Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Predators and Varmints Lackadaisical Varminters (?)

lackadaisical: (def.) #1 - without true spirit, intensity or drive.

So far this spring (if you can call it a spring!) I have hosted 13 out of state Varminters for some Gophering here in Montana.
And to tell the truth many of them I believe are just plain lazy or perhaps better described as, lackadaisical!
These folks have travelled many hundreds and in some cases thousands of miles to get here to try and smoke up some Varmints.
At least 7 of those "Varminters" had arms that were not sighted in - for a total of ten un-sighted in or untested Rifles - in all!
That, even ONE, of these persons would travel across the country with an un-sighted in or un-tested Rifle is puzzling to me.
But 7 of them is to the point of ridiculousness.
Having to sight in Rifles while good Varminting light and conditions abound, is just flat out a waste of time not only for the owner of the arm but of the hosts!
Sheesh.
Then, 4 of the above mentioned arms needed to have repairs done to their various optics mounting systems!
They flat out failed immediately or would not work dependably.
Luckily three out of those four systems were repairable with tools, parts and/or screws I had on hand.
These travelling Varminters came to Montana from all corners of the U.S. including Florida, Louisianna, Illinois, New Hampshire, NW Washington state, Oregon, California and Idaho.
THEN, two of the "Varminters" showed up with virtually NO ammunition for some of their Rifles - thinking, apparently, that ammunition is more widely available here in remote SW Montana than it is "back home".
Wrong there.
One of our "range sessions" in which we were trying to sight in one of said Rifles, lasted 4 hours!
The problem turned out to be incorrect screws in a Rifles mounting base. The wasted time included a 34 mile and return round trip to Casa de la Varminto for longer screws for the base.
This problem should have been solved "back home" long before an expensive trip to the wiles of the Rocky Mountains was undertaken.
My long time friend and co-host for several of these "Varminters" vowed to never again waste daylight and Varmint Hunting time taking people to the Rifle range to do something that should have been done long before arrival at the chosen Hunting grounds!
I totally concur with that.
There were some positives demonstrated by this years crop of "Varminters" so far, out of the 13 Hunters they brought along 15 arms in caliber 17 HMR alone!
There was an outstanding display of top quality optics including those by NightForce, Zeiss, Bausch & Lomb, Nikon, Leupold and Weaver.
Also the brands of arms themselves was VERY impressive including those made by Colt, Kimber, Bushmaster, Volquartsen, Cooper, Remington, T/C, Ruger, CZ, Tikka and a couple of custom Varminters.
Theres nothing more satisfying for me than sharing a good Varmint Hunt with like minded gun cranks.
Theres nothing more frustrating for me than wasting time preparing arms that should have been in "ready to rock" condition at the get go!
Next year the plan is to greet any visiting "Varminter" that announces the night before the "big Hunt" that he needs to stop by the range to sight in his Rifle with this - "here's the keys to the range gate and the keys to my car, we'll see you back here around the lunch hour"!
I'll bet that will put and end to this so oft repeated lackadaisical malady by my visiting Varminter friends!
It takes a lot to get me to be critical or direct with others but I am sure I spent 20 hours of my time watching folks sight-in their Rifles and try to get their guns to act consistent.
Its time for action.
Anyone have a better plan or suggestion?
More later
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

For one thing I'm amazed you got ANY shooting done this "spring" we only had about 20 hours of shooting weather and it sounds like you spent it at the range!
I used to do the same thing with outta state trout fishermen, with the same results...
Your stories reminded me of four dudes we had in the shop last year. Just rolled in from Wa. for some varmint shooting, and they were pretty puffed up about themselves and their gear. So I asked one what did he bring, he listed off four rifles, and he said " I'll bet I have almost 500 rounds of ammo, between the four of them.." ( this was a week long trip...)
So I had to ask.." what'll you plan on doing in the afternoon...?
I am like you VG, I love an outing with like minded individuals. My best varmint partner and I, on our first day out,got on a PD town and without speaking, rapid fire, killed everything we could in .223 range..." what now?" he says, and I told him I gotta go back to the truck and get my heavy .300 for the long shots...He beamed.." I brought one of those too!"
NOT lackadaisical....
Ingwe

Tell them before they leave to have all their equipment in order and working properly before they start a trip. on't show up expecting you to help them sight in and make repairs etc.

There maybe some esoteric items or equipment that people should be notified of. But having your rifles in good working condition and sighted in before the hunt is a basic requirement up to the individual hunter. If you don't make some attempt to cover the basic equipment check your creating a circustance that can make all hunters look bad.

Sounds you demonstrated more patience than many people would have... I commend you for that.. but also do not blame you for not wanting to cross that bridge another season...

sounds like these guys have been spoiled on too many trips with folks catering to them...

