Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting 303 Brit

I currently do not have a decent No.4. I need to rectify that, I believe.

I used one when I was a kid to hunt deer. It was your typical "Sporterized" rifle. There were so many ordnance stamps on it that it must have been around the world 5x. I never cared for the safety, but it was extremely accurate at 100 yards. I loaned it out and it never came back. I still use a modified military rifle of some type to hunt deer. The only rifles I ever had a problem with when hunting in bad weather were commercial guns. I learned my lesson early. I will stick with the "Rattletraps" to hunt with in foul weather.

Nice to see posts from both Australia and Canada regarding the old .303!

Both the Canadian and ANZAC forces who used the .303 Brit have a lot to be proud of, from both World Wars.

John

John;
Top of the morning to you my cyber friend, I hope all is well in your part of the world.

It's a wee bit cool here this morning for the Okanagan - so much so I lit a fire in the stove to take the chill off whilst perusing the 'Fire.

So with apologies to those who've read this from me before in previous years, we've had the following work very well with SMLE rifles.

Brass longevity is typically an issue with the SMLE as they were cut with generous chambers in most cases. That doesn't mean a lot of the barrels weren't capable of placing bullets close together however - but 2-3 reloads were all one could get from brass until we came up with a better plan.

The brass issue can be solved in many cases by simply starting with virgin brass, opening the neck up with a .338 or .358 tapered expander ball and then sizing it back down with the .303 die - but leaving a secondary shoulder further up the neck.

The object is to have the bolt just so close with some effort on the newly formed case.

Fired with normal loads and then resizing the cases as one would any rimless case results in brass that has been lasting for more than 5 reloads and counting.

The only downside is one needs to keep the brass for each .303 you've got separated, but seeing how rare reloading components are up here nowadays there's most likely enough incentive to do so.

A whole pile of SMLE rifles have been "sporterized" up here and in the process were drilled and tapped by a wide variety of "craftsmen". Sometimes they are so far off that one can't get a modern scope to adjust enough to hit point of aim - but that can be fixed if one is so inclined.

I've modified Parker Hale and Weaver bases - there was another one that mounted into the rear sight base on a No. 4Mk1 too where this worked in the following manner.

We mount the base with the screws in place but loose. Then mount the rings and scope with the scope's horizontal adjustment in the center - so if its 10 turns total adjustment we're 5 in, etc.

We'll pull the bolt and bore sight the unit on a target 35-40 yards away to see how far off the base holes have been drilled. They really, REALLY vary in quality and straightness John.....

So we'll center the base/scope/bore all up so the reticle is pointing where we need it to if we can and if we can't we'll pull the whole thing apart and with a small chainsaw file just elongate the holes on the base in the direction it needs to go.

Once we have the base modified enough so the reticle is centered, a line is scribed on both sides of the base.

At this point I'll coat the mounting screws with release agent, cross hatch or score the bottom face of the mount and degrease it and the rifle action with white gas.

Glue the base onto the action along the scribed lines with bedding epoxy and in 24 hours one can mount the rings/scope combo, go sight the the old warhorse in and then take it hunting.

I'll note before leaving that this modification has been working on a couple rifles for more than 20 seasons here in BC and counting - so I'm pretty confident the epoxy trick works.

Anyway John, hopefully that was useful for someone wanting to get an old SMLE out afield again.

All the best to you this weekend sir.

Dwayne

Dwayne , had to do this very same thing for a friend to get his scope mounted decently on a poorly sporterized P-17 Enfield that had the rear sight removed with a bench grinder. He put a $400 Leupold on it and at the time I wouldn't have given $50 for the rifle. It was his grandpa's and that made it all worth the time and money to him. Still didn't shoot great but after glassing in the action and free floating the barrel it shot fine. Still killing deer in North Dakota for him. Allways enjoy your posts. Magnum Man

Thanks for the tip about elongating the holes and epoxy -- I could have used that when I mounted a scope for a neighbour years ago! Fortunately, the scope had JUST enough adjustment...

John

Back in the early 60's I remember going into the local department store sporting goods department and seeing Enfield Jungle Carbines for $35.00. They were stuffed into cardboard drums and were covered with a thick layer of dried cosmoline.

don't you wish you had purchased them all and stored them until now

I went by and checkout the one in the pawn shop. Enfield 1917 is stamped on it, bore looks great, but the bolt won't completely close for some reason?

