I'm looking at purchasing a Vortex Razor HD Spotting scope. Other than having more magnification and a little better light gathering quality at dusk/dawn, what(if any) are the main advantages of going with the 85mm?


The hunts I plan to use it on are antelope, mule deer, and elk. For antelope it will be used to glass from the vehicle some, but the rest of the hunting will be walk-in/backpack hunting.

I know the 85mm is heavier an bulkier. However, is it worth the extra weight? Is there a difference in clarity between the 2 scopes at the same magnifications during good light? Does a 65mm at 30 power have the same quality as an 85mm at 30 power? How is the clarity on higher powers of a 65mm?

I don't need to be able to score an animal from 3 miles. I want to be able to get a good look at an animal from a distance.

for packing go with the 65....

It would seem that the 65mm would be more useful - easier to pack, hang from a window, easier to use I a field expedient position(sans tripod). I have been pondering the same myself for the same purposes.

The 85 is amazing. Worth packing. I've been carrying it up the sheep mountains the last couple of years, and it's been worth it.

Jordan,
How is the clarity on the higher power?

It's fantastic. Brightness decreases slightly at max power, as is expected, but clarity and resolution remains excellent.

Thanks

That's b/c you're a young stud!! 😉. I have the 85mm Razor and it truly is great, but if I were looking for a new spotter that I would be packin, I'd be looking for a 65mm....but I wouldn't go less than 65.

and I wouldn't go chinese.......

Get a Meopta .Way better scope.You will be happier in the long run.
http://www.cameralandny.com/optics2/meopta.pl?page=meopta598880

Have you used both to determine the Meopta is a superior scope?

Huntsman,
What scope would your recommend? I have an opportunity to get a Vortex at 45-50% off so that's why I'm leaning that way.

Both are Superior to the Razor.yes I bought a razor and sent it back.In layman terms(it sucks next to Meopta).

Huntz-

So you've owned and compared the Razor 85mm and the Meopta 80mm side by side?

I have a hard time believing that the Razor compares so poorly, since I've seen guys that preferred the Razor over Swaro scopes when compared side by side.

I've never looked through either of the two. What, in your opinion, makes the Meopta better? Is it more clear? Better light gathering? All of the above?

Well, all of that and the lenses don`t fall out.

With that kind of a discount opportunity, I wouldn't bother comparing any further.

Awaiting your reply...

The Vortex are that good?

I'm gonna google these things.



Travis

When it comes to glass of this quality it is all about your individual eye...my Swaro 65mm HD was much better than the vortex and the meopta, to me at least.

As far as 65mm vs 80/85mm, that's a tough tradeoff. I've never felt handicapped with my 65mm, but I have played with various 80/85mm scopes at first and last light and I must say they're somewhat brighter. Your personal vision may agree with this or it may not, and whether the better view is worth the extra weight or not is also subjective to your eye and what kind of shape you're in..

It all comes down to trying as many as you can before you buy. Don't just try them in the store if possible.

I've personally had my S2 side by side with the Kowa 884 Prominar, one of the best spotters on the planet. I kept the S2, sold the 884....it's that good.

Here's what Outdoor life said about it in 2013...

http://www.petersenshunting.com/featured/bes-spotting-scopes-of-2013/

Using the 30–60X WA EP, the field 
of view was incredible with virtually undetectable color fringing. This is a damn fine scope. The image is expansive. Controls are easy to manipulate but a bit stiff when fine-tuning.

The MeoStar offers a very sharp, crisp image with a hint of warm tint. In fact, this scope posted near-perfect scores during the two 100-yard resolution tests. Edge sharpness was excellent, but missed perfection due to curvature at the very edge of the field. Normally, a wide-angle EP gives up eye relief, but not with this one. Four-eyed observers rejoice.

Color fidelity was true and even better than the more expensive Nikon EDG. The friction in the adjustment wheel is perfect, and the MeoStar offers a perfect weight balance, which translates to minimal 
image distortion when panning, focusing, or tracking moving objects.

At 46X, we observed reduced brightness, but sharpness remained excellent through 58X. It was no problem reading signage placed at one mile. In fact, it bested the Leica in this aspect of our comparison. The Meopta is an incredible optic. It’s so good some of our testers almost preferred the Meopta to the mighty Swarovski. That says a lot.

Priced at $2,200—less than Leupold’s GR—the MeoStar earns our Best Buy Award for offering an image that rivals scopes costing twice as much.

SCORE: 93
Price: $2,200

The Vortex dainty knobs is for fair-weather, girly-fingered focus guys. The swaro and meostar are for the manly-handed types. Or those that wear gloves or mittens in colder weather.....

