Although the Montana is shooting a little over .75 with 42.5 grains of RL15, (and I have a few stiffer R15 loads I need to try), I tried Big Game in my M84 7-08 based on JB and others' recommendations, and she shows lots of promise.

I'm running WLR primers at 2.770, which is about .010 off the lands, and Federal once fired brass (I know - but the Fusions have shot so good in this rifle).

Ran a ladder test between 48 and 51.5 grains with 120 NBT's. In a high wind, the ladder essentially showed what I interpret as a pretty wide and forgiving accuracy node.

Essentially, the ladder just had one rung strung a bit by a 15mph wind which was behind me quartering to my left, and gusting to 25+. It was blowing hard pretty steady, with gusts that would make me wait to shoot because they literally were rocking the pickup where I had my redneck shooting bench set up on the tailgate. I let it gust and shot through it except when it was rocking the truck so much I couldn't squeeze off steady.

I shot my ladder at 300 yards.



Instead of the usual steps up the ladder, I got 7 out of 8 shots strung horizontally by gusty wind in a 1.5 inch vertical group at 300. The 8th shot is a little over an inch above the rest.



Even with the wind blowing so hard, 7 of 8 grouped just over 4 inches at 300 - with one left of the group which may be explained by a gust or a hot barrel or operator error (although that shot felt good as far as I could tell.)

From 48 to 50 grains shot a group just over 2 inches.



Basically, I'm thinking that Big Game looks like it has a very forgiving accuracy node, and excellent accuracy potential.

I know shooting in this kind of wind is less precise, but it's either shoot in it or don't shoot around here right now.

A couple of questions:

1. What kind of velocity are y'all seeing with Big Game?

(My best group was kind of mild, but I'm going to load a few a little stiffer. I'm not in the lands, but not far off.

Started to see a little flatter primer at 51.5, but it was a half inch from the 51 load and I'm shooting once fired Federal brass right now, so I can probably push it up with less soft brass.

Don't have a chronograph, but can figure it with some 100 yard groups - but really wondering what folks are seeing around 50 to 51 if I want to settle in around there on a load.)

2. It was probably 85 when I shot, and I didn't piddle around too long letting the barrel cool, although I tried to give it a couple of minutes and walked down to record what I was seeing through my spotter in the middle of the group. Is Big Game temperature sensitive enough that I need to worry about pressure when we get into the upper 90's to low 100's that we'll see in August?

3. Any insights from these results much appreciated!

Headed out to shoot a few more this evening if I can (still blowing like a hurricane, but that's Spring in Texas HC), and will update if I learn some stuff.

Thanks,

DJ

50.5 Big Game in my 22" Ruger LH Hawkeye RP cases I see 3110 FPS
with Nosler BT around .75 - 1". Best powder for velocity and accuracy in my rifle. 120 - 140 gr bullets.

Thanks, KK.

I think I'm in that same ballpark, and if so, I'm more than tickled to get it in a 7-08.

I had a few minutes before dark, and decided to try to answer my own question, and check to see if my accuracy suspicions are well founded.

So, I loaded 3 with 50 right quick and ran out to the hay field.

I shot 3 at 100 and got about an inch group - still in lots of wind, and it was getting so dark I could hardly see the little dot I was shooting at - it's just a little 3/4 inch dot, and the crosshair was pretty well covering it, especially as dark as it was getting.

I shot anyway, and think I slipped up a little high on the 2nd shot, but the group was still an inch or a little under. Equally interesting, it looks like it is between 2 and 3 inches high at 100 - not as high as I expected based on where I was at 300 on the target...

I reckon a picture is worth a thousand words...Top one is almost 3" high, but I got in a little hurry fighting daylight and edged it a little high, I think...



Bottom two felt pretty perfect...and they're just about 2.25 high....



And here's where I was hitting at 300 the day before - not just with the 50 grain shot, but with just about all of them.



Now the 120 NBT is pretty slippery at .417 BC, but it still needs to be zipping along pretty good to shoot that flat...

Even taking the highest 100 yard shot and allowing for a little wind/operator error, I think I've got to be between 3100 and 3200 - maybe closer to 3200, and that's humming for that load...

I'm not jammed in the lands creating any pressure spikes, either.

I need to shoot it some more to verify, but if I'm even close to this velocity with what looks like it's going to be plenty of accuracy for hunting, I'm going to have even more affection for a rifle that I didn't think I could like any better.