$215 is tempting but I'm not sure on the bolt, it like about 1/8" .

Bearcat 74;
Top of the morning to you sir, hopefully this still, cool Sunday morning finds you well.

A quick question for you on the .303 before I begin to "guess without actually seeing"...

Are we talking about a SMLE Mk III you were looking at?

Thanks in advance.

Dwayne

I'm surely not up to snuff on my 303's and their variants, but it looks like this one only without the full lengh stock: http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Enfields/LEE-ENFIELD%20NO.1%20MKIII/LEE-ENFIELD%20NO1%20Mrk%20III.htm

Good to see so many still hunters.

Bearcat74:
Thanks for the clarification sir, I was just making sure we weren't talking about a P14/P17 Enfield is all.

So here's a video of how the bolt comes apart on a SMLE.


If the bolt head is a turn out or too loose, the bolt won't close.

Without having one in front of me and going from a bit of a foggy memory, I'm thinking it shouldn't be the safety restricting the forward movement - but in case it is try to move the safety all the way to the front or off position.

Here's a video of how the bolt should come out on that vintage of SMLE.



Anyway if the bolt head is fully screwed in as it should be, with the bolt out you might be able to see if the ejector on the left inside of the action is blocking the bolt from going all the way forward.

That "should" be a good start to see why the bolt won't close and hopefully was clear enough to be useful.

Good luck with the rifle whichever way you decide sir and all the best to you in the upcoming week.

Dwayne

Thanks for the info, I'll go back and give it a shot. You can open the bolt, pull it back and push it back forward but it takes considerable force. When you close the bolt it will close all the way about stops about 1/8" or so off of fully closing.

Bearcat74;
That is definitely not right as the SMLE was known to be a smooth and fast running bolt action.

If you can remove the bolt it might enable you to see where it's binding or contacting to cause the drag.

They are repairable of course, but it might be a better option to find a more pristine example.

As a by the way, my personal favorite SMLE are either the US built Savage or Canadian built Long Branch No 4 as they had a better rear sight setup and stiffer barrel.

A couple of them that I've played with shot better than they had any right to.

Anyway sir, good luck with your SMLE quest whichever way you decide.

Dwayne

I gave my son my Long Branch No.4 Mk1* as a Christmas gift when he was 11 years old. I paid $80.00 for this rifle back in the early 1990's. It has very highly figured sporter style stocks supposedly done by Elwood Epps in Ontario, Canada. I think something may have been done to the trigger, because the pull really isn't bad on it. It's kind of long, but not heavy, and the break is clean and consistent. I had a local gunsmith fit a thick Limbsaver pad to it before I gave it to my son and with that pad, the felt recoil is about like that of my .250 Savage Ruger M77 Ultralight -basically a flea-bite's worth.

When I gave the rifle to my son, it was about as long as he was tall, but he had no major problems shooting it, and he shot it really well from the get-go, having a few years of shooting a Crickett .22 with aperture sights under his belt.

I know that these things aren't supposed to be match-grade accurate, but this Enfield in my gun room isn't the first one I've shot that shot a whole lot better than conventional wisdom had be believing it should. Before I got mine, a friend bought one and home-bubba gunsmithed it in to a sporter. It would shoot three-shot groups around an inch at 100 yards with no problem when fired from a bench rest. My son's shot really well, too. I'm not much of a bench rest shooter in that I find that kind of shooting to be painfully boring. Once I get a rifle sighted in, I'm pretty much done with the bench and its rest. I like shooting from standing, sitting, kneeling, and prone, and doing that, I don't have much trouble shooting groups under 2 M.O.A. with the Enfield and my fifty year old eyes. It might not win a bench rest match, but where practical accuracy is concerned, it's definitely adequate. I've had commercial sporters that I've shot worse from field positions.

Whoever did the stocking, they must have known what they were doing, because the rifle not only shoots better than most Americans would think a No.4 should, but it has a handling dynamic more like a birdgun than a rifle, in spite of its length. That's what endeared me to it from the get-go and when I bought it, I was immediately thinking "pig gun" and it pretty much was my main ham harvester for 15 years. I never shot a deer with it, but I piled up plenty of California Central Coast swine with the thing.