My reply was two posts above yours.

I can't think of a reason in the world to buy a Vortex at retail price when a used Swaro can be had for similar money.

Even when the price is right on a Vortex, the product is wrong.

Can't fathom spending alpha glass money on non-alpha glass either.

But the OP made it clear he has an UBER discount, so kudos to our Canadian friend for the input. I had no idea Vortex spotters were even worth considering.




Dave

Don,

Looks like you have twice as many as you need. Better send me one. As much as I like my Razor, I'd send it to you in return. <Grin>

Guess I missed the 50% off deal the first time through. If the OP could pick one of these up for 8 or 9 hundred bucks, it would probably be worth the money. Even then, a few hundred more dollars could likely find a used Swaro. If budget is not the primary factor, spending a bit more for top quality is rarely a bad choice.

You didn't reply to me or my question...

Prairie_goat,

Have you owned a Razor spotter?



Huntsman,

Razors are for men who don't need mittens in cold weather *grin*



Dave,

Yes, they're that good. If you recall at the icebreaker shoot we were both at a couple years ago, George Gardner's crew pulled up with about $100,000 worth of rifles and optics, including a handful of 85mm Razor spotters. Pretty sure they could have brought Meoptas or Swaros if they really wanted...

Yeah, maybe. I would be willing to bet it was some kinda business deal, as I really can't see those guys paying full retail for chinese stuff when they are known for high end quality.....

I've not owned a Razor HD, but I've spent a little time behind one. It was nice, but I sure wouldn't pay full retail for one. At the end of the day, it's still a Vortex.

I usually only admire my own stuff and self. But I wish I had noticed them so I could have checked them out. That's one of the nicest things about that gathering is being able to try gear you don't have.

I think the first year I went I was able to look through a Leica, a Zeiss and a Swaro. It was then that I decided I couldn't tell the difference between any of them, so I just bought the best deal I could find which ended up being a Zeiss.



Travis

I've been playing with a 65 Razor for a few months and am pretty impressed. I can see a very slight difference in clarity compared to a non HD Swaro but some that have compared them with me don't see a difference at all.

I've had a 65mm Razor for a couple years now. No complaints at all.

I have owned both the Vortex Razor 85mm and the Meopta S2 82mm scope and the Meopta is a better spotter IMO. Does it blow it away in side by side comparisons? Nope. Its just a better quality spotter from front to back and top to bottom.

To the OP, If you can get a screaming deal on the Razor then get it, theres nothing wrong with it and the warranty is pretty damn amazing. It'll do anything you'll want it to do

LOL, I just checked the price difference on Midway for a 65mm Razor vs a 65mm Swaro.

$1199 (complete scope/eyepiece) vs $4078 (body + eyepiece).

I certainly HOPE the Swaro is a better scope.

I can't presume to say what kind of arrangements they have, but they certainly didn't show up with a stack of Vortex gear. Their riflescopes, rangefinders, binos, etc, were of all different high-end brands and models. The only item that I noticed being exclusively of one model was their spotters...

And BTW, why do you say the Razor spotter is made in China?

As you know, Vortex doesn't make anything. Kind of like Bushnell. You can get Vortex (or Bushnell) products ranging from bottom-tier stuff made in China, like the Crossfire, Sportview, etc, to products that compete with top-tier stuff, like the Razor, ERS, LRHS, etc, which are all made in Japan.

Get a life.All your questions were answered in my posts.You are just looking for an internet bitchfight.

Agreed about the IBS! Hanging out with awesome guys (especially you, Dave), and playing with awesome gear is worth the trip. Of course any day spent shooting guns and banging steel is better than even the best day of work.

I'd say you did it right. Hard to go wrong with any of the top-tier stuff.

Thanks for the input. I've not played with the Meopta, which is why I asked.

Nope, I'm just considering the source of your comments, and trying to determine if your opinions are based off of unbiased facts while owning and comparing the two scopes side-by-side, or if you're just another anti-Vortex zealot.

You've answered my question by not answering it.

i will make it clear for you as you do not seem to have the ability to glean information out of my past posts in this thread.Yes I have had both.I bought them a Cabelas.Side by side I preferred the Meopta .The front lense fell out of The Razor.I returned it to Cabelas and they gave me my money back.I have had good luck with buying Swarovski,Meopta and Zeiss.You can buy them once and very seldom have to return them.Swarovski completely rebuild a pair of 20 year old 7X42 SLCs when I sent them in to be cleaned at no cost to me with a 2 week turn around time.The salesman at Cabelas said they had a lot of complaints about Vortex quality .I have two 2X7 Vortex Viper scopes on lever action rifles .They are OK,but just OK.I learned a long time ago to stick the manufacturers that have a good rep and have been around for a while.If you like to buy an inferior product at a premium price I would indorse Vortex.You are going to need their good warranty.I would just as soon own something I know will not fail me on a hunt that I have sunk a lot of time and money into.Have a nice day,Huntz

Thank you, Huntz.

