ok i got a marlin 444 that i hunt with.I need to figure out a scope for this gun.I was using a cheap 4-12 bushnell that gave out this year after several years.I use a old k4 weaver on my savage 99's and like the fixed 4x power scopes.This is only a 200 yard gun if i need longer range i'd switch to a better suited gun.My standard shots are from 30 yards to 150 with majority around 50 or 100 yards.

So wich scope would you recomend for my situation

Well, a lot of guys around here really like the Leupold fixed 6x scopes and for good reason. From the older M-8 to the 6x36 or even the 6x42 I'd say you can't go wrong with any of them. I sure like the two I have and don't feel I give up anything to a 4x for up close stuff.

you don't feel the 6x would be too high for close shots.
i've never looked through 6x so i'm not sure

I do not. There will be people who disagree along shortly though, so give them a few minutes.

A Leupy 4x33 would be good. Don't shy away from the older M8 scopes with the friction adjustments. I like them and they've never not worked for me.

Another to consider, if you can find one......is a Weaver Grand Slam 4.75 power. They haven't made them for awhile, but I see them every once-in-a-while for $150 to $175. Great scope for the money.

Here is a suggestion, head to one of the large sporting goods stores which has displays of scopes mounted on demo stocks, set one on 6x and look around the store to see for yourself. Our local Bass Pro has one and I seem to recall them at Gander Mtn & Cabellas.

IMHO a 6x is just fine for 30 yards.

You can get a 2-7 for the same or less than a fixed 6 and it comes with a free 6X inside. You can pick what works the best for you.

These days most scopes are variables. Leupold is the leader. Get a 2-7 Leupold.

I have made quick shots on mule deer at under 30 yards with my FX-II 6x36

Tell us more, oh wise one...

I'd go fixed 6. The fixed 6 will stand up to the recoil of that big bore lever better than a variable.

David

I'd be happy with anything 2.5-4X on a 444. No sense putting a 500-600 yard scope on a 200 yard rifle.

Some areas such as where we hunt in the NE say the buck must have a one inch long tine on an antler.

"A legal buck in Vermont must have at least one antler with two or more points one inch or longer. "

The higher power will make it easier.

Also spotting shots on the target at the range.

Oh now you hunt too?

In the NE where I hunt we call it a tine.

+1 on calling it a tine.


Tang is the stuff astronauts drink.

I have a draw full of knives with tangs.

Sorry off my radar. have never shot a buck with 1" horns,and if I blow an opportunity at one because I didn't have enough scope power, I'm not losing sleep.

Besides, there's always bins for that.

I use a spotting scope at the range.

If it was mine, I would set it up with a Weaver Classic K4(4x38). The best scope for the application IMHO...very nice Japanese glass and under $175...and that K4 is PLENTY tough enough to handle the recoil.

If you've been using a 4-12 Bushy, almost anything else should feel like winning the lottery.

A trim Leupie 3x20, stout enough for 444 and it'll take you the 200yd mark w/o problem. SWFA carries them.

I would run the 4x33 leupold. I like the 6X's but they add little except cost and a reduction in FOV, until you start shooting beyond 150yds.

gosh, for a big lever gun used mostly in brush out to 200 yards seems like more than 4X would be a waste. I would not want a 6X on it.

Have you ever used one?

I've run a fair amount of 6x scopes but not enough. After the New Years I plan on dumping more of my scopes and do almost a complete shift to 6x on all but a few rifles.

guess i'll take one of my variables out set at 6 and then check next to one of my old k4's.With the 4-12 i never moved off 4x just always seemed like the perfect magnification for my hunting.

But you never shoot close or quick, right?

One of your variables set on 6x probably won't provide the "get behind" ease of a straight 6x Leupold.

If you decide to stray to a variable I have a like new 1-4x20 Leopoldo vxii that needs a new home

100% not the same.

David

..given the facts you provided at the onset of your post, I cant see how a good solid 4x or 6x could go wrong...but based on your stated target size and distances stated, I'd lean towards a 4x fixed for quicker target acquisition.

my .02...

dave

Sounds a lot like Swampy, azz shooting dinks from his golf cart...

BTW, what has happened to the famous Florida reenactor...? Don needs help with tidbits of wisdom...

DF

DF: (sigh)

Seems I recall Swampy declaring it took him a number of shots out of a 7-08 to kill a WT deer...

DF

They're pretty tough..