My son is 16 now. I've offered to buy him a modern rifle many times. He couldn't be less interested. He sincerely believes that his Enfield is the schnitzit. When he goes target shooting with me, he'll do at least as well with that as I do with anything I've got (no bench, no rest -standing, sitting, kneeling, prone). One thing he really enjoys doing is whacking a reactive target ball with the objective being to keep the ball moving. Another is breaking clay pigeons set out on a berm at 125 yards as fast as he can get through a magazine. It amazes me how fast the kid can run that rifle AND accurately hit with it.

He's fond of it for many of the same reasons that I was. He, like I have, would describe the handling dynamics as being more birdgun-like than rifle like. When he pops it to his shoulder, the sight alignment is instant.

A lot of the other things he likes about it are related to ergonomics, too. He can easily manipulate all of the controls -the trigger, the safety, the magazine latch, and even load the magazine, all with thickly-gloved fingers. That's a major big deal to him because our modern gun deer season locally happens when it's pretty friggin' frigid outside.

He can carry it all day long in his hands. It really does carry well because it is so nicely balanced -something I liked about it, too.

He shoots it well. The felt recoil is virtually nothing and one of the benefits of having 25" of barrel is the muzzle blast is that much father away. As high power centerfire rifles go, it is a very pleasant thing to shoot. When we take it out, he can go through 200 rounds with ease.

From his perspective, there's nothing about his No.4 to NOT like. He even thinks it looks cool.

I know he appreciates the history of it, too. Every time we take it out, at some point, he'll set it down and stare at the markings on the left side of the receiver and opine that he wishes that rifle, dated 1943, could talk. How many Canadian boys not much older than him learned to shoot behind it? Did it go to war and what battles did it fight in? When it came back home to Canada, and got a new set of civilian clothes, who bought it's new suit? Did it hunt in Canada, or just punch paper? How did it wind up getting from Canada to California where Dad bought it? Those are things my son wishes his rifle could answer.

My son isn't really all that in to big game hunting. He'll go deer hunting a few days out of the year with me, mostly to humor me, I think. He's shot a couple of deer with it, though. Last year, he shot the biggest deer I've seen in the State of Oklahoma since I moved out here with it. I'm not really happy with the distance he thought it wise to shoot a deer using aperture sights, but he did put the bullet right where it had to go. He likes pig hunting more, and since going with me on my annual California birthday-bash pig hunt for the first time four years ago, he's looked forward to that ever since. He shot two out there with the Enfield and a third with "his" XP-100 pistol in 7mm BR. Quail hunting is the hunting the boy is really enthusiastic over. I don't have to cajole him in going to southeastern New Mexico for a quail hunt with me.

Even though he's a lukewarm big game hunter, he does enjoy shooting the shnitzit out of his Enfield, and he kind of surprised me while we were out pig hunting in California last February when he asked about my Caribou hunting in Canada, and if a U.S. citizen could still hunt in Canada. What prompted the question was that he's got the notion that we should do a moose hunt in Canada as he'd like to shoot one with his old Long Branch Enfield. Apparently, he thinks it might be a little "homesick" or something.

But yeah, I know at least one American kid who hunts with an Enfield every now and then, shoots the shnitzit out of it for fun, and who wouldn't trade it for any other rifle ever made anywhere at any time.

He's pretty fanatical about it, actually.

If, that IS an actual Ellwood Epps conversion, you have a gem. He was an opinionated, rather arrogant old geezer, thot he knew all about guns, etc. but, while he could be a total PITA and often was, he was a very good smith.

His L-E conversions, especially, were very advanced and worked well, he built some fine rifles.

Your reference to cold weather hunting made me chuckle as we always hunted deer in BC in late November into mid-December and it was COLD, sometimes below zero. We liked the L-E because it worked so well in such conditions and we always seemed to get our game with them.

Telecaster,

Would love to see a pic of that rifle if you have one available?

Regards,

Peter

I hunt deer & hogs with mine. I have a Winchester 1895 lever I use with 215gr Woodleighs that shoot through even the biggest nastiest pigs. For more precise work, I picked up this 1916 SMLE :



that shoots like this with my handloads:

Those old Lee Enfields can shoot a lot better than people give them credit for. Mine shoots the 150 gr Speer spitzer and 180 gr Speer RN with IMR 3031 very well.