My experience with Vortex and other brands has been quite different from yours, and just to clarify, my stuff doesn't sit in the safe or on the shelf to be admired. I've had a higher proportion of Leupold and Zeiss product that I've had to send in for warranty work, than Vortex stuff. Particularly the higher-end Vortex stuff in the Razor line. I haven't had a chance to compare like models of Razor and Meopta spotters, which is why I asked if you were able to compare the two side-by-side. You're opinion of how they compare is a fair bit more drastic than other reviews I've seen, hence my question to you earlier.

I'm sure you'll continue to be well served by your Swaro, Meopta, and Zeiss stuff, so it makes sense for you to keep using what you're confident in!

Do not have anything against Vortex products by posting this- just clarification and accuracy.

The Vortex Razor spotting scopes are definitely Made in China. Originally the 85's were first Made in Japan. But ever since the introduction of the 50 mm Razor; all of the Razor spotting scope line has been manufactured in China. Says so on the spotting scopes and Vortex will confirm. I think it says something like "Made in PRC" - ie People's Republic of China.

Now, regarding the Razor line of binoculars- they are a Made in Japan product.

I wasn't going to chime in again, but since they are now made in China, you may as well save a few bucks and look at the Zen Ray ED spotter, and the Vanguard ED. Both are Chinese as well, cheaper, and just as good optically.

I bet the MSRP hasn't dropped on the Chinese Vortex Razor either.

Is this an assumption, or have you compared them?

My Razor doesn't say that. On one accessory piece it says that it's made in China, so I've got an email in to Vortex to ask if the entire spotter is made in China, or just the accessory piece. It'll be disappointing if the manufacturing of the line of Razor spotters has indeed been moved to China from Japan.

Although there are parts that come from China in most major optics brands and models, regardless of what many wish to believe...

I wouldn't have said "just as good" if I hadn't compared them myself. My buddy owns the local shop and gets/has/has had most everything over the past year or two trying to figure out what sells. He does not carry Zen Ray or Vanguard anymore BTW.

Thanks for sharing, good info

How about tripods? Will any basic tripod that supports a 65mm be able to support an 80 or 85mm?

Do you own a Swaro spotter?

Dink

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-razor-hd-20-60x85-angled-spotting-scope
Under Q & A:

Where are the Razor HD spotting scopes made?

Razor HD spotters are made by Vortex in China, however all design, engineering, testing/evaluation, service work, inspection, and warranty repairs are done right here in Middleton, WI.

Kind of disappointing, but good to know. Thanks.

Just an FYI, I heard back from Vortex this morning, and they confirmed that last year they moved production of their Razor spotters from Japan to China. They did, however, make quite an effort to assure me that they personally inspect every Razor spotter in WI to make sure it meets their specifications. I know it shouldn't make a difference where it's made since most every optic has some Chinese parts or labour in it, but I'd honestly just prefer that it come from a Japanese factory in the first place, rather than Vortex having to justify and try to console its customers about the big "Made in China" label on the product.

If I ignore the origin of manufacture, it's still an amazing scope. It's solid, well-built, adjustments are smooth but firm, optically it's fantastic, etc. I really shouldn't let its origin influence my opinion of how the scope has performed for me, nor how I feel about its performance in the future.

I think that is a fair assessment Jordan. The Chinese origin of the Razor spotter is a little disappointing but that is the way it goes to maintain cost targets I'd imagine.

I will say that I had a 7x36 bino from China that outperformed an 8x30 Swaro SLC-neu by a fairly wide margin so its not like Chinese optics are in the stone age. But, that Chinese bino "wore" pretty quick and wouldn't be considered an heirloom in my view. But since many of us are churners, and consider many pieces of gear disposable this isn't the end of the world. It allows you to get really good gear for a fair price, then move on to the next "latest and greatest". Sometimes "resale value" of an alpha optic is simply not part of the equation.

I have no interest in any Vortex products, but understand that they supply decent products for the market. I suspect that the majority of hunters want a $300-500 rifle and optics that don't kill the family budget. Vortex, Zen Ray, and others fill that niche for optics. Vortex is definitely very popular with many hunters right now and have good customer service. A Razor spotter is relatively low cost, low risk option for many.

