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Thanks for the report. I really would like a 84M in 223 and 243. I really like the 8400 but just don't ever shoot it?
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Campfire Outfitter
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You do anything to the Montana (bedding, re-crown, etc), or is it as it came out of the box? Will be shooting my new MT this weekend.
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Joined: Aug 2005
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OP
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Not on mine. Bought them all used off the 'Fire from known honest sellers.
Only one not as out of the box is the 7-08, which Dick had accurized at HCR before I bought it from him.
I hear a dab around the recoil lug can be a good thing if there are issues.
DJ
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Thx. I'm going to skim bed mine just because... I do that, or a full bedding job, on all rifles, I see no reason not to.
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 196
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Finally have another update, and pleased to report more good results with Big Game and 120 NBT's. I've played a bit more over the last couple of weeks, finding MOA or a little less with a variety of charges and seating depths - but I have never been able to shoot where wind wasn't 10-15mph, so I really haven't felt like I was able to refine things too much and draw firm conclusions. Around 50 grains seemed to be the most consistent accuracy sweet spot, and I saw just a hint of pressure sign in primers and brass as I played around in the 51 to 52 range, so I decided to play with seating depth a little on charges around 50 or so. Yesterday afternoon, the wind finally laid to almost nothing, so I ran down to the hay field to see if I could confirm my suspicions about the best load. I shot 3 groups in pretty rapid succession, and saw around .75 with 48.5 - 49.5, and a group a little further off the lands opened up at 50 grains. I was shooting pretty fast, and it was pretty warm, and the barrel was plenty hot on the last group - so I suspected barrel heat may have distorted my last group a little....so I pulled the Montana 243 out and plinked a little with some factory Hornady 58's - shot a fouler and then 3 at around .5. The wind was still next to nothing, so I decided to go a little slower on the last group since I suspected it was real close to the best combo of powder and seating depth based on what I'd figured so far. The 7-08 barrel had cooled, so I decided to alternate between it and the 243 to slow myself down and stay in a groove on the last group. I felt pretty dialed in, and felt operator error was pretty minimal this evening - even off the tailgate of the old Ford. No better than these Montanas will shoot...grin...I guess I'll have to settle for this and just make do with this load...grin. ![[Linked Image]](http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c150/djtex/Montana%207-08%20Load%20Work%20Targets/Kimber7-08LoadDevelopment-Groups083.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c150/djtex/Montana%207-08%20Load%20Work%20Targets/Kimber7-08LoadDevelopment-Groups122.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c150/djtex/Montana%207-08%20Load%20Work%20Targets/Kimber7-08LoadDevelopment-Groups123.jpg) More for scale than trying to measure the group real precisely... ![[Linked Image]](http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c150/djtex/Montana%207-08%20Load%20Work%20Targets/Kimber7-08LoadDevelopment-Groups096.jpg) But it's pretty tight... ![[Linked Image]](http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c150/djtex/Montana%207-08%20Load%20Work%20Targets/Kimber7-08LoadDevelopment-Groups103.jpg) I'm pretty confident this is no fluke. I have been around .6 -.75 a bunch with 50g and similar seating depths, and this group lands smack in the middle of the others I've shot. Also, shot this group with Remington once fired brass since I have a little more confidence in it than the Federal, but the Federal was shooting it well enough in the windy conditions and to same POI. Just finally got a chance to shoot with no wind to see what it could really do. I'm pretty tickled, to say the least. No chronograph, but I'm 2.5" high at 100 and around 1.75-2" low at 300, so I think velocity is pushing 3200. Haven't touched the scope through load development, but will play with it now and zero it where I want and stretch it out a little to get to know it. DJ DJ, How far off the lands where you to get that OAL
'Keep your powder dry'
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I don't think I'll be able to load anywhere near the lands on my 338 Fed Montana. Mag box limits me to 2.82 and my early measurements show 2.84 to 3+ required to get to the lands depending on the bullet.
DJTex, I've read about Montanas being more difficult to shoot from the bench due to the lightweight. I'm taking mine out for the first time tomorrow. Have you found you need to apply any particular technique to maintain accuracy? When shooting off a bench, I shoot my other somewhat lighter rifles off a bipod with a fair amount pressure into my shoulder with my right hand, and the left hand around a small bag under the rear of the stock. Has worked fine. Obviously whatever you are doing works.
