Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Ruger mini-14... Poor man's AR?

if youve owned one or shot one id liek to hear your experiences with it.... considering adding one to my arsenal or an AR

I've never had good luck with them. Either being accurate or standing up to high round counts. But it's been almost 20 years since I've used one. With today's ARs and prices, I'd get one of those instead.

Considering how inexpensive a good AR is now, there's just no fiscal reason to buy a mini.

If you want to roll up in a cheesy van and jump out and shoot a hundred rounds without hitting anything, then a Mini-14 is for you.

This.

You'll spend far more trying to make a mini something it isn't than you would in buying what you want in the first place.

ahhahahahaa well then.....

ok

Agree that with low cost AR's, they're more performance for the buck than the Mini.

But, the Mini can shine, just takes a few bucks.

DF

Don't bother.

Get an AR.



Travis

And Ive had great luck with them...soon as I figured out to shoot heavy bullets....the 55s threw basketball sized groups. 68s threw mini-groups

Im sure I'll catch hell for this but i found the reliability of functioning better too...


I never put a high round count through one, so i can't speak for that, and the AR has the advantage of being modular if you wear something important out....

I had a pretty decent one 25 years ago, that was MOA with handloads. I was wasn't smart enough to keep it.

I now have the one Dad owned, which is an original 180 series. I'll do a little work to it, and post the results, per the AR Challenge thread.

A Mini or an AR? Unless there are compelling reasons to take the Mini, go AR for the most gun for your money.

Automotive equivalent of a tricked out Mini-14:

Sweeeeeeeeeeeet........

Sorta...

DF

A good AR is the most reliable and most flexible in use rifle I have ever owned. My experience has been consistant since 1966.

mike r

Not as classy as yours, but OK.

DF

I have 2 and an AR, If the mini's where 300-350 bucks go for it. But now days they are just as or more. Go with the AR.

When I got mine they where relatively cheap.

I had one of the original (180 prefix) Mini-14's for years. It was flat out reliable and functional with anything I ever put in it. Accuracy was about on a par with my M-1 Carbine. Prefer my AR's.

Mini 14, the rich mans AR. They now cost more than most AR's do.

I like the mini better than the AR for lots of things, but even a budget AR beats it in accuracy and (unfortunately) reliability. Both of mine had to be sent back to Ruger for function issues.

Life is short, if you think you want one you should buy and try. You can always sell it for a loss if it doesn't work. They are fun and I like the handling better than an AR but you have to live with the quirks. When I bought my second one I told a friend I was doubling down on stupid.

All that being said, I use a mini far more often than an AR. Go figure.

A FEW bucks? LOL.

I"ve often bet that if you got a good stock for it, bedded, tightened everything up, and put a Krieger on it, it could do very well, much like the PITA it takes to get adn keep a top line M1A running.

AR smacks the mini in so many different ways its not even funny.

Bad part is I love the look of an M1a and have some, but at least I saw the nightmare the mini was and never bought one of them.

Haters are gonna hate.

It is always amusing to hear the guys with many thousands of dollars tied up in a tricked out AR, saying it is stupid to spend a couple of bucks on a Mini.

I like my old 188 Series Mini Ranch Rifle a lot. It has proved through the years to be very reliable, reasonably accurate, and fun to shoot.

Reasonably accurate....

Come shoot the 24HC challenge match in the AR forum! You been posting pictures of this gun for years, let's see how it does against a cheap chromed AR15 barrel. 10 shots on two targets at 100 yards averaged.

two to three inches at 100 yards, with a dot sight, rapid fire. I'd call that adequate. I am not a paper puncher like you Jeff.

I would agree with all the above, except to say the new 14's are a lot better than the early ones.
but in reality as much as i like ruger reverse engineering the garand and the carbine into the mini, the a.r. is so much a better deal from a cost/performance,reliability standpoint, it's not even close.
Even the mags you can get now for the mini, ruger didn't like hi cap, are a lot more expensive than for the poodle shooter.

I tried to talk a friend out of one, suggesting the plastic gun, he wanted the ruger cause he thought it looked less threatening. Okay. So he buys a tacticool ruger.

i can remember firing some of the early mini's and the sights falling off.

This

I've had 2. The last one was a Ranch Rifle. Both were inaccurate. I could get better groups with my AK at 100yds. Won't ever own another unless I get one DIRT cheap..

