I used TSX's for the first time this year on an antelope hunt. Was shooting them out of a 257 WM, running right at 3490. Question is, what kind of terminal effects are you guys seeing? Little hole in, little hole out, not a whole lot of internal damage is what I saw. Not like what I am used to seeing with cup and core bullets. The farthest shot was 246 yards, the other 2 were 150ish. None of them showed the usual reaction to being hit, 2 just stood there for a few seconds and fell over. One ran about 50 yards and fell. All were broadside, double lung hits. My experience with antelope is that they usually pile up on such shots.

My dad was shooting 25 cal 100 Hornandy's at 3140 fps, his results were much more like what I am used to. Critters piled up right there, lots of internal damage and nice exit wound.

Is this just the way TSX's perform for you guys as well. I have a load for this gun with the Hornandy bullets that shoots the same velocity and about the same accuracy. Was wondering if I should just shoot them in the future, since I have about 1000 of them at the house.

Not saying that the bullets failed. They obviously killed the critters. By the time I got another round chambered and back on the critter, they fell over. The reaction and the damage were just not what I am used to seeing on antelope. Just really curious as to what you guys see with these bullets, since this is the first time I have used them.

Bleeding them out,takes longer than crushing them.

I always line up as much bone as possible.........

But is that what you have seen with X's?

Not gonna line up bone on a speed goat if I dont have to.

Want to use this gun for Mulies next year. Wondering if a different bullet is a road I should take?

I don't shoot to be nice and nothing is meaner than smashing [bleep] where it stands,ala breaking bone.

120TSX/7-08,for conversation..............

LINK

Hawk Driver,

That's pretty typical of TSX performance on pronghorns and deer, or even some larger stuff. All bullets work according to the laws of physics. There is no way to get super-deep penetration without making a smaller hole.

One pronghorn buck I shot with a 100-grain TSX from a .257 Weatherby went 150 yards before falling over, which is more than twice as far as I've ever seen a pronghorn go after a behind-the-shoulder hit with any lead-cored bullet. The range was only 250 yards so the bullet was still smokin' right along.

Like you, I prefer to shoot for the ribs behind the shoulder on pronghorn. There isn't enough of that delicious meat to waste a shoulder or two.

My wife and I have shot some pronghorns with TSX's and similar bullets, but have gone back to lead-cored bullets because they kill much quicker with rib shots.

How long does it take a pronghorn to run 150yds? 5-10 seconds?

I shot a "Pronghorn" Sitka Blacktail yesterday. 130TSX through the shoulders crushed that buck. Still replaying that one through my head as it was that good..

JB,
Thanks for the reply. Glad to hear others have had the same experience with them. I am sure they work great on bigger critters that need a tough bullet. They just didnt behave like the bullets I have used in the past on antelope. Will most likely go with the Interlock next year.

I like the Interlock a lot but would not want to be slinging them at 3490fps. If it were me, I'd look at either the Interbond, Accubond or even the good old Nosler Partition with those speeds.

RH

I shot an antelope a few years ago with a 7RM and 160gr X bullet. The shot was a bit over 300 yards, and the bullet knocked the animal to the ground while spinning a 180 (it was a frontal quartering shot). The internal damage was significant. I've shot lots of animals with X/TSX bullets, and I've not had 1 single animal travel over 100 yards after being hit in the vitals. I'm thinking such things are an anomaly...

Will probably use a different rifle for Mulies next year. Most likely the 308 Norma using Accubonds, or the 280AI, or the 260....

My .25-06 with 100gr TSX bullets has laid a bunch of our Alberta mule deer flat with no fuss...

+1 to what JB said, and to your experience...
Ive shot a pile of deer with a .22-250 and a 53 gr. TSX @ 3570fps
Got the same results...they all die right on schedule, but the post mortem looks like you killed them with a drill....
On the good side ( haven't figured this one out yet...)the Bloodshot meat only has layers of blood in the mucous membranes, which can be easily peeled off, very little "bloodshot" in the meat per se...
Ingwe

The 257 tsx combo would be as good as it gets for Mule Deer, but for the lightly built antelope I might give the Berger a try.

