Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting Stove advice needed

Hello all, I've got a few questions about stoves, primarily the gas canister ones, but I'll mention the others as well.

To begin, I have three types of stoves already. I have an Ezbit stove (solid fuel cubes), an MSR Whisperlite International (liquid fuel stove), and a Snow Peak Giga Power (gas fuel stove). I'm still having a tough time choosing which I prefer.

I bought the MSR Whisperlite because it seemed like a cool idea, being able to use my spare motorcycle gasoline to cook my meals if I needed to. A lot of my camping is on a motorcycle and carrying one type of fuel seemed smart. Since trying this approach I've noticed quite a few downsides. 1st, it is the heaviest and bulkiest (by far) of the three stove types in both the stove and the fuel. It is the most labor intensive of the three, and I have to pull out the instructions almost every time I light it up. Filling the little cup with fuel, then watching the huge fireball, then starting it before the thing blows out is a royal pain in the behind. Not to mention it is smoky and requires the most cleaning of the three.

Next comes the Ezbit. Ultra light, no fuel spills to worry about, takes up very little space, and takes hours to cook anything (OK, slight exageration but not by much ).

Last comes the Snow Peak butane stove. I love the size and weight, complete lack of mess and ease of use. But I've honestly used this one the least, and have the most questions about it. I've heard that they are useless at below 0* temps. I don't often camp at temps this cold, but sometimes I do. I heard they suck at high elevations. I often camp in the 10,000' elevation range, but seldom any higher. Now regarding this last point, I recall seeing a photo of a canister stove being used at 18 or 19k feet recently on a review I was reading (not about stoves, I just noticed it in the vestibule of a tent in the photo). If they really are that poor at high altitudes why would someone take one up Denali or Everest?

Speaking of elevation, help me wrap my head around the idea of taking a pressurized can from sea level to 10,000 feet. I live a mile or so from the Pacific. I took my Snow Peak backpacking and went to 9,000+ feet in the Sierras in a matter of hours and it worked just fine. I'm curious why this doesn't cause a pressurization issue.

Sorry for the rambling nature of the post, I just wanted to give background. So here are my intended uses: Solo backpacking for 3 to 4 day maximum trips. No real "cooking", I only boil water for freeze dried meals and melt snow for water. In an upcoming trip I'll be going from 3,000 feet to 9,000 feet in about 10 minutes (Palm Springs Tram before hiking on Mt. San Jacinto). Since it is winter, cooking will likely be in the tent vestibule.

What are your thoughts on the best tool for this scenario (of the three stoves)? And I'd appreciate any tips and info on gas canister stoves in general from those who prefer them.

Thanks in advance.

The Snow Peak is actually only good to about 20 degrees, some canister stoves can go a bit lower if you are able to flip the canister over.

Ya the Esbit is slow, so is sterno, but they are pretty simple.

It sounds you just need to practice with the MSR more, dont use gas to prime it, get a small dropper bottle of ethyl alcohol and use that instead, that will get rid of the sooty mess and the fireballs.

Personally my favorite is the Bushwacker wood cook stove from J Falk, its 30 bucks and burns twigs, small branches and other wood debris. One load will get you 15-20 minute burn time if you load it correctly, its faster than the Esbit or Sterno, but lighter than all of the above at just under 7 oz.

I've not had problems w/ canisters at elevation. I will personally try to push canister stoves as far as I can because of the convenience, size, and weight. I've used Whisperlites plenty, but probably not once in the last 3 years or so.

The SnowPeak you've got is a good stove. If using it on snow I'd put down a little piece of foam, corrugated plastic, or other very lightweight barrier for it to sit on. If you carry a piece of cc foam for a seat that works. As you probably know you can stretch the temps a bit with it by keeping the canister warm in your bag, but that becomes a problem if you're pushing your bag temp rating as well. It could be marginal for your winter trip, and that will have to be your judgment call. Have fun!

MSR Windpro for canister or MSR Dragonfly for gas

Snow Peak, Pocket Rocket, et all are relatively primitive compared to the Jetboil.

Whisperlite is a nice stove. I prefer the Simmerlite weight-wise.

For full blown reliability and simplicity the Svea 123 is hard to beat. Have used mine well below zero... douse it and light it up, you've got a reliable stove.

For a 3-season, boil only stove, Jetboil hands-down.

You can find most of the answers to your questions here:
http://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/
You can thank HikinJim, a forum member on here. It's his blog/site.