I haven't been able to find any velocity information for 120 7mm-08 Big Game loads, so I'm really curious if some guys or maybe even JB will chime in with their experience.

Hunter is shooting crazy good in my 243 Montana, and I'm fixing to buy stock in Ramshot...grin.

DJ

Got an email with some reloading data from Ramshot this evening.

Just requested it today - they're mailing me a loading guide, but emailed some specific info same day.

Great customer service.

No NBT info, but they do have a 120 Barnes listed, which will be next on my list to work up...

7mm-08 Remington
Barrel: 24" ■ Twist: 1-9" ■ Primer: FED 210 ■ Bullet Diameter .284"
Big Game 100 HDY HP 45.7 2,875 50.9 3,194 50,320 2.710
Big Game 120 BAR XBT 44.2 2,756 49.1 3,062 57,850 2.835
Big Game 139 HDY SP 43.2 2,558 48.0 2,842 56,560 2.800
Big Game 140 BAR XBT 41.9 2,528 46.5 2,809 56,550 2.800
Big Game 150 NOS PART 40.1 2,409 44.5 2,677 57,600 2.740
Big Game 160 BAR X 37.3 2,219 41.4 2,465 56,830 2.800
Big Game 160 SIE HPBT 39.2 2,321 43.5 2,579 57,860 2.780
Big Game 175 HDY SP 38.3 2,185 42.5 2,428 57,790 2.750
Hunter 160 SIE HPBT 44.0 2,550 48.0 2,750 58,500 2.800
Hunter 175 SIE SBT 42.0 2,450 46.0 2,650 58,500 2.800

Believe it's time to back up past a quarter mile and refine things a little on the upper end.

DJ

DJ: Looks like its doing good,and I'd be interested to see what the vels are.

Are you running medium rings on that rifle?

No, Bob - I'm running lows, although they are Talley LW's whose lows are closer to some mediums.

There's plenty of clearance for the Leupy 2.5-8, but I put it on before Talley made an extra low.

This rifle hasn't been fast on the average, nor really slow. Just about what I've expected, until now.

I think it's clipping along pretty good with Big Game.

Thanks,

DJ

Further update...

Nosler doesn't list it online, but I got my hands on their manual and they do list a Big Game load with their 120 NBT.

It lines up with exactly what I'm finding:

They list:

48g at 3090
*50g at 3190 (*most accurate, and looks real close to what I'm seeing)
52g at 3262 (max)

I can generally push 120 TTSX's a little harder than 120 NBT's...

Anyone other than me a little me a little distracted at the prospect of an accurate 120 grain pill at 3200ish (maybe crowding 3300!) out of a 7--08 Montana/Faux Ti/Ti and the other great packages that can house it???!!!!!

I'd build a rifle around that.

I'm pretty fired up...grin.

DJ

that'll work! might have to go out and get some to give it a shot...

If this keeps up, I'm going looking for it by the keg!

I've not been safely in this ballpark with the ole Montana.

DJ

Yep, that's a good combo. I'm shooting 120 nbt's at 3140 with Big Game out of my 22" barrel.

That's just great out of a 7-08.

What kind of accuracy are you seeing, and what load are you running to get there?

Thanks,

DJ

M 7-08 is running 3169 with 51.5 of Big Game and shooting in the high.5 low.6 at 100 and right at 1.4 at 200. I found an old FS ( Pre KS ) with an 18" barrel that was EXTREMELY slow with 140's so I took the 18" off and put a 22" take off on it just to try. It shoots 140's almost always under .5 at 2898 fps with H 414. I hunt with the 120. They shoot good perform excellent on light game and I like the velocity.

I got similar results running the 120TTSX(moly) in my 7-08Ti. 52.0gr of BG in a case.

My load is 52 grains and it shoots way under an inch, probably averaging around .6-.7 out of a factory Remington barrel.

I'm pretty sure the Nosler data was generated in a 26" barrel.........Sounds like you've found a stout load none the less!



X-VERMINATOR

Thanks for all the info, guys!

I shot another group of 50g loads at 2.770 COAL and got the same 2 in/1 out group at around an inch, so I seated 3 a quarter turn deeper at right at 2.760 and got a nice little triangle at a little over .6. 2.750 opened up a good bit.

Think I'll try a few at 2.765, but if the 2.760 load is consistent, that will be good enough for me.

May try a few at 51 & 52 grains at 2.760 and see if the extra distance eases pressure since primers were getting a little flatter at 51.5-52, but I honestly don't feel compelled to wring a lot more velocity out of it unless it just offers to perk better there.