I have only owned one 14, that was enough.. I did go to an AR, seldom shoot it.. But when I do, I can hit something..

Didn't realize anyone was paying attention...

It's the nut behind the trigger that well may be the limiting factor...

You guys would make me look bad...

An ole fart can take just so much humiliation...

DF

No one complimented Mathman and me on our taste in cool rides...

All you guys can talk about is guns...

What's the deal...??

DF

To me, an AR is like a small block Chevy, bolt-on parts. The mini is just what it says, a mini Garand(M14). I just love the way they work. Maybe I'm old school.

When I bring up that subject, all I hear is Old Fart...

DF

To me the attraction of the Mini-14 is the Garand (mini) action. You can have Accuracy Systems Incorporated accurize them to the point where they are as accurate as an AR, but at a price. The box-stock mini's today are a lot more accurate than the older models. I think the current production ones will average 2-3" at 100 yards whereas the earlier ones were about "minute of pie plate".


Jordan

Had a mini. And that's what you will hear most folks say, "had".

Get an AR. They are simply better in all critical ways, can be cheaper, and are infinitely more modifiable.

I pity the fool who didn't think that Van was cool.!

That's who worked on the one I posted. My ranch hands had carried this Ranch Rifle in a pickup for years, shooting coyotes and other pests. When I got it back, it was toast. So, I didn't figure it had worth, had been fully "depreciated" if you will. So, what I spent with Accuracy Systems wasn't added to the cost of a Ranch Rifle. If one adds all that together, the ASI enhanced Ranch Rifle is way too expensive and AR's would be much better values.

I sorta like the way the Mini handles. Although I have some AR's, I've never warmed up to the pistol grip arrangement, to me they feel sorta clunky. The Mini handles, at least for me, more like a conventional rifle. I probably use my AR's more, as they're less bulky and shorter than this rifle, which makes them better truck guns. For shooting at PD's or such, this one would be nice. Just don't have PD's here in LA to shoot.

DF

Thats really not bad accuracy overall. I"m not at all happy with that, but in reality you can do a lot out to 200 easy with 3 inches at 100. As long as its pretty consistent.

The first fix to a Mini's accuracy is to fix the buttplate - if yours is one of the ones with the slick plastic plate. The same ones are found on the original .44 mag carbines, and the 10/22. I've found they slip all over my shoulder during firing, especially on the .44 carbine, which had moderate recoil. I glued some rubber to the plate, which helped a lot, and was a five dollar fix.

My mini is one of the original 180 series, and it's an orphan - nobody has any stocks or parts for them. If you have one of the later models, you can get the Ranch Rifle stock, which have decent rubber plates, or a plethora of aftermarket stocks.

Also note the Mini originally had a 1 in 10" twist, so if you have one, forget about heavy bullets.

I've had a Mini 14 GB Model 182 series for many years. When I do my part, it'll consistently shoot 2" at 100 yards. That is with PMC FMJ, Win. FMJ, and Win. 55 grains PSP. That's close enough for me.

As for spraying-'n-praying 200/300 rounds at a time, I've not done that but it's consistently reliable with 20 round Ruger magazines. I'm not looking to do any "crowd control" nor "zombie" duties with it.

I've killed a couple of coyotes, ground squirrels, jack rabbits with it with no problems.

As they say, "Close enough for government work."

L.W.

^^^ What Blue said!

They are fun to shoot and they are tough as hell, but they aren't accurate. I have one as a HD rifle (so they don't confiscate my AR and I avoid black rifle stigma IF god forbid I have to shoot someone in my home).

The AR is SO much more accurate out of the box it's silly. You can spend $1000+ with Accuracy International to attempt to make it shoot, but you are putting lipstick on a pig. Just get an AR.

I sawed the top half from the factory Mini stock, glued a piece of pine and shaped the stock as you see it. I then did the crinkle finish which worked out pretty well.

ASI did the action job and their proprietary bedding process.

The rest, as they say, is history...

DF

I used both types of rifles in the Marines. I prefer the traditional walnut stock and operation of the M-14 type action. That's why I own the Ruger.

I have two MINI's, one I bought in the '80's a 181 series and it shoot well enough that it's been a favorite rifle for calling. The other is a stainless and collapsible stock. It was given to me and it's only ever had iron sights on it. It too has been used on coyotes. The gas block is often the culprit of poor accuracy.