I have been trying to figure out what fixed scope to put my "brush" rifle. 6x just seem like a little too much since where I hunt I have had deer literally walk out within 30-40 feet of me. I would. Much rather have a 1-4 in those cases but I don't want a variable so I will stick with the minimum maximum I think. I ended up finding a little 4x Nikon with the RealTree camo on it that I paid $100 for. It actually did way way better than I thought it would on an overcast day. I got a last minute opportunity just as it was getting dark. Even though it did a good jod and I can't say I need anything more all it did was make me want an even better 4x for my main brush rifle the Nikon will go on my .357 handi rifle I think. I just won an old Meopta 4x and I'm hoping it will be a bit brighter. I actually really want find newer model that was discontinued. One with the #4 reticle but I just couldn't locate one. So if not a Meopta then my last stop will probably be to just get the IOR 4x32 and be done with it.

I also considered the weaver k6 and all of the 4x40 and 6x42 scopes I could find but after seeing how well the little Nikon performed I don't think a larger scope or more magnification will gain me anything that some range time and practice can't compensate for. As a brush rifle I

i ended up talking a cousin in a trade he had m8's in 4x and 6x he wouldn't let the 4x go but traded the 6x for a m8 2x scope i had.probably be week for mail to get here.I looked through a nikon set on 6x next to my k4 and i think i will be fine not used to the higher setting but time will tell.

Well there is the 2 1/2 Leupold, 1. 5 to 5 is a good one, then fixed 3 or 4x or you can just put an Aimpoint on it! There are lots of choices, for your Marlin I think I would go with either the 2 1/2 or an Aimpoint, with Tally Rings and bases you could have more that one sight and switch out as needed depending on the conditions! Its what I am doing with my Blaser, I got an Aimpoint for it, I have a 6 x 42 Leupold that works well even in the New England Woods!

my concern with going 6x would be light transmission in low light situations. I would get the 4x.

OK

As Steelhead alluded.......You need to do some research before you say such a thing. What's it called......Exit pupil?

6x42 not a good low light scope? LOL.

A straight six Leupold will be much easier to "get behind" than that Nikon.

I'm not sure what you mean. I hunt dark holes in a timber lease with 6x Leupolds, no problemo.

6x can take you to walking to the truck in the dark and it doesn't have to be all that far away.

The reticle gets the win in low light, not the difference between 4 or 6.

Same same. I have used M8, FX-III and FX-3 6 powers and all look into those "dark holes" quite well.

I would have with a 4x, like the Leupold. I had one on a .45/70 Marlin and it worked very well, with ample FOV and ample magnification for the sorts of distances a hot-loaded .45/70 (and by extension, a .444) can reach. I also have a 4x on my 9.3x74 double rifle, and it works a treat there, for similar distances. The 4x Leupold also is very light and, importantly, has a small diameter eyepiece compared to some (especially many variables), so you can mount it low and still access the hammer easily.

I have owned a number of 6x scopes, and still have three of them. IMHO while they are a very versatile choice, they do give away a bit of FOV, and hence speed on close-in fast-moving critters. Not my choice for a .444 for that reason.

YMMV.

For what he is using it for I still think a new Classic K4 would be about perfect...if you really must spend more look into a Leupold FX-II in 2.5x20.

Just ordered a K4 and a K6. I believe the K6 will go on a 35 Whelen that Redneck is doing up for me now. The K4.........not sure. Maybe the 300 Wby Mag to see what it will take.

I'm thinking there's a reason they're cheap.....I guess we'll see. At least they have a lifetime warranty.

I applaud your ability to regurgitate forum math. I am fully aware of ubiquitous exit pupil forumlas. I have also dialed down in low light on my 2.5-10x42 varipoint and been able to see at low powers what I could not at 6 or above.

Doubtful.....but......congratulations?

Doubtful only if you do not place a premium on clarity or have never actually experienced the matter in the field. Which is you?

Dropping an anterless deer at 100 yards, last light...does it matter if it's a button or a doe? That level of clarity can absolutely hang in the balance.

Feisty. I like it.

When the exit pupil gets above 7mm, unless a person's iris dilates to an unusual degree, all that's happening is the front side of the eye is being illuminated around the pupil. A 10mm exit pupil doesn't get more light to the sensor, the retina.

If I've already shot a buck in a 1-buck county..........I'd be damn sure and identify what I'm shooting at....at last light....with a good pair of BINOCULARS! I'd much rather spend $2 grand on good BINOCULARS and $500 on a decent scope than spend $2,500 on a scope and use only that $2,500 scope to identify game.

I'm pretty sure 2 eyes are better than one.......But maybe that's just me. You're probably a LOT better with one eye than I am with 2.

First let me be clear that I don't point my rifle at a deer without first positively identifying it as such.