Looks like a little playing with seating depth, and I'm going to have a dandy 120 NBT load.

DJ

DJ,

Very good info. I've always stuck with the campfire special of 44.0 R15 and the 120 (NBT or TSX). Gets 2,970 out of my 22" Mtn Guide. I'm very interested in seeing what your loads run through a chronograph, as I am now working up loads for a 84M in 7mm08 also.
Thanks!

I tried 1 each at 48-52 today looking for pressure signs and never saw anything suspicious. Like you 49-51 all showed about the same elevation. Curious to see some chrono results, I think mine has finally bit the dust.

I run 45gr of '15 under 120's but wouldn't mind tryin another powder if I could pick up 150fps?

That extra 150 or so seems to be there.

Load data reflects it, and experience so far seems to bear it out, although I need to play with seating depth with RL15 to see if pressures change enough to run a little more powder. I haven't been able to get up to 45g of RL15 without pressure signs so far, - but with admittedly softer Federal brass.

Still, I'm using the same brass with Big Game.

I know RL15 has been the 'Fire's proven standby for 7-08, so I may find I haven't played with it enough to let it show its stuff, but Big Game sure shows lots to like, as well.

DJ

best i can get out of the 7-08 and RL15 is 3050, my normal loads run 2950 as that is where the accuracy is at. i'll have to give Big Game a try!

My Rem CDL in 7-08 with a 24" tube loves 51 grains of Big Game and the 120 BT. Chrono right at 3200 fps. My favorite antelope load. The bullet performance on those small critters is excellent with much less bloodshot than other BT loads I've used. They are almost equal to the TSX for that!

How far off the lands are y'all finding the 120 NBT/Big Game loads perking the best?

Mine have seemed to tighten up a bit as I backed off from around .010 to .020 off, although I need to run some at .015 and see if that may be just right.

I haven't run the Big Game loads jammed or closer than .010 off, although I did with the 120's and RL 15. They shot nice, but showed pressure signs around 43.5 in my rifle with the softer Federal brass and WLR primers.

I've loaded a few rounds of RL 15 at .020 off and will see how accuracy and pressure acts when I get a chance.

Big Game seemed fine at 51, but the only group I've shot at .020 off rather than .010 was with a 50 grain load (which tightened up to a neat little triangle under .75 from the 2 in/1 out 1 inch group it had been shooting at .010 off), so I need to play with a little more powder and maybe seating depth from .020 to .015 off, and see if it stays accurate or even gets better at 51 & 52, assuming pressure is OK.

I will remind everyone that these are compressed loads which are max or a little more, so I'm going to be careful about pressure as I seat the bullets a little deeper.

I know most of you guys know this very well, but...like always, anyone giving Big Game a whirl, work up slowly and carefully and watch for pressure signs.

DJ

I think it would be worth it, Paul.

I think there's a good chance you might land on an accurate load that zips along at 3150 plus without pushing the envelope too far.

DJ

i've just got to find some and i'll work some loads up and see what's what?

Cabela's has it if you have one handy.

Not too hard to cobble together enough powder, primers & bullets to get to discount code territory...grin.

Let me know how it works for you.

DJ

will do, i have a bass pro not that far away i'll swing by and pick some up to give it a whirl.. need to load up some for my wife's 7-08 anyway..

Anyone got a 22" Remington barrel over a chronograph yet? Mine seems to be showing the most accuracy promise at 52 grains out of a 1st generation Ti. I just set the bullets to mag. length and don't seem to be making any contact with the lands. Still more testing needed as the wind is still howling around here today!

Looks like Ill have to pick up a pound of Big Game and some 120s and give it a whirl!

That's what I'll be loading next, thanks for the great info., DJ!

DJ,
I've been watching this post and seems like a good powder with 120's.

Have you had the chance to do anymore shooting?

If there's anyone else with input please chime in. I just found some of this powder and I want to hear what loads are working.

I picked up some Big Game and like it. Much finer granule size than I'd imagined having only used cylindrical powder before. Flows great and trickles great. Today, in my 20" Rem 7 7mm-08 with the 120 gr V-Max broke 3000fps at 50 grain charge. Working up to 52.5 provided little gain to about 3050. I've not done much else so far. There was slight bolt-lift I think at 52.0 and 52.5. WW brass and CCI 200 primers, 2.830" COAL.
FWIW 49.5, 50, 50.5, 51, 51.5, 52, 52.5 grains Big Game grouped 1.5" at 100 yards with 49.5, 52, 52.5 touching.

