What exactly is no longer manufactured in the USA to warrant the "Assembled in the USA" moniker?

Don't care about personal opinions on them, I just want a factual answer. If it's just glass, I am good with that.



Yada, yada, fat, retard, hints, window likkers, clueless, trolls and especially those who don't shoot, those who shoot everything or those resigned to live in Texas. I forget anyone? We get it and we still don't care.

Probably all the guts

The manufacture of John Browning’s firearm inventions and designs were moved to FN in Belgium at one point, then to Japan

Does that mean they suck?

Who said anything about sucking?

Sounds like a personal issue.

It’s a Global economy. Lots of stuff made in lots of places even if assembled here.

My John Deere tractor, made in the state of GA, has some European parts. Lots have Mexican parts.

I’ve read that Leupold scopes have Asian glass. Not sure where from or if that’s all they import. They not saying. John Deere not saying.

DF

While it's impossible to say what exact components or assemblies are outsourced in any product, here's an over view of the terminology.

https://supplychaingamechanger.com/made-in-america-vs-assembled-in-america-defining-terms/

Good shootin' -Al

Everything "machined" is machined in the USA so if it's a part made on a lathe or mill it's made here. That covers most all the internals like erector tubes and adjustments/turrets.

Lenses are imported. Don't know about springs. Don't know about seals or o-rings.

Very informative. Thanks, Al.

Glass/lenses are not made in many places. Most companies get the glass from a foundry, and then add the coatings.

Well glass doesn't bother me, springs and seals, maybe not a huge concern either.

I have my eye on a VX-5HD or possibly a VX-6HD.

I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion. But, there were probably only 2 or 3 Auto-5s made physically in the USA, after that they were all made in Herstal or Kochi, except for the American Browning's. I've only had a couple hundred different Auto-5s, so, I probably don't know much about there quality.

Reupolds would actually track,repeat and hold zero,if they simply let LOW make 'em...guts,feathers and all. Hint...............

LOW has to be one of the premiere glass manufacturing companies anywhere. They make some of the best.

DF

I worked in a GM manufacturing facility in Tennessee for six years. Almost every single part was made in China but a few were from Mexico. As a lifelong cheerleader for Leupold my enthusiasm is fading fast.

Keep "living" vicariously,as you prove you are addicted to me. Hint.

It would help your "cause",if you were transparent with dates and Thread numbering. Hint.

In fairness however,I've not received a NIB Reupold,since earlier today. Won't take much "luck" for it to surpass my recent Reupold MK5 HD,which is THE biggest piece of fhuqking schit Reupold I've ever seen,shot or bought. Hint.




The MK5 HD was/is simply AMAZINGLY Fhuqking Schitty. Hint.










Bless your heart for trying, as you steal pics.

Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!.....................

Johnny “Vicarious” NyQuil,


The guts are made in China . LOL

No. But you do lol

If you want a high end optic with the feature set of the VX-5/6 there really is not a lot out there.

2nd FP
3-18X magnification
light weight
durability
excellent tracking/zero retention
great optical design meaning very large eyebox and small ocular bezel,
best hunting illumination
good reticles I like the illuminated TMOA
very good low light performance
locking turrets with zero stop. I add an extra locking spot 1 MOA above the factory stop so I can lock it on 200yds or 100yds with most rifles
20 MOA per rotation
plenty of internal adjustment
Made in USA (mostly).

The VX-6 checks all the right boxes for me.

As a side note I don't know where the electronics for the illumination are produced.

I would be interested in what others find that checks those boxes.

I may have misunderstood your post before my 1st cup of coffee this morning, but I was guessing that you were trying to equate lesser quality with foreign manufacture. My point was that John Browning‘s designs were genius and he obviously had quality standards, no matter where they were produced.

I would bet Leupold is the same.

P.S.

Many have a notion that Belgium made Brownings are of a higher quality than those made in Japan.

A friend who worked there his entire life gave an example of the semi automatic Browning 22 rifle. He said they tested them side-by-side over thousands and thousands of rounds, and the Japanese models continued to run after the Belgians quit.


You’ve owned 200 Auto-5s?

No fugking way Leupold is in the same league as John Moses Browning. Not even close

Where were the Auto-5's built that were made in 1954? I have 2 with sequential serial numbers.

“With the exception of a few lenses everything is domestically sourced in its raw state.”

Precision Rifle Shooter, 2024 Spring Edition page 36

Yeah, actually probably over 200, just not at once. I consigned over 125 after my divorce, probably still have over a couple dozen, a Grade 3 12, 16 and 20 ga set, probably a dozen NIB Stalker Light and Mag 12s, custom built 1991 Mag 12 with 28" Hastings Wadlock barrel done in Black T, NIB NWTF Mag 12, a first year Stalker 32" Mag 12 that has 10s of 1000s of rounds thru it, a couple of POW Light and Mag 20 guns NIB, a 2 gun matching serial number 12/20 Grade 3 set, a 3 gun set I put together from 1965, Light 12, Sweet 16 and Light 20, a first year double spring 1958 Mag 12 that is close to NIB, a 1909 Standard 12. I even have 2 aluminum receiver Diawa 12ga guns, shot sporting clays with one for a few seasons.

