I have asked 5 FFL's in my area and none will receive a gun from an individual? Why is it a big deal for a seller to ship through an FFL if the buyer is willing to pay the extra charge.I know some of you will but some have specified that the buyers FFL "MUST" receive from an individual.

I don't like that FFL's in my area will not receive from an individual but they all seem to be afraid of the fed and won't discuss the fact that it is legal.A couple have been real smart a$$es when pressed.I won't do any more business with them but what's a guy to do who wants to buy off this site?

I had an FFL in my area that told me that he would receive for $20 per firearm. GREAT!!!

I received from an individual and his partner charges me $40. I explained what I had been told and he basically said tough $#!), we really do not want to receive from an individual and we charge more if we do. SOOO, no more business with them. I looked up FFL's in my area, found THE BEST FFL in the world and he charges me less, goes out of his way to make sure everything is acceptable and doesn't act like a horses @$$. AND HE HAS NO ISSUE RECEIVING FROM AN INDIVIDUAL, $15 per gun!

Keep lookin', you'll find a suitable FFL.

Why? Most ffl holders dont understand the laws.

Not at all unusual, they want records and accountability. To many inspections and any record errors real or otherwise risk the FFL. None in my area will accept from an individual, even thought it is legal to do so. FFL to FFL or no thank you. It does suck as it costs more money to us. Life in the fast lane I guess.

I don't understand why they dislike receiving from an individual myself. Back when I worked for a FFL pawn shop we did transfers for $10, didn't matter if it was from an individual or FFL. It's not a hard process at all. Wish I still lived around there.

FFL's think...receiving from an invidual, might open them up to receiving a stolen firearm. Even if the firearm received was stolen, the FFL is not on the hook for it.....IF...they call the transfer in to the ATF.

Makes no sense whatsoever.

What I want to know is why would anyone on this site not ship a gun through an FFL if I don't mind paying the extra?

I will keep looking but none so far want to receive from an individual.It makes it hard to say the magic words untill you PM a guy and ask if he will ship through an FFL.If it's a really good deal,you have already lost out to another before finding out.

Some ads say that the seller will not ship through an FFL and that's fine but I don't understand why except that it's a bit more hassel and expense.Sometimes however,I wouldn't mind paying the extra.

Do a gunbroker search for your receiving FFL. Usually the ones listed there are more open to transfers in general and are more likely to accept from an individual.

The reasonable question asked here is why is it a problem for the seller to use an FFL if the buyer covers the cost? Shouldn't 't be a problem. It might cause a minor delay depending on work schedule, etc., but beyond that I don't see an issue,

Internet sales cut the retail end at a FFL ' s store out. Some don't like that and believe that all sales should come through a business. That coupled with increased fear of the unknown and an unregulated private citizen is why I think they bach.

To me, some FFL dealers don't care to ship for people and it is an increased hassle. I have one that will do it for me, but about 10 that won't. So, due to the hassle and expense, I prefer not to ship through my end as a seller.

Now if its a handgun, it's a lot cheaper to ship USPS than UPS/FEDEX 2nd day or overnight, so I usually do it then.

Good advice..

If you truly want to pay the extra $35.00 on top of shipping costs be my guest... Just sayin.

At times some sellers neglect to include ID with the firearm. Makes it difficult for the FFL to log in without some type ID. I think for that reason they prefer to receive from another FFL.

Only reason I can think of.

We may need to summon Bricktop..

So just say the magic words like this " i will take it! pending on the seller shipping through an FFL, for which I will pay additional for, to cover the fees." This will buy you time to make your explanation. Pretty simple.

Professional courtesy, forces individual to pay on both ends. If most dealers had it their way, sales could only be done through licensed dealers. Likely the LIBERAL gene coming out in them. Its all about the dollar. GW

I'd guess most folks have the same type of ffl guys as you! Around here the shops won't ship for an individual, the money gained isn't worth the hassle is the usual response I've been given.

Hey Swifty....you do know it's against the law to ship a handgun using USPS....right?

