Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Lead gas check bullets ?

I found a great load for my .405 winchester out of Ken Water pet load book useing a 300 gr jacked bullet.My question is can I shoot lead gas check bullet with the same powder charge or does lead bullet cause higher pressure. My load is 53.0 gr or RL-7 with a 300 gr Hornady bullet at 2200 fps. Thank you

You should get a second or even third opinion on this, but as best I can remember from reading cast bullet and reloading manuals, a cast lead bullet will produce less pressure than a jacketed bullet.

If you do a search, you should be able to find loading information on cast bullets for this cartridge.

Yes, you should be able to use the same powder and charge, but don't expect the exact same results for accuracy, etc. I checked my Lyman #49, and while there are no .405 Win loads in it, it's an easy way to compare jacketed to cast data because they list both. In the .45-70, with 400 and 500 gr. bullets, when the same powder was tested in both jacketed and cast versions, the max load on the cast was either the same or heavier than the jacketed load with the same powder, so I'm sure you should be fine, and you may be able to bump it a little, using common sense caution and practice.

Pressure should be less, all else being equal, and if you are going to go much over 1300 or so fps, the gas-check would be beneficial. You also want them sized at least .001" over bore size.

I've always read that cast can take more powder than jacketed, due to lower friction.

I couldn't tell you what pressure differences are, but I loaded some cast and jacketed 405s over Unique in the 45-70.

45-70
18.5" Marlin bbl
Rem brass
CCI 200
16.0gr Unique
Rem 405gr JSP - 1100 fps
Laser Cast 405gr hardcast - 1300 fps

Pressures should be the same or a bit less with the cast bullet. At least I have managed my approach to that question like that over the years, without any adverse results.

As far as not as accurate? Obviously the respondant's experience don't match my own. Careful manipulation of alloys, bullet shape, velocities, ad nauseum have allowed me to duplicate (and in more than a few instances, better) the accuracy of my rifles with jacketed bullets. What I've never achieved was equal accuracy with high velocity, in an alloy that would mushroom and not shatter, out of rifles chambered for mid-to-large capacity cartridges. Decent accuracy, yes, but not as good as with jacketed.

As far as sizing to .001" over groove diameter, that is just a good rule of thumb. To take it to the next level, do a chamber cast to determine throat diameter. Select a bullet whose major diameter matches that, with a nose diameter of a size to perfectly match bore (top of the lands) diameter, of a weight and alloy compatable to the rifling rate of twist and velocity Such a bullet will be supported and stabilized about as well as humanly possible and give you accuracy you never thought possible with a lead bullet.

Something else that I discovered while shooting competitive pistol, and was written up in the American Rifleman. (Not by me).

After shooting lubed cast bullets, then going to jacketed bullets, the jacketed bullets will scatter all over the place until the lube and lead, if any, is burned out of the barrel.

It doesn't seem to matter if you go jacketed to lead, but from lead to jacketed, you need to throughly clean the barrel, or else waste a few jacketed bullets.

My experience was with the .45 ACP, but the same thing could apply to rifles as well.

One concern I have about what the OP said. I have no experience with cast bullets except in handguns, so this was never a problem, but 2200 FPS seems pretty high for cast bullets, even hard cast bullets.

"As far as not as accurate? Obviously the respondant's experience don't match my own."

I think what selmer meant was that you might have to make some adjustments with bullet hardness, type of lube, bullet weight and style, and also powder charge. I don't think he meant that you could not get good accuracy with lead bullets, but that it might take some experimenting.

I shot targets out to 200 meters (MS) with my .44 Mag. It took some testing and development, but I had some loads that were extremely accurate out to this range, better than any jacketed bullets I tried.

1234567, you're exactly right about my comments on accuracy. I simply meant don't expect to load 53 gr. RL-7 with cast boolits of the same weight as the jacketed and expect the same groups or POI. That's not to say that cast boolits can't be load developed just like jacketed. I shoot more cast than I do jacketed at this point, especially through my .357 Max Encore in particular. I get better accuracy with my own gas-checked and lubed boolits that I cast myself than I do with most jacketed boolits, and I only have one load that is interchangeable for POI and accuracy, that's a 180 gr. bullet with 21 gr. of H110, works great with either a Hornady 180 XTP or my SAECO #354 sized to .359" and my own boolit lube. Sorry for the possible misinterpretation of my post, if I were shooting a .405 Win I'd be running cast boolits without question. As for velocity, as long as the cast boolit is sized properly to the bore and a good alloy such as WW or Lyman #2 are used and lubed properly 2200 fps is just fine and excellent accuracy should be attainable.

Right on!

I think the issue with cleaning the bore when going from one bullet metal to another is specific to each individual gun. I have experienced wild grouping without doing the thorough cleaning bit, and have experienced no discernible difference also. Depends on condition of the bore.

My .357 Max shoots just fine switching from jacketed to GC cast, I haven't noticed a discernible difference out to 200 yds.