Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles RCBS Vs. Redding Die Sets

Finally got my bench this weekend to go along with all the other reloading equipment that's been sitting on my floor.

Anyway, I got everything set-up perfectly and went to load a few rounds for my 300 Win Mag. Everything was going great until I went to seat the bullets. The bullets, all three varieties (Accubonds, Partitions, and Triple Shocks)kept getting stuck before full compression and with very little pressure on the press arm (way before press arm was fully compressed downward. Upon further inspection, it was also jacking the cases (mis-shaped at neck and some crushing.

Certain that I had everything set-up and adjusted just right (screwed-in until it touched the shell holder than adjusted 1/4 turn) with pin 3/16" below surface, I took the RCBS dies back to the store and spoke with the old timer behind the counter. He told me they've recently had a run on bad/problematic dies from RCBS and to switch to Redding. He stated that Redding dies were better anyway.

Are any dies better than the others? RCBS seems to have the sales lead and Reddings are a few more bucks.

Thanks!

I see a couple of red flags here.

This:



reads like the generic sizing die set-up. But this:



reads like a seating die problem, likely the rookie mistake of having the seating die screwed too far into the press and having the crimp shoulder in the die coming into contact with the mouth of the case neck before the bullet is fully seated.

How are you setting up the seating die?

Redding dies are better, but mathman is probably right about it being an adjustment problem.

RCBS dies and RCBS service are better than Redding.

Bet you screwed the seating die way down too far. That die is to crimp the rim into a bullet with a candelure if we want to so crimp. Most of us never do that.

Leave the seating die screwed out some so that it does not touch the mouth of the case. Run the ram up, screw the die in til it touches the mouth and back it off a turn or more.

Call RCBS.

Agree it's likely a set up problem. Redding and RCBS both make good stuff.

Remfak, On your SEATING die, try setting it up as follows:

With the seating die unscrewed all the way and with the seater stem unscrewed all the way out, take an empty case and run it up to the top of the stroke. Slowly screw the seating die in until you can gently feel the die touching the top of the case - this is the crimp on your seating die touching the mouth of the case.

Unscrew the seating die at least 1 full turn to make sure that the crimp isn't touching the mouth of the case while you are seating. Set the lock ring.

Then you can slowly lower the seating stem until you get your bullets seated to the depth that you need.



RCBS makes very good dies. I somewhat prefer Reddings but others like my freind Savage99 have valid reasons for prefering RCBS. I wouldn't worry about it, if you have RCBS dies they will do just fine as will Redding dies. As others have mentioned it just sounds like you have your seating die screwed in too far and the crimp is messing things up. You should almost Never try to seat and crimp in the same step and you probably shouldn't crimp rifle ammo anyway.............................DJ

Had a feeling it was me. The guy at the store made me feel better but I thought it would be a rookie mistake. Live and learn. Shoulda started here before going back to the store!

Off for two antelope hunts this week, starting tomorrow, but will try these recommendations upon my return. I got everything else right, and this will finish it. Can't wait to shoot my first reloads.

Thanks for helping us rookies guys!!

I use alot of Redding & RCBS dies...Lee & Forster too...RCBS makes great dies...excellent C/S...I think Redding dies..overall are a notch above RCBS...never needed Redding C/S...I really like the Forster BR seater...along with the Lee collet and factory crimp die...my die sets may consist of two full sets per caliber...with some of each mfg...

Confirmed the issue.......

Buy good shooting rifles...check!
Buy quality reloading equipment...check!
Finally buy bench...check!
Read directions and set-up de-capping/re-sizing die...check!
Properly measure powder starting on low end...check!
Use good bullets...check
Read directions and set-up seating die...Doh!

Went back and re-read directions for set-up of second die based on feedback here and that is precisely what I screwed up.

Rookie mistake that won't be made again. Bummer is I wanted to use my new Tikka T3 300WM for my hunts this week. Now too late. Will work-up loads for my muley hunt next month.

Thanks again for the help!

Put 75-76grs of RL-22 under any of your 180gr bullets and just about any 300 Win Mag will shoot the combo well.

If you got time to load that combo you can hunt with your Tikka. Good luck!.......................DJ

My favorite dies have always been the Redding Type S dies. They're quite a bit pricier than even the run of the mill Redding dies, but they load really consistant, low TIR ammo for me every time. I use a lot of the Redding Competition bullet seaters as well.

Then my #2 preference for dies is Hornady.

Then RCBS...

Ive only had 1 set of Redding dies and had no problem,90% of my dies are RCBS and 10% are hornady,I guess my preferance is in majority of order,it sounds like the die was not set up proper...............

I've got RCBS, Redding, and Lee. I prefer Redding for their ease of adjustment and outstanding customer service. They've sent me parts for free.

You've been pointed in the right direction for the seating die. Now you'll need to come back when you've got some empties so you can learn how to best set up that sizing die to match the brass to your chamber. That'll be more interesting.

