Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors First Pre-64 M70 On the Way

It's a 60 model and has a lot of finish flaking off in patches but is in good shape otherwise.

Can these flakers be made to look ok or at least improved a lot with a few thin applications of Lin-Speed rubbed in slowly?

It's not strictly a real collectible since it has a Pachmayer pad on it, so I'm not concerned about keeping it exactly original.

I just don't want to get involved with the whole complex process of refinishing the whole thing.

Also.....will this rifle fit the current Leupold bases sold for Model 70 Winchesters?

That's a good start. You figure to make us ask what caliber, etc?

Oh, it's a .270.......dunno about etc.

DWG, Welcome, and yes, if the receiver hasn't been altered or redrilled for any reason it will have the .860 hole spacing (front and rear) and that is the same as what is on current Winchesters. For example, in the Dual Dovetail bases, it takes the Leu. #50046 which is the same base an FN S. Carolina model 70 takes.
John

Welcome to the club. You have embarked on a slippery slope my friend, these things are addictive
In my experience trying to do a patch job on a stock finish just doesn't work. In the long run IMHO your better off to just redo the whole thing.

As much as I love pre-64 Model 70s, Winchester did not put a durable finish on the stocks. I once hunted in a sudden 12" wet snow storm and all of the finish came off my Featherweight. It it were mine, I would refinish the stock and never look back.

No short cuts, huh?

Well, I haven't seen it yet, but I'm hoping and wishing for a simple fix. It appears that the finish is the only real problem. Maybe my standards are low enough that the Lin-Speed treatment will suffice. I can always do the full refinish later.

Thanks, John, for the scope base info. I knew that some older Model 70s were tapped differently and was hoping a 1960 model would be fine.

I already ordered a Leupold base, so I'm glad to hear it will fit. I have some Leupold rings around somewhere and a good old Leupold 3X9 scope, so I think I'm good for the time being.

It's been a long slope for me. I wanted one as a kid, even before 1964 had become an issue. After all, it was what it was.

Never got one. Then, in 1965, in Yokosuka, Japan, I went to the Base Exchange and admired a wallfull of display Model 70s that were still the Pre-64 Model and priced at $109.

I never got over NOT buying one, but they quickly got out of my price range.......until now.

DWG, One thing to keep in mind when getting set up with rings and bases if you are using a standard Leupold scope (ie, not one of the compact or ultralight series with the smaller occular) is that while your objective bell may clear the barrel fine with the low rings, you're almost certain to run into problems clearing the bolt on the eyepiece. The bolt throw on these are a little higher than on current production guns and base/ring combinations that worked perfectly on my FN Mod. 70 and a 1980ish pushfeed would not let the bolt clear completely on any of my pre-64s. Had to go to the Med. Dual Dovetail rings. It wasn't that the bolt wouldn't function, but was dragging along the eyepiece scarring the scope finish and the bolt handle. Good luck, and again, welcome. While I'm fairly new to pre-64s (this time last year- didn't have any- now have 3) the Winchesters Collectors forum has been a true wealth of information about them. Guys like GSPfan, bsa1917, poconojack, winchesterpoor and quite a few others are very well versed in them and are more than willing to help out.
John

Thanks, John.

I think I have the medium rings.

I almost passed on the gun. They didn't tell me that it had been glass bedded. I didn't care for that omission of facts.

I left and then came back and decided to take a chance on it. We'll see.

Since the stock already has a pad added it's not original anyway, so this may not be a big deal. I like the gun.....who knows it may turn out to be great. Testing next week.

I ended up (after a lot of bickering and dickering).......paying about $925 for it. Maybe not such a good deal. It turned out to be a Featherweight, I didn't know that either. It looks good and I think I may be able to improve the finish quite a bit with the Lin-Speed.

We shall see.......that's the way it goes.....this is just more Dancing With Guns!!!

DWG there are no short cuts on the stock finishing. A patch job is a patch job plain and simple.

it doesn't sound bad for a FWT esp a 270 and I'm sure it will be a great hunting rifle.