Slow barrel, was getting about 2720 at 43.5 gr Varget (book MAX plus 2gr) with the Hornady 139 gr BTSP. For reference, this barrel when using 45.0 gr Varget (book MAX plus 1.3) is producing 2920 with the V-max and 2890 using 120 gr NBT, which seems an accurate charge (5/8-3/4")with both bullets, if that's helpful at all.

As they say - don't try this at home. I am re-evaluating what I want to accomplish here but it does seem 3000 with the 120s was the initial goal.... OT

Thanks,

That's good to know. What happened with the 50 to 51.5 grains?
How close where they?
I saw that most found good accuracy at 50 grains.

Well, I shot 120 NBTs and TTSXs today with both Big Game and R-15. I only went up to 51.5 grains Big Game with both bullets, got 3,075 with the BT's and 3,090 with the TTSX's and both shot right at 1.0 with a 22" barrel. Got 2,990 @ 49.5 grains/NBT, and 3,025 @ 50.5 grains.

44 grains R-15 was more accurate in my rifle, around .75 but only 2,950 on the chrono with the NBTs. Got similar accuracy and 2,975 at 44.5.

Hodgdon's data shows 43.5 as their max with the 139gr Hornady SP, and 45gr. with the Nosler 120 BT. Not sure what your source for data is, but if nothing else, it shows the disparity among manufacturers about what "max" is.

I'm going to try some Big Game for the 120 BT, as I found a keeper for the 139gr Hornady with 44grs. Varget. Seated .010 off the lands, 3 shots into one hole just over caliber wide by .540 tall edge to edge, cranking along at ~2950. Haven't been able to get much better than an inch with the 120's and Varget, and I'm not going to drop the speed below 3k by reducing the load below where I already have.

The Big Game looks to have good velocity promise, hopefully I can find the accuracy with it as well.

Yah - I think Hodgdon's Varget data is why I went to those loads. The reference for 41.5 max with 139 BTSPs and 43.7 max with 120 V-Maxs was the Hornady manual Sixth Edition.


-------------------------------------

Today, tried more Big Game and CCI 200 primers, WW brass and 120 gr V-Max, 50.0 grains (3000 FPS) and 50.2 grains (3025 FPS) from a 20" barrel.

Finally have another update, and pleased to report more good results with Big Game and 120 NBT's.

I've played a bit more over the last couple of weeks, finding MOA or a little less with a variety of charges and seating depths - but I have never been able to shoot where wind wasn't 10-15mph, so I really haven't felt like I was able to refine things too much and draw firm conclusions.

Around 50 grains seemed to be the most consistent accuracy sweet spot, and I saw just a hint of pressure sign in primers and brass as I played around in the 51 to 52 range, so I decided to play with seating depth a little on charges around 50 or so.

Yesterday afternoon, the wind finally laid to almost nothing, so I ran down to the hay field to see if I could confirm my suspicions about the best load.

I shot 3 groups in pretty rapid succession, and saw around .75 with 48.5 - 49.5, and a group a little further off the lands opened up at 50 grains.

I was shooting pretty fast, and it was pretty warm, and the barrel was plenty hot on the last group - so I suspected barrel heat may have distorted my last group a little....so I pulled the Montana 243 out and plinked a little with some factory Hornady 58's - shot a fouler and then 3 at around .5.

The wind was still next to nothing, so I decided to go a little slower on the last group since I suspected it was real close to the best combo of powder and seating depth based on what I'd figured so far.

The 7-08 barrel had cooled, so I decided to alternate between it and the 243 to slow myself down and stay in a groove on the last group.

I felt pretty dialed in, and felt operator error was pretty minimal this evening - even off the tailgate of the old Ford.

No better than these Montanas will shoot...grin...I guess I'll have to settle for this and just make do with this load...grin.







More for scale than trying to measure the group real precisely...



But it's pretty tight...



I'm pretty confident this is no fluke. I have been around .6 -.75 a bunch with 50g and similar seating depths, and this group lands smack in the middle of the others I've shot.

Also, shot this group with Remington once fired brass since I have a little more confidence in it than the Federal, but the Federal was shooting it well enough in the windy conditions and to same POI.

Just finally got a chance to shoot with no wind to see what it could really do.

I'm pretty tickled, to say the least.