Jason

Getting back to the actual topic,

The real difference between 65 and 85mm,

is the actual fact that the 85 tends to get left behind way more often, due to weight and size. That is fact.

You want a truck scope? go 85.

Portability, backpacking, go 65.

Maybe yours does. My 85mm goes with me each and every time. There's ALWAYS room in my pack for my spotter when hunting open country. That, is a fact.

How much extry weight we talking for the 85 vs the 65? About 12 to 16 ounces?

Yes Jordan, your a stud, we understand that.

The average post on these forums is a guy looking to cut 4 oz by going with an aftermarket floor plate, fluting the barrel and skeletonizing the bolt.


The average 85mm scope and quality tripod(if used) can add total weights equal to or above the weight of the rifle your carrying, when it comes right down to it, the average person is not going to carry two rifles.

For the dedicated athletic Mountain Hunter wearing a backpack, feel free to go 85, but if your purpose is to buy 'lifetime" glass, just make sure your priorities are the same 5-10 years down the road.

YMMV.

My swaro weighs 47 oz, the 85 razor lists at 65+, so a little over a pound, plus additional length and girth. It all adds up,

enough to stop a hunt? hell no, but when it's time to minimize, I know the first thing the average guy will leave behind.

Again, YMMV.

LOL. If I'm on a hunt where a spotter is a major asset, I'd rather cut that pound somewhere else than in the glass I'm packing...

Prairie goat?

Dink

I've never really had a problem with 60-65 mm objectives; it seemed like a good compromise of optical quality to weight/bulk. That being said, I could certainly see how the guy looking to eke out every advantage would go with an 80mm. Especially someone who may, for example, guide hunters and need to make a good estimate on whether the ram 3/4 of a mile away will go 180 or just 175, as the client may not be interested in him if he's smaller.

It doesn't take but a time or two of having to traverse a bunch of extra terrain and waste a bunch of time, just to have someone turn down an animal that was "close but not quite what I'm looking for".......to go with the equipment that may save all that hassle.

The question is, whether that added weight, bulk, and expense will save any of these scenarios from happening, or whether this is something that's even an issue for your individual hunting. I think that's something for each of us to answer for ourselves, hopefully after trying them out in the field. One way a guy could try some different spotters out is with a rental service. I've not done it myself, but it seems like a good way to test some different products without dropping too much money. I'm fortunate in that I get to try out a decent number of optics brought by clients. Not many bring spotting scopes, but I've had the opportunity to field test a few high end (and some not so high end) spotters this way.

I think one area that is often overlooked for weight savings is the pack used. Many are boat anchors. For example, a friend uses a Horn Hunter pack which weighs 8 lbs, empty. My Kifaru is 5 lbs, with 7000 in^3.

Other than the cost, I'd rather carry the 80-85mm in a Kifaru than a 60-65mm in an average pack... and still be lighter. I guess its just different ways to skin the cat, but I wouldn't be surprised that many who complain about rifle and spotter weights are using packs that weight 8-9 lbs empty. Not saying this is you, but I know its overlooked by some.

Just hunt with Jordan and leave your spotter in the truck.

Then carry a flask of bourbon....

I carry, and really like, my Leupy 12-40x60GR

YMMV.

Maybe that is a unfair question.

Prairie Goat what 60-65mm spotter do you personally own?

Dink

Good point. I'm carrying a 4.5lbs Paradox pack, so that helps.

Ok, maybe that was a unfair question too.

Prairie Goat do you even own a spotting scope?

Dink

Haha, just toggled you off of ignore, figuring you might have something to add to the conversation. As usual, that is not the case.

Hell, I ain't never owned no spotting scope. Just crank ma' 6-24x50 Tasco rifle scope up to max power for spotting duties.

There is a lot of truth in that post.

It's a simple question.

What spotter did you actually buy?

No one is interested in what your clients bring for you to use.

Dink

Actually, no one is interested in your inane questions, or answering them....

and that's just some more 'truth'.....

www.betterviewdesired.com
www.cameralandny.com
Spend a whole evening in the first website, then call the second and listen to the salesperson's comments/recommendations.

It is a very personal question. I guess there is no one size that fits all. I always take my 20-60x82 ZEN ED2 spotter with me for most of the hunting trips

Oh he wants to answer but he can't. Old Goat is just a regurgitator. He has very little experience with quality optics or firearms but he sure likes to post about them.

Like I said it was a simple question.

Dink

and like I said.....

65 vs 85mm? Everyone's stitiation is different. Would I hike around with a tripod and a spotter-no. Too much weight for me. I carry a good pair of binoculars which I use a lot and leave the spotter in the truck. If you must have a spotter besides optics and price differences, there are weight differences between makes.