Might be too much of a good thing and act like a grenade once inside. Hope to find out soon.

The TSX will ruin less meat if no bone is hit on either.

Um, not exactly. I shot a pronghorn buck a couple of weeks ago with a 140 VLD from a 6.5-06, muzzle velocity 2950, range 172 yards. Put it through the ribs and except for the typical pinprick entrance hole and a 1" exit, the damage was all internal--and massive. And that's pretty typical performance with VLD's on rib shots and "deer-sized" game.

So far I've had nothing but good luck with the 30 cal. and 7mm TSX on whitetail deer. Except for one deer that I shot in the spine, they were all shot behind the shoulders. I'd say the farthest any of them went was 25 yards max.

John,
Good move. The best killer I ever tried in the .257 Weatherby was Uncle Roy's favorite 87gn Hornady load. It was a dynamite killer on deer sized game loaded to 3800fps.

JW

I've never used the 87gr Hornady, I'm pleased as punch with the 100gr Interlock.....I'm thinking this 87gr bullet may be a good load for the grandkids if loaded to 2500-2600 fps?

JW,

Thanks for that info. Have tried the 100 Hornady in the .257 Wby. and it works quite well, but I may have to drop down yet another weight!

To everybody who has shared their experiences with TSX's, thanks very much. Most of the time they will kill deer-sized game very well, especially in larger diameters like 7mm and .30. I was specificaly addressing my experience with the .25 caliber 100-grain TSX--which is considerable, both in the .257 Roberts and .257 Weatherby.

I have seen it do very well, in fact once saw it drop a 3x3 mule deer buck right now with a high lung shot at about 150 yards. But I have also seen some animals not drop so fast with similar shot placement.

The reason for our "disagreements" probably lies in the fact that I have seen a whole lot of game taken with TSX's. Most of the time they kill very well, but sometimes they do not, and when they don't the animal is likely to go a ways, in my experience further than with any other type of bullet.

I have been pacing off how far animals have gone after a solid double-lung hit for many years. Animals hit with Barnes X's (whether the old-style or TSX), Fail Safes, E-Tips or whatever "petal" type bullet have gone an average of just over 50 yards. Those hit with bullets that expand wider, or lose some weight, haven't gone as far.

The bullet that had dropped animals the quickest with lung shots has been the Berger VLD, at around 20 yards. Those averages include lung hits that drop animals instantly--and the highest percentage of instant drops also goes to the VLD, a bullet that normally comes completely apart, but only after penetrating a couple of inches.

I am primarily a meat hunter and do not deliberately aim for the shoulder/spine unless there is some real reason to drop it right there. But I have used that shot on a bunch of animals, and it doesn't take a TSX or other super-bullet to do the trick. I've done it with a bunch of bullets, including such "ordinary" bullets as the Hornady Interlock to the round-nosed Remington Core-Lokt.

All I am doing here is relate my experiences with various bullets. I've seen around 150 animals taken with TSX's, and my statements that it sometimes doesn't kill as quickly as wider-expanding lead cores are based on that experience.

If you are a TSX true believer, who's convinced that exit holes in the hide somehow kill quicker than massive destruction of the lungs, then you are also welcome to your opinion. You're also welcome to shoot shoulder-shoot all the deer you want. But I happen to disagree on both counts, and my disagreement is based on quite a bit of experience.

Please note that I NEVER said TSX's are bad bullets, anwyhere in this thread. They are very fine bullets, and paricularly good for certain jobs, especially on really big game. But I have not found them ideal on deer.

I can't believe that bullet is designed for that kind of velocity............can't imagine it's anything but explosive.

Gotta think that's asking for erratic performance.

MM

If JW says it works, it's because he has shot LOTS of animals with it. He has literally killed thousands.