Not for an FFL holder and non-FFL holders are not prosecuted. If the USPS finds out non-FFLs are shipping a handgun, the item is immediately returned. If the item is lost or damaged in shipping, any claim is denied due to shipping a "prohibited item."

An FFL holder who wishes to ship a handgun must file a PS 1508 form.

http://about.usps.com/forms/ps1508.pdf

I ran nto the same problem last year for the first time.
I sold a rifle to a guy who said X,Y, ad Z dealers refused to take the rifle from an non-licensed person. I was a bit leary thinking he was just trying to back out on the deal so I asked if he would mind if I called them.
I did and all three said the same thing.
That the ATF had cracked down in the area and that they WOULD NOT accept a firearm from an non-licensed person.
keep in mind all three were pawn shops and took guns on trade dailey from nonlicensed customers in the store.
I checked gunbrokers ffl search and found that 2 of the 3 were listed there.
When I contacted gunbroker customer support I told them the dealers were making up thier own rules and I felt they should not be allowed to be listed on gunbroker. 6 hours later they were removed from the FFL search engine.
Many dont KNOW the law and many dont CARE.
Use the search on gunbroker and call a few in your zip code. If they are dicks have gunbroker remove them. You will find one that will do the transfer. I assure you.

I recently made a trade here and was using a different FFL than I had before. I call them up ask if they recieved from an individual and they said yes no problem. They sent a copy of the FFL over to the seller and a couple days later I go in to pick up the gun. This is a descent size place now and probably has 3-5 guys working the gun counter at any given time. So this guy ask if he could help me and I told him what I was there for. He goes to the back and comes back with my gun still unopened in the package. He opens it up and say's "there isn't a copy of the FFL in here " and I told him there wasn't one it was shipped from an individual. "We don't do transfers from individuals". Your $#*&% me right. He tells me he has to have a copy of an FFL to transfer from no exceptions. Now I'm pissed but I keep my cool and walk out to the parking lot to make some phone calls. 10 min later I walk back into this place and ask the manager which has been a really good guy in times past about it and he say's oh yeah come on back here and we will get it took care of right away. He ask who told me they wouldn't accept from an individual and made the same guy do the transfer and they both apoligized to me several times.

But to answer your question I don't know why people don't like to ship from an FFL besides cost and if your covering that I don't see a problem.

My FFL won't accept handgun shipments from a non FFL due to the possible hassle facotr if gun is stolen, and MI has some screwed up regs as well when it comes to handguns.

The store I work in accepts from non-FFL's all the time, I'd like to know what the hassle is. Takes about 15 minutes of our time. First we run a check on the serial # thru TICS, put the gun in the log book, notify the customer that their weapon is here, they come in do a form 4473, (background check), charge them $25 for the transfer & $10 for the background check. $25.00 is pretty good money for 15 min. work. And nobody complains about the fees.

What regs make it harder in MI?

Ryan

Ignorance, stupidity, and perceived liability are the "hassles."

I had an FFL in a previous life for about 20 years. Knowledge comes with the license in the form of a book but you have to read it. If a seller includes a copy of his drivers license with the firearm then your FFL can enter it in his book and out of the book to the end buyer. Oh yeah - the ATF does NOT do "call in transfers" - read the book and learn something instead of spreading or making up internet lore. As far as "stolen firearms" the FFL is NOT on the hook as if it dropped from the sky - get the proper ID so the chain can be followed in the case something turns up stolen down the road.

"10 min later I walk back into this place and ask the manager which has been a really good guy in times past about it and he say's oh yeah come on back here and we will get it took care of right away. He ask who told me they wouldn't accept from an individual and made the same guy do the transfer and they both apoligized to me several times."

Love it! It is admirable to me that the manager didn't just do the transaction himself, but hauled in the guy that was misinforomed and had him do the transaction. He received an education that day.

I think a lot of it depends on your relationship with the FFL holder.I purchase frequently from my local dealer.When I mail a gun he always charges $25.00 even if its insured for over $1000.00 he charges me $25.00.I can also get a firearm shipped to him from an individual $25.00 transfer fee.If you purchase very little from the shop and only want to use them as your shipping agent I could understand them telling you to GFY.

