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Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith


Dave,

Yes, they're that good. If you recall at the icebreaker shoot we were both at a couple years ago, George Gardner's crew pulled up with about $100,000 worth of rifles and optics, including a handful of 85mm Razor spotters. Pretty sure they could have brought Meoptas or Swaros if they really wanted...


I usually only admire my own stuff and self. But I wish I had noticed them so I could have checked them out. That's one of the nicest things about that gathering is being able to try gear you don't have.

I think the first year I went I was able to look through a Leica, a Zeiss and a Swaro. It was then that I decided I couldn't tell the difference between any of them, so I just bought the best deal I could find which ended up being a Zeiss.



Travis


Agreed about the IBS! Hanging out with awesome guys (especially you, Dave), and playing with awesome gear is worth the trip. Of course any day spent shooting guns and banging steel is better than even the best day of work.

I'd say you did it right. Hard to go wrong with any of the top-tier stuff.

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Originally Posted by huntsonora
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Huntz-

So you've owned and compared the Razor 85mm and the Meopta 80mm side by side?

I have a hard time believing that the Razor compares so poorly, since I've seen guys that preferred the Razor over Swaro scopes when compared side by side.


I have owned both the Vortex Razor 85mm and the Meopta S2 82mm scope and the Meopta is a better spotter IMO. Does it blow it away in side by side comparisons? Nope. Its just a better quality spotter from front to back and top to bottom.

To the OP, If you can get a screaming deal on the Razor then get it, theres nothing wrong with it and the warranty is pretty damn amazing. It'll do anything you'll want it to do


Thanks for the input. I've not played with the Meopta, which is why I asked.

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Originally Posted by Huntz
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by Huntz
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Huntz-

So you've owned and compared the Razor 85mm and the Meopta 80mm side by side?

I have a hard time believing that the Razor compares so poorly, since I've seen guys that preferred the Razor over Swaro scopes when compared side by side.


Awaiting your reply...


My reply was two posts above yours.


You didn't reply to me or my question...


Get a life.All your questions were answered in my posts.You are just looking for an internet bitchfight.


Nope, I'm just considering the source of your comments, and trying to determine if your opinions are based off of unbiased facts while owning and comparing the two scopes side-by-side, or if you're just another anti-Vortex zealot.

You've answered my question by not answering it.

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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by Huntz
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by Huntz
[quote=Jordan Smith][quote=Jordan Smith]Huntz-

So you've owned and compared the Razor 85mm and the Meopta 80mm side by side?

I have a hard time believing that the Razor compares so poorly, since I've seen guys that preferred the Razor over Swaro scopes when compared side by side.


Awaiting your reply...


My reply was two posts above yours.


You didn't reply to me or my question...


i will make it clear for you as you do not seem to have the ability to glean information out of my past posts in this thread.Yes I have had both.I bought them a Cabelas.Side by side I preferred the Meopta .The front lense fell out of The Razor.I returned it to Cabelas and they gave me my money back.I have had good luck with buying Swarovski,Meopta and Zeiss.You can buy them once and very seldom have to return them.Swarovski completely rebuild a pair of 20 year old 7X42 SLCs when I sent them in to be cleaned at no cost to me with a 2 week turn around time.The salesman at Cabelas said they had a lot of complaints about Vortex quality .I have two 2X7 Vortex Viper scopes on lever action rifles .They are OK,but just OK.I learned a long time ago to stick the manufacturers that have a good rep and have been around for a while.If you like to buy an inferior product at a premium price I would indorse Vortex.You are going to need their good warranty.I would just as soon own something I know will not fail me on a hunt that I have sunk a lot of time and money into.Have a nice day,Huntz


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Thank you, Huntz.

My experience with Vortex and other brands has been quite different from yours, and just to clarify, my stuff doesn't sit in the safe or on the shelf to be admired. I've had a higher proportion of Leupold and Zeiss product that I've had to send in for warranty work, than Vortex stuff. Particularly the higher-end Vortex stuff in the Razor line. I haven't had a chance to compare like models of Razor and Meopta spotters, which is why I asked if you were able to compare the two side-by-side. You're opinion of how they compare is a fair bit more drastic than other reviews I've seen, hence my question to you earlier.

I'm sure you'll continue to be well served by your Swaro, Meopta, and Zeiss stuff, so it makes sense for you to keep using what you're confident in!




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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by prairie_goat
I've not owned a Razor HD, but I've spent a little time behind one. It was nice, but I sure wouldn't pay full retail for one. At the end of the day, it's still a Vortex.


As you know, Vortex doesn't make anything. Kind of like Bushnell. You can get Vortex (or Bushnell) products ranging from bottom