Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Newer powders are they really that much better?

Having tried many of the newer offerings I find myself going back to the old stanbys like IMR's and H's. Since I hand weigh all charges I can see where many new ones excel in the metering dept but after chrono results don't see a big significant difference with most of my chamberings. I still like to load as close to full case capacity as possible but with many newer powders you don't even come close...Comments?

I don't use pressure trace on anything but some of the odd ball stuff I play with. But I think I can get better velocities using some high energy powders. VV N560 and N570 are some of the ones I use a great deal and I feel like I get great filling and top velocity in a lot of different cases. Who knows what those pressures are but pressure signs are absent, the loads comport with QL predictions, and my brass is not suffering.

Define better.

I suppose more environmental temperature stability is better.

I'm inclined to agree with a long ago comment by Neal Knox to the general effect that more powders to choose from means more benefit from choosing a powder that does a better job of meeting specific needs than any other powder. Bearing in mind that fine gradations mean another powder just may be better for an otherwise similar load.

I can load most of the rifle cartridges I shoot with 4895 for acceptable results - a given varmint cartridge might need cleaning less with TAC or one of the newish powders that deals differently with copper fouling. BallC(2) works with many of the cartridges I load for but another powder might be less temperature sensitive.

Again I don't suppose there are any new powders that are vastly superior over a large range of cartridges and so obsolete existing powders (though I'll never shoot 3.5 grains of Bullseye behind a #130 bullet with Alox/beeswax for extended indoor sessions again when there are IMHO better powders and better lubes for gallery pistol). I do think new powders to choose from means finding a powder that is better in a particular load than many of the commonly used old standbys. Somebody is buying enough 3031 to keep the line running though.

I don't know.I have been using the same powders I have always used for many years. It doesn't seem to be broken ,so I am not goingto try to fix it.What I use gets the job done.

They're all good, old and new. Each one does something -in somebody's gun, at least - that none of the rest do.

And none of them are magic pixie dust.

Magpro is close!

Some of the new powders are improved, but in ways that won't affect the ways most of us shoot and hunt.

Also, some of the "same old powders" have improved considerably over the decades, including IMR4350 and H4831. In fact they're not really the same powders they used to be.

I've been using H4831 since it was a mil-surp powder, and that version was quite different than today's H4831SC. The burn rate and basic applications are very close (it's still probably tbe best all-around powder for the .270 Winchester) but the latest H4831SC is far less temperature-sensitive and much easier to meter through a measure. It's also denser, so fits in case/bullet combos it didn't before. IMR4350 is also much less temp-sensitive than it used to be, while retaining it's outstanding accuracy.

The biggest improvements I've seen have been in ball powders. They used to be much more temperature sensitive and dirty-burning, but these days they've improved considerably in both areas. This means they have the advantage of precise metering without the need to clean the barrels of our prairie dog rifles every 50 rounds. In fact these days I usually never clean my PD rifles on a 2-3 day shoot.

The average deer or elk hunter who never shoots over 300 yards will probably never notice any difference, but for certain applications, yeah, today's powders are noticeably better.

A little depends on the cartridge in question.

I hate the way most IMR stuff meters, but they don't give up much.

I welcome the opportunity to try the latest and greatest powder to come on the market. There is a circle of fellow reloader's that are of like mind and we exchange powder to experiment in our respective firearms.

Without new components coming on line some of this reloading business could get boring.

The LeverEvolution propellant in my 30-30's works well and is more accurate than any powder I have used for that cartridge.
I follow Hodgdons loading data and use the bullets they suggest along with all the components they suggest and they publish low pressure for these loads 34,ooo to 36,ooo CUP and I have exceeded previous velocities by 100-50 fps.

While it is true you can get better velocities with VVN560 and VVN570 the downside is shortened barrel life....I went back to the "1" series.

I've gone to Ramshot X-Terminator and Tac for my 223. I can't say the accuracy's any better than IMR 4895, H335, Benchmark or 748 but the velocity's good and there's a lot less rifle cleaning.

I'm still using the older powders on the 30-06 and 7x57. I've got plenty of it, they work and I don't shoot them as much as the 223.

I have burned at least 40 lbs of 560 and have never had a barrel life issue. I have seen a 6x47 lapua toasted in 400 rounds using varget. I got 1600 rounds out of my last 6x47 using 560, 1800 and over 2200 out of the previous two. Turns out that maybe varget is not the best powder for that application, but it is still a great powder. I have heard the claims of short barrel life before, usually by people who have burned less than a pound of it.
I don't know what you were shooting it in and what grain bullets, but my experience with heavy for caliber bullets and extremely full cases does not mirror yours. I have probably 30 lbs of the 1 series powders laying around would love to trade them for 5 series.

Plus one to this post. ALso note what are you exactly after? Often if you can gain 100-200 extra FPS safely some say its not worth it. But isn't that often the difference between say a 30-30,308,30-06,300 mag and so on.

For me, before I jump into something new, I go 2 ways, if its totally brand new to me, like my 284,I'll try the "best" powder to start with, because most don't like max loads anyway so if I start with faster possibles, I don't loose as much as I back off a bit.
The other thing on a known performer, what am I trying to better? If its temp sensitivity, I"ll work with that by testing. If I"m trying to gain something like less drop or less wind drift, I calc that out, and then backwork it to see what I have to gain and how I can get there and then I test. Often it has to be a combo of bullet, powder, bullet coating, etc.... OR move to a larger round if need be.

I tried Superformance in my 300WSM with 130, 150, and 165gr bullets. The accuracy was so bad that I didn't even bother to chrono it.

I ended up with H414 with the 130 and Rl-19 in the 150 and 165gr. Velocity may not be as high as book shows with the Superformance, but the accuracy more than makes up for it.

I try to use the same old proven stuff and load everything with H4895, H4350, H4831 (including the SC version), and Varget. I don't know if Varget would be defined as a "new" or "old" powder.

But for certain purposes, I use others.

AA2230 is far and away the best powder, in my opinion, for the best velocities and loading density in the .458 Winchester with 450 or 500 grain bullets.

Varget for the .223. I am beginning also to use it wherever I use H4895.

RL15 is the best for the .375 H&H, and also may be the best for the .223.

RL 15 isn't bad for the 223, but IMHO of MANY barrels and who knows how many rounds, it is not the best for the 223. Varget overall used to take that, and if I were active in shooting enough, TAC might rule that these days.

If you are using VVN560 and Varget for the same application you dont have a [bleep] clue what you are doing!!!!!

Reading is fundamental. I never said I used varget in the 6x47 case. I said I saw a barrel trashed by varget. I have always used VV560 since swapping from N160. The guy your assuming does not have a clue was Don Geraci Bench rest hall of famer, world record holder, and gunsmith. I will say this for him, he shot a clean 600 with like a bunch of Xs, might have been a NRA senior record if the match had been sanctioned.

Hunter is one of the newer powders I tend to like,it's 4350 burning rate is very compatible with many of my chamberings and accuracy is very good.I need to do some load testing with the RL's as I have both numbers but just haven't had the time or weather window lately.