No chronograph, but I'm 2.5" high at 100 and around 1.75-2" low at 300, so I think velocity is pushing 3200.

Haven't touched the scope through load development, but will play with it now and zero it where I want and stretch it out a little to get to know it.

DJ

That is awesome. Can't think of a better lil package than that. Ive been meaning to pick up some of that powder to try. Thanks for all the info.

Side note whats your thoughts on a faux ti vs. kimber Since your runnin them side by side and all. I have a 8400 WSM but may be trading it for a 708 mountain rifle. I really like the Montana but think I'd rather have it in a smaller version? Where I live and what I'll do with a rifle I just don't need a bunch of bigger guns. That's today's idea anyway?

Thanks, Kaleb.

I really like the Faux Ti's.

I have a 7-08 and a 243 Faux Ti that are just outstanding, but I haven't tried anything that I like better than an 84M in a Montana, although the 7-08 and 243 Ti's may be less finicky.

Stock, overall handling, trigger, and weight on 84M all get a slight nod over the Faux Ti's, IMHO.

I also like the 8400, but the 84M is the near perfect package.

This is the target from the Montana 243 I was shooting alongside my 7-08 yesterday - and I was shooting a bigger bull and not concentrating nearly as hard to be perfect on every shot with it - just shooting it to kill a minute between 7-08 shots and staying zoned in since they are twins...well, except for scopes.

Shot the first 4 in a hurry, then alternated - but still not a bad 5 shot group with factory ammo...out of a rifle that shoots a lot of stuff good.

Shot 5 a little under .9, IIRC.

The bottom shot was a fouler...



Really like the Faux Ti's, but have to give the 84M's a little edge.

DJ

Thanks for the report. I really would like a 84M in 223 and 243. I really like the 8400 but just don't ever shoot it?

You do anything to the Montana (bedding, re-crown, etc), or is it as it came out of the box? Will be shooting my new MT this weekend.

Not on mine. Bought them all used off the 'Fire from known honest sellers.

Only one not as out of the box is the 7-08, which Dick had accurized at HCR before I bought it from him.

I hear a dab around the recoil lug can be a good thing if there are issues.

DJ

Thx. I'm going to skim bed mine just because... I do that, or a full bedding job, on all rifles, I see no reason not to.

DJ,

How far off the lands where you to get that OAL

Around .015...

DJ

I don't think I'll be able to load anywhere near the lands on my 338 Fed Montana. Mag box limits me to 2.82 and my early measurements show 2.84 to 3+ required to get to the lands depending on the bullet.

DJTex, I've read about Montanas being more difficult to shoot from the bench due to the lightweight. I'm taking mine out for the first time tomorrow. Have you found you need to apply any particular technique to maintain accuracy? When shooting off a bench, I shoot my other somewhat lighter rifles off a bipod with a fair amount pressure into my shoulder with my right hand, and the left hand around a small bag under the rear of the stock. Has worked fine. Obviously whatever you are doing works.

You have to honor magazine constraints, but I don't think you'll have any problems.

For a hunting rifle, I don't want my load jammed, anyway. Feed, extraction and function is always first - and even if mag constraints allow it, I don't want to risk leaving a bullet and a mess of powder behind when I extract a bullet in a hunting situation. Plus, my Montana definitely showed more pressure in the lands.

On bench technique, I have found a couple of things on the Montanas.

1. Control muzzle jump...They are light enough that you have to watch it. I reach around my front bag and hold the forearm with my left hand - can't leave it on the rear bag like with heavier rifles, IME. Plus, that's how I'll hold it in the field, so POI and how it shoots translates better from bench to field positions.

2. A front bag can be too hard. I fold a gunsock and lay it on the front bag under the forearm. For some reason, a little cushion helps, even though it may seem less precise. I think it is again a muzzle jump thing.

3. A rifle this light is very unforgiving of any mistake in bench technique. Trigger squeeze, breathing, no flinch - all needs to be perfect.

4. A light trigger really helps with good shooting technique....The Montana trigger will normally adjust down plenty light, and remain safe. Even if you like a 3lb trigger on your hunting rifle, take it down to 2 or a little under for load workup. You can always ease it back up if you need to after you develop your loads, although I leave it around 2.

5. Barrel heat may bite you if you shoot very many groups in a row....I shoot 3 shot groups and walk down and mark my target and let the barrel cool in between. On hot days, I think the third and fourth and fifth groups benefit from more barrel cooling time. Take along another rifle.