In fact, I suspect he may weigh-in on this thread.

Thanks for the input! And Snubbie, I'll check that link out. I glanced over it and it seems like there is a lot of good info.

Hello, Jedi5150.

First, I think you're making a very good decision to go to Mt. San Jacinto. It's one of my favorite spots.

Second, canister gas stoves DO NOT have trouble with altitude. Canister gas stoves have been used successfully not only on Denali but on Everest. It doesn't get much higher altitude than that. I myself have run canister gas stoves at over 11,000'. No problems. Don't know where that rumor got started (maybe because it's cold at higher elevations?), but it's the most persistent (but wrong!) rumor out there.

Third, canister gas stoves DO have trouble with cold. Generally, 20F is about the lowest I like to take them, although they will work lower, especially on a fresh canister and if you employ a trick like putting the canister in water. I have a stove related blog. On that blog, you might want to look at: [u]Cold Weather Tips for Gas Stoves[/u][/i][/b]. What I would do for a given trip is to keep an eye on the weather forecast. If temperatures was going to be significantly below 20F (but see elevation adjustment info below), I would not bring the GigaPower even though it's generally a very fine stove.

Fourth, if it's going to be really cold, then the Whisperlite Internationale, even though it's a bit of a pain, is the best stove of your three stoves to take. You might want to try priming with alcohol which is much cleaner than priming with kerosene or even white gasoline. Priming with kerosene is just a mess. Either HEET (yellow bottle) from an auto parts store or denatured alcohol from a hardware store will work.

Fifth, if you really like canister gas over liquid fuel (most people do), there is an [b]intermediate class of canister gas stoves: Remote canister stoves. These stoves can operate in weather that is 20F degrees colder than a regular canister gas stove. In other words your "floor" is 0F instead of 20F. You can go even lower if you can keep the canister warm. I wrote [i][u][b]an article for Seattle Backpacker's Magazine about Remote Canister Stoves[/b][/u][/i] if you're interested. Yes, you'd have to spend some bucks, but if you want to go out in cold weather and you want to use canister gas, then the remote canister stove is worth the investment.

Lastly, and this is actually important, gas stoves can go slightly colder as you go higher, about 2 degrees Fahrenheit per 1000' of elevation gain. In other words my 20F "floor" for a GigaPower becomes 0F at 10,000' of elevation. A remote canister stove's "floor" goes from 0F to -20F. Something to keep in mind, [i]but be a little conservative in case weather forces you to camp lower than you expect.

Hope all this helps.

HJ

Thanks HJ! Great info. I'll check out that portion of your blog right away. I sold a few items recently and decided to splurge. Yet another stove is where part of the money went. I have misplaced my Giga Power stove (I found the little plastic case, but the stove is long gone. I really do prefer gas stoves, so I decided to get the MSR Whisperlight Universal. I assume it is what you are referring to with "remote" gas stoves. I figure it will be very handy to be able to use anything from propane to unleaded gas, to kerosene, etc. I'll be putting my Whisperlite Internaitonal up for sale.

I did just play around with the two whisperlights a day or two ago. The gas is WAY easier/ faster/ cleaner, although I have been getting better at the whole liquid stove pre-heat thing. Anyways, I think that now I'll have the best of both worlds (although granted the Whisperlight Universal is heavy for a gas stove).

PS- Jim, unfortunately the Mt. San Jacinto plan fell through. It turns out the tram does not allow dogs, even when muzzled (we were told they did when we asked a year or so ago). As a general rule, I only go hiking where I can take my dog(s). So instead, we're going to Mammoth for my first winter backpacking experience. The family will be staying in the Mammoth Mountain Inn (they are not thrilled about snow camping), and I'll go off for a 2-3 day backpacking jaunt. Dogs are allowed in both the Inyo National forest as well as the Ansel Adams Wilderness (and the Mammoth Mountain Inn), so no problem with the pooches.

Jedi150:

I own a dozen or so stoves, so many that it�s hard to keep track, and I have discarded, sold or given away several more. I own and operate, or have operated, or have seen operated just about every kind of stove that�s on the market today or has been on the market for the last fifty years.

I�ll discuss fuel first. The most common types of fuel include wood, white gas, kerosene, Isobutane, propane, Sterno, and alcohol. Other less common types include butane, unleaded gas and diesel. Each has its� advantages and disadvantages.

