have to shoot and test at those distances to find out.

Paul

I gotta remember that line, so true , so true.

If you can put 10 shots in 1 1/4" at 100 yards with any kind of constistancy, you are good at reading the wind and mirage, you have a very good rifle and very good ammo.

Depends on the game of the moment, and the gun being used. My old Remington M12 with a sewer pipe bore will group bulk ammo into around 1½-2" at 25 yards- a long haul from my "good" target rifles that'll slop them into 3/8-½" at 50 if I squint, pray, and hold tight- but the fun quotient with the old Remington when it comes to bouncing empty beer cans around the back yard is hands down more than with the "big" guns doing the same thing.