I think what Mr. Barsness says is very well put-there are better choices for deer sized game than Barnes especially if you expect (or need) a dramatic result. That being said, Barnes kill game very well and do less damage to meat than more fragile bullets or even a medium tough bullet such as a Partition. And anytime that you need to go through an animal at a severe angle (such as hip to shoulder) it helps to have a better penetrator.

Well, I do like two holes for trailing.....and if the bullet fragments on the way through (Partition, Interlock, etc) and makes that trailing job easier, I'm all for that in our thickets.

Had this conversation with a mechanic friend of mine, when he asked why I "wasted" so much meat with my shots on deer.

"Bryan, if I put a round through the engine block, the heart of a car, it's dead, but it'll go a ways, right?"

"Yeah, likely."

"And, if I put one through the radiator, it'll go a ways, too, right?"

"Yeah."

"Well, how far is it going to go, if I blow out the front axle, and tear up the front suspension?"

"Nowhere."

Right.......................

Break stuff, at the shot.

I've killed 10 african plainsgame with the TSX and my experience, except for one, is all bang-flop. These were done with a 140gr 7mm STW at 3395 fps MV and a 168gr in a 300WSM at 3130 fps. Mt Reedbuck, multiple Springboks, Blesboks, Hartebeest, Fallow Deer, Wildebeest, Impala. The only one that ran was the heart/lung shot on the Brindled Gnu. All the others instantly fell over and wiggled. Amazing performance, in my experience.

You learn that early in the Pacific Northwest. Come trudge around in the Cold Jungle and find out why

Very true the frangible will drop them quicker. But even the examples given it is about a ten yard difference.

The Barnes has never given me a major mystery experience, other bullets have. Minor mystery was a Springbok we found parts but no animal. I shot the wrong one and we found it about 30yds away in the wrong direction.

Hawk Driver,

My experience is pretty limited, but we took two Pronghorns with my .257 Wby and 80gr TTSXs loaded to 3715 fps a couple of weeks ago. Mine was the first one. DRT from a neck shot at 275 yards. 'course that's what you would expect from a neck shot. Exit wound was about 2". Partner took three shots at his. First one was at a running 'lope and hit him too far back. Went in in front of hip and exited opposite side close to tailbone. Exit wound was probably the size of a softball. Next shot finished him and it was high through the lungs. Here's how it looked:



I think with enough velocity and bone a TTSX is probably ok but certainly not required for Pronghorn. I woulda used something else but fond a really accurate load with them and wanted to see how they would do. Still wanna try some on pigs ...

John

Barnes has always stated "go one or two steps down in bullet than normal". 100 gr. BT, PT, Horn inter....etc 87 gr. in Barnes is about right.


Kevin

Thank you for this confirmation, Ingwe. My _very_ minimal experience has confirmed this. I shot an antlered whitetail doe earlier this year @ 82 paces with my 7rm running a 140 x at 3080. Gravity took care of the rest (carefully avoiding cliches for JB - <g>)

My considerably experienced partner, who has never shot anything but a 160 partition in his 7rm, immediately called the tsx a meat spoiler. But when the final autopsy was done, blood was pretty much all in the membrane and washed off after a brief scrub with a towel. My partner still swears that he won't hunt with me again until I switch to a partition so he bought me a box of 160's.

So, I've got a box of 160 accubonds (that I bought) and the gifted 160 partitions waiting for lift off. Can't switch to a berger because elk is usually in the offing as well.

When you get the membrane bloodshot x thing figured out please let us know.

Aleth

The tipped tripple shocks will give you the performance that you are used to seeing with cup and core bullets...massive damage. You will usually through away both shoulders...not meat on them anyway.

Last speed goat I shot was at 430 yards with a 223 using a 55g Soft point with a muzzle velocity of 3250fps, he dropped like a toilet seat...behind the shoulder shot. We were shooting p.dogs and had tags. I had left my red wind flag out when we moved the truck forward, and he walked out smelling it. I used that trick on several other occasions.

