Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 2 fliers in each 5-shot group

I have a new-to-me rifle that consistently puts 3 out of 5 shots in an inch with the other 2 generally above and to the side, resulting in a 1 1/2 to 2 inch group.

Any idea of where to start?

It could be informative to shoot a ten shot group, letting the barrel cool a couple of minutes between shots. See what the "cloud" looks like.

What gun?
What sights?
What stock?
Is it bedded and free floated?
Are the fliers the last two shots, the first two, or random?

Shots 1,2,3 an inch and shots 4 & 5 outside the group, or are the "fliers" random and are in no particular order?

Fixed it for ya.

Rem 700 in .243, factory synthetic stock, Bushnell 10x Elite scope.

3 different factory loads: Winchester 100gr, Remington 100gr and Hornady (I think 95gr).

Regrettably, I did not note the order of shots.

You didn't answer all of snypers questions. I'd also want to know if you loctited the bases down and what type you used? A cheap factory synthetic stock may be tapping the barrel and changing harmonics and if it is not bedded, it could have an affect on your accuracy. These few things can cause "flyers" very easily...

Here's where I start:

1. Is everything tight?

2. Is that barrel free floated?

The First place I start is with a thorough de-coppering. I seems like such a simple thing, but is cheap.
A 2" group doesn't seem all that bad to ME, considering that you are starting with an untouched (prolly) rifle, and factory ammo.
I am saying nothing of YOUR ability, yet.
"Mapping" the shot pattern will give you a place to look, too. If the pattern is random, you MAY have to look for another load, manufacture and weight.
Are you going to reload at some later date?
Have fun,
Gene

The rear trigger guard screw was quite loose, and the one at the front was only slightly tightened. I just had some trigger work done by my gunsmith and I should have checked to see if the screws were tight before firing it.

The stock is a mess. It is tighter against the barrel on the right side than on the left, it is not free floated (2 pressure pads right at the tip), and I can pull the end of the stock away from the barrel roughly 1/32 to 1/16 inch with only finger pressure. Also, the action is not glass bedded.

Looks like you've identified some opportunities for improvement.

Start with free floating the barrel. That usually produces the greatest improvement for the least work. If that doesn't provide the improvement you are looking for you will need to decide what you want to do about the stock. The low cost solution is to bed it yourself, or you may choose to invest in more rigid stock.

Anyone know the torque figures for attaching the stock to the barreled action? I'm guessing it should be quite tight for the forearm screw and the rear trigger guard screw, but just snug for the forward trigger guard screw.

Torque ranges from 65 inch pounds for an HS Precision, on down.

On faulty bedding, there is no figure. Adding torque may make it worse.

If it was my gun, I do as other posters have suggested, I've free float it. I'd also glass bed it and then concern myself with torque. If it was pillared, I'd go around 45 inch pounds, just bedded, probably 25-30. I'd make sure the action wasn't in a bind, that the box mag didn't bind the action. I'd make sure the trigger didn't touch anything.

Agree with the comments on the scope, expept I never loctite screws, just tighten them, but not "farmer tight". IIRC, around 15-20 inch pounds is recommended.

Let us know what you find as we all learn from such exercises.

DF

I removed the stock screws and discovered the barreled action can be moved back and forth about 1/32 inch in the stock.

I'll free-float the barrel, bed the recoil lug and tang, make sure the screws are all tight and try again!

Shim the stock the way you want it to go then heat it up with a hair dryer from the chamber out, and let it cool. Get it as hot as you can.

Before you do all that take one of those palstic clips used on bread wrappers or a piece of credit card and place between the front of the action at the screw and stock. This would lift the barrel and get it away from the stock. Tighten the action screws down and then shoot it that way.

If it is the last two shots of 5 shot string,the barrel is probably warming up and expanding just enough to have the stock put pressure on it.

Just make sure it isn't too warm a barrel by itself though.

I know a lot of guys that have dianosed their problem like that and then never did anything more other than leaving the plastic shim in there.

Those pressure points are evil. I'd go with the bread bag trick with decent torque on the action screws. I had a similar experience with a VTR, I had to get extra long screws to get it out of the stock far enough so the barrel would not touch, the stock was cast crooked. Bending the stock straight was not a pleasant experience, but I got away with it without doing any visible damage.
By the way, the groups shrunk from 2 inches plus to in the sixes somewhere with the first handload I tried.

I agree with shimming it for some testing

I have a Model 7 6mm that I shimmed, and it shot so well afterwards that I never bothered to take it back apart to bed it

I think it's going to solve all your problems

I cleaned the barrel until it was mirror-bright, just to eliminate one other possible influence on group size.

I dropped in the bread wrapper tag and the barrel is free-floated back to about 1 inch ahead of the action, according to the dollar bill test. However, sliding a business card along the barrel channel still shows the stock closer to the barrel on the right side than on the left.

In addition, the stock is so flexible I can press it against the barrel with just fingertip pressure.

And more importantly - don't I still have to glass bed the recoil lug to prevent fore-and-aft movement?

I'd just drop a shim behind the recoil lug until you get a chance to see if floating the barrel has cured the fliers.

If it has (and I feel like it has) then you can bed the lug and action, and possibly open up the barrel channel on the stock