Archeologists have discovered the remnants of fire pits in excavation dating from about 100,000 years ago. So human beings have burned wood for heat and/or cooking for about that long. You have to know how to get a fire going and in today�s increasingly urbanized world, some people just simply haven�t had much experience. Wood cook fires will coat your pots in messy soot and that can get inside your pack if you don�t clean them properly before packing. It takes longer to cook over a campfire since you have to get the fire going, burn enough wood to create a good bed of coals, then wait for the fire to die down some so you can get close enough to the fire to start cooking. Today, many people are reluctant to have a campfire because of the impact on the environment. This is most obvious in high-use areas such as US Forest Service campgrounds and other high-use places where people camp often. No matter how you burn wood, you have to deal with smoke. Wood is lightweight since you don�t carry it at all, you pick it up at camp and it can be used for heat as well as for cooking. The price of wood is right since it can be gathered free from the environment.


Caribou tenderloins broiling over the coals of an open campfire.

White gas is a clean (filtered) form of gasoline and it is a petroleum product. White gas is most often pressurized, usually with a pump, at the point of use. It burns clean and develops high BTU output at just about any ambient air temperature. White gas is moderately priced when considered on a per unit basis, compared to other fuels.

Unleaded gasoline is that which runs your car. It is not as clean as white gas and consequently it can clog tiny orifices like those in the jets of small camp stoves. But unleaded is cheaper than white gas.

Kerosene is also a petroleum distillate and it delivers more BTUs per unit than gasoline but it creates soot in its� flame and it is not as clean as white gas, so it has a tendency to clog tiny orifices like those in stove jets, just like unleaded gas. Kerosene is inexpensive compared to other fuels.

Butane and propane must be discussed together. Butane is a form of natural gas. Propane is a petroleum product. Butane produces fewer BTUs per unit than propane so it can be stored in thin walled containers, usually canisters with a threaded valve on top. Propane is more volatile and it�s pressurized, so it must be stored in thick heavy canisters. Isobutane is a mixture of 70% butane and 30% propane that produces more BTUs than pure butane but still can be stored in lightweight, thin-walled canisters. Pure butane is rarely used in camp stoves today. Propane is very popular for a variety of camp appliances when weight and bulk are not concerns. Butane will not atomize at low temperatures (about 20� F) and it operates poorly or not at all if the canisters get cold. Isobutane is relatively expensive on a per unit basis. Propane is less expensive than Isobutane but more expensive than white gas, when considered on a per unit basis.

Alcohol is a distillate from the fermentation of just about any organic material. Rubbing alcohol (isopropyl) produces soot that will blacken pots. Denatured alcohol does not produce soot and it produces more BTUs per unit than does rubbing alcohol. Typically, alcohol is burned without pressurization and you can�t see the flame. Alcohol will deteriorate aluminum so you have to carry it in plastic containers. Alcohol is moderately priced compared to other fuels but since it produces fewer BTUs per unit you have to use more fuel to produce the same amount of heat and that raises the effective price.

Sterno and Esbit are brand names for a product that is offered as a solid cube, wafer, or in a can. The solid is impregnated with alcohol. If you�ve ever gone through a buffet line, you probably have seen the small Sterno cans burning away under the pans containing hot food. Canned Sterno contains a gelatin that holds the alcohol. Sterno and Esbit fuel tabs are expensive when considered on a per unit basis and they are heavier than most other fuels.

Today, there are many types of small, lightweight stoves used by backpackers and campers and most are effective for their intended purpose when used within their design parameters.

The first widely available camp stove in the U.S. was invented by Coleman, starting with Model 1, in 1923, and they�ve gone through various changes over the years. The modern Coleman two burner stove is essentially the same as the Model 9C developed in 1927. I�ve heard them referred to as �suitcase stoves� and if you�ve done much base camping, you�ve probably used one or a variation thereof. Typically they have two burners and the top folds up to create a wind screen. Some of the early models were designed to burn kerosene but the most common are those that burn white gas. Today they are available in multi-fuel varieties that can also burn unleaded. You have to occasionally pump the fuel tank during operation to maintain pressure. The same two-burner design is also available today using propane, which eliminates the need for pumping. The fuel tank or a propane cylinder can be stored inside the case. They are too bulky and heavy for backpacking but they are still a mainstay in base camping.