The vast majority of my shot opportunities are just a few seconds. And I'm hunting thick cover out of confined stands not tower blinds over open spaces. No time time to fool with binos most of the time.

Or you could just find a better place to hunt.

I don't dispute that but the increased exit pupil over 7mm still provides a distinct improvement in clarity with good glass.

Anybody who's had a slow recovery from PRK can attest to the importance of the distinction between clarity and visibility.

Yep, I'm sure of it. After reading this thread, I'm certain that 3-gun nation and all of the Tier One units will be throwing all their variables in the trash and slapping 6x's on EVERYTHING, even their breaching shotguns.

So if you've already shot a buck in a 1-buck county, you'll take a quick shot (2 seconds) at a "doe" in thick cover at last light?

How do you ID any game if you don't have time to "fool with binos" and "don't point my rifle at a deer without first positively identifying it as such".

Something here just does not compute. Again......Congratulations?

I haven't seen that.

Lol you are too much. I don't shoot any deer in thick cover outside of a very limited range. I shoot them when they move from cover into a shooting lane. But because the shooting lane is surrounded by thick cover I only have a reasonable expectation of a couple of seconds opportunity before they exit the lane.

I kill the first antlerless deer that presents a clean shot. After that I shoot every anterless deer I can be reasonably certain is a mature doe....50+ deer /sq mile. I don't have a one buck limit. I shoot a buck every three years or so. I hunt where there is an earn a buck law. Buttons are treated as antlerless not anterled.

Well maybe you should get some good glass and try it out.

Jeezus Fhuqking Gawd...you AMAZINGLY stupid dumbfhuqks and your contrived delusions,are fhuqking HILARIOUS!

No schit?!? Dinks & Titties are your "Trump Card"? I'm fhuqking crying,I'm laughing soooooooooo fhuqking hard!!!

Wow!

PLEASE connect all dots and hang some "Hero Pics" of these "hard charging" pursuits and muse their "particulars",if only to obliviously bolster the humor quotient.

Knock it out of the fhuqking Park and say something about "heavy cover",how "bino's don't work" and mebbe even something about "weather".

Laffin'!

Points awarded in advance,for citing rifle/boolit "particulars" too,then a trite summation on how "real",Imagination and Pretend are to you. Go for the jugular and say a leetle sumptin' about bag limits and season length too,if only to corroborate your Dumbfhuqktitude.

I know...I know,just like Squat To Pee you can't afford a camera either,are too fhuqking STUPID to use one and you shoot just as "much" as she does.

Bless your heart.

Laffin'!

It simply remains a shame,that you CLUELESS Lying Kchunts are devoid any/all inklings to your absolutely amazing Stupidity.

The ONLY thing(s) you Stupid Fhuqkers "shoot",is your mouths and Imaginations.

Congratulations?!?

Just sayin'.

Laffin'!

If ONLY you could savvy how fhuqking far you are,in over your pointy head.

You Window Licking Clueless Kchunts are a fhuqking HOOT!!!!

Leupold VX-7, Swarovski PH and Z5, S&B Zenith, and Zeiss Diavari don't make your grade?

Maybe you should consider it ain't other folks first rodeo either.

You quoted me before I edited.

How do you ID any game if you don't have time to "fool with binos" and "don't point my rifle at a deer without first positively identifying it as such".

It is not difficult to identify a deer standing in the clear at 100 yards. It's not like it appears as little brown smudge that needs further glassing to determine it's a deer.

My criteria for shooting a buck is age class not rack score and I can tell that within 100 yards so there is no need to study a buck before dropping it.

But I will always check the forehead of a lone doe before dropping it. It only takes a second.

So take your Diavari at last light, start on high power and slowly turn it down. Then note when clarity stops improving. For me that is the lowest power. There is obviously a trade off between magnification and clarity at somepoint. Usually around 4 power for my hunting conditions.

From this statement and others you have made.....I don't understand why you're saying you need a $2,500 scope.



And you also said you don't point your rifle....therefore....don't ID game with your scope. You seem to be contradicting yourself.

Either you need something other than your bare eyes or you don't.

Color me......confused with a sorry-azzed Leupold 6x42 scope that apparently doesn't work in low light.

Which do you think looks like something other than a deer....the button or the doe?

A $300 Nikon is just fine. I reference the varipoint because that happens to be the scope I was using 2 weeks ago when I was in a last light situation and did the dial down test.

Even in the height of day, clarity is very important, especially when there are a lot of shadows in the woodscape.

I've done the first and last light "doe or button" question many times with many scopes and a few binoculars. It's an important question since there are fines on our lease for shooting buttons.