I also have a couple AR's. One an HBAR and the other an M4, the HBAR is quite accurate, the M4 will keep up the the old Mini. I prefer the mini-14, but used the M4 & M14 in the service. It makes little to no difference to me what's in my hands.

All the Tacticool people make me want to hide the fact that I own an AR.

I have a Colt HBAR Match Target rifle, and even with iron sights, it easily outshoots the Mini 14. I enjoy owning, and using both platforms. Every rifle I own has it's place.

When an AR was selling for $1000 and a new Mini was around $350 that was a true statement

At todays prices an AR is a poor mans Mini-14. The last AR I bought, a PSA, cost me right at $700 OTD. It came with a hard case, two 30 round magazines, a Picatinny rail, telescoping stock, cleaning kit, flash hider and bayonete lug. A Mini-14 with the same accessories would have been well over $1000 and still not shoot as well.

Ha!

My wife's Mini-14 had the rear sight fly apart in the middle of a High Power qualification match. (An entry level match shot specifically to meet the requirements to buy a Garand from the CMP in the old days.)

She was firing next to me in a prone stage when I sensed stuff flying by me. I looked and she was holding the rifle away from her looking at it with a puzzled expression. I thought the rifle had let go until she pointed to where the rear sight should be and asked what to do. I said there are no alibis so just get a good cheek weld and use the front sight. She did okay, all things considered!

It is my belief that the actual problem with that rifle was a bent barrel. It was bought used and the front sling swivel was bent from being forcibly yanked off the rifle. I figure a prior owner tripped over the sling or something and that we were raising the rear sight to where it was almost completely unscrewed in order to overcome the barrel being bent downward.

Accuracy issues aside, what are the common reliability issues? What breaks or fails? I have a newer model with less than 1000 rounds through it. Five and ten round magazines only, no problems so far. What do I have to look forward to.

The new ones are better than the old ones, but they're not the equal of a good AR.

The Mini-14 is not an M14 by a LONG shot.

You have to think of the Mini-14 as a fairly well made sporter, not a military rifle. It will not take the hard abuse of the AR design, and of course the accuracy isn't in the same league as the AR.

But it's a decent rifle that will do most jobs you ask of it. I've never missed anything I aimed at that was the fault of the rifle.

The traditional stock design of the Mini makes the rifle a bit more compact (height wise) than an AR. To me that's the most attractive element of the Mini-14.

But when you consider cost, it just doesn't make sense to buy a Mini 14 these days when the cheaper AR's will out-perform it in just about every category. For the price of a new Mini-14, you can find a Colt AR on sale, and the Colt AR will FAR out-strip the Mini-14.

Back in the day, I bought two Colt lower units from CDNN for $250 each. Still have them. One has an SSK .300 Whisper upper with can, the other a .223 Olympic Arms flat top upper. Both have aftermarket triggers.

DF

The mini was never intended to be a battle rifle.

Are there any AR's out there today that have the same style stock and fore end as the original M16?

While I have no doubt these modern AR's shoot well, to me they look like something out of a mechano set that a kid has put together and I much prefer the look of the original M16..

Pete,

The A2 configuration is as close as you'll get but they don't seem that popular.

It's a design when people thought it was okay to shoot a 4" group at 100 yards that grows as the pencil thin barrel heats up. Now a $350 Ruger American will shoot along with a custom rifle. The public's expectation of rifle accuracy has gotten a little silly and as a result the mini has really been left behind IMO.

They said they were going to "fix" the mini with the new design but it still won't shoot with an AR (even after ASI has worked on it). Frankly if you want a really light gun thats fun to shoot - get an M1 Carbine. Those point great and are a hoot to shoot.

I think you can get the retro style front grip - the tapered one that looks like a Vietnam era M16 - and someone makes one without a assist button as well - I've seen guys put retro AR's together.

Pete,
My agency was one of those who was able to benefit from the military DRMO program. Back in 2004, we got one order of M-16A1's and then one more for a total of about 300 rifles.

Some were packaged in foil bags and the lower receivers marked AR-15 and M-16. These had the triangle handguards and birdcage flash suppressors. All seemed to have forward assist, but had A1 configuration rear sights. They also had 1-12" twists and will only stabilize 55 grain bullets. Some had rubber buttplates and others had trapdoor buttplates which were designed to hold a cleaning kit.