They're just guns, no one appreciates them any more, including me, when you can carry a little 5lb 28ga and shoot 5/8oz powder puff loads, hard to pick up a 9lb shotgun or shoot heavy loads of lead or steel.

They will be passed on to kiddos I know who eat sleep and breath hunting and fishing.

Belgium, 1954 thru 1957 were some of the finest Auto-5s produced

if Leupold is having issues with tracking and holding zero I would think the springs would be one of the concerns..

Are they having wide ranging issues? I have had 2, maybe 3 out of literally hundreds of cheap Leupolds that failed to track or hold zero. Yes, a tap on the turret was often required unless you ran the turrets thru their range a few times to avoid wasting ammo. But once set, they stayed in place. I have returned more for damage to be repaired or replaced than for mechanical issues.

At some point, we have to heed Sticks advice, shoot more, post less.

I am going to order me a 5 or 6 once I commit to a reticle and magnification. I damn sure won't be posting about it either way, there's enough nonsense here now.

from what gets reported that I've seen it's the higher end ones that seem to have more trouble than the cheaper ones??

but I agree with you on shoot more post less get actual experience and see what products work for you and what don't.

Things got better,yesterday afternoon. Hint.(grin)



Just sayin'...............

Ironically, shooting more is what reveals the mechanical problems that people run into. No scope has mechanical issues while sitting in the safe, and I'm guessing that it's difficult to keep enough ammo in stock to shoot hundreds of scopes enough to reveal mechanical problems. Either way, we should all use what works for our needs.

Trends and Track Records matter,as not all wares are "equal",let alone close. Hint.

Furthermore,not all Manufacturers can keep pace and more than a few are cutting costs,while "offering" schittier products for more money. None of which is "secreted" information. Hint.

Spent primers remain THE Supreme Tutorial. Hint.

Just sayin'..............

Thank you!

Oh I appreciate them plenty, but I sold my last one because I was shooting enough clays that sooner or later I’d have to have it worked on, tough as they are. The 725 I replaced it with will likely bury me.

After a slump in prices that lasted for quite some time, it appears they’re going up again.

I bought when every one and their brother had to have a Benelli SBE. People were selling them for stupid cheap, I am talking Mag 12 Stalkers for $500 or less new in the box. I bought that 3 gun Grade 3 set for less than $3k, each new in the box and never assembled so the guy could buy his 2 boys each a new SBE II. I have been offered stupid money for a new in the box Stalker with Invector Plus chokes as long as it had a 28" barrel. They cycle like everything else, ups and downs. If you purchased one at the Tulsa Gun Show between late 2017 and late 2018, it likely came from my collection. I cherry picked and kept the best for nephews and friends kids after I die.

Ex wife collected hangovers, I collected Auto-5s.

^^^ I haven’t gone through that many, but I’m not far under 75….trying to count them up. I should have kept more of them. $ got stupid on some rarer ones that just sat, so I sold those. I should have kept more of the Stalkers and somehow I don’t have any 20s anymore. HM Shirley used to crack me up when he’d start talking about the 3k Auto 5s he’d owned, and letting the Browning execs in Utah shoot stuff they swore that Browning never made. Lol.

Waiting in Ft. Lauderdale airport for a flight to Seattle and I was reading Precision Rifle when I came across this…,

Why can you not subscribe online to that magazine? You can buy the back issues, but I will be damned if I can find a way to subscribe online, either print or digital.

You lost me there.

People are putting a pile of confidence into "assembled in USA" by a guy making 17-19 bucks an hour - in the Portland area. But the machinist starts at 20....

Assemblers.

Sorry about your luck. My three have been working great for years.

It's an SIP (Special Interest Publication) and they are often newsstand only.

If you’re asking about the magazine article I posted I’m sure there was a subscription card for the print version. I’ll look when I get unpacked and let you know….I’d be happy to send it to you if you want.

I guess everything can fail from time to time

While others are putting confidence in foreign made scopes made by workers making $3.70 per hour, or child slaves.

The Chinaman is living better on their wage than the American is at 19 an hour.

I dont know so but I don’t think so.

Besides, does that $3.70 an hour include a health plan, employer contributions to a retirement plan, and paid vacation?

And getting beat up at the end of the day if the Chinese employee doesn’t meet his production quota?

The average Chinese mfg wage in 2022 was 97,528 yuan. That's 13,472 us dollars. They'll spend 500 a month (US) on an apartment in China, downtown. 45% of wages.

19 an hour is 39,520 US gross - they'll spend 1728 a month in rent for an apartment. 52% of wages.

I guess the US guy really is living quite a bit better than the Chinese guy, spending an extra 7% just for an apartment but hey - it's beautiful Portland.

And I'd wager the average Chinaman has much more attention to detail vice the average American taking the job that pays less than what the average fast food wage is there.