Some dealers just want a sale to go through them and will make it a hassle to do otherwise. Its best to find a home based ffl or someone who does a small business on the side. They will be glad to help you.

Once when looking for a transfer dealer, one here in MI said they charge $45 + state sales tax on the purchase price, no matter where or who it came from. What a crock. That is half the reason to buy a gun out of state.

Very true. I've heard some amazing b.s. spread by guns shop owners and employees. The sad part is that so many of their customers believe it then spread the misinformation. They're no IQ test or even firearms law test required to obtain an FFL.

Given the long history of erratic behavior by the BATFE, I have no trouble understanding why some FFL holders can be paranoid about the system. There is no such thing as a simple straight forward and up-to-date checklist of requirements. Simultaneously many states are working hard to complicate things. The environment ain't real friendly.

In Michigan it is good advise to transfer threw a FFL when selling a handgun out of state. Handguns are registered in your name and having a FFL do the transfer takes it out of your name into the FFL's book. The extra $10-$25 you pay them will be off set by them shipping USPS flat rate and not having to ship FedEX.

I shipped a pistol to Alaska FedEX wanted $75.20, USPS medium flat rate insured for $1000 under $25. Payed my FFL $15 and drove him to the P.O.

Part of the reason FFL's don't want to do transfers from out of state individuals. People are not sending a copy of there drivers license. They cannot log in that gun without a FFL or Drivers License.

Bingo!!!

A local guy here just got his FFL and opened a pawn shop.He is a nice guy and the brother of a friend of mine.I've stopped in, bought a few pawn shop items,and talked guns with him often.I asked him about receiving from an individual.At first he said no problem.Then being a new FFL he called his local fed guy(ATF or whatever,I don't know,but I was there)to make sure he was correct and had everything in order as to what he should do.His guy told him not to receive from an individual.


We talked about it and he said he thought it was perfectly legal but he didn't need any hassel from his guy.He told me that at one time the fed had pointed to a passage in that book of rules and asked if he knew exactly what that ment.He then told the new FFL that said passage ment that the law was whatever he said it was.Apparently he only said it to intimidate the new FFL.

I only started this thread to make sellers aware of the difficulty in the hope that some will decide to change their mind and ship through an FFL if the buyer covers all extra expense.

His "local fed guy" cannot render a legally binding determination and a f*cking telephone call sure as [bleep] doesn't qualify as that. If your little pawn shop buddy needs to get a detailed answer on BATFE letterhead, he needs to confine all of his queries in writing to the BATFE's LEGAL department.


Federal Firearms Licensing Center
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, WV 25405-9431

The seller isn't responsible for appeasing your choice of FFL holders. Even if you're willing to "cover extra expense" that doesn't address the seller's additional hassle and bullshit of going through an FFL holder.

Sounds like somebody at ATF needs to be brought up on abuse of power charges. The next time we have a Repub in the White House (if that ever happens again), the ATF needs a house cleaning from top to bottom. On the firearms front, the ATF's harassment and strong-arm tactics should be focused on going after straw purchasers and those few gun shops that cater to straw purchasers. On the other side of the coin, the ATF should be doing everything possible to assist those who are trying to obey the laws to do business as efficiently as possible instead of harassing those people who are doing their best to comply with applicable laws and regulations.

The BATFE is less of a problem than the morons who've received FFLs and want to make up rules and blame their own stupidity on someone else.

I was pissed too but my pawn shop FFL told me that being a new FFL holder and a new business he just couldn't afford the hassel.I will pass along the address but I doubt he will have the courage to do anything other than what he was told.

He couldn't afford to write a f*cking letter? F*ck him.

Mr. Clark,

You might want to explain to your friend that doing what the "local fed" tells him could get him in a lot of trouble when there is a new "local fed" doing the compliance inspections who has a different interpretation than the old "local fed" had. If your friend has any questions, he needs to get guidance in writing from the source of official guidance, like Bricktop said. Ultimately the "local fed" can't go against what the source of official guidance puts in writing.