I bet all of these rifles were capable of "puttin' em' all in one hole" before they got there

There is no excuse for that kind of lack of preperation. From what I've heard, PH's in Africa have the same problems with clients going after Dangerous Game. Pure Stupidity.

One might claim the pressures of work, all the other things to be attended to before a trip, honey-dos or whatever. But the bottom line is that you have a year to prepare for an annual trip, no?

Don't hunt with folks who are accustomed to paying others to do their homework.

Going on any hunt with any firearm that is not sighted in and in good working condition is just plain unethical.

Yes, lots of pure crap comes to Africa being toted by wanna be gun nuts with just enough knowledge to be dangerous and enough money to get many folks into big trouble.

How about the leoaprd hunter who showed up with a rifle wearing a 6-18 power scope and insited on keeping the scope on 18 power! Missed a sitting leopard at 25 yards in broad daylight because he could not find the cat in the scope! I got to loan a client my 416 Rigby with 400gr Barnes solids because he had the idea that the power of his 378 Weatherby would put down a Cape Buff due to its power, even though it was loaded with cup and core bullets. Cup and core made it into ONE lung only, Bad JuJu. Dicey follow up job the next day fortunately went well. IIRC, it had a Bushnell scope on it as well...... ick!

There are SEVERAL good reasons why we always have our clients 'sight in' thier rifles.

Varmintguy, Bless you for your patience. So far the guys from here at 24hrcf that I have hosted have arrived with good stuff ready to rock and roll. I also would be wondering about what a guy was thinking going all that way, taking up your good will and time and then not being prepared to get after 'em.

Ohhh, man I have seen some scary stuff in Africa, and it seems like MORE rather than less of it in the DG camps. Saw one guy arrive for a Buffalo hunt with a .72 cal double rifle- a muzzleloading hammer gun! He had never even fired the thing and made no bones about the fact he was scared pea-green of it!( me and the PHs played with it quite a bit, it was fun, but was certainly not a Buffalo gun)
Another dude shows up with a Ruger #1 .416 Rigby, which he had previously fired an aggregate of six times!( he got to shoot it six more his first morning hunting!... it didn't go well...)
Yet another, whose hunt for plains game I helped line up insisted on his .300RUM with a 4.5-14 scope on it, sighted 3 inches high at 200 yds. I told him emphatically to sight spot on at 100 yds. but he was having none of it... shot and lost a Waterbuck, a noble creature and a $1600 Trophy fee down the Krapper.
I'm sure any one of us could go on and on with these observations of the ill-prepared...
Ingwe

I'm sure any one of us could go on and on with these observations of the ill-prepared...
Ingwe

Yup, I've had it happen with a buddy that's normally a well prepared hunter. As far as advise on how VG should deal with his situation it sounds he's got a good game plan going. Having the guest hunters get their own equipment ready would be the right thing to do, although it might not be as easy as throwing them the keys to the truck. If they have problems with their rifles then what next? Maybe there needs to be a "proof" target requirement before bringing a rifle up to hunt. Sounds like he handled it very well. Really what more could you have asked from a good host?

He's a better host and more patient man than I....
Ingwe

Bucktales: I see your point - but I think these folks weren't intending to HUNT with un-sighted in or un-tested Rifles - their intent was to sight in "on scene" so to speak.
Again thats just a waste of good Varminting time.
I did get another excellent suggestion from an E-mail source and that was to take along on the Hunt (while others are actually Hunting Varmints!) a portable target!
AND I happen to have one of those - its actually a very heavy wire rod frame in the shape of a rectangle about 2 1/2 feet high.
It has four heavy duty clamp type things to clamp onto the paper targets.
Two of the clamps are on the top of the rod frame and two are on a sliding (adjustable to the size of the paper target!) cross member rod.
There are foot pegs to step on the frame driving it into the ground. I bought this rod framed target holder to use in my "wind-proof" 107 yard long tunnel. I sometimes shoot there when the wind won't allow me to shoot in dead calm conditions like I prefer.
Anyway I will just bring along this two pound rod frame target holder and some targets and anyone that wants to "verify" their Rifles zero at altitude, can do so!
That way I won't hurt anyones feelings and virtually no time (shooting light!) will be "lost" to Varminters that have been neglectful in their trip preperations!
Yes, bucktales even Varmints should be treated as ethically as possible and that includes Hunting them with well prepared armaments!
I agree with you there.
Last night I put together a Ruger 77/17 V/T (VMBBZ!) in 17 HMR for a close friend. He has struggled all winter to be able to afford one of these AND a Weaver V-16 scope to go on it.
It all went together without a hitch, the scope mounting and the ring lapping and the bore sighting - but this "friend" also wants me to sight it in for him "if I get a chance"!
This brings up another sticky wicket type issue, I mean granted my friend just took possession of the Rifle and the scope this week and he wants to Hunt with it ASAP - BUT - wouldn't it be better for the owner to take the responsibility for sight-in and initial shooting?
I am not to worried about there being a "different point of bullet impact" between us but hey - its his Rifle after all.
And what if there is some "glitch" in the operation or function of the Rifle - or heaven forbid I drop or damage said Rifle.
I "volunteered" for this duty though and after all this fellow took me to his remote and secret Elk camp last fall where I had a couple of awe inspiring close encounters with a "350 Bull Elk"!
But in my 50+ years of Hunting and shooting I have NEVER once asked another person to "sight-in" one of my Rifles.
It just seems "unseemly" to me to do this, but every year I end up sighting in 4 to 8 Rifles for "friends".
I enjoy shooting so much that I do it but it still bugs me a bit.
Cest le vie - I guess.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