If you have not had antelope jerky, you are missing a real treat.
A guy needs about 80 lbs of antelolpe jerky to get him through the winter.

Personally I can't fathom shooting lowly deer and pronghorns (on purpose) with $37 a box (per 50) Barnes TSX's... I've certainly done it because I was carrying a rifle so-stoked for elk season, but I can't see any other reason as a matter of choice. Deer, antelope, black bear just aren't that tough and, IME, good old cup and core bullets do a better job of terminating them decisively.

I've used X's, TSX's, TTSX's and Failsafe's on antelope, whitetail deer, mule deer and elk. The true believers are entitled to their opinions but I've seen more problems than positive performance with them, and that's not conjecture...

That has been my experience as well with the 257 Wby and the 100gr Hornady. Incredible performance on deer & hogs. I think I'm up to like 42/44 DRTs on deer. John, I'm getting ready to go and whack a Scimitar Horned Oryx in Texas at my friend's ranch. Going to take 180gr TSXs @ 3000 fps out of my 300 H&H. Will report back on results. jorge

It'll kill an oryx, no doubt.

I killed a scimitar-horned about 4 years ago with my 9.3 BS wildcat and the 250 TSX at about 2650 fps. (The 9.3 BS is the .350 Remington Magnum necked up .008". It duplicates the 9.3x62 in a short case, which means nothing much at all, like most wildcats.) Range was 80 yards and the first shot went just behind the shoulder, broadside. The oryx staggered and almost went down, then got it's stuff together and started to walk off, so I shot it again, basically in the same place. It took off running and disappeared into the semi-open thornbrush.

Trailing it up wasn't tough. Big blood trail. It went about 80 yards and ran into a mesquite and keeled over, obviously running blind, breaking one horn off.

It's an example of one so obviously not valid. And oryx are notoriously hard to kill. The meat damage was minimal, and the meat was also wonderful! Just like gemsbok, as far as I could tell.

IF there was something that killed better than an X,I'd be all over it.

To date,there is not...though I fling other offerings now and again,for the not so gentle reminder..............

I blew an easy shot last year on a smallish whitetail using an 85 grain TSX in a 6mm Remington, too high and too far back missing the spine. I'm primarily a meat hunter and a follow up shot placed above the heart dropped the animal quickly. I didn't loose much meat because of the first poor shot which is why I switched to the TSX. Previous experience with 100 grain GameKings convinced me that I stood to loose a lot of meat on a blown shot. Something to consider. Note that this is open country and a follow up shot is normally available. A GameKing would probably have caused enough damage to at least shock the spine (along with ruining a good part of the best meat on the animal) and put the deer down.

When properly placed deer usually go 20 or 30 yards further before dropping, in my experience, no more than about 60 total, compared to the same placement with a 100 grain GameKing which isn't an issue in croplands. There's no more meat loss with the GameKings if it goes where I intend but I admit that I can still screw up once in a while. It took three seasons after switching to the TSX but there it is.

Gunning for the spine is a new one on me. I shoot meat in the head,though boolit selection is moot in the CNS application.



I'd bet the farm on the .243" 85xX holding it's end up on any situation. BT/DT.................(lots)

Well, your experience with the TSX only trumps mine by about tenfold with change left over.

But like I said, in my limited experience with the 7mm and .30 cal. (mostly .30 cal) the results have been good so far. I was once going to try them in a .243 but decided against it for the reasons brought up in this thread. More than anything else, though, the main reason I use the TSX/TTSX is the boringly outstanding accuracy I get with them.

Yeah, reading that this morning it sounds sorta like that. I aim above the heart which gives me some leeway either way but not THAT much. Perils of late nite posting.