The real question tho - is the Chinaman in the factory doing a high paying job and thus likely getting better talent for the job in his area vice the Leup assembler wage compared to local options. That I don't know.

How much of "Leupold's are failing" is based on actual fact, versus targeted social media efforts by their competitors to try to gain some market share? As an example, Vortex must have one of the largest advertising/marketing budgets, based on how much you see them splashed across everything printed, filmed or blogged. In today's age of social media, "marketing" also includes paid social influencers and internet trolls that try to sway opinion or create false narratives.

It was interesting to see how effective the marketing can be. I watched my daughter's boyfriend shop for a scope at the DSC convention. Out of all the brands, he kept picking up the Vortex out of brand recognition. I think he ended up buying one of the Vortex scopes that's sourced from China.

Exactly. They target the advertising and marketing to the masses that don't know any better. Call it tactical, long range, or add certain words or acronyms and the sheep suck it up.

Reupold does it to themselves. Hint.

When you send their broken schit back to their VERY busy Repair Facility,they'll list a report of maladies to Vortex. Hint.





You Retarded Brokedick Professional Victim Crying Kchunts are a fhuqking riot! Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!.................

I don't pay much attention to the uber-high end scope market as I personally have no interest in it. It seems to me that most every optic seller nowadays makes products that match a certain price point, which makes perfect sense, to me anyway. It also seems to me that Vortex does a better job of marketing and warranting their offerings than most anyone else and it's paid off big time. If a guy wants an inexpensive optic, more power to him as it has no bearing on what I'm doing. I'm always amazed at people's reactions regarding what other people are doing with their own money. As a matter of fact, after the Liberty Optics screwing over their Vortex customers fiasco, and the way Vortex went waaaaay above and beyond to take care of their consumers, I have the utmost respect for them as a company nowadays. I'd have to speculate that I don't know of one single company that would have went to the lengths Vortex did to make customers happy. In today's age of bad/poor/nonexistent customer service, what Vortex did was a breath of fresh air.

I've yet to see a Vortex track,repeat or hold zero. Hint.

Just sayin'...............

Please do, I'd appreciate it.

Are you suggesting that Leupold does not engage in the same sorts of things to positively affect its own image relative to competitors?

This applies equally to both Vortex and Leupold.

Maybe they do, maybe they don't, I don't know. Leupold has been in the optics ecosystem for a long time and probably has a pretty established and traditional marketing approach (conjecture on the latter point, on my part).

Heck, I'm 58 years old and own a business and all my marketing is through phone calls and handshakes. I don't do Facebook, Twitter, blogs, e-blasts etc.

A newcomer to the market might have a whole different (and modern) marketing approach that involves a more strategic digital presence and marketing philosophy, including influencers/misinformation etc., that might employ some more "black ops" as part of that approach. The old adage, say it enough and from enough rooftops and people will start to believe it.

I was just asking if we're certain there's a problem with Leupold products, based on actual fact. Or is it the proverbial a friend of a friend said... that ends up taking on a life of its own?

I guess the only one that would really know if quality and reliability of the product has suffered, would be Leupold, through their own product metrics.

Trends you say.

BOGO on Wal-Quil DM this weekend only

Vortex is garbage

Sadly, I never saw a Vortex at the range or in the store I would buy.

Nothing 'sad' about that at all. That's just a good decision. 👍

The Golden Eagle series is actually pretty decent. But at that price point, there are many better options.

Good shootin' -Al

Blanket statements are foolish.

Vortex markets a whole gamut of optics. Some are good, some are not. I've had a few I did not care for and sold off. I did get a scope that came on a rifle I purchased; a Gen II Razor HD. It holds zero, it has great clarity and resoution, and it has a nice usable reticle.

If you're able to get in the discount program, there is some great value in their optics. I purchased a Golden Eagle for my F-T/R rig at quite the bargain. I don't think I could get anything comparable for the price; Sightron would be the closest.

Vortex may not make something that interests you, but that does not mean they are all "garbage".

What is your choice in optics?

I finally opened this one yesterday, will be going on a 7 twist 223 to replace a Tract Turion 3 - 9, probably my favorite optic ever produced.

I feel your pain,as I suffered a NIB Reupold yesterday myself. Hint.




Just sayin'...............

Those old Gerbers were some nice knives

Darryle…. Just remembered about this. The magazine Precision Rifle Shooter appears to be a “sub-publication” of Guns and Ammo and the subscription card is for G&A. I’m happy to send you the magazine and perhaps you can get in touch with them and get the “scoop” on a subscription.

If you’d like me to send it to you just PM me your address and I’ll get it sent out. 👍🏼

I barely have 100+ of 'em. Hint.

Just sayin'................

You could have saved up and bought a good rifle or 2.

Just Sayin and it's never to late to get out there and start pickin up soda pop cans on the roadway to fund your first good rifle.

John, you can be exasperating at times, but I do chuckle quite often at your posts.

Does Accuracy International count?

No need, I do appreciate it though. I will subscribe and buy the back issues I want.

Thanks Darryle