Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Failure to fire but why? Pics included.

Went to the range with a buddy yesterday to check out his new DDM4 and I brought my AR so he could check out an Eotech sight.

So, when it came time to fire my weapon, I inserted a mag chambered a round, aimed and..."click". I dropped the mag and opened the bolt but noticed the bolt didn't seem to open as freely as it should. I checked the primer and there was no evidence of a strike by the firing pin. I set that round aside, reinserted the mag, chambered a new round, aimed and "click" again. This time, I really had to pull hard on the charging handle to eject the round. Still no primer strike. Now I am confused because this ammo is from the same lot I had reloaded and had been shooting just two weeks earlier.

I should have stopped right there but noooo, I had to try it just one more time. My buddy handed me one of his mags with factory ammo in it and I fired three rounds with no problem so I put my mag back in and �click�. This time, I can�t pull the charging handle back to eject the round. After about 30 minutes of messing with it, we got it to move back and I finally got it into my thick head that I need to quit screwing around or I was going to end up with an out of battery firing. One thing I noticed was that when chambering a round the charging handle seemed to �mush� its way closed. By that I mean it just didn�t seem to have the crisp noise of the bolt slamming home. However, with the factory ammo, it also didn�t seem to close with the normal authority. One thing I just remembered. When I went out to shoot two weeks ago, I had one FTE but it came out quite easily with a slight nudge by a cleaning rod. When I inspected it, a small piece of the rim (?) was broken off. Presumably by the extractor?

I measured three rounds and here is what I have.

COAL ------- 2.200---2.205---2.203
CASE ------- 1.757---1.750---1.750
NECK ------- 0.251---0.251---0.251
SHOULDER----0.356---0.355---0.355
BASE ------- 0.377---0.372---0.374



I am going to take the weapon apart and inspect the bolt and related pieces. I do have a spare BCG and might just go ahead and put that one in and check it. That will, of course, involve a trip to the range before I put a loaded round into the gun at this point.

Any ideas? Anything else I should be checking out? Here's some pics. The circle in the one picture is showing where there are some minor scrape marks on the case.

you reassembled the bolt carrier group wrong when you cleaned it last. the firing pin is now behind the cotter key.

Then why would it fire his buddy's ammo and not his. How do it know?

Never mind, Timbo got it first.

Going out to disassemble the rifle now.

I missed that it fired his buddies ammo. I am done I shall reply no more to gun does not fire threads" Mine always fire because I don't buy junk.

thats kind of a chitty azz reply jimmy. Really is. The best can flub up.

And I think from looking, dirty chamber, brass not sized quite enough or such. Most likely to me.

If you are on the ragged edge of sizing just enough, but no more and then you for some reason use a hair less lube, teh die backs out a hair or such..

My first thought is go size a piece of brass and cahmber it and see if its different or same. If same, screw die down a hair, try again until it chambers easy, if it does, then something just got out of whack a bit.

Ok fixed it. Still no more "why it don't shoot" from me.

Ya, that's kinda what I had in mind. Since I was firing a bunch of ammo from the same batch two weeks ago I am first going to make sure the gun gets a good cleaning. Then, since my daughter wants to start learning about reloading, this will be a good time to teach her when I am going slowly and precisely with this next group. Thanks Rost, you always have good info.

Oops, I mean I am going to "first" try running one through the die then the rest as above.

It appears you are neck sizing?
AR's tend to run better with full length sized brass.
Get a case gauge and drop a few in it as you load.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...el-tools/match-case-gauge-prod41313.aspx

Sorry jimmyp, I wasn't trying to step on anyone's toes. I know you don't buy junk, because you just said so. But since AlaskaFE didn't mention the brand of his AR, how do you know he does?

Your bolt isn't seating all the way. You said it felt like "mush" when closing.

My guess is that your cases aren't sized correctly and are causing it to not fully seat. Therefore, no contact by firing pin.

If factory ammo works with different mags, that's a clue that it's ammo related. I'd make sure your cases are the correct size and the bullets are seated correctly. If all the measurements are correct (within factory specs for a quality ammo) then it should fire fine.

