Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Mosin Nagant question

Not sure where to put this so it landed in this forum.

For the standard Mosin Nagant 91/30, there are Izhevsk round and hex receivers and Tula round and hex receivers. What makes one arsenal or receiver shape more desirable than another?

Some of the hex receivers were built prior to 1899, making them antiques, and hence not "firearms".

Remington or Westinghouse?

These were everywhere in varying condition for about $140 to maybe $180 for excellent condition models but the supply ran dry until just now. One dealer just got in a bunch of crates of mixed bag rifles.

There are those four kinds in this lot - Izhevsk and Tula in both round and hex receivers. Price is a bit higher than it has been for Mosins but based on a video of three different crates these look to be in really good shape. You can pick the kind you want with a premium on the Izhevsk hex, Tula round and then Tula hex being the most expensive but it could just be because of the relative scarcity of each kind.

Since I've enjoyed the other three milsurps I've bought I was toying with the idea of getting one of these and just wondered if one was appreciably better than the other.

Tula made over 17 million Nagants, Almost half of the 37 million made.

Tula Nagants are not "scarce".

Condition trumps all on these later batches.

There are so many variations its mind boggling.

I've got a Tula hex that has French, Westinghouse and Remington bolt parts, a Sako barrel, a stock that has a Finn late style forearm spliced to an original 91 style stock, Czar's crest still legible, rear sight marked in Arshins and meters, Winter War capture stamps etc.

Call it a , "Finnish matching".

Bore looks like a sewer pipe, yet it is very accurate with 75 year old ammo.

From what I gather in their ad pricing is based on scarcity relative to each other in this particular batch. Apparently there are fewer Tula hex receivers than Tula round ones, and fewer Izhevsk hex receivers than round ones. In fact they just started advertising this new batch yesterday and they sold out of the Tula hex receivers already.

So the original question still stands. Is there anything about these different kinds that makes one more desirable than the other? I've watched a few youtube videos on the subject - there are dozens if not hundreds - and so far nothing really addresses this.

Thanks - the ones I looked at in gunshows and at Cabelas were very rough, the stocks were all beat up.

This dealer has a video purportedly showing them opening random crates for the first time and the stocks all look to be in very good shape, some almost unissued or probably arsenal refinished. The same dealer has some Swiss K31's which they reported to be among the best they'd ever seen. Based on pics on gunbroker and other places of the beat to hell buttstocks vs. the one I got they seem to be on the level about the condition of their firearms.


I know the Finnish Mosins are head and shoulders above the Russian made rifles and it's not like one would expect the same quality as the Swiss K31 but just wondering what the differences were, if any.

the hex recievers i believe are older than the round ones. I do believe the finns preferred the hex recievers when they were doing their rebuild.
The finn mosin while maybe not pleasing so much to look at as a K31 probably shoots just as good. The finns liked the idea of the rifle, didn't like the way the russians built it. Basically junked the rifle except for the hex reciever.
Try an adjustible front sight, floated good trigger.
I got one a long time ago, and had it out on the desert with me. Took a rod and cleaned the cosmo out of the barrel loaded up with a clip of five rounds of russian military surp, and sitting on my tailgate put five out of five at 100yards offhand into a one gallon folgers plastic coffee can.
Just from memory i think mine has a sako barrel on it too.
it took be a long time to understand and appreciate that mosin design, but it is quite good. Some of them imported from georgia that were rebuilt after WWII and stored in the salt mines were in quite good shape.
I remember some coming from an importer in florida in immaculate shape. Also, look up the M38 and M44, carbine versions shooting the same round. Difference is the finger grooves in one , none in the other, a folding bayonet on one, none on the other. They do push you on your shoulder.

good artice on the finns
http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/finnfaq.asp

Jim, i have had a thing for military firearms for years. I was thinking of one today, the only one i ever refinished. It was a russian capture K98. I was watching that german t.v. program on war as mentioned in another thread and got to thinking about it.
the russians being the pagans they are, dipped them on the metal for a cheap park that is rather crude, then some kind of horse finish applied to the wood, in additon to stamping their own markings on the wood.
Mine had that done to it, but it had "blood rust" around the breech. I just couldn't stand it, so i reblued the metal, cleaned up the stock in the fashion the germans used in 1934, and decided to get rid of the pits from the blood. All the time hoping that poor guy that bled all over it would understand. Put a leather german sling on it, shot it one time, and then put it up. I think the guy that had it was watching me today. For sure it was used in combat on the ost front. If it could only talk.