I'll shoot the 3 shot groups quickly, although if the barrel is warm (like the fourth or fifth groups I shoot), I may give it a minute between shots.

This group was the fourth I shot. I shot the first 3 - saw the last one open up from barrel heat - so I pulled out my 243 and shot 4, walked down, then shot my last 7-08 group alternating between the 243 and the 7-08. Maybe a minute or two between shots.



I don't worry about it much on groups one or two, but that light barrel may heat up enough to lie to you on later groups if you keep blazing away.

Hope that helps.

DJ

DJ,

Would love to see how it does with the 120 TSX and TTSX...

Regards

Marty,

They're next...Have a feeling they'll shoot.

DJ

Good gosh DJ...

I think you're on to something there...

I'm waiting on my local source to get a pound of that in for me. I was thinking about trying to work up a load with W760, which has a very similar burn rate, but the temp sensitivity concerns me. I might have to try and replace my Supreme 780 load for 95gr. bullets in .243 with Hunter if this works well.

Ball powder metering with Extreme stick powder temp stability, whats not to like?

In my Sako A7 I worked up to 3121 fps with Big Game I stopped there but still had no pressure signs.

As of yesterday I found my load of Big Game under a 120 NBT at 3060 fps SD=7 and five shots went .51". I had walk away from the bench after that. I am good to go.

The only variable hanging out there is temperature. I did this work-up at 73 degrees. Would like to see what it does at over 90.

That is outstanding!

SD of 7...wow.

I think you'll be in good shape when things warm up. I shot some maxish loads at 90 plus degrees, and all was well - but check it for sure at your elevation/temp/etc in your rifle, of course.

What charge did you settle on - seems 50ish is a pretty sweet spot from what I can see so far for the chronograph-less old timer low tech loaders...grin.

I really gotta get one...

DJ

Well, I'll keep trying with Big Game, but so far in my rifle, Varget seems to be more accurate and only 60 fps slower. I'm getting about 3075 with both 120 NBTs and TTSXs, and 3010 with Varget, and five under an inch.

Hey DJ, I just went back and read your first post, and noticed you were 0.010" off the lands with the 120 NBT in a Montana.

How's that square with your magazine length? Closest I can get with mine and still fit the magazine is 0.065" off the lands, and that's with a minimum SAAMI throat.

Did you modify your mag??

I guess they're all different, but I was able to get into the lands with NBT's at max magazine length.

I was a little surprised - mine may have a little shorter throat than many, but I'm able to get to the lands with both my 7-08 and 243 Montanas and still get good feeding and magazine fit.

DJ

OK, thanks, ya bug-hole shooting so-and-so. I'm gonna have a special thin-walled titanium mag box built up......

Grin...

If it's any consolation, they both seem very willing to shoot without kissing the lands.

I thought I was kissing with the 243, and started seeing pressure with mild loads, so I bumped them down a little and got a big accuracy node on ladder work and about a .75 or so group on the only one where I loaded 3.

You can always run Barnes if mag constraints make you jump, I reckon.

Will be interesting in your mag box mods when you get them done.

DJ

I was only joking about the mag. I'm happy, it'll put five into an inch with the NBTs which is probably what I'll be hunting with. I've just gotta think it'd do a little better closer to the lands. Still puzzles the sh** out of me that anyone designs a $1,000 rifle with a "match grade" barrel and a magazine length that won't let hand-loaders get closer to the lands.

Around here, magazine mods are plenty common...grin.

As to design where lands are out of reach...Liability is the only explanation I can think of which makes sense...

DJ

Well, on the 8400's you can reach the lands, so I don't think that's it.

How would you mod your mag if you had one like mine?

Mag length is the only complaint I have with my Montana. And given the way it's shooting, now that I've figured it out somewhat, it's a very minor complaint.

DJ,

Saw in another post that you've tried the TTSX. Results???

Thanks

Never moved the die from OAL which shot well with the NBT, loaded the same charge (50 grains) of Big Game (just to see what it would do, and if I could basically run same OAL with both bullets - although they are not identical OAL, should be pretty close to the same on the Ogive), and it shot over .5 but under .75.

Could hunt with it just like that, although I may play with OAL a bit and even run a little more powder since the TTSX's like to be pushed and I had no pressure signs at 50.

But - how handy would it be to throw and go with both bullets with a powder that meters as well as Big Game???? Grin...

IME, the TTSX's will have less pressure than a NBT - reckon it must be bearing surface...