Medium rings are a must for all the reasons John mentioned. IF your going to use some large objective scope like a 3x9x50 you might need high rings. I put a 6x42x44 on a varmint M70 in 220 Swift and needed the high ones.

DWG, All three of my pre-64s are fwts. While I like the standard rifles just fine, it's hard to beat the handling of the 22", slightly lighter fwts. They tend to raise and point as naturally as any rifle I've ever held. As far as price, I believe you did just fine. That's give or take a couple of bucks what I paid for two of mine and I definitely would not sell them for that. I'll be 60 yrs. old this Nov. and have owned lots of guns thru the years, but these things are in a class by themselves. Also, even if this is the only one you're going to own (unlikely:) I'd strongly suggest getting a copy of "The Rifleman's Rifle" by Roger Rule. Paperback copies are available at Amazon and elsewhere for $90-$100 and worth every penny of it. It's everything and more you'll ever want to know about the guns from a technical standpoint and the COMPLETE history of Mod. 70s. When you get the rifle post us some photos of it, if possible. We never tire of checking them out.
John

You did just fine on that gun!, I agree with the pad added just refinish the whole thing ans seal butt and any wood in barrel channel ,Im willing to bet its a good shooter! very best WinPoor

Damn sounds like a long wait!! I hope you all the best with your new pre 64 model 70. You deserve a good one...

Thanks, guys, for all the info.

I'll get to it next week. Have to hit some estate sales and auctions this weekend, but sometime next week I should have pics.

My scope is a nice 20 year old Leupold 3X9 so it's pretty big, but I do have the medium rings, so we should be in good shape on that.

I have new scopes that I could use, but I think this one will look more appropriate in style for that gun.

Thanks again!

All you need are some low Leupold DD's to go with that 20 year old 3-9x40. Will look awesome and work like a champ.. Mediums will be a little too high for my tastes.. Good luck with it..

Yep the lower the better! I like em so low that 2 hundred dollar bills will just go under the end of the scope and clear barrel. Im not sure I own a scope that is much larger than the 40MM on the obj. end. very best WinPoor

WP after all the guns you been buying you still have 2 $100 bills? :)Now theres the pot calling the kettle black

Winpoor and bsa, how are ya'll getting the DD lows to work with the Leupold standard scopes? I've tried three different standard eyepice Leupolds, a VXII 3-9X40, a 2-7X33, and a 2.5-8X36 on three different fwts. and the bolt handle drags down the eyepiece on all three. The bolt will still function but on the matte scopes especially, it rubs the bluing off in a line across the handle. I would much rather have mine in the lows also but definitely don't want to relieve the bolt handle.
John

I was wondering he same thing. medium is the lowest I have ben able to use.

I agree I need mediums in Dual Dovetails on pre 64 Win 70's with standard Leupold scopes; lows will work with the compacts.

Good questions.

I'm watching intently, since I'm embarrassed to say that this is the first I've heard of the DD concept.

I've been out of the loop for quite a few years.....not so much gun stuff going on and focusing on mostly Rugers that bring their own scope mounts.

I simply ordered a Leupold STD base and I have a couple sets of medium height rings lying around, so I thought I had it whipped.

Now I'm wondering if there are advantages to the DD base that I should be looking at or if maybe I could just as well go with what I have?

The 6x36 will clear low DD's....so will a M8 3x or 4X. I admit it can be a challenge with some scopes but those work fine.

Variables have that stuff on the back end that makes them fatter....

The DD's are stronger,no rear windage screw. I avoid them if I can.

Curiously watching this thread as well. I have Talley Lightweight lows on my Alaskan and Featherweight, both wearing Leupold. Bolt clearance is there BUT not if I put on any type scopecap on the eyepiece. Then it drags.

My problem has been with any Leu. with an occular that is the size that a standard Alumina flip cap will fit. The eyepiece caps only come in two sizes- standard and compact. And no, the flip cap isn't the problem as they aren't even installed. Hasn't mattered if it was variable or not because it's the body of the occular that the bolt drags on, not the power ring.
John

Strange, sounds like my pre 64's are different than yours..

The old leupld 3-9x40 ocular is small compared to the burris FFII, I've been know to use...