Man this thread now has me thinking. I've been switching everything to the TSX/TTSX including my 338 which I developed a hell of a load with the 210TSX@2930 I plan to use on leopard and PG. Almost booked for 2012 either with my old standby John Sharp or Chifuti. I'm thinking you would not choose the 210 TSX on the cat? jorge

My buddy shot 4 deer last year with the 210gr TTSX out of his .338WM. He hit all of them in the neck. Every one of those deer had a baseball size exit wound (on a neck shot!).

I've shot a handful of deer through the lungs with the 130 TSX in an -06. I've never had a "drill" through, though the holes are not huge. I would say about 1 to 1.5 inch in diameter, all the way through in a straight line with the lungs being jellied up pretty good. The biggest blood trails I have experienced have been from a TSX.

Here's what a .308/150gr TTSX did last year after it hit a calf elk... no, didn't hit anything on the way:

Here's what a 180 Nosler Partition did this year on a 6pt bull elk, traveling through 3' of elk and coming to rest under the hide on the off side:

Brad, I'm sensing an opinion being formed...

There is you, whom I trust, and Dober, Whom I trust, that I know have had failures with a TSX..

I have been fortunate and never had it happen over a score of kills...and I remain a big fan.


That being said I still push Nosler Partitions as one of the few "sure bets" in life....they ALWAYS work...
and are probably the best compromise between penetration and energy transfer that can be had on the market....

Ingwe

I saw my 257 with 100tsx @ 3680 fps roy kill 4 deer in the last week and a half. Two by kids of 12 and 10 years of age. Both boys made shots in the 200-225 yds range and both hit the front shoulder crease (the cartilageish type bony area top of shoulder blade) and both deer were DRT no fuss no muss, and little to no meat waste. I put down a wounded buck for another hunter at a lazered 383 yds and hit it squarely in the front shoulder, small bullet hole in, 1.5" exit both shoulders and spine broke but surprisingly little meat lost. the last deer was a doe the the 7 yo shot at 150 yds, the doe was obviously sick bu on her feet so she got a 100 tsx into her between the shoulder blade as she attemtpted to leave, lost maybe 6-8 oz of meat mostly cause i cut wide around bullet holes.

As said above there was a large amount of blood in the fascia, but little to no blood shot in the meat.

I have yet to see an X hit an animal that made it very far, most have dropped at the shot

The X leaves dead stuff in it's wake,like no other................

That's a difficult premise for many to accept; an old bullet design still holding rank. And the X design is truly a pleasure to deal with... when it works like it was designed to. But John's old idea still has plenty of merit; probably better quality paint if not quite the same pretty shade as some of the newer stuff.

In regards to shooting Pronghorn Antelope behind the shoulder with the .257 WBY & 100 gr. TSX, my experience mirrors yours. I have killed five Antelope with said combination with a starting MV of 3580 from 125 yds to 460 yds and all have reacted as yours. In the end dead though. Great bullet but there are better choices for Antelope.
I have had the same reaction with same rifle shooting thru Antelope with the 117 gr. Hornady round nose bullet. When they are broadside and you shoot them thru the ribs there is not a lot there to stop whatever is going thru them.

I'd like to revisit this.....would this 87gr Hornady make a suitable bullet for kids hunting deer? I imagine behind the shoulder shot is the best target with these?

Jorge regarding Leopard, I have seen them but not shot them, from what I've heard the Nosler is the way to go.

I use the Barnes for most everything but a Leopard would be one exception. It certainly would work but the Nosler will open more and be more likely to result in that thump you want to hear.

A friend shot one last year with a .375 TSX and they had a little more uncertainty than ideal even though it was a spine shot. The cat didn't react like a typical spine shot so they thought they had a bad situation on their hands.

My experience exactly on whitetails using a 25-06 and 7 RM - small entrance, small exit, not much in between.

"Damage" from a 100 TSX from a 25-06 going as fast as it can go - shot at 100 yards.



This shoulder blade is the far blade. This was the second deer of the year. The first one took a 100 TSX through the lungs and lived ~ 2-3 minutes before lying down and finally expiring. Shot another with the 7 RM using a 140 TSX when the TSX first came out - went way too far with minimal damage.