DJ

It will be very interesting to see the results when you get them over a chronograph! I just bought a big jug of R15 but this Big Game might get a go in my 7-08's. One just might like the BG better...

52BG and a 700 MR 22" does 3164, kimber 22" will do a bit better

do like BG...but no worries about RL15 in the inventory...:)

DJ,

I've been watched this topic and decided to give Big Game a try.

50gr Big Game, 120NBT, WLR primer, 2.855 OAL.
Marlin XS7 22" barrel

UNBLIEVABLE!!!!!! 3 shots + 100yrds = 1 HOLE

Curious as to what load you were running before?

I had only loaded reduced loads for my 9yr old. After I saw him kill 4 deer with his in the past two years I decided to buy myself one and give it a try.

Funny thing is, I never thought the first trip to the range would give results like this.....

I have rifles that cost a lot more but this one is just as accurate.

Bump

DJ,



Have you tried anymore TTSX's?

If so, what was your outcome?

DJ, I have but one question, why are you running WLR primers, one of the hottest primers out there? Im willing to bet youd shrink your groups if you tried CCIBR or 9 1/2 primers.

I was wondering the same thing, those groups are just too damn big.

No better than I can shoot, I don't know if I'd see much difference...grin.

I just ran the WLR's because I have a bunch of them. They may have something to do with seeing such velocity without a max load, though.

I may play with some others when I can get them.

It's nearly too hot to work up loads around here right now.

You boys in the cool will have to continue the research for a while, I reckon.

DJ

Thought I'd bring this one back to the top again. Ran 52grs. today in Virgin RP brass with WLR primers. At 125 yards, over my backpack, 10-15 MPH wind I hung a dimed size three shot group out of my first genertion Ti.

Almost feel bad that I still have two loads to shoot with R15, it's like I'm wasting bullets or something.

Loading some up tonight with NBT and TSX, hope to shoot for groups and crony this Sunday..

Question for you guys as I don't have any load software.

Running the 120 NBT at 3,100, with the rifle sighted in 2" high at 100 yards, what is the drop at 300 and 400 yards?

Does it make much of a difference in drop vs. 3,000 fps?

I did not know what elevation you wanted, not much difference out to 500 yards.

I ran the info at 3000 feet elevation.

120 grain Nosler B/T BC of .417
Speed 3100 fps.

2" high at 100 yards with a zero at 234 yards.
300 yards -4.24
350 yards -9.07
400 yards -15.43

Same load at 3000 fps.
2' high at 100 yards with a zero at 225 yards.
300 Yards -5.15
350 yards -10.45
400 yards -17.39

Then I checked the elevation at 1000 feet with the 3000 fps. load at 400 yards it was down -17.88 not much difference at 400 yards.

Hope this was a help to you.

Happy Hunting

Randy,
Thanks!

This is a good place for such info.

Well, it looks like I'll be right between those. My results from a 22" barrel:

50.0 Big Game with the 120 NBT, average of 3,023 fps.

50.0 Big Game with the 120 TSX, average of 3,042 fps

50.0 Big Game with the 120 TTSX, avg 3,029 fps.

Chronograph was 12' from muzzle.

Going back through my records, these averaged less than 100 fps more than my standard load of the 120 TSX with 44.0 RL15.

With 49.7gr I am getting ~3150 with the 120 NBT, out of a 22" tube.

My gunsmith's chronograph must be off. All of my loads I shot yesterday were 100-200 fps off the book and/or other shooters speeds...

Another brief update...Wind finally laid after a little rain today, and I shot a group with 50g of Big Game and 120 TTSX. I left the die exactly where it was with the good 120 NBT load, and I shot a half inch 3 shot group.

I only shot 3. They were about 3" high, so I spun her down an inch and half and stuffed the other 4 I had loaded in the magazine.

I'll try to load some more tonight since that is the second sub .75 group I've shot with the TTSX's at this COAL with 50g of Big Game. It does like the Rem brass better than the Federal. At this point, I think I'm just going to kill stuff with them except for a long range session to double check POI on a few long pokes.

Still no pressure, and I may even push another grain or two under some TTSX's when I have a chance, but I won't chafe too much if I have to run these for as long as the barrel lasts. I've got room in the mag to chase the lands over time, and enough cushion in the load to add powder if that's what it takes to keep her shooting for a few thousand rounds.

Rifle life doesn't get much better...Now if I can find a buck that figured out how to grow an over-sized rack despite the drought...grin.