I never cared for the Mosins, based on their general crudity and simplistic design intended for easy use by illiterate peasants. Then I picked up a SAKO arsenal refurb with an excellent bore and was totally amazed at how accurate it was. That didn't change my general opinion of it and away it went in a horse trade. Everybody should wrestle with one of these beasts at least once, I suppose.

I got over any Mosin-Nagant curiosity in the 1960's, since one was my very first centerfire fire. Purchased a Westinghouse for $10 and "sporterized" it with the help of a friend of my dad's. It shot well with my Lee Loader handloads, but after trading it a few years later as the partial price for something else my experience seemed more than sufficient.

While not really a favorite I do have a Mosin that will shoot pretty darned well. Shooting steel at 600 yards it does quite well....

I have a M38 Mosin. I don't particularly like it, but it is accurate. Does anybody really like them? I'm not sure how you could. On the other hand, they do shoot well and if I were to be dropped off on another planet tomorrow with a case or two of ammunition with no possibility of rescue or any sort of repair facilities beyond the most basic tools, I would probably pick a Mosin as my rifle. It shoots a potent caliber that is pretty much the equivalent of the 30-06. I don't know how one could be broken honestly. It would make a very effective club and with a bayonet, a great six foot long spear. If you can't kill it with a Mosin by shooting it, clubbing it, or stabbing it, you are probably a goner anyway.

It's good to know I can definitely kill the steel plate I'd be shooting at.

Seriously, this is just another in a long series of wild hairs I get and I was trying to determine if the idea was worth pursuing. I have a Yugoslavian M24/47 8x57, a Swede 96 6.5x55 and a beautifully made Swiss K31 7.5x55, all of which I like a lot, but no Mosin Nagant. The reason I didn't buy one when they were cheap and plentiful just a while ago was keeping them supplied. The .312 bore size is a bit odd and not in line with my general stock of projectiles and while surplus ammo is still around it's loaded to full power and I tend to load down these rifles with steel buttplates. Plus, while the Mosin has that certain Slavic charm of being damn near indestructible it would not stand up to comparison with the incredible workmanship of the Swede and Swiss rifles or the classic status and operation of the Yugo M98 clone.

The feeling will probably pass as the current batch is priced at $189.99 with $30 and $40 premiums for the better or perhaps relatively scarcer variations and they just raised those prices from $20 and $30 respectively since last night. But, I can only see prices going up for any firearm so if anyone is interested the dealer is Classic Firearms, https://www.classicfirearms.com/ and the Mosins are shown as the first rifle on their home page.

They have a video of them opening crates of these rifles and from what I could see this batch does look to be in very good shape compared to the beat up specimens I've personally examined.

I have bought a few things from classic in years past, never been disappointed. I think my finn mosin may have come from them, would have to check ther records to be sure.
those really are not bad prices for what i am seeing them open up compared to the beat to death ones at the local cabella's.
At the rhondy at lake roosevelt last month, a member here was pretty much routinely banging a steel gong at something like 350yards with one of those puppies.
They grow on you.
Start looking for a SVT 40 too.

what i haven't tripped across yet is a german K98 with german markings that ended up in israel with israeli markings and converted to 7.62x51, at least at the price i want to pay.

kevin has worked on them from his postings, but i did get into some reimport from israel m1carbines a few years ago. Pretty funky with the star of david on some of them.

HaHaHa, nice.........

That is one really neat rifle

Thanks Bear, it's a Finn. Model 28 or 19. I cannot remember at the moment.

It being a Finn model makes it even cooler.

I’ve got a Mosin, one of those made by Remington in 1917. It’s an interesting rifle that my dad picked out of a pile of rifles in Japan at the end of the WWII. Growing up my brother an I simply referred to it as the “long rifle” which is was compared to the Arisaka 38 and 99 with whom it shared space in the gun cabinet. It was years later that I found out what it really was.

It’s never had a blade on the front sight and in all those years hasn’t been fired. The bore looks really good. I’ll have to see if I can find a photo of it.

Never had one.Just too damn butt ugly.

Sir,

It's a Finnish M28-76, the precursor to the TKIV-85 sniper's rifle.

It does very nicely in competitions.

Josh

The Mosin-Nagant, in most of its forms, is an excellent firearm.