I have all RCBS and Redding. Both make super striaght ammo. I have had 1 problem with Redding. The decapping pin on my 280AI die will not stay in the stem. The rep told me the had a run of Euro pins get mixed in with standard dies. Said they would send me pins but for a fee.I was told to crank the expander ball down with pliers. I asked if the tool marks would [bleep] up my case mouth, and if so would they replace the expander, they said sure for a charge. Over all I think Redding dies are machined a bit better. They both make really good ammo. Reddings customer service sucks. If you are picking up odd balls at a gunshow, then I only buy RCBS unless they are new and unused or are going to be altered. RCBS backs everything with a no questions asked warranty.

Now my dies go to JLC precision and get honed out and worked over to fit my brass, no matter who makes them.

Any wildcats from here on out will get dies from Hornady custom shop.

I use Vickerman in line seaters

"How to set up that sizing die to match the brass to your chamber"! Ok, lets hear it.

I'm at work and it's getting busy, so I'll add to this post in small pieces as I can.

First let's assume, and yes I know what that can get us , that the dimensions of the chamber and sizing die are within the normal range and there are no pathological brass problems. Furthermore since I'm primarily addressing the original poster who is new to the game I'll avoid mentioning measurement tools a real beginner may not yet have on his bench.

The main idea is to size the brass just enough to chamber the way we want while not excessively moving the brass around. We'll be working with brass that has been fired in the same chamber it's headed for now. We'll be full length sizing, but barely enough.

Remove the expander ball assembly from the die. When we're doing the initial adjustments we'll be passing a single piece of brass through the sizing process a number of times. We're trying to get the body and shoulder of the case sized the correct amount and while this is getting ironed out there's no reason to size the neck down and run it over the expander ball a bunch of times.

With the proper shellholder installed in the press ram, lower the handle so the ram is in its highest position. Thread the die into the press until it touches the shellholder, and then back it out a turn.

Clean a case really well with a piece of steel wool, paying particular attention to the neck and shoulder areas. Wipe it down with alcohol and after it dries color the neck and shoulder area with a permanent marker. After the ink dries size the case.

More than likely when you examine the case you'll see the ink disturbed part of the way down the neck while the ink on the shoulder is undisturbed. We're going for getting nearly all of the neck sized without messing up the shoulder. The shoulder is going to get bumped eventually, but not too much.

Just to check, wipe the lube off the case and see if it smoothly chambers in the rifle. At this point it should.

Turn the die in 1/6 turn, re-lube and size the brass. Check out how far down the neck is getting sized. Is it close to all the way? Is the ink on the shoulder being touched by the die? Does the case still chamber without resistance?

As this process is repeated 1/6 turn at a time you'll most likely reach a point where nearly all of the case neck is sized, the die still hasn't disturbed the ink on the shoulder, but when you try to chamber the brass the bolt won't close on the sized case without significant resistance, or maybe it won't close at all. After the extracting the brass from the gun you'll see the chamber has disturbed the ink on the case shoulder.

This is the critical zone. The die has squeezed the body of the brass below the shoulder, and this has caused the length of the case from the head to the shoulder to increase. Yes, increase. Remember when you checked the shoulder ink after sizing it hadn't been disturbed by the die. What we want to do is size the case a little more, just enough to eliminate the chambering difficulty.

Clean and re-ink the case. Screw the die into the press another 1/12 turn and size the case. Has the shoulder ink been disturbed by the die?

Yes: Try the case in the chamber. If it chambers with just a little "feel" upon closing the bolt you're almost done.

No: Turn the die in another 1/12 turn and repeat.

So now you've sized and resized this piece of brass so it chambers with a small bit of resistance when you close the bolt. Sounds good, right? Well almost.

You see, a piece of brass that hasn't been through the die as many times as this one will not size down quite as much in one pass. So the die will probably need to go into the press a little bit more for perfection, say 1/24 turn. Give it that final little adjustment.

Install the expander ball assembly back in the die. Lube a different case, including the inside of the neck, and run it through the sizer. Wipe it off and try it for fit in the rifle. If the bolt closes with little or no resistance you're golden.

This procedure is one of those things that's harder to describe than it is to demonstrate. If someone who knows the ropes was there with you they could have you up and running inside five or ten minutes. Once you learn how your sizing die and rifle chamber interact with your particular lot of brass you can set up the die without having to jump through these hoops again.

mathman

Wow,
I'm going to save that explanation. I have had trouble with RCBS dies to the point that I avoid them like the plague, maybe it's been me all along. I've been dialing it all the way down on the shellholder and then turning it back to the point I can get a dime in between, kind of a semi neck sizing but not as precise as your method.

I sometimes have trouble seating TSX bullets, I think this is why.

Thanks
MArtin

Have used a LOT of RCBS over the years but find myself buying mostly Redding now. The Redding Micrometer Seater dies ROCK.

Never have needed any die makers C/S.....

I set up sizers just about exactly the same way as Mathman...

Only difference is I leave the expander stem out of my dedicated sizing die. I buy another FL sizer along with a floating carbide expander kit...and expand necks with the second die on the upstroke. An extra step but much worth the improved runout.

On aside, I almost always toss the RCBS/Redding lock nuts, as they suck, and replace them with Hornady's. Can't like the PITA factor with those set screws that almost always strip out. The Hornady lock nut's clamping action is more better.....