These are low DD's:


These are low DD's:


Of course we have the notorious rub mark, but that's no big thing:


I DO run mediums on my cheaper Zeiss Terra's because they have a big ocular and 42mm objective..:


Same same on my classic sporter. Anytime your ocular reaches the size of the Zeiss or you have an objective larger than 40mm, it's wise to use the mediums:

I like steel Talleys in low height. Seems to be enough clearance for both front and rear. My next scope (Leupold 6x42mm) will be on a Cooper in low Talleys.
Bob

Sounds to be like everyone agrees any Leupold ocular that is not a compact will drag the bolt handle on the ocular with Leupold lows rings. The difference is some people are OK with that and some are not. I do know that matte anodizing is hard and just abrasive enough that it will start to mark a bolt in only one or two passes. I don't think having it touch is a good idea if you run the bolt smartly, but since I don' let it happen I don't know for sure. I have used a Leupold 3x9 Compact in Super Low rings, which gives a very low mounting and nothing touches. However, if you use a one piece base you may have to mill or file then touch-up blue the base for clearance of the raised part at the turret. You may not have to do this, but you might. It is so close that they vary individually as to clearing or not.

Gundoc pretty much summed it all up right there. When I'm trying a scope and mount combo, I temporarily mount the bases and bottom half of the rings and lay the scope in them in the position that gives me correct eye relief. I then pull the bolt all the way back slowly in it's highest position to see if it lifts the scope from the rear ring. If it does, it's a no go.
Currently, I'm using a Leu. 3-9X40 in steel Talley lows on one fwt. .308, and same scope in Dual DT with Med. rings on the fwt. 30-06. My favorite set-up however, is a Leu. 3-9X33 compact in Dual DT lows with the rearward extended front base on the other .308 fwt. Even though I usually prefer the larger occular, this set-up is near perfect.
John

Working on those promised pics now.

If I refinish this stock myself it will take a long time.

I think I'd like to buy a synthetic stock of some kind to get and keep the gun up and running.

Good source for such a stock for my rifle?

Finally, PICS!!!

As you can see, nice rifle with no dings, scrapes or damage, just a lot of finish that has come off.

Not too sure what to do with the finish problem, but I like the rifle a LOT.

That's a nice rifle for what you want to do with it. I would completely refinish the stock, a patch job just isn't feasible. Find a front sight hood and your good. If your going to refinish the stock I'd consider replacing the pad with one of the aftermarket Winchester style pads. You can get one from Galazan and I think Pachmeyer has an Old English style pad that will work.

DWG, Very Nice. Check your Private Messages.
John

I'd also refinish the stock since it's had the recoil pad installed. Glass bed it while you are working on it too. Looks like a great rifle. You'll be more than happy with that one. Like someone else said, you can go with a Winchester reproduction recoil pad sold by Galazan or the red pachmayr decelerator pad looks great. Don't know about an old English pad GSP talks of, but the decelerator would by my first choice. Here are a few that have the decelerator:

Thanks much to all for all the info, pics and encouragement. I've come to the conclusion that the stock will have to be a winter project for me (along with a few others that will build up over the summer).

The wood seems thirsty, so I'll rub a little Lin-Speed into it to seal it up for now and get back to it in January. Summer is a time that I get out and buy stuff.

Last night I bought some of the special Winchester Red formula oil off e-Bay and I'd appreciate info (or links) as to strippers and other refinishing details from those who have them.

Thanks again!!!

Zip Strip, Strypeez, Homer Formby's, I have used them all and all work great. Scrape the bubbled up finish off before it redries. Do it a couple of times if necessary. Scrub the gook out of the checkering with a toothbrush and mineral spirits. The stripper will most likely eat the toothbrush bristles so do that last after scraping the stock.

It will look horrible when stripped, whitish, streaky, etc. Wash it down good with mineral spirits, let it sit a day or two, and then get busy wet sanding that WinRest finish in with 1" patches of 320 wet/dry black sandpaper.