DJ

I ran a 120gr. BT into a deer last night at about 40 yards...starting to think that the TTSX is a better option.

Because ...

Nothing hard and fast yet just a thought. Shot wasn't great but it was what I had at the time. Deer was nearly facing me, bullet entered just behind onside shoulder, took out back of one lung, destroyed liver, and made it into the stomach (which was really a sack of acorns). A tiny piece of the core made it into the off side ham, jacket was found in the stomach. I'm thinking a TTSX would have probably exited and gave a better blood trail, BT gave me a couple of drops of blood at initial location and nothing else until I found the deer. I of course applied the BT completely incorrectly (Pushing it had and hitting a close deer marginally) and it still killed the deer so I can't complain, but I would have liked more blood on the ground. Sample of one hasn't soured me on them yet though...

Is the 120 gr NBT inappropriate for elk?

P

Probably not if applied correctly...

Bi-Man, how was the blood when you field dressed it?

No doubt, had that happen using an M70 Fwt and a 140 BTSP Sierra in the 90s in Tensas Swamp here - 35 yd shot, deer made it about 40 yds, SAME thing in Colorado on a Mulie, 270/150 Partition, around 275 yd shot, deer also went about 40 yds....no exit, but very complete otherwise....stem to stern.

I'd be Very happy running a 120 Barnes on ANYTHING to about 350 yds or so, and a 140 Accubond on most all else, save very LR shooting, a 162 Amax might be nice.

I'm just starting to load for a 7mm08. The local Cabelas has Varget but no Hunter.

P

It's a tough little pill. IIRC Dogzapper has taken elk with it.

And moose...

120 NBT = Can; 120 TSX = Will; 140/150 TSX = MBS

Help me out with what this means.

P

I,m guessing MBS = Moose Back Strap

MBS= Mo' Better, Still


I think I've drilled 4 200 grain NBTs into broadside moose- chest shots- with none exiting; these being sent by a 340 Weatherby. I also have a fair collection of copper which various moose have stopped. Our northern moose seem to be constructed with more Kevlar than most NA animals, which is basis for that post. I know they break the ornamental ash trees and play havoc in traffic. THey are not an animal which is as inclined to run off when they've been hit as some apparently do. Even so, they still deserve quick and decisive dispatch IMO. I rank the 120 NBT along with the 223 in the 'can' division. There are better, more certain ways to do the job.

Got to bump this one up a bit....hope no one minds.

So for you guys running Big Game and the 120's, have you been able to shoot in fairly different temperatures to assess if this powder is temp sensitive in a negative way? Forgive me, for I ask here before really researching the history of Big Game Powder.

Good thread and I will be giving this powder a go with 120 TTSX bullets when things warm up here (spring).

I worked up to 52 in 90 degree heat. Never saw any issues there and didn't see anything unusual when hunting in the 40's. Hasn't gotten much colder then that around here yet. Big Game is supposed to be as temp. insensitive as anything else out there today.

Thanks for your input!

Hi folks. Just wanted to add some data. Shot 51, 51.5, and 52 grains of Big Game under 120 NBT's today, and chrono'd the result.

51 -- 3080 fps
51.5 -- 3125 fps
52 -- 3160 fps

This from a stock Remington 22" barrel. I didn't see any pressure signs. Accuracy was ok but that'll be addressed separately anyway.

Very impressed with the stuff so far. Teasing 3200 fps is pretty amazing stuff from a 7-08! Thanks for the great thread!

Tikka T3 Lite Stainless, 51.5 grains BG, 120 NBT, 2.805", Rem brass, CCI 200 primers, 5 shots into .308".





P

up

Wondering how the TAC stacks up vs Big Game, all else the same?

This

has anyone ran 'big game
with a 162 a-max out of curiosity?

Up

When's the last time anyone saw Big Game for sale?

I got an 8-lb jug a couple of weeks ago.






P

Humm...jealous.

I had some fun with Big Game and 120 BTs from a couple of Tikkas. Interesting what the difference between CCI200 and WLRM made.

Standard stainless T3





Now the Superlite





Not bad.




P

A case full of ball liked the hotter primer. I believe a CCI 250 would have tightened things up as well.

Up

These bullets, this powder! As good as it gets. With RL 15 not too far behind.

We lost a good guy when DJTex quit posting. Always enjoyed his posts.

Never could get BG to perform in accuracy with 120's like RL-15.

300 yd group with my Tikka SL