All Nosler, all the time.

Here's some TSX performance ... 6mm/.243" 85g TSX ...

antelope buck shot thru the rib cage at over 400 yards away ...




Vitals ...




Entry wound ...




Exit Wound ...




Bullet from another antelope I shot on the same trip ... she was going almost dead away from me and the bullet went full length penetration on her at 350yds away and was found just under the hide of her front right shoulder...

WGM, nice to see a Game pose where the rifle is not pointed at someones belly. The bolt is open too, why is good gun safety such a rarity?

X's just plain work, others may do it faster but do they have the same reliability factor?

kee-rist...jorge

first thing I noticed too. ouch

we need that zebra picture now....

someone please bring up hydrostatic shock just for the fun of it..

I will admit that TSX that didn't open on the calf elk sucks......Noslers aren't perfect either though. Heres a pic of a 210gr Nosler from a .338 winnie.

Hit a rib in and still in the meat on off shoulder. Thought I would have gotten better expansion....load shoots 2900fps out that rifle and bear was 70yds. Bear probably wasn't as soildly built as the calf elk though

Some rainy day,I'll upload a pile of "kill" footage,with cup/cores zooking left and right.................

From what I've read here and elsewhere, TSX's work great for large animals (elk, moose etc.), but performance is like you describe for most smaller animals. I don't have enough experience with them to say one way or another. I'm sure that will change as I shoot more pigs in central CA where non-lead is the only way to fly. There is an excellent thread on this subject right now in the African forum.

This is one of those never ending tail-chase discussions that in the end, all they prove is that ALL bullets are prone to failure or at least less than standard performance and there will always be folks with a bad experience. With good bullets like the TSX, Partition, AFrame, etc., the instances will be few and far between. I just look for consistency. For example, there is a prominent member of the Dallas Safari Club, you know one of those world-wide hunters with just about every species under their belt, from dik-dik to elephant to whitetail, you name it. He's experimented with all of them. His choice? TSX. That's good enough for me to try. jorge

Anyone drop a tsx on the ground and get the end filled with dirt? Can this cause failure to open? One in my cartridge holder is like this - should I clean it out with a pin or something?

Just got back from an Oryx hunt in Texas where I used 180gr TSXs out of my 300 H&H @ 3000 fps MV. Took a nice (35") Oryx at a lazered 200 yards. Quartering away shot so I placed the bullet abaft the last rib and angled it forward to the opposite shoulder. Complete penetration and about a 40 plus caliber exit hole. LOTS of devastation inside as I suspect the bullet expanded dramatically as it traveresed the paunch and into the vitals. Animal walked about ten yards and dropped. jorge

The TSX can be a great bullet (when it expands) or a schitty one (when not).
Personally I have had great luck with Horandy I-locks, Accubonds and Partitions. Never ever had an issue with them 3 but have had plenty with the TSX.

But just last month you seemed to like them alot??
Maybe I have the wrong poster..at least this guy liked them.
http://www.noslerreloading.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11443

According to my data I have noticed (along with others here) that in bigger calibers there are very little if any expansion issues.
I think somewhere in the 33 cal range the issues stop or are diminished close to zero.

Like I said in the aforementioned post, when thy expand they are hell on game.

Been playing with the Accubond in the same gun. It initially didnt like the AB at all. Tried backing the bullet off the lands, quite a ways actually, and got the accuracy down under an inch. May give these a run next year if they will continue to show some consistent accuracy.

Thanks John. I took a buck a few weeks ago using a 130gr TSX out of an aut6. The good news was he dropped right there. The bad news was I missed. At least I called it a miss. I just hit the shoulder on his left side and the bullet came out the rib cage on the opposite side. I would have rather had a double lung shot as I too am a meat hunter. I didn't notice much blood shot and the exit was a little larger than the entrance. I took him up around the Canyon where G&F prefer's (don't require yet) the use of non-lead ammo.