Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Any vintage 1911 Guru's out there?

Hi, I just picked up a vintage 1911 that I am a bit confused on its lineage. It is a franken gun but I am finding some inspector marks that confuse me. The slide is a Ithaca but the frame markings are the dilemma. I see the United States Property clearly marked but the inspector marks of EEC indicates a Remington inspector, over a Eagles Head Springfield cartouche. The serial number indicates a Colt frame ala 1912 though. Of course it could be a counterfeit too. I paid shooters price so not that I got soaked. Any help is appreciated.

There are likely a couple of gurus here

but there are definitely some at this site:

http://forums.1911forum.com/forumdisplay.php?s=ebd07a09353c69b4e69c77b69f33c12f&f=30

Wow. If it's not a counterfeit frame you really have yourself a treasure there.

That is a fact and it was probably an early WWII refurb, they just pulled em apart and binned the parts and the commenced to build guns from the bins without regard to maker. Evan as such it is a fairly valuable piece because of the 1911 Colt frame. The inspectors marks are from the rebuild BTW and it may have been done more than once..

Of course I am assuming it is a Colt frame because of the SN and the cut outs under the grips. Another SN inconsistency is the is the Colt's I have seen has No. vs. the NO on this one. I have not found any other markings to indicate it is a Colt.

I found this blurb out there...

Ithaca started production in December of 1942 and was the only established firearms company to produce 1911A1s other than Colt. The total number of pistols produced by Ithaca was 335,466. In early 1942 & 1943 Ithaca did not have all the equipment necessary to manufacture the components so they received parts from other contractors that included 6,200 WWI receivers that Springfield had in storage. These early Colt receivers (frames) can be quickly identified by the cut-outs under the stocks. Colt also supplied many of the small parts.

Looking at some online images I see the type face on the vintage colt is more traditional.


Here is an example of the Eagles head on a Colt.



I don't really want to join 1911.com but will have a friend post some pics there, that definitely seems to be the resource.

Yep, that is why the Union Switch & Signal guns had High Standard barrels.

The 1911.com is an excellent resource as mentioned.

I have a 1911 colt "black army" WWI vintage, it has the springfield eagle on it. The reason for that is that was stamped on the gun after acceptance by the military.
grips arent original either. Don't believe the sights are either, and notice the difference between the slide stop, and mag release. It has been parted together for sure. However that is a early number for the frame
EEC is edmund e chapman, who was inspector for remington UMC at the time, not colt
if i get time i will look up some of it in my clousen's book

If i remember right without looking, i have some hi standard barrels in WWII remington's

Would not surprise me, they made a bunch.

The slide is what seems to be a National Match rework as it has a NM barrel and bushing. The sights were added but I do not know if the NM rework included the rear sight at least.

You should reach out to member JamesDunn, he'll have the straight scoop. And if there's any chance of returning that gun to original condition (be it WW II rebuild, or WW I original), he's the man who will know where to get the parts.

The sights look like Hienie "Straight Eight" sights, to me, similar to what is on the Taurus 1911s.
I probably wouldn't shoot it "hot 'n' heavy" due to the age of the parts, but it'll be a fun gun to play around with.


It's a shooter, not a collector's wet dream.

So what you have is a WWII refurbish as some others have said, but it is not a Colt frame.

The Serial number, EEC and eagles head indicate it is a Remington-UMC frame, 1918 vintage.

The only thing strange about it is that it is parkerized, but it does not have an arsenal rebuild stamping on the frame anywhere. So it might not be a military mixmaster or someone may have put it together. If it shoots well, enjoy it!

My grandfather's 1911..went to SEA with me after some mods.New barrel/bushing,sights,grips,beaver tail and mags.All parts are original Colt as the gun was given to him for his civilian service at a Naval ordinance plant during WW2.I've kept all the parts of course so real easy to reverse engineer back in time..Don't have clue of its value but it will stay in the family,just too much history.

Did Remington make WWI guns? I thought they were only WWII

You're thinking of Remington-Rand. They made 1911 A1s during WWII. I have one in extremely nice condition, that likely came home in someone's duffle bag, which was a common practice back then.

That is an interesting trigger/cut out on that one!

That is most definitely a M1911 frame from the WWI era

Colt, Springfield, and Remington Arms were the only manufactures of M1911's......Colt being the majority of course

Remington-Rand were M911A1s

If the slide is Ithica, it is definitely a rebuild either by the military or someone else

Here is a website of serial numbers and manufacturers

http://www.coolgunsite.com/pistols/colt%20production.htm

That is Remington UMC for the WWI, remington rand for WWII. Which is often times where the confusion starts. A lot of these guns ended up being modifyied for various reasons. At one time you could get one through the NRA as mil surp for about 28bucks. Then they got played with for bullseye competition and other things. Personally I kind of prefer the WWI version with the flat mainspring housing and long trigger pull. The bugger is a Lot of the pistols had sights replaced and that front sight is staked in. Try finding an original staked front sight. If anybody has one they would like to sell let me know. I have a 43remington rand that needs an original front sight. That particular pistol is 100% original except the front sight, and the rear sight being replaced by what passed as national match about 50years ago. I located an original rear, but not the front.

Numrich Arms www.gunpartscorp.com/