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^ Same here .

I quit taking people predator calling -for many of the reasons VG listed.

I agree, you had some lazy hunters, you stated some events that took place that I would never tolerate.

how much does it cost a man to go on a varmint hunt up there?

One of the things that shines thru here is that it just goes to show that people have various levels of committment in all facits of life.

Bottom line, some people really have a passion for this or that, and some don't. Not wrong just different, is the way I look at this. Although there was a time when this kind of crapola would about drive me over the edge.

Many different thought processes and ways of going about life.

Years back I did the tourist guide thingy. Honestly as I've aged (I'm still younger than you Ingwe so be careful...grin) and for the most part these days I wish to have nothing to do with taking my personal time and playing tourist guide.

I have a very close group of core friends (I call them family), you know the kind of friend who you can call at any hour of the day or night, and no favor is exempt from asking. And I'd do the same for these guyz. For them if they wished to do something with me I'd make it happen.

Other than that, I've not much interest in taking the precious time I get and going thru the paces of helping them out and playing tourist guide.

Sounds a bit harsh perhaps, but for me it's not.

I say go the distance for your "family" and let the rest sort it out on their own.

Just my way.

Dober

Simoneaud: You can Hunt "Varmints" in Montana for free.
There is no license required to Hunt Prairie Dogs, Rock Chucks, Jack Rabbits, Ground Squirrels, Fox, Snowshoe Hares, Weasels, Coyotes, Badgers, Cottontail Rabbits, Raccoons, Porcupines and some others.
You do need a "Trappers License" to Hunt Bobcat and Wolverine though and I do not believe "non-residents" are eligible to buy a Montana Trappers License.
The "expense" is in getting here!
There are NO cheap flights to anywhere in Montana from ANYWHERE!
Many of the folks I am referencing flew here and then rented 4x4 vehicles and some had their munitions shipped ahead prior to their arrival.
I had a friend in from Germany year before last and he rented the big Ford Excursion - his cost was $600.00 a week for that vehicle!
This guy is bucks up though and just got back to Germany from trips to Guatemala and Cuba this spring.
To some people money is NO object - I wish that were the case with me.
The limit now on most all airlines is 3 firearms so its not like a guy needs to spend more than an hour or two at a range to prep 3 Rifles for a high plains adventure!
And the limit on bringing munitions on planes is miniscule!
So the cost is just travel expenses and lodging etc. - and those costs can be sizeable these days.
You have to pay to play as they say.
Each year I keep telling myself "these guys have surely learned their lesson and will have their gear ready to go - next year" and I just grin and bear it each spring.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Mark R Dobrenski: Dober your words are so true!
One of the first things I do when taking someone new along on any kind of venture whether its fly fishing, Coyote Hunting, Antelope Hunting, Elk Hunting, Colony Varmint Hunting, Mule Deer Hunting or what ever IS to size up their "intensity of endeavor", their "commitment", their propensity towards solving problems vs. their propensity for "CREATING" problems!
This plan and policy of "assessing" others is never made obvious to them - but this procedure and the results has great bearing on planning future ventures.
Honest to gawd I took a lifelong friend of mine Varmint Hunting in Wyoming a few years back and he was so intent on complaining about EVERY thing he could find to complain about that I simply wrote him off.
He no longer Hunts with me nor do I socialize or communicate with him - life is just to short to chum with folks that make problems!
And this fellow used to be a gang buster great guy to Hunt and shoot with.
I have NO idea what has caused this slowly growing yet drastic change in him.
I wish him well as he chooses to live under a premanent "black cloud".
You are absolutely correct in your policy of sharing your time, talents and adventures with people you know and like and trust.
Still I find myself taking in "bum lambs" fairly often - probably TO often.
A person only gets ONE life to live and avoiding wasting time and effort becomes more and more important as the years go by.
Funny weather down here Mark, night before last it tied a record low for the date then later that day it missed tying a record high by one degree!
Sheesh.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy