am I thinking about a new one? I can't help it - I've got a trouble free Mathews Outback. Ok, so it's a little long in the tooth, but it's fantastic shooter.
I was in the pro shop yesterday, and there on the wall, was a Bowtech Insanity. Aptly named, as I am going crazy trying to justify spending a grand on something that I don't need. Why? I don't know. I believe it is one of life's mysteries. Anyone else suffering? There is something about a new bow that is even more appealing than a new rifle.

...because it's there, and the "problem" with bows is the same as rifles.

One size will kill all, within reason, in the US. But a varmint rifle sure is nice, as is a good deer rifle, and having an elk rifle is a must for some...Ok, me!

A long ATA bow sure is stable, but but doesn't work as neatly in my ground blind as it does on my open front climber.

So, a compact bow in black would be nice in the blind...and the local 3-D shoots would be nicer with a dedicated 3-D set-up...

Darn, I ended up with ANOTHER bow!

Shoot the Insanity, if it really is better than your Outback, close the deal if you can.

The downside: new bows do not hold the resale values the rifles do...

Exactly.

"The downside: new bows do not hold the resale values the rifles do..."


And this statement is the killer. I think I have made a profit on just about every rifle I've sold. Bows; if I could recoup 50% I'd be a happy camper.

I'm trying to justify the expense, but that is no easy task for a tight old bastid like me.

Yup, hear you.

I buy local when I can and support a very good local shop, but I'll go cheap on the web for an "experiment" bow...the type I may want to shoot a bit and back out of later.

Expense? Take gander at the new 2013 season's offerings of crossbows...I've owned cars that didn't cost that much...

I found myself in that situation with my Mathews switchback as well.

The solution was not free, but better, and less expensive.

I took it all apart, everything, replaced all hardware with stainless steel, Replaced the grips with "torque-less" laminated grips. New cables and string.

Then sent away all the parts for custom film dip. and added the Trijicon night sight.

My switchback is better then any new bow the way it sits right now. The sentimental value of this bow that has killed more game for me then all my other archery equipment combined is meaningful to me.

It's simply got a "cool" factor with the custom film dip and laminated grips.

Way less cost then buying new and yet it's band new again.

It's a lot worse with traditional bows.

That was a very cool post BTW, and thank you for sharing the pictures here. There were some good ideas in there.

I saw that post as well - great pix and great job on the whole rebuild - that bow looks fantastic. You had good reason to do so.

Interestingly enough, i've killed everything I've been after with my compound so far. And most of the stuff I chased with my recurve.

Last compound I bought was in 91. Round wheels. Didn't like the cams back then. Still shooting that bow currently.

Whats the justification? As noted above, there is really only one. Because you want to.

whats wrong with that?

Honestly there isn't much I wouldn't consider taking on with my 223 or 243, given some parameters, so why do we have.... well lets just say I have at least 2 rifles. And leave the rest to the imagination.

We buy a new sleeping bag or tent because we want to try it out. Same with everything else.

Maybe that's why the divorce rate is so high too!

Trying things out can be problematic in some cases!!

Ain't that the truth. I own about 50. Mostly vintage Bears, but a few customs as well.

If I had to pick just two, I'd say the '64 Kodiak and the Palmer double carbon are the best shooters.

I bought my bow on clearance for 300 bucks. A 2012 Bear Mauler with the new E cam.. With my arrows it's shooting 290.. but why is it I look at new bows still?

Boobs - bows, you know you shouldn't be/are caught looking at more...but you do anyway. Just sayin...

A lot of truth..

And both will end up costing you.

Couldn't resist.

one more

Hey, you guys brought it up....

More truth...

Ohhh... I like that, I'd buy me a new bow if she came with it.

I bought my last bow probably 5 years back now I guess (Diamond Black Ice). Does everything I need it to do and seldom if ever look at new bows. I'd probably look more often if they were priced at 500-600, but at 1000+ and accessories I do just fine with what I have and I'm quite content.

Her draw length is about an inch too long lol

If you noticed that.. I have some bad news







































I noticed it as well..

As was said, it's an affliction, I have a dead nuts Mathews Black Max 2 that does most anything a man could with archery tackle, saw that beautiful Montana Whip Longbow and went to rubber-legged chit.

It was on the brown truck headed for Okleehoma in short order.

Gunner

To be fair.. one has wheels on it.

To me that is a difference..

I was trying to keep from drooling over that beautiful rack LMAO. Im a professional bow tuner and cant help but notice those things. Comes with the territory I guess

Enough of a difference to roll ink, eh?

Gunner

After the initial thoughts crossed mind I heard "Her nose is touching the string, DL is to long" Stupid little voices in my head.

I dont get all bent outta shape over a nose not touching the string. That becomes less common with todays short ATA bows. Long as there is a repeatable anchor point, and form and posture are correct, and DL is correct, sling em down range

I have a beautiful Matthews Heli M with drop away rest, 8 point truglo sights but I too pick up another one from time to time, just because! LOL. I do get mine off E-bay or second hand. Why pay retail? Check out this 2013 Bowtech, CPX, insanity! Cheaper then buying the one you saw for $1,000.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-Bowtec..._DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4610beb2dc

That's a great deal if someone gets it for under 600.

I made my mind up to buy a new-to-me bow. I'm looking at another Mathews or Bowtech like the Insanity.

I'm gonna try a one pin sight this time, something like HHA OL-5519




I don't like the damage my Whisker Biscuit was doing to my fletching, so I may go with a Octane--




Anyone have any feedback on these - good or bad? Thanks

Check out the Matthews Chill. Not as powerful as their older monster bows, but at 3.5 pounds with double smooth cams, it's a smokin hot bow. I'd like to get that one pin sight myself but as far as rests go, I will only use a drop away. I like the QAD ultra rest!

Thanks Slide.

I've had my Outback since 05. I find it interesting that all of the technology Mathews shunned back in the day (split limbs, dual cams) is now front and center. I wanted to try something different, and really like the feel of the BT Experience.

I shot the Experience and Insanity side by side the other day, and both are sweet shooting bows. My groups opened up at 40 yards more with the Insanity, most likely due to the 6" brace height. Speed really wasn't an issue, since the Experience tends to shoot faster than advertised. Pro said there is only about 10 fps difference between the 2. Both throw arrows like laser beams.

I'm gonna go the shop this afternoon and shoot one more time. I will give the Chill a look.

I do like the drop away rest, altho I do not like anything tethered to the string. I have a TrapDoor rest that is motion activated dropaway - I love that rest, but not practical for hunting - hence the Hostage Pro.

My eyes aren't what they used to be, so I will probably go with the HHA, with the 4x lens insert. Pricey, but buy once and done.

I just sold my Outback and elected for a new Creed. I have to say I'm loving it (also my first drop away rest QAD) wow I should have switched long ago.

HHA sight - great sight, love it on the range, not so much in the stand. The adjustments are solid and repeatable, the pin is bright. BUT, I see myself as the guy "who forgot to adjust the range" in the stand when the basket buck is coming in...seen it happen on the archery 3-D enough to make me think it's a problem.

Octane rest - used one for two years, like the idea, saves the fletchings, very easy to adjust and center...but starts going out of adjustment as soon as you shoot the first arrow through it. The arrow weight/wear is on the bottom brushes, so the first arrow is wearing them down from the first shot. I was getting about 100-150 shots before I needed to make minor adjustments, but by 450-500 shots, I really needed to look at a new bottom brush. At the time, the brushes were a BE-AT-ACH to find anywhere.

I still keep one in the tackle box as a backup arrow rest for hunting as I know I can set it up, it's foregiving enough to field swap, and I'll be able to continue hunting in about 30 minutes.

I went to a VaporTrail Limbdriver Pro-V, and haven't looked back. Tried the QADs, Drop-Zone, NAP Apache, and have a AAE DOA mounted on a Mathews Z-7. When the DOA fails, it will get replaced with another Pro-V.

If you are looking at the Chill and the price tag, take a look at the Mission Ballistic.

http://missionarchery.com/product/ballistic/

http://mathewsinc.com/product/chill/#specs

Per my Mathews dealer, same bow design, the Mission is a few ounces heavier and similiar speeds at substantial savings. Just a thought...

Don't mess with any of those bristles that "hang on to the arrow" ....you go to an effective zero brace height. That is just wrong and will mess with your head when you get flyers or other weird stuff that you cannot explain begins to happen.

Stop fooling with the "stuff" that is just barely getting you there. Buy a QAD or similar competitive brand. I'm not a brand specific guy so choose the company that trips your trigger. Just use that type/design/ feature set.

It's the serious game in town right now for rests. save the grief and time you will have with anything else.

If you like the Bowtechs, find you an Invasion to shoot. Yes its a '11 or '12 bow, but its the cream of the crop. Speed, forgiveness, tuneability, smooth, balances like no other. For us tuners that prefer Bowtechs, the Invasion is king. The mass weight on the Experience and Insanity were deal killers. I like a bow with some weight, but prefer to put that weight where i need it. Not add more to something thats heavy already to get it to balance. Havent played with one yet but Bowtech just released the Carbon Knight. 3.2#, carbon riser, 7" BH, 330 IBO and MSRP of $849. Should be a tad less actual price

HHA sight - great sight, love it on the range, not so much in the stand. The adjustments are solid and repeatable, the pin is bright. BUT, I see myself as the guy "who forgot to adjust the range" in the stand when the basket buck is coming in...seen it happen on the archery 3-D enough to make me think it's a problem.

Octane rest - used one for two years, like the idea, saves the fletchings, very easy to adjust and center...but starts going out of adjustment as soon as you shoot the first arrow through it. The arrow weight/wear is on the bottom brushes, so the first arrow is wearing them down from the first shot. I was getting about 100-150 shots before I needed to make minor adjustments, but by 450-500 shots, I really needed to look at a new bottom brush. At the time, the brushes were a BE-AT-ACH to find anywhere.

I still keep one in the tackle box as a backup arrow rest for hunting as I know I can set it up, it's foregiving enough to field swap, and I'll be able to continue hunting in about 30 minutes.

I went to a VaporTrail Limbdriver Pro-V, and haven't looked back. Tried the QADs, Drop-Zone, NAP Apache, and have a AAE DOA mounted on a Mathews Z-7. When the DOA fails, it will get replaced with another Pro-V. [/quote]



Thanks - I wanted to try a single pin - and the reason I was interested in the Experience in the first place was the speed, so I am hoping 1 pin should do me to 30, and then hold over to 40-45 yds. I don't think I'd take a shot past 50 - at least not without more practice.

HHA is a good choice to start with IMO.

I prefer a seperate pin for 20 to 50 yards, just works better for me.

My hunting limit is 40 yards, unless it's a tree rat, then fair game - especially if he's annoying.

I practice out to 60 yards for confidence in the short ranges.

That's good advice right there.

You know, before I bought this trijicon single pin the G5 is that the right name? was calling me.

It has two pins, one for 20 yards fixed, and the other adjustable for what ever you want. This idea is brilliant IMO.

Two pins one fixed one adjustable is definitely the best of both worlds

Thanks for all the feedback. Well, I emptied my wallet at the candy store. I checked out the Creed and Chill while there. No Invasions available.

So after shooting several bows, and after telling the pro my life story, I started looking at all the rests on the wall, he says, "here, don't even look at anything else". He hands me a QAD HDX. I said that coincidentally, the boys on the forum recommended the same thing. He said you guys were right.