Coleman invented a single-burner, cylinder stove, model 520 that burned white gas, for use by GIs during WWII. The fuel tank is attached on the bottom of the stove and it fits inside two cylindrical aluminum pots that twist together. My father had one when I was a kid but it eventually developed a leak in the fuel tank and it was cheaper to replace it with a new stove than it was to have the leak brazed shut. In their day, they were about the best thing available for lightweight camping. They haven�t been in production for decades and are now looked upon as antiques. However, that is a proven design and the compact, single-burner, liquid fuel stoves that Coleman offers today, like the 442 and the Omni-fuel, are direct descendents. The only thing that�s missing is the twist-together pots.

There are a variety of small, lightweight wood burners on the market that significantly reduce the amount of wood that is used and consequently reduce the time that you have to wait before starting to cook. The Bushbuddy and the Firespout can be folded into a small lightweight package. Or you can fabricate your own from a coffee can using a can opener and a pair of tin snips.

Optimus started manufacturing blow torches that burn white gas, in Sweden in 1899. They started manufacturing small camp stoves during the First World War and bought the SVEA Company in the twenties. But Optimus stoves were not widely available in the U.S. until after WWII. They have offered several models over the years and the all-brass models are among the most elegant stoves ever produced. Typically they are auto-generators, which means you have to prime them to get them started and heat from the fire eventually warms the fuel tank to make the fuel atomize. They don�t work well in extreme cold or in high winds because those elements reduce the effect of auto-generation. You can still see them on some store shelves today, but they are not hot items since other, more modern designs are more popular.

MSR started manufacturing the �XGK� stove about 50 years ago. It burns white gas and (according to the manufacturer) will also burn just about any kind of combustible liquid; unleaded gas, kerosene, JP4 jet fuel, perfume, high-proof liquor, alcohol, diesel, etc. It is built very sturdy and will take a lot of abuse but it�s heavy and bulky by modern standards for lightweight backpacking stoves. It�s still the stove of choice for Himalayan expeditions because white gas is not readily available in Nepal and kerosene is. The jets can be easily clogged by dirty types of fuel but MSR offers a jet designed for kerosene. It can be field maintained and repair kits are readily available. It has to be primed to get started and pumped occasionally during use. MSR also offers the �Wisperlite� stove. It�s a smaller, lighter version of the XGK and has been the mainstay of mountain climbers in the U.S. for several decades. It use to have problems with the jets getting clogged but modern �Shaker Jets� seem to have reduced that problem significantly. Like the XGK, it can be field maintained and repair kits are readily available. It also has to be primed to get started and pumped occasionally during use. It�s the �old reliable� stove and it might be the most common backpacking stove in use today but it�s not very good at simmering. Another offering from MSR is the �Dragonfly� stove. It has a second valve that improves simmering capability. I own all three of these MSR stoves and I prefer the Dragonfly. I rebuild them occasionally and change the �O� rings on the fuel bottles annually. The XGK and Dragonfly produce a very powerful flame. I suspect that it�s powerful enough to sweat solder copper pipe and if you are not careful you can singe the coating on the bottom of your stainless steel pots.


MSR Whisperlite and MSR Dragonfly.

Several companies offer small lightweight Isobutane stoves. They are very simple to operate bordering on idiot proof. Some have hoses that connect the canister to the stove and some stoves screw directly onto the top of the canister. I personally like the type that screws directly on top, because they are lighter and less bulky. I own a Hummingbird stove that is the hose type and it must be assembled/disassembled before and after use. But it becomes a reasonably compact package when disassembled. It is about twenty-five years old and it�s still available on store shelves and it costs only $30. I also own an MSR �Pocket Rocket� and an Optimus �Crux� that screw on top. Both are excellent stoves. The Crux can be placed into a small pouch that fits inside the dome on the bottom of an Isobutane canister, so the finished package is extremely compact. The Pocket Rocket fits into a small plastic container provided by the manufacturer. They do not require any assembly or maintenance. Either they work and you continue using them or they don�t work and you throw them away. I have only discarded one Isobutane stove since 1972. It was still working after about twenty years of use, but the pot stand connectors eventually broke. Isobutane is a mixture of propane and butane, and butane does not atomize at temps below freezing. So if you use one in freezing temperatures, it performs poorly while the propane burns off and stops working all together when there�s nothing left but butane. The empty canisters tend to accumulate on a long expedition and waste volume in your pack while carrying them back to civilization. I recently saw a friend break out his new Snow Peak stove and use it to heat a cup of tea on a day hike. It�s similar to the Pocket Rocket and Crux. The Coleman F1 Ultralite is another similar design. One problem with Isobutane canisters is that once you start using one there�s no way to determine how much fuel is left in the canister and the end result is that you carry a half empty canister and a full canister to ensure that you don�t run out of fuel. When my Boy Scouts want to buy an Isobutane stove I steer them towards the Coleman Peak 1 Mini Butane stove, which they can buy at Wal-Mart for $28.


