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Joined: Feb 2002
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bea175 Offline OP
Campfire 'Bwana
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John Satawa's family has displayed a nativity scene on a street median in Warren, Mich., virtually every Christmas season since 1945, but following an intimidating letter sent by the Freedom from Religion Foundation, Satawa's county has put stop to the 63-year-old tradition.

The Wisconsin-based Freedom from Religion Foundation proclaims its purpose in the letter to the Road Commission of Macomb County was to "protect the fundamental constitutional principle of separation of church and state."

But Satawa contends there's nothing unconstitutional about his privately owned and maintained Christmas display. With the help of the Thomas More Law Center, Satawa has filed a case in U.S. district court asking the judge to declare the county's cr�che rejection unconstitutional instead and order officials to permit its display.

Richard Thompson, president and chief counsel of the Law Center, commented in a statement, "Every Christmas holiday, militant atheists � use the phrase 'separation of church and state' � nowhere found in our Constitution � as a means of intimidating municipalities and schools into removing expressions celebrating Christmas, a national holiday. Their goal is to cleanse our public square of all Christian symbols.

"However," Thompson continued, "the grand purpose of our Founding Fathers and the First Amendment was to protect religion, not eliminate it. Municipalities and schools should be aware that the systematic exclusion of Christmas symbols during the holiday season is itself inconsistent with the Constitution
The story of the nativity scene began in 1945, when the congregation of St. Anne's Parish was established in the Village of Warren, and a set of Christmas statues was donated to the Catholic church for a nativity display.

Though the years, local businesses and citizens have donated materials and labor to erect and refurnish the nativity. It has been a Warren tradition for 63 years, still spearheaded by the Satawa family, and it has graced the same street median every year, save for 1996, when construction prohibited its display.

But in December of 2008, the Freedom from Religion Foundation sent the county a complaint letter.

It read, in part, "When the county displays this manger scene, which depicts the legendary birth of Jesus Christ, it places in imprimatur of the Macomb County government behind the Christian religious doctrine. This excludes citizens who are not Christian � Jews, Native American religion practitioners, animists, etc., as well as the significant and growing population that is not religious at all."

Citing a selection of Supreme Court cases, the letter concludes, "There are ample private and church grounds where religious displays may be freely placed, including, presumably, St. Anne's Parish, where this display clearly belongs. Once the government enters into the religion business, conferring endorsement and preference for one religion over others, it strikes a blow at religious liberty, forcing taxpayers of all faiths and of no religion to support a particular expression of worship."

After receiving the letter, the county road commission demanded Satawa remove the nativity scene because he had not obtained the appropriate permit.

When Satawa applied for the permit in anticipation of the upcoming 2009 Christmas season, he was denied and told by the county that the nativity scene "clearly displays a religious message" in alleged violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.

The Thomas More Law Center, however, contends the Establishment clause should protect the nativity, not forbid it.

The lawsuit points out that private displays of the community's history and tradition are currently permitted and constructed on the median in question, and that the county is discriminating against the private nativity display based solely on its content, not its constitutionality.

"The United States Supreme Court has long held that all public streets, which includes public medians, are held in the public trust and are properly considered traditional public forums for private speech," commented Law Center attorney Robert Muise in a statement, citing his own legal precedents. "Moreover, the Supreme Court has also stated that 'private religious speech, far from being a First Amendment orphan, is as fully protected under the Free Speech Clause as secular private expression.'

"Consequently," he concluded, "by restricting speech because it is religious expression, the Road Commission is imposing a content-based restriction on private speech in a traditional public forum in clear violation of the Constitution."

Specifically, the lawsuit contends, the county's prohibition of the private nativity scene "lacks a valid secular purpose, has the primary effect of inhibiting religion and creates an excessive entanglement with religion in violation of the United States Constitution."

The case has been assigned to U.S. District Court Judge Gerald Rosen, chief judge of the Eastern District of Michigan


A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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Interesting to note. Halloween decorations aren't openly attacked with lawsuits by Christians who believe the holiday to be a celebration of death and the devil while at the same time anything symbolic of God and life are pushed continualy towards outlawed status. All in the name of fairness...

Damned liberals and their lame brained lawsuits should be put in their place... publicly. Judges should just dismiss any and everything off hand, and refuse to hear from the get go, all things agenda driven.

Surely there are more important things. Can't they find something noble on which to spend effort and resources?



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bea175 Offline OP
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Doing away with Christianity is their goal and they will keep eating away at it until the word Christian will be banned.


A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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have you read about the Penn State t-shirts? They have a blue vertical line to look like the stripe on the helmets, with "Penn State" across them. A few idiots think they look like crosses so they're demanding that they're pulled out of the campus stores.
At the time, there were 6 complaints while they'd sold 30,000 of them. But the complaints get all the press.
PENN STATE

And they say there's no anti-Christian discrimination in this country?


“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell

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You see the same thing here at the fire on a somewhat regular basis and few stand up and acknowledge it for what it is.


Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other the person to die ......

"When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left, and could say, "I used everything you gave me."

IC B2

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If they allow any freedom of expression in that location, then they have to allow religious freedom of expression as well, I believe the SCOTUS has ruled on this.

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Well, I don't believe in welfare, clean needles for addicts, and ANY state sponsored support/protection of gays (it has NOT been proven to be genetic - that makes it a chosen lifestyle until proven otherwise.) Sooo I'll make a big dang stink about all the stuff the gov't does that offends ME, dang it.

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Campfire Oracle
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I am by no means a true believer..but I only made it through the first paragraph of the OP before I uttered a BIG W.T.F.!!
Isn't this still America? Where you have the right of religious freedom???
Apparently its like alot of our other rights.....whittled down to a skeleton of its original self...
Ingwe


"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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There will be no nativity scene in Washington, D.C. this year.

It has nothing to do with legal issues.

In all of D.C., they can't find three wise men and a virgin.


Be not weary in well doing.
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There has to be a way to fight these people with their own fuel. We have to find some liberal symbol, think of some chickenchit PC reason it offends us, and start writing letter.







IC B3

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Originally Posted by denton
There will be no nativity scene in Washington, D.C. this year.

It has nothing to do with legal issues.

In all of D.C., they can't find three wise men and a virgin.

Bet they can find an ass, a Muslim shepard and a black angel claiming change is here


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