Sometimes when I wasn't going to shoot I took time and fiddled with the scope magnification up and down checking things out. With a wide variety of scopes, as long as there is sufficient exit pupil, magnification helps resolve things.

It's become kind of moot for me since I've been using high quality binoculars.

It's pretty funny to read about the need for uber glass to bonk a doe at less than a 100 yards. $2500 plus glass for a 75 lbs dink, sound pretty damn stupid. If I were to lose a bet and end up needing to fill a doe tag, I'd go fishing...

It's pretty nice to be in an area where doe shooting ain't an issue. Only slicks from Portlandia shoot does and dinks around Jefferson.

Usually it's a trashco mounted on a maga mag with store bought blammo, wearing the latest $1000 cool guy camo. Maybe a tacticool leg mounted pistol rig to boot. All of that is really important to hang out the drivers side window to doink some old lady's pet deer.

Nice mowed grass next to the cattle pond, extra points for the drive way leading to the stand.

If he's actually addressing me, then he's off the mark. All I was discussing was a particular point of clarity vs. magnification.

Ain't you Mathman.

I didn't really think so, but my name got tagged. Within the blast radius I guess.

I went through a phase of trying out fancy stuff, 56mm front ends, and so on. These days if you look at a rifle I'm aiming at a deer/pig, it's most likely to be topped with a 6x42 Leupold. I do have one 6x42 Swarovski that's easy to get behind, and optically fantastic, but its reticle is a bit fine in the middle.

Leupold M8-4x would be pretty hard to beat IMO.

Pretty sure Rogue should have been addressing readonly's comments.

Readonly is the one that thinks you need a $2,500 scope to see the difference between a button and a doe....but of course, he doesn't point his rifle at anything until he ID's it.

Oh....AND he doesn't have time to use BINOCULARS!

That's pretty funny....me too!

Here's a Coke bottle at 15 feet through a 6x scope. If you can't make the shot at 15 feet you are likely a Jerry Lewis telethon recipient.

Scott you talking to me? Or was i just next in line for quick response?

FFE

Looks perfect for azz-shootin dinks.

I certain that ALL 3-gunners will just crank their scope up to max power and throw their cat-tails in the trash after reading what swabbie-turned bus driver has to say on the subject.

Post a pic, any pic, besides your black cum slurping mother.

I had 2 WGS 4.75X scopes. Was really happy to own them for their lightness and brightness. The close out price was a nice bonus. A bit short on eye relief but extension bases solved that problem. Both failed to hold zero even when new and were sent to CS for repair. CS said no repair was possible but would replace or refund. I took the refund. I wished that they would have repaired them.

Other men's loins, apparently with extra melanin, are always at the front of your feeble brain.

That's schitty luck. Wonder why they wouldn't repair them??

I've had 2 and both held zero. Still have one and wish I wouldn't have sold the other.

My impression talking to the CS representative, it is ATK's business model to replace or refund in lieu of warranty work on discontinued models. I imagine it is far more economical to pull a new scope from inventory than to stock all the pieces and parts needed to repair all the optics ATK guarantees.

Since I refused the models they offered to replace my scopes with, I got the refund.

Not sure if you're really this dense or if you're just trying to push buttons. Either way, if you can't have a rational discussion....I'm done wasting time.

Set all your variables on 6x, and hunt with them for the whole year...see for yourself. That's what I did. Took game as close 15 yrds, not a problem.

Having said that, I think a 4x would suit your needs just fine.

Good.

Werent some guys saying there was an "eye relief" mounting issue on long actions?? Curious as to how it works out for you.

Ive own a couple of the older K4's one on a long one on a short...never an issue with me.

He loves to stir the pot, he's trolling you. Your caught in his sites now and he won't stop until others pile on.

He will search all your posts like it's an obsession and comment

Been there

I had an older K6 from probably 10 or so years ago. I couldn't find a rifle to mount it on and get adequate eye relief (other than rimfires). As I recall, the specs at the time listed the eye relief at a little over 3". They currently list eye relief at 3.6" which would be a big improvement. It was a decent scope, but sold it off due to eye relief - sounds like maybe the newer ones are better?

If you put one on a short action.

Never had an issue mounting Weaver "Ks" on long actions, going to put one on the next M98 I get done.

I guess you're still butthurt about this thread....where I was further pointing out your hypocrisy after Al had already brought it up and several others had already commented on it. I definitely was not the first to pile on here....and I didn't search your posts at all......Al did, thank goodness. I guess you hold a grudge against most of the members here that commented. Good luck!


http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/7600333/all

It's unfortunate, but I know the type. Got their butt kicked all through high school, not enough attention at home, whatever the case deep sense of inadequacy that they somehow think they're overcoming by being a tool and douchebag on the internet.