L to R: MSR Whisperlite, MSR Pocket Rocket, Safesport alcohol burner, single-burner propane stove.

The Jetboil and MSR Reactor are Isobutane stoves that come with a combination wind screen/flue/pot stand that makes them very efficient users of fuel. They are designed for boiling water and they accomplish this task more efficiently than most other stoves, which means you can carry less fuel. They are not very good for cooking (like frying fish or simmering a casserole) but if all you need to do is boil water to re-hydrate freeze-dried food, one of those stoves might be your best choice.

The Primus Omnifuel and the Coleman Fyrestorm stoves have a fuel tank and pump for burning white gas and they will also accept Isobutane canisters. That seems like a good idea on the surface. However, the best thing about Isobutane stoves is that they are so lightweight and compact. So they are the best choice for ultra-lightweight summer backpacking. However, the Primus Omnifuel and Coleman Firestorm are neither lightweight nor compact when compared to other Isobutane stoves. So if you use one in the summer and burn Isobutane then you would be combining all the disadvantages of white gas stoves and Isobutane stoves. A friend tells me that his works fine in cold conditions when burning white gas, and as good as an MSR Wisperlite. So if you wanted to buy only one stove and use it in every situation, then a Primus Omnifuel or Coleman Fyrestorm stove might be your best option.


Freeze-dried dinner.

I own a small Safesport alcohol burner stove. It�s not quite as small and light as the Pocket Rocket or Crux, but it�s close. It takes a long time to get started and alcohol delivers fewer BTUs per unit than white gas so it takes more fuel to boil a given amount of water. Trangia might be the biggest manufacturer of alcohol stoves. The White Box Alcohol Stove seems to be pretty popular. They are absolutely silent when operating. So if you want a hot cup of coffee in a blind and don�t want to make any noise, it�s the way to go. When my Boy Scouts claim that they can't afford a stove, I show them how to make an alcohol burner out of a tin can using only simple tools. A Dinty Moore beef stew can is just about the right size and shape. They work better if you float a couple of cotton balls in the denatured alcohol to act as a wick. I just saw a write up on a FeatherFire stove and it looks to be very well designed.

An Esbit or Sterno stove just might be the simplest total package that�s available. When I was in Viet Nam, we used a mixture of C-4 and peanut butter to heat C-rations and we used Sterno tabs to get the mixture burning. We didn�t heat with Sterno tabs because it took too many tabs and it was too slow. But one of those stoves and a handful of fuel tablets might be just the ticket to carry in a daypack for heating a cup of coffee or cocoa on a day hike. You can buy a stove and a couple dozen small fuel tabs at your local sporting goods store for $10.

I own several propane appliances; stoves, lanterns and space heaters. Generally they are of the brand �X� variety bought at Wal Mart, K Mart or Target. They are inexpensive, simply made and so easy to operate that they are almost idiot proof. The fuel canisters are big and heavy so not good for backpacking. I use them exclusively for base camping because they are so convenient. There�s no priming, no pumping and no maintenance. Just turn on the knob, light them and they work. Propane canisters have the same problem of determining how much fuel is left in a used canister, just like Isobutane canisters.


Inside the big wall tent at elk camp.

All stoves have their various hazards and therefore we should use reasonable caution when using any of them. Alcohol stoves can be spilled and you could get burning fuel on you and your gear/tent and you can't even see the flames. I teach my Boy Scots to treat an alcohol stove as if it were a campfire. Most white gas stoves require some priming and that can create fire a hazard if too much fuel is used for priming. On rare occasions, white gas fuel bottles/pumps can leak and the dripping fuel can catch fire. Any fuel bottle with old "O" rings can leak so keep the "O" rings fresh and new. Butane canister stoves can experience some problems but it seems less prevalent in them because we usually use the canisters soon after buying them so the "O" rings don't have time to go bad. I see that Jetboil currently has a voluntary recall of one of its' control valves because it occasionally but rarely leaks. Propane canisters can also leak if they are stored too long. It�s possible to accidentally leave the valve open on most Isobutane and propane appliances and that can result in filling a tent with volatile gas just waiting to explode or asphyxiate someone. So it�s very important to close the valve securely every time you use the item.