During that time, I was one of three agency armorers, and was tasked with changing out the rear sight to an Ashley same plane rear with ghost ring, removing the auto sear and replacing the selector switch. Effectively, we removed the full auto function and installed a more user friendly rear sight.

My son happened to be out of school that summer and got to spend quite a bit of time with me at work, while we worked on those rifles. He came to like the looks of the M-16A1 and wanted one for his own.

I bought a Rock River Arms lower receiver and began searching the gunshows for parts. Eventually, I was able to piece together a replica M-16 with triangle handguards, trapdoor stock, slick sided upper and 3 prong flash hider. He still claims that rifle.

It shoots 55 grain Federal Trophy Bonded bullets very well at 50 and 100 yards. I wouldn't mind hunting deer with it, but just haven't made the time yet.

Maybe one day he will.

CT

well actually they were, sort of. many were sold to law enforcement, and i know they were sold into south america as select fire versions. I could have bought a select fire mini for about 3k a number of years ago, probably should of, but i was laughing too hard.

Thanks Gent, maybe I am just getting old, but the original M16 just looks "right" to me..

I did see a link to an AR with what looked like wooden furniture and a case hardened receiver; far from being classy it looked like something Saddams sons would have owned!

Regards,

Peter

Not having read any of the posts yet, I'd say the mini-14 is the rich mans play thing. I can buy a decent used AR cheaper than a decent used mini-14. I'd bet the used AR is going to shoot a lot better than the used mini-14. New prices, you've got to be kidding me. Who is paying that much for a mini-14?

Yes sir,
If I'm not mistaken, I think Turnbull did that piece.

Sorta like putting gold detailing on a commode.

But, to each his own.

That's why I bought an M1A.

When a mini runs, it usually ruins well. I had to send an older mini in to ruger for extraction issues. They replaced the bolt and it has been fine. I had to send a new mini in for ejection issues. I believe they replaced the bolt on that one as well and it has been fine.

The firing pins are reputed to be less than durable on the mini 30 when using steel cased ammo, and it is a factory fitted part. I had ruger fit an extra firing pin to my newer mini when it was in for the ejection issues and they did it gratis.

Lots of folks claim ruger QC has been in the toilet for a while. I don't know about that as I have bought a few Rugers lately and the mini has been the only problem I have had.

Just like anything, if you recognize and respect the limitations of the platform you will be happy. If you insist on comparing the bench rest accuracy to an AR, which just happens to be one of the most accurate platforms period, you will be disappointed.

I used mine for a number of years as an actual 'ranch rifle'. The only trouble I had out if it in that role was the rough action destroyed a cheap scope I threw on there that I took off a rifle I traded I to. Mount something a little bit better and it was good to go.

The bottom line is this. If you are not wed to/attracted to the action and ergos of the mini, there is no reason to get one. If you are attracted to and like AR's, there is no reason to get a mini. However, if you like the feel and action of the mini, you will be happy with it as long as your accuracy expectations are in line with reality. It is a great woods bumming/camping gun.

Loosen all the gas block screws, then retighten them evenly in an alternating pattern. That makes them more accurate right from the start.

I still don't think the original was ever intended as a battle rifle. Some police agencies and smaller militaries tried to make it work as a cheaper alternative with less than stellar results.

good summary. In way, they are like some unusual rifle calibers, like say a .308 Norma mag. You probably won't go out of your way to acquire one, but if you run across one at a good price, it's perfectly usable, within its limits.

Pete, I agree.
The A-2 was too heavy and ruined the liveliness of the platform.
The M-4 is too short and the fast twist makes it less devastating. M16-A1 might have been (combat) perfection for the platform.

I've shown this rifle here before, bought 10 yrs ago off a TX State Trooper heading to help out in NO, LA after Katrina. Love it for what it is, and fun to shoot. 181 series (1979), museum pristine, flawless walnut stock, metal buttplate, A2 flash hider. Shoots pretty damn good. Cost me $500. I maybe have $650-700 in it with magazines, VTAC sling, and bug out bag with 300 rds of 5.56.

I can heavily arm a family member, friend, neighbor just by handing them a bag with a carry handle and shoulder sling or pushing it over a fence. Shoots 5.56 just like everybody else's on the planet (and .223) all day long. What's not to like??