No, it's not refined. It's strong. The Finns demonstrated it can be precise.

The Finnish M39 (their last general-issue Mosin) had to shoot a MAXIMUM of 1.3moa with 200 grain loads in order to be issued.

Get a 91/30 with a decent bore. Regulate the sights for use without the bayonet. (Russian doctrine held that the bayonet was to be affixed at all times unless the rifle was in transport or storage, and the Mosin was therefore sighted with the bayonet affixed. Without the bayonet, the rifle generally shoots high right.)

Add a two-stage trigger, shim or bed the stock, make sure the interrupter works well, and add an HV magazine for good measure.

Handload. Graf's has plenty of 0.311" and 0.312" bullets. Go a bit heavy; the rifle was originally designed for a 212 grain bullet and has a 1:9.5" twist. When the Russians went to light ball (147 grain) they did not change the twist as the degraded precision wasn't deemed deficient enough to warrant it.

I have a 91/30, my working rifle, that is modified to the above specs. With 51.2 grains of H4350 and 174 grain SMK or Hornady Match bullets, it's sub-MOA.

Most Mosins with decent bores will shoot a maximum of 2.5moa after being shimmed, with most considerably less.

There are many design reasons for this. I'll not go into them here as this post is too long already.

Suffice to say, there is a lot of misinformation out there about these rifles. They do what they need to do, and they can do it precisely.

There's a reason they're popular beyond the cheap ammo.

Regards,

Josh

Yeah, I get that. But it's still butt ugly!

If I spend a lot of time building/refining/tuning/working up loads for a rifle it has to have pleasing aesthetics too or I won't mess with it.

"A thing of beauty, and a joy forever" only about half applies to Mosin-Nagants, IMO. (My opinion being worth a bucket of warm spit in many instances!)

And it's all good!

My biggest pet peeve in the gun world is folks who don't like a gun because of false beliefs, and/or those who repeat bad info.

This applies to the Mosin-Nagant, 1911, Carcano, etc. Heck, I've even heard some pretty dumb "information" with regard to the M1 Garand and a host of other proven US rifles.

If you don't like it just because you don't like it, it's personal preference and I'll not say boo to that!

Regards Sir,

Josh

Best regards to you, too. It is indeed all good.

the schmidt was mentioned in this thread so i thought i would throw this on here, side mount st pierre, doesn't require any drilling

another fine mil/surp, the yugoslav 24/47. these are in 8mm and basically new rifles:

"Butt Ugly" ??

I represent that.....

Don,

How's that one shoot???

Josh

I don't really like Mosin Nagants, I like 98 Mausers and Ruger #1s.

But I get most of the attention I get on the internet from modifying Mosin Nagants. A very good gunsmithing author, Harold MacFarland, wrote in the 60s that Mosin Nagants were not worth sporterizing.

This left the topic to scavengers.

I have converted to single shot 45/70, 30-30, and .223.
I have converted to repeater in 7mmRemMag and 300WinMag.
I have put a VZ59 machine gun barrel on one.

I have designed pillars for bedding that look like little Aluminum toilets in front, and like a stack of donuts curving around a Timney trigger in the rear.

I have designed a zillion scope mounts, but concluded that the scuzzy company ATI makes the most cost effective MN scope mount, but I pull the barrel and add a third 10-32 screw.
How much torque? The shallow female thread will strip, the screw will not snap off with so little engagement. The stripping will occur at 16 inch pounds waxed, 28 inch pounds lubed with oil or grease, and 34 inch pounds dry. You should derate by 25 to 50%.

I have designed a Mosin Nagant headspace gauge with an extractor notch and thicker for being backed out a turn plus a rim thickness.

I have tested various triggers. Hubber is worse than useless. Timney is great and adds a safety. Polishing does nothing, despite youtube videos with a hundred thousand views. Suckers! The cheap way out is to bend the sear/trigger spring until there is still full sear engagement, but a 4 pound trigger pull. But if you have a net worth of $10M and no mistress bleeding you, pay for the Timney.







This was inspired by Hooke's law.

Very interesting, ClarkM!

John

I've got a Mosin 91/30 1930 Izhevsk hex receiver model with all matching numbers. I paid I think $70 for it 10 years ago. Got some 174 gr milsurp ammo later for around $.08/pc.

Little over $100 in this whole package. Have shot steel plates full of holes with it.