If not, then my theory is all off and it's back to the drawing board.

Jim, I am running them through a full length die. Since they seemed to work two weeks ago it might be a combination of not quite correctly sized and a dirty gun. I just taught my daughter how to clean and function check an AR tonight and will size a few rounds in a day or two. Tomorrow is my day at the hospital and then, since we just moved to our new place, I have to finish setting up my reload station with the press. Should be able to start in again by Wednesday.

Oh, and just because the subject has come up, my AR is almost completely RRA. I started building it with an LAR stripped receiver and went with RRA for everything else.

Your right, I was inappropriately aggravated because I missed part of the verbiage in the multiple picture missive surrounding the mystery rifle that did not fire, my apologies to the OP and to all. The Jack Daniels clouded my reason, I don't normally drink and post but yesterday was a birthday in our house. I am curious as to why the OP initially identified his buddies rifle but not the make and model of his own, but then as everyone says all black rifles are about the same and "parts is parts". I saw a $700 ATI sitting next to a $1400 Daniel Defense rifle yesterday and thought to myself that some fool was going to waste money on that DD just because of the name on the receiver. Finally I need to add that I have no "real" experience with the black rifles although I have owned at least one all my life beginning in 1976. I always defer to those that have used them daily or competed with them firing many thousands of rounds per year.

In my case I am sure its just "good Karma" and has nothing to do with who made the rifle but as far as I can remember I have not had a single failure to fire, failure to feed, failure to extract. Its weird that all my DI guns work all the time, spooky weird. I do clean my guns once every thousand rounds or so and in between I have always been liberal with the lubricant but its the soup Du Jour as far as lubricant is concerned. I really may pick that ATI up I saw yesterday and some USA mags and give them a whirl, because I read it on the internet that "parts is parts" and anything you read on the internet is true. Bonjour!

Make of your AR is more important than just "brand name."

Prime example???? RRA. They used to be all Wylde chambers. Now they're mostly NATO chambers, but still make and sell Wylde chambers, but I think they're marked as such. Used to be just marked 5.56.

I'd check to make sure which chamber you have. Could make a bigger difference if your reloads weren't correctly sized. A small difference becomes bigger when the chamber you thought you had ain't.

Dirty gun should have zero to do with it. They can get really, really filthy before you'll have issues, and it's usually a fail to extract first. But not always.

I shoot my .223 ammo out of 6 different semi autos. I also use mixed brass. To avoid issues I neck resize and full length resize. The neck resize seems to get the shoulder where it needs to be. Yes, it's an extra step and it takes time but I have had so much better success and fewer issues. I also take a bore snake with me and drag it through the bore about every 40 rounds or so. It works for me. kwg

My RRA has the Wilde chamber. When we cleaned it last night it really wasn't any worse than any other time so I don't think the state of cleanliness was the main cause. I did measure three of the offending rounds and they all seem to be within tolerances so I am now at the point where I will just have to run a few through the die and see what happens. I have some once fired cases and some brand new cases so I'll try both. Heck, I can try a bunch of stuff because the snow is falling and it is always a long winter up here. I have nothing but time and lots of guns to keep me occupied.

To misquote the song, "How can we miss you when you won't go away?"

More than likely an ammo/sizing problem.

Make sure the buffer spring slams the carrier home on an empty chamber and is in spec/length.

It's near impossible to fire out of battery if everything is in spec. The bolt shortens as it rotates and won't let the pin touch the primer until the lugs are engaged. This is where it's hard to tell if the shell is being chambered fully.

thanks I guess and have a nice day, I had a POS RRA once myself, but even it fired reliably.

hell Jimmy we all have bad days right? Grins there.

Case gauge is the ONLY way to answer the ammo question size wise IMHO. Doesn't matter a flip what the chamber is cut as, Wylde, 5.56, 223, WOA, etc.... if you dont know the headspace and you don't know how much you are sizing, you don't know squat.

I'm still betting both minimal sizing and dirty chamber.