Gordon Kahl and murderers of FBI guys in FL knew they had something viable.

To me, if the Mini was more reliable and accurate (on average), and offered at at much more reasonable price, I'd probably have one.

But it would never be a replacement for my ARs.

The deal breaker in my book is the mag release and safety. Don't believe you can train enough to be faster than an AR. Remember, we're talking about it trying to replace a combat weapon.

I do like how they look. That's about it

Mag release and mag lock in is ok but certainly is not as quick as an AR, not that it matters for most uses. The safety is superb and I don't see how it is a barrier to performance in any way.

Don't shoot at coyotes out the drivers side door unless you are ready to buy a new windshield.

I own a Mini-14 that I bought about 20 years ago. It's not very accurate because I've never put any extra money into it. I get 3"-4" groups at 100 yards with an occasional flyer that could be 8" from the center. It's my poor man's excuse for an assault rifle in a SHTF scenario.

I admit that I am M16-phobic because I used one in Southeast Asia and I still have nightmares about that POS jamming at the worst possible time. I will never buy anything that resembles that garbage gun or anything in the AR family.

The Mini-14 will work just fine in a close quarter combat situation where all you do is point and pull the trigger. They are simple, field strippable and more reliable than an M16. FWIW I understand that the new ones are more accurate than my 20 year old version.

When I need something more accurate, I go to a bolt action.

KC

You were issued a Mini will on active duty in the Corps ?????

Think he's referring to the Garand action generally.

Why did you quote me in your captain obvious response?

KC, I hear you, sir.

I think people are reading your posts as saying the Corps issued you a Mini 14

I've not broken a window yet, but I have learned to lean out far enough the brass exits the truck, if possible. Some of the most fun I have ever had with a rifle was right after I got my first mini dialed in and went down to our small farm rock quarry with a case of super cheap PMC M193 ball. Fun times exploding rocks with a 40 round PMI mag.

I have two Mini's and two AR's. I like the Mini's much better for hunting and as a truck gun. Plus I trust the Mini's a lot more.They have been more reliable and easier to manipulate to me.

Up front, I have never gotten over the jamming and poor feeding issues I had with my issue AR's in Vietnam. After using the M-14 for three years I worked as one of the range instructors at Kaneohe getting the Brigade there familiar with the AR's. These were second generation AR's, XM16E2's if memory served and I do not recall any issues with them. As instructors we shot the course first and I actually held the range record for about an hour until the grunts showed us up.

On arriving in Vietnam I was issued an earlier version and some 20 round aluminum magazines. I was in air control so I assume we got the dregs. The ammo we were issued got the weapon filthy and tried to corrode everything without repeated cleanings. They wouldn't pick up the second round unless we loaded 16 or less in the magazines. Ridiculous.
I own a Mini-14 that I bought about in the early 90's. It was OK for the first three rounds but after that groups opened up pretty badly. I had it shortened and a Choate M-14 style front sight/muzzle brake installed. It is glass bedded and has had a trigger job.after that it was much better but still opened to 6-8" in or so when shot ten rounds or so. I then but a barrel strut on it and that cut that down to where I can go a full mag and keep them centered and under 6 in with my 55 grain handloads and 55grain steel cased Wolf.

I bought one of the newer 581 Series SS Ranch rifles a few years ago. It shoots as well as my modified early model and I have done nothing to it.

A brother-in-law, a son-in-law, my oldest son and another young man who might as wel be have all used them in the Marine Corps and like them a lot. I sucked it up and bought one a few years ago. I still have trouble warming to it but it is a tack driver.

One of mine is a RRA Elite Operator and is very accurate but heavy. I usually use it for varminting as it is more accurate than my Hawkeye. It is finicky about ammo and I have taken to using small base dies to improve reliability. I spent quite a bit more for it than either of my Mini's.

The second is new to me and was assembled by a local company called Rogue Defense. It is a lighter weight mid length, key mod rail, RRA trigger and folding Troy BUIS with tritium inserts. The BUIS allow for low scope mounting and I have put some add-on's on it as well. I haven't used it much but I think I may find it useful than the other. It too cost a bunch more than either of my Mini's.