If you want a gun shipped through a ffl up here it costs 30- 60 bucks from dealers... Anyhow I will do it but buyer will pay the ffl fee... I sold a rifle to a fella in Wisconsin after everything was done I was told his dealer needed me to get an ffl so I ate the 25 dollar fee for that one and it was a lesson learned for sure.

[bleep], I had and FFL that wouldn't ship a rifle to my FFL in Alaska, because they wouldn't ship a gun out of the country.

Maybe you should find a current "book", as you call it....and read it yourself.

So exactly HOW THE [bleep] does an FFL run the background check on the individual who purchases a firearm? Yes dumbass....They..."call it in".

ATF can and does ask for the firearm serial number and model. It IS checked against the database for stolen firearms.

The next time you quote somebody, it is called a quote. Don't paraphrase and rearrange words to suit whatever soap box you happen to be on at the moment. I typed, "..they call the transfer in to the ATF". Another keyboard hugger at work.

In this state, a firearm purchase/transfer from the receiving/selling FFL, can be completed by filling out the 4473, and then present the state issued "firearm purchase permit" or concealed carry permit. So, in this state, it is possible to purchase/transfer a stolen firearm and find out later when the serial number is checked during a future purchase.

I have made a hobby of guns/shooting for 50+ years.
I would never buy a gun without inspection privileges, and any item I get tired of is sold with satisfaction guaranteed.

How does one do a return if not shipped by an FFL?

Just my $.02 worth.

The fact that your wrong is only compounded by your misplaced certainty that your correct.
At no pint during the telephone approval is there ANY information other than LONG GUN or HANDGUN with regards to a firearm.
It is a check on the person.
No record of the model, caliber and certainly the serial number is ever requested offered or even applicable to the prosses.
To further your joke, you call someone else a dumbass?
This place is a HOOT!

+1 ringworm

what are you just sayin'? That you love Rachel Madcow? I don't understand? HE SAID HE WOULD PAY THE DIFFERENCE ... so why the XXXX-YYY comment?

RH ... if you ever buy a firearm from me ... its your dime, I'll go the an FFL for you.

+2 ringworm; I wondered how long it would take for someone to correct that statement!!!

Does "extra" inlcude time out of the seller's day to meet the FFL holder as well as mileage?

Do a better job of locating an FFL holder. Don't expect the seller to shoulder any part of your burden.

"Extra" to me means $35.00. That doesn't include my time or mileage. Just what all the FFL holders around here charge on top of shipping charges..

Well,I'm trying.I don't expect anyone to do anything they don't want to do and yes I wouldn't mind a small reasonable charge to cover gas and time too.I'm really easy to get along with if anyone half way tries.

I am an FFL holder and gladly accept firearms from individuals. I ask for their, and usually receive, ID but I don't worry about that like maybe I should. I don't ship for people because of the hassle as the shipper can drive down to UPS, FEDEX, or the USPS just like I would have to do to ship the gun. If the law said that the gun had to be shipped from a dealer I would gladly get into doing it for my customers but since the law doesn't say that the gun has to be shipped from an FFL then I don't want the hassle of doing it. The day that I become worried about receiving a gun from an individual I will get the buyer/my customer to make sure that he has all of that information before he comes to get the gun or I don't do the transfer until I have the needed information for my book.

I also read where someone said that the serial numbers are checked for theft against a database when the transfer is called in to NICS. That's NOT right! There has NEVER been a time when I have been asked for a serial number when doing a transfer by the folks at NICS. It's a simple process that takes a little time but I get to meet some very interesting people and see some amazing guns.

Anyway, anyone in the Northeast Texas area ... I'd be happy to do a transfer for you on a gun purchase from out-of-state.

I don't have an answer for your question. But maybe if you offer more money to the FFL holders in your area, you may get a better answer. Ask them how much it'll cost to get them to accept from an individual, I'm sure there's a number, you might not like it though.