He only had the HHA OL5010 in stock. That .010 pin is too small and not bright enough for me, so I ordered up the 5019. I've read a lot on the magnifier lens - you can get 2x, 4x, 6x, but holy crap, they are $100 for a frikken lens. I've read not to bother with the 2x, but alot of guys love the 4 and 6x. Any feedback on this would be helpful.
The HHA's sight light, the "blue burst" is frikken longer than the bow. Who thought that up? Do the tiny generic lights fit? The Blue burst light (I believe) is designed to light the fiber optic only, and not the inside of the sight, which I like, but man, is it big.

Gunner - I found my Dad's old Ben Pearson longbow in the basement. That bow has to be 60 years old. Another toy to play with.

Thanks guys for all your input.

I will post pix of the final package soon.

Congrats on the new bow RH, hope ya bleed her many times this fall. <G>

Gunner

Thanks, and to you sir this fall on your trip. Kill a big one. Are you taking the Montana?

Likewise, and no dice on the Montana LB, I'm shooting 6" groups at 20 yards at best with the occasional flyer, not good enough yet with instinctive shooting to risk losing a critter to my green-horn-ness.

My old BM2 will comfortably extend that 20 yard range by 35/40 yards in calm winds.

Gunner

The brand is G-5, the sight is the Optix XR-2 with two pins. I had several of the bigger brother Optix-XR with the three fixed pin and the fourth floating pin. The sight material is magnesium and light weight for the size. They were easy to adjust, and the sight ring is nice and big to see through. I really never used the floating pin, unless playing at the field range.

Downside: it is a big sight and vibrates. The fibers are well protected, but not exposed much for ambient light, you really have to use the G-5 light for the sight. This was my turn-off for the sight. The light is $35-40 a copy, after I broke my third one, I decided the sight/light combo was not doing anything for me. My problem was the rheostat switch, it would pop off or crack internally and not turn the switch. The mounting hole is tiny by design, and I couldn't find a cheaper replacement light that would fit. Just my 2 cents...

I found a company on E-bay that makes a replacement light for the HHA, it's a tiny all brass machined light with a twist on/off switch. I think they were out of Tenessee IIRC. I'll see if I can find the ad/light and reply.

I'd interested in your thoughts on the scope when you get it set up. I've thought about using one, but haven't committed to the investment.

What bow did ya get? Dont recall seeing that. Only the fact that it wasnt an Invasion. As for the rest, great choice. I stayed out of the sight discussion, because im the bad apple in the bunch. You couldnt give me a single pin slider sight for hunting. Much prefer a fixed pin sight. But to each his own. As for the lens, HHA lens are expensive. There is a gentleman on ArcheryTalk that makes lenses. He is an eye doctor/avid archer. He goes by screen name squeekieslayer. His lenses are top notch and about half the cost of the HHA. You will need the lens retainer kit tho as he doesnt carry that. Only makes the lenses. If you decide you dont like the HHA, i strongly suggest the Axcel Armortech. IMO the best fixed pin sight out there.

Well, sorry this reply took so long - work came first.

First off, I am extremely pleased with the bow. Very smooth draw, solid wall, and very quiet and very minimal vibe. I had the bow set to 58# - same as my Mathews. When I first drew back the Experience, I almost dropped my left nut of the floor. I know draw weight is draw weight, but it felt a hell of lot harder to draw. My just my head. I did bury several arrows deep in the target, though. Like laser beams they flew.

Frikken love the QAD HDX. As N2 said, I wish I converted a long time ago. A++.

The HHA - I'm not sure yet. Quality piece of machinery, but maybe I just concerned it's too much to worry about. I have the simplest 3 pin that PSE makes on the Outback, so I not used to it yet. It is, however, very nice to have a clear sight picture. One pin - not a Christmas tree in your sight. Time will tell. I lined everything up by eye, and let a few rip at 10 yards. Almost broke a few nocks. So far, so good. I plan on spending a few hours with it tomorrow.