Maybe I should have bought one of the Ruger AR-556's that my boys just got for $600.00 apiece. The triggers are a bit stiff, they lack free float tubes, the triggers are stiff and the front sights don't fold but a guy can change those if he wants.

That's an old wives tale. Ballistics tests have shown that regardless of twist, the bullet will yaw at just about the same point and create the exact wound. Simply going from a 1-12 twist to a 1-7 will not make the bullet more stable in something denser than air. Barrel twist can only make a bullet stable in the air, hit something denser than air and regardless of twist rate, the bullet destabilizes.

I can see that now. Of course "both types" was in reference to an M-14 and an M-16.

I'd say it is a poor excuse for an AR substitute. A sample of one would shoot groups at least double of a standard AR with its pet load. Most loads were about three times larger.

So in summary can we say that the mini is an over priced inaccurate yet well handling and attractive POS?

I would not stand in front of my mini 14 at 500 yards. It is not great accuracy but it will ring a gong at 500 yards.

What are the mechanical and/or functional weak points of the Mini 14? I always hear about their durability and toughness but often wonder if the platform has ever really been put to the test. The AR has been wrung out pretty well in all conditions and circumstances so it's a pretty well known and understood platform. But has the Mini 14 ever really been subjected to an unbiased test where the rubber meets the road? I've owned two Mini's and quit on them because of the terrible trigger and mediocre (at best) accuracy. I don't remember them ever failing to function.

I don't know that I'd go that far. In comparison to the AR, it comes up on the short end. On it's own as a SPORTING rifle, it's really one of, if not the best sporting semi-autos ever built. (and by sporting, I mean built to be a sporting rifle, not as a military rifle)

Generally speaking they've VERY reliable for a sporting semi-auto in comparison to the Remington 7400 or Browning BAR.

And while they're not very accurate, they're certainly sufficiently accurate for most anything you'd ask of it as a truck gun. And yeah, it can fill in as a defensive rifle in a pinch if need be.

I think the thing to like about it is it's conventional stock which gives the rifle an overall height of about 1/3 of an AR, so it tucks into your truck much better than the AR. And the conventional stock is much more comfortable for those who prefer the old school stocks.

I actually like the Mini 14 a lot. But it has gotten way too expensive while the costs of AR's have gone down. If I could pick up a Mini 14 for around $450-ish, I'd get one and be happy with it.

There is one thing on the Mini 14 that is actually MUCH better than the AR, and that's the magazine. Constant curve and steel with a good follower, it's a damn good 5.56 magazine.

Accurate, yes. Consistent, no.

They more than likely will make hits on a silhouette target from 0-300, maybe more. But would they be able to consistently make hits in the same area of the target, I wouldn't bet on it.

Check out nut n fancy on u tube, he does a good comparison.

A guy came by with an older Mini for me to take a look at it and to see "if it needed anything."

I asked how many rounds through it and the guy just laughed, and said, "Hell, I don't know...we shoot the crap out of it....thousands and thousands".

I asked him if he ever had any problems with it..."No!"

I asked him if he ever cleaned it..."No!"

Ok...so I stripped it and cleaned the barrel down to bare metal with JB and and took it to the range with some Win White Box 55gr.

It shot around 8" at 100yds.

I'm thinking that this barrel is toast.

The only other ammo I had with me was a box of my reloads with 69gr Sierra Match HP.

I fired 5 rounds and I couldn't see any new holes in the target, so I walked closer to see what was going on.

Imagine my surprise when I could see those 5 rounds grouped into 3/4" near the center of the black.

What crossed my mind was not how my ammo could be so good,but how Win White Box could be so bad!

Seriously...

Let me change it!

So in summary can we say that the mini is an over priced reliable inaccurate yet well handling and attractive POS

A BAG at least

OTOH I've NEVER had an issue EVER with 20 round AR mags, except eventually feed lips needing a retweaking. At least the AL ones don't rust like the steel ones do.

If you can't find a good follower in an AR mag, you ain't looking very hard.

Yep, but dayom they're cute.

if it was FMJ white box, I can't believe folks still expect accuracy out of FMJ bulk projectiles... generally just won't happen.

I carried one for 25 years. reliable. never missed. didn't shoot paper. when the chips were down it never failed. no double feeds or problems. in the dark it was real handy. had to shoot a man once and I have confidence in few weapons. A older Mini GB is one of them.