I use Isobutane canister stoves for ultra-light summer backpacking because they are lightweight, compact and simple to operate.

I use white gas stoves for winter camping because they work at sub-freezing temps. I also use them for trips into the Alaska bush because I haven�t seen Isobutane canisters on the store shelves in Alaskan bush communities.

I use propane appliances for base camping because propane is less expensive than Isobutane and because propane appliances are more convenient to operate than white gas appliances. I don�t care about the weight/bulk of the propane canisters when base camping.

KC

Wow, great info KC! Thanks for taking the time to post it. I enjoyed reading the in-depth difference of the fuel types and the history of the stoves.

You may have seen, I ended up going with the MSR Whisperlight Universal, which I hope to be the best of both worlds. It comes set up for isobutane canisters. For my upcoming winter camping trip I'm going to be right on the edge of the lower-end temp range for gas. The weather forcasts for where I'm going are hovering between 19 and 22 degrees for nightime lows.

I've read Hikin Jim's good tutorials on using gas at temps around 0 degrees to 20 degrees F. I could definitely keep the canisters in my jacket or sleeping bag, but I may just switch out the adapter and go with white gas liquid fuel for this trip.

Sounds like you've got your plans set, but for future reference, you can hike from the west into the same areas as the ones you'd get to from the tram. The most popular trail head is the Devils Slide Trail near Idylwild. The western trail heads have no restrictions on dogs.

The Whisperlite Universal is even nicer that what I had in mind but will be a very flexible stove in terms of fuel. It won't be lighter or more compact than your Whisperlite Internationale though (about the same).

HJ

With the Whisperlite Universal, if you run with the canister upside down using the little canister stand that is included, then you're good down to around 0F -- at sea level. Mammoth is around 8000', so you'd be good on canister gas down to about -16F. Again, though, you need to run with the canister upside down.

For the temperatures you're talking about you should do fine with canister gas although white gas or kero will work fine too.

HJ

Sounds good. I'd forgotten the part about 2 degrees cooler per 1000 feet elevation. Now I recall reading that. I think I will take the gas canisters. They are way faster and easier to use (not to mention cleaner).

Hi, KC,

Lots of good info.

However, not to be rude, but stoves are my hobby, and I have a few technical "adjustments" I'd like to offer as well as just some plain old comments.

I do notice that even in those cases where you may not have described the technical details precisely, you still generally have the right idea. Clearly you know WAY more about stoves than the average guy.

There were however some things about canister gas that I, respectfully, have a different view on.

I'm not sure what you meant by "filtered," but while white gasoline is a form of gasoline, it is more than just a cleaner, filtered version of what goes into your car. White gas is actually a different formulation than automotive gasoline. Among other things white gasoline is less volatile and therefore a bit safer to use than automotive gasoline.

Very true. With respect to clogging, the issue is additives. All those anti-knock additives won't burn cleanly in a stove and are left behind as deposits that can clog your jet and generator. Unleaded in general should be used only when you just can't get anything else. Yes, you can burn it for a while and all may seem well, but your generator may be getting deposits inside that you can't see, deposits which may eventually clog the stove.

Actually, natural gas is mostly methane (CH4) with some ethane (C2H6) and carbon dioxide (C02). Butane (C4H10) is generally produced at a refinery much like propane (C3H8).

You've got the right idea, but you've described the mechanism incorrectly. The issue isn't how many BTU's but rather the issue is vapor pressure. Propane has very high vapor pressure and therefore 100% propane typically has to be stored in heavier canisters. Butane has low vapor pressure and can be stored in a little plastic Bic lighter. Try storing propane in a plastic Bic type lighter, and you'll either have a gas leak or an explosion.

Here is where I must respectfully disagree with you, and I must disagree completely. Isobutane is not a mix of regular butane and propane. Isobutane is still butane (C4H10), but the atoms that comprise the molecule have been rearranged. This rearrangement alters the chemical properties of the molecule. Think of it this way: Ever repack the trunk of your car? If you put it in one way, it just doesn't fit. Then you repack it, but now everything fits. Same stuff, but a different arrangement, one that works better.