I'm sure in person he would just sit down and shut up.

LOL. Not at all surprised a major hypocrite and a contradictor caught in the act would flock together. Have fun with yourselves, boys.

Good to know.

Tim, I've yet to try the new Weavers however I had an older 70s metal K4 on a 45/70 for over 20 years. It was a very durable scope and gave zero problems.

Shod

told you

He may have Heaven in name, but I doubt he will see it

What does that have to do with the OPs question?

Shod

To the OP, If you want a fixed power scope, I sure do like the Leupold 6x36. I would probably put a #1 reticle in it and rock on.

If you went variable I would like to see a 3-9x40 Trijicon on that rifle with a Green BAC reticle.

WOW!

I was happy with a new style K4 on a long-action 700. I tried to use the K6 on a long-action 77. It seemed good at the range, but out hunting in heavy clothing it was unusable. I couldn't get my eye close enough to the scope.

Eye relief is only about a quarter inch longer on the 4x versus the 6x. Same length, dimensions, etc. Maybe it was the Ruger rings that didn't allow it??

I'll be using them with reversed Talley's up front on the long actions. So we shall see.

It is funny, though....that Weaver doesn't list the tube length for mounting. I couldn't find that spec anywhere.

I thought this was a family oriented forum.

Shod

It is, I included his family. If he don't like it, he shouldn't have started it.

I only checked specs on Midway earlier today and they listed 3.3" on the K4 and 3.6" on the K6. Wonder if they have a typo and those are reversed? I would expect the 4 to have more than the 6... I feel part of the mounting/eye relief issues I've had were related to the short tube length and long taper on the objective bell that prevents the scope from being positioned far enough back.

Weaver's website lists 3.43" for the K4 & 3.15" for the K6.

That's more what I remember from my old one - definite no-go for me...

So why does the consensus seem to be that you need a 6x scope for a 200 yard shot? Give me the extra field of view and faster target acquisition of a 4x or a 2.5x at that range. A 6x on a "brush gun" is kind of like doing trim work with a framing hammer sure you can pull it off, but there are better tools for the job.

yes I have one on a muzzle loader and plan to buy another or move the one I have to a cartridge rifle. I will probably wind up with another Meopta Meopro with the #4 for my Kimber 308.

here is my pretend scenario that I just dreamed up, your sitting in a ground blind in Georgia at sunset plus 20 on a dirt road in an oak thicket, your hear a deer walking briskly thru the leaves up the hill and it pops out about 50 yards away and is walking briskly across the road, what do you have in your hands your bino's or your rifle? I guess you have 4-5 seconds. Again I don't hunt much but like to watch it on TV so just wondering.

Tim,

You are absolutely correct! Why give up so much feild of veiw? Bobin also offered a word of wisdom back on I believe page 2.

Doesn't make a whole lot of sence putting a 600 yd scope on a 200 yd rifle.

Shod

You can't pay for this kind of humor.

I have nothing against 6x scopes. I have plenty of experience with them over nearly four decades, and currently own 3, but I wouldn't have one on a .444 Marlin. IMHO a 4x makes much better sense, and is much better suited in particular to shots which may be close and on fast moving game, where my own direct experience tells me a 6x is not as well suited, as well as having plenty of magnification for shots out to the 200 yard mark.

As I said some pages back, that is what I found worked very well on my own Marlin, and what I have for a similar application on a 9.3.

I never offered to pay!

Shod

If by chance you don't shoot with both eyes open, then give it some practice time and you will see the FOV is not all that different.

Both eyes open are the way to go. Some guys can do it with 10x at pretty close range but that's not the norm. If you're a right handed shooter and slightly left eye dominate you won the genetic lotto.

A right handed shooter who is strongly right eye dominant is going to have a very hard time shooting both eyes.

we have to have a picture of see through mounts to be complete.

Hammer back, AO 50 mm glass and the sticker on the forearm. Outstanding!

I'm RH/RE dominate for the most part and have some issues at the bench with flipping. However on game it goes away. Anything over 6x it becomes more of an issue.

Fat or uncluttered reticles make it much easier. A big dot seems to work best. Big dots are not all that easy to obtain these days. Have been considering trying illuminated, but haven't got around to it.

the VX-6 ain't too bad reticle wise..

My perfect woods rifle may be a 3-4x with a floating 4min dot. Can't get Leupold to do it.

For me a fixed with a post and duplex probably works as well.

Squirrel huntin rig?