While at the shop, I picked up some Nockturnals - they seem to be the nock of choice with regard to all the reviews. I'm in my garage, and WTF - one is lit - and I didn't even take it out of the package yet. Anyway, at $10 a pop, I'm exchanging it on Monday.


Thanks for the help and input. AH - if you get the site where they sell the little brass light, please let me know.



Rogue

You chose wisely. Love my Bowtech.

This may or may not matter to you, but Lighted knocks disqualifies for P&Y record book.

Congrats on making a decision (it was tough for me to decide). I opted against lighted knocks because they are illegal in many western states...

Does P&Y make the venison taste better?

Nope! Niether does a lighted knock!

I believe 90% of people don't care about the record books until the time when they have a top 5 or 10 animal. Then that changes things. Of course unless you lie by then it is to late.

Does a sight light disqualify as well?

When I slay the world record breaking P&Y this fall, it will not be with lighted nocks, those are just for the back yard!

Curious about the lighted sight too.

I could be wrong, but my understanding is if it needs a battery or other electrical supply to power it then it disqualifies you.

RogueHunter I would bet that 1% of hunters with animals in the top 10 record books, didn't set out to or ever thought they would be there.

I'd bet you are right.

Spent about 3 hours playing this morning. I'm loving the setup more and more. Had to come into the ac - it's about 94 Deg and about 1000% humidity.

Hey gents.

Well, I'm a little embarressed to admit, but I didn't think twice about having the HHA and not being able to mount a quiver.

I have been busy the last couple of weeks, and finally got around to shopping for a quiver. I usually keep a quiver mounted to the bow until I get to where I'm going, then hang it on a tree, unless, of course, I'm tracking. After much research, I chose the Octane Deadlock Pro. I went to mount the thing this morning, and holy crap, because of the HHA arm, it's a no go. Now, aside from it being 100% my fault for not realizing this, I'm still pissed at HHA for at least not having a disclaimer that their sight will not accept a normal bow mounted quiver set up. I checked google for a solution, and altho there was some old posts, I couldn't find any pix.

I ultimately settled on mounting the quick release bracket on the QAD HDX. I had to reverse the mount, flip the bracket 180 deg, and enlarge the holes to accept the 5/16 x 24 x 1.25 bolts that I had to pickup at the hardware store - unfortunatley, they didn't have Allen screws. Here are a few pix. Thankfully, the Deadlock is pretty adjustable, and I'm happy with the result. I can't shoot the bow where I am, so I'll have to wait until tomorrow to test fire.

I'm glad I shoot traditional/long bow. It has a natural cure for that affliction....sort of. The latest and greatest craze isn't in it's nature but damn if you don't pick up some old soul hidden in the corner every once in awhile that needs a new home.

http://secure.bowhunterssupplystore...argetPage=hha-scope-adapter-bracket.html
I know it says scope adapter brkt but thats a quiver mount for an HHA.
Your sight should have come with two spacers for attaching the quiver

Interesting, thanks. I wish I had that yesterday. I got the 2 spacers, but they were no where near long enough, not to mention that it would have put the arrows in the way of the lever. Rotating it 180 was the only way I could think of to keep it out of the way, and still have a semi - balanced bow - but then again, I could be missing something....

You probably don't own one gun to hunt with, why would you only own one bow?

Multiple bows are good. But Id keep em all the same brand. That way the feel of the grip remains constant. JMO but what do I know. I just tune em and the ol mech shooter never notices the difference between a HOYT , Matthews, Bowtech, PSE etc.

280, do you recommend I do something different than what I did to mount the Deadlock? The spacers were way to short, and I saw no other options available.

Ok, I tried the HHA a few times, and I'm not in love with it. beautiful piece of engineering, but not for me. Anyone interested in it, shoot me a PM.

Never cared for a slider on a hunting rig either. KISS. Fixed pins and a rangefinder trumps a single pin slider every time IMO.

Yup. I learned my lesson. This feels so much better.....

(By the way, for you single pin guys, a like new HHA OL-5519 for sale in classifieds)