RH,

I typically do all of my firearm shipments via my local FFL. I am lazy. It's convenient to have him do the work. He does it well. Have never had anything fail to show up on the other end. No insurance claims. None of the horror stories mentioned in other threads.

As mentioned in a previous post, I do other business with him, buy/sell/trade. As a result it generally only costs me $20 to max $30 per firearm shipped and insured. I do not always have the original box for shipping long guns. He has a whole stack of boxes he can work from. Due to work schedule and travel I am not always able to go to the UPS depot or USPS during the hours they are open. UPS and USPS come to his store everyday.

Do I HAVE to use an FFL every time ? No. But, for me, it is just easier.

For me, i don't want to ship through my FFL because I don't want to mess with a good thing (my relationship with my dealer). I don't want to piss him off with the hassle of shipping for me when we both know it's perfectly legal for me to ship it myself. All he requires to receive from an individual is a copy of a DL. I've sold guns and never had any problem selling to somebody whose dealer would accept shipment from an individual.

Sorry. But you should be able to find a reputable dealer that ain't skeerd of doing whatever the law allows.

In turn, it pisses me off when I'm trying to buy from somebody in my state and they want to ship to a dealer when it's perfectly legal for him to ship it directly to me (long arm). Why would we not take advantage of the liberties we currently have? And we're probably fixin' to lose that one.

The post office and Federal Express drop off are within walking distance of my house and I can handle that at my convenience.

Transacting anything at a dealer requires additional scheduling and driving. And unless I'm receiving an additional benefit over and above the basic sale of my firearm, I'm not going to even entertain the thought. It's a big internet with lots of buyers and sellers and there are good FFL holders out there. You need to do the legwork on your end, too.

Ive had the same FFL holder that Ive used for years and he does not give a damn how it gets to his shop just get it here and we will get on with the transfer somtimes I just feel blessed and am glad I dont have to put up with the crap that others have to go thru.

The ffl I use could give a chit who sends him the gun as long as he has an ID or FFL to log it in. More then once the shipper forgot to include a photocopy of their DL and he just calls and asks me to call the shipper and have them email me or fax him a copy. He's very easy to deal with and we have an agreement that he has third right of refusal on any guns I sell after my family and buddies.

It takes about 30 sec. to check a ser.# on TICS, costs nothing, and lets us know up front that the weapon is ok. Also, how do yo do a 4473 without putting a serial # on the form?

He didn't state he filled out 4473s without a serial number, he stated NICS doesn't ask the dealer for a serial number when the transfer is called in for approval.

JohnP -

Bricktop is correct. All of my 4473's have the correct serial number on them and are there when the transaction occurs. I said that that NICS NEVER asks for a serial number. They only want to know if the gun is a long gun, handgun, or both.

I'm sorry for you guys out there that have such a hassel in the transfer of your internet gun purchases. It's just not that way with me and everything that I do is by the book!

I'm in just the opposite situation, I have 3 FFL's closer to me than either the post office, Fed Ex or UPS drop off sites. & my FFL's don't care who send'em any thing. Its only $20-25 to deal with them, not $35.

To Bricktop and BSA,

The extra burden is an issue between the buyer and seller, If that is the only buyer, maybe the seller would go out of his way. If there is a long line of buyers than the OP is out of luck. I personally go way outta my way to help anyone with which I'm doing business. Over the last 10+ years of being on this site and doing business, I can see that is a dying trait and one of the biggest reasons I do so little business here compared with years ago.

Or maybe the buyer could do the legwork and locate an FFL holder who doesn't have his head buried in his ass.

There are plenty of good FFL holders.

I hold an FFL. I'll receive from anyone. Just as easy to write down a name and address in my book as it is to write down another dealer's FFL number. Makes absolutely zero difference legally here in Oregon.

Bingo a winner!!!!

Because they are tarded!!!

Yeah,

I didn't read the entire thread but I bet all of those ashholes will short some poor "individual" off the street for their trade-in....... Corksmokers!