Brown or McMillan. Warning is that once that synthetic is on there, you may never use the wood again. I doctored one like that with a Brown precision in the late 80's, and it's still trucking 3 barrels later.

Three barrels later. That's a lot of beer.



I may just be enabling an addictive need for more Model 70s as there is notion flickering around in the back of my mind that after the current one is all refinished and stock and action reunited..... one could acquire yet another with a beat up stock and then have the synthetic to put on it while the other is being prettied up.

In fact......I could start looking for another one now!

No time like the present. I always look for them and some nice ones pop up from time to time. A nice 243FWT and a 270FWT are on their way here.

That's exactly the kind of thinking that fast becomes "just another good idea" when you spend much time on the Win. Forum. I don't think I have much room to talk though. Last fall I didn't have any pre-64s and after a little time on here decided to get one to see what all the buzz was about. Four and a half months later I am the proud owner of 3 '50s fwts. and can feel #4 nipping at my azz. On the up side, they're usually just like money in the bank and if you're reasonably careful you won't get hurt and in a lot of cases can come out ahead down the road. Can't say that about most addictions:)
John

I'm with you john. In 4 months here I have gotten two from here and in the last 8 months 9 total. I'll be looking at a nice 7MM this weekend and then the run will be over.....except for another one possibly from here

Most surely--not the worst addiction.

If you go online to Jack First Guns, you can order a repro rubber buttplate which is indistinguishable from the original. As far as refinishing goes, it's just about essential - the original was just varnish.

I would steel wool the remnants of old finish off, agonizing over what to do with the checkering. The best thing is just plainly to get it recut, but then of course, it isn't original. I prefer to use the FW's as they simply have never been surpassed. The finish? Have never seen anything better than Laurel Mtn Forge permalyn or the Plinkington equivalent. Use sealer to close the wood up, then the topcoat. Be sure the French Red is very dry before sealing.

Best of luck. Use your prize!

Ive used Formby's Refinished on a number of guns including my p64 338. I gently rub it into the finish with fine steel wool, let it soak in to work and the remove with the edge of a cabinet scraper. Checkering is done with an old toothbrush and the Formby's. Once done wipe down with mineral spirits or rubbing alcohol. Then I applied a few coats of Teak Oil letting it harden a day between coats, topped off with 3 coats of tang oil. Side by side with my FWT the has the original finish I see no difference in coloration at all.

Best of luck to you and enjoy your Winnie!

Labarr, actually according to R. Rule's book (p. 150-152), the finish throughout the production run of pre-64s was hand-sprayed lacquer with a carnuba additive. While I agree it looks and chips away just like varnish, the fact that it's lacquer accounts for it's sometimes tenaciousness when stripping it.
John

Pre 64's are just like Pringles. "You can't stop at just one".... However, some guys have it far worse than others.. I'm happy with the boring 4... 270, 30-06, 338 win, and 375 H&H..

BSA,you really need a Westerner.

Does anybody know if Labarr is talking about one with a Winchester logo?

That would be cool. Too good to be true, I suppose.

Yes, Galazan makes a reproduction pad that says "Winchester" on it. Experts can tell it is not original, but it is close. I don't know which one Jack First sells. It may be the Galazan, or it may be another brand.

Thanks much.

That's interesting. They must have to pay Winchester for the use of the name, but it appears there are many who do that now.

I see the Winchester name everywhere.

Believe that Galazan bought the mold and licensing agreement from the individual who originally purchased it from Winchester. Recall reading somewhere that the price was $10,000.00.

Thanks and thanks much to all the replies.

Got the old Leupold on and took it out to the range.

I only had time for the 25 yard sighting today. I had boresighted it and it was almost on. What was immediately apparent with the first few shots was that it wanted to put them all in the same hole.

I made a dot about the size of a ladybug and hit it perfectly with the tenth shot after small windage and elevation adjustments.

Function was perfect and smooth as butter.

I've been rubbing ultra light doses of Lin-speed into the flaking areas and lightly feathering it in with 000 steel wool when dry and the flaking has gotten all but impossible to detect now.

It's a beautiful rifle in every way. I couldn't be happier with it.

I do believe you've got a keeper there.
John