Same thing with isobutane. Isobutane is the same stuff as normal butane (four carbon atoms, ten hydrogen atoms), but one that works better. Normal butane only vaporizes down to 31F, but isobutane vaporizes all the way down to 11F. In other words, you get 20 degrees better cold weather performance if you switch to isobutane.

Actually, technical distinction, it's not an issue of atomization but rather of vaporization, which is a phase change from liquid to vapor. The vaporization points of the gases typically used for backpacking and camping are as follows:
Butane 31F
Isobutane 11F
Propane -44F

However, you can't run a stove right down to the vaporization points listed above. The vapor pressure right at the vaporization point will be really weak, too weak to really operate a stove properly. As a practical matter, your canister has to be about 10F warmer than the vaporization point in order for the stove to have decent power. Also, your canister will chill as you run it, so if you're operating in temperatures close to the vaporization point, you're going to need to do something to keep the canister from getting colder than its surroundings.

There are a couple of technical errors here, but they're kind of minor points. I can go into them if you're interested, but the key thing to remember is to use either denatured alcohol or methyl alcohol for stoves. Methyl alcohol is typically sold in automotive stores under the brand name HEET which comes in a yellow bottle. Denatured alcohol is typically sold at paint and hardware stores. Both work fairly well.

I don't know if it matters in practical terms but Sterno is alcohol based and ESBIT is hexamine based. ESBIT is not alcohol based. Technical distinction for the sake of accuracy.

I've seen the Bushbuddy (nice), but I haven't seen the Firespout. I'll have to look that up.

Actually, Optimus bought the rights to the Svea name from AB Sievert in 1969. Optimus bought out Lux, Radius, Svea, and Primus (liquid fuel only) in the 1950's and 1960's as the industry was consolidating. Primus has subsequently gotten back into the liquid fueled stove business, but Lux and Radius never reappeared. The only Svea stove still in production is the Svea 123R, a really nice white gas stove. Sievert still exists as a company but does not produce backpacking type stoves to my knowledge.

The XGK is one of the toughest stoves out there. Officially though, it does not burn liquor/alcohol. The manual calls for petroleum products only. Unofficially, though, I've talked to guys who have made it work on alcohol. However, if you run it on alcohol, you're on your own, and you might void your warranty.

You are absolutely correct that there is no direct way to tell how much fuel is left while you're out in the field (unless you want to schlep around a scale!). However, there is an indirect way: water displacement. I wrote an article for Seattle Backpacker's Magazine last year if you're interested.

Good choice!

Good summary, and:

The one thing that most people don't know is that with something like a Coleman Fyrestorm, Primus Omnifuel, MSR WindPro, or MSR Whisperlite Universal you can run on gas with the canister upside down. If you run with the canister upside down, a gas stove will work at temperatures approaching 0F.

So, using canister gas above freezing and white gas below freezing isn't a bad way to go, BUT you can run on canister gas down to 0F (well below freezing), if you have a canister gas stove with a hose and a generator. Running on canister gas is generally a little lighter (no pump) and a little more convenient (no priming).

OK, so for what it's worth, those are my comments and technical "adjustments."

Respectfully,

HJ

And the verdict is...HJ knows more about stoves than almost anyone. Technical knowledge really is worth something, good post.

My brain just exploded.

In all seriousness, excellent info Jim, and KC. I really appreciate the work you guys have gone through to shed light on the backpacking stove topic. I'm sure it will benefit a lot more people that just myself.

Do you know about the newest thing on the market... Soto Muka? It is a multi-fuel stove like the MSR Whisper BUT with no priming or soot! I have the MSR Whisper Lite and the Snow Peak Ti LiteMax but I defintely plan on getting one of these. It's clean enough to use indoors on my kitchen counter but packs plenty small.

Soto Muka @REI

This thing looks like the shiznat I played with one att the store and the leg design looks ridiculously strong because they are straight verticals. I would say that I could easily put a Dutch oven on this thing.

Hikin_Jim:

Wow! I'm reeling. Thanks for all the fine adjustments. It's interesting to hear the technical details from a chemist. It's also nice to know that my practical experience has resulted in conclusions that, although maybe not chemically/scientifically correct, are generally correct in practical application.

Thank again for the technical details.

KC

I played with one at a gear shop in town. They are neat--I like Soto's build quality. I surely don't need one, but were I in the market for a white gas stove it'd be on top of the list.