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You have to honor magazine constraints, but I don't think you'll have any problems. For a hunting rifle, I don't want my load jammed, anyway. Feed, extraction and function is always first - and even if mag constraints allow it, I don't want to risk leaving a bullet and a mess of powder behind when I extract a bullet in a hunting situation. Plus, my Montana definitely showed more pressure in the lands. On bench technique, I have found a couple of things on the Montanas. 1. Control muzzle jump...They are light enough that you have to watch it. I reach around my front bag and hold the forearm with my left hand - can't leave it on the rear bag like with heavier rifles, IME. Plus, that's how I'll hold it in the field, so POI and how it shoots translates better from bench to field positions. 2. A front bag can be too hard. I fold a gunsock and lay it on the front bag under the forearm. For some reason, a little cushion helps, even though it may seem less precise. I think it is again a muzzle jump thing. 3. A rifle this light is very unforgiving of any mistake in bench technique. Trigger squeeze, breathing, no flinch - all needs to be perfect. 4. A light trigger really helps with good shooting technique....The Montana trigger will normally adjust down plenty light, and remain safe. Even if you like a 3lb trigger on your hunting rifle, take it down to 2 or a little under for load workup. You can always ease it back up if you need to after you develop your loads, although I leave it around 2. 5. Barrel heat may bite you if you shoot very many groups in a row....I shoot 3 shot groups and walk down and mark my target and let the barrel cool in between. On hot days, I think the third and fourth and fifth groups benefit from more barrel cooling time. Take along another rifle. I'll shoot the 3 shot groups quickly, although if the barrel is warm (like the fourth or fifth groups I shoot), I may give it a minute between shots. This group was the fourth I shot. I shot the first 3 - saw the last one open up from barrel heat - so I pulled out my 243 and shot 4, walked down, then shot my last 7-08 group alternating between the 243 and the 7-08. Maybe a minute or two between shots. I don't worry about it much on groups one or two, but that light barrel may heat up enough to lie to you on later groups if you keep blazing away. Hope that helps. DJ
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DJ,
Would love to see how it does with the 120 TSX and TTSX...
Regards
“There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot.”
ALDO LEOPOLD
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DJ,
Would love to see how it does with the 120 TSX and TTSX...
Regards Marty, They're next...Have a feeling they'll shoot. DJ
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,648
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Good gosh DJ...
I think you're on to something there...
- Greg
Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 753
Campfire Regular
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I'm waiting on my local source to get a pound of that in for me. I was thinking about trying to work up a load with W760, which has a very similar burn rate, but the temp sensitivity concerns me. I might have to try and replace my Supreme 780 load for 95gr. bullets in .243 with Hunter if this works well.
Ball powder metering with Extreme stick powder temp stability, whats not to like?
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 679
Campfire Regular
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In my Sako A7 I worked up to 3121 fps with Big Game I stopped there but still had no pressure signs.
As of yesterday I found my load of Big Game under a 120 NBT at 3060 fps SD=7 and five shots went .51". I had walk away from the bench after that. I am good to go.
The only variable hanging out there is temperature. I did this work-up at 73 degrees. Would like to see what it does at over 90.
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OP
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That is outstanding!
SD of 7...wow.
I think you'll be in good shape when things warm up. I shot some maxish loads at 90 plus degrees, and all was well - but check it for sure at your elevation/temp/etc in your rifle, of course.
What charge did you settle on - seems 50ish is a pretty sweet spot from what I can see so far for the chronograph-less old timer low tech loaders...grin.
I really gotta get one...
DJ
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,049
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
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Well, I'll keep trying with Big Game, but so far in my rifle, Varget seems to be more accurate and only 60 fps slower. I'm getting about 3075 with both 120 NBTs and TTSXs, and 3010 with Varget, and five under an inch.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Hey DJ, I just went back and read your first post, and noticed you were 0.010" off the lands with the 120 NBT in a Montana.
How's that square with your magazine length? Closest I can get with mine and still fit the magazine is 0.065" off the lands, and that's with a minimum SAAMI throat.
Did you modify your mag??
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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I guess they're all different, but I was able to get into the lands with NBT's at max magazine length.
I was a little surprised - mine may have a little shorter throat than many, but I'm able to get to the lands with both my 7-08 and 243 Montanas and still get good feeding and magazine fit.
DJ
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,049
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
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OK, thanks, ya bug-hole shooting so-and-so. I'm gonna have a special thin-walled titanium mag box built up......
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Grin...
If it's any consolation, they both seem very willing to shoot without kissing the lands.
I thought I was kissing with the 243, and started seeing pressure with mild loads, so I bumped them down a little and got a big accuracy node on ladder work and about a .75 or so group on the only one where I loaded 3.
You can always run Barnes if mag constraints make you jump, I reckon.
Will be interesting in your mag box mods when you get them done.
DJ
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Will be interesting in your mag box mods when you get them done.
DJ I was only joking about the mag. I'm happy, it'll put five into an inch with the NBTs which is probably what I'll be hunting with. I've just gotta think it'd do a little better closer to the lands. Still puzzles the sh** out of me that anyone designs a $1,000 rifle with a "match grade" barrel and a magazine length that won't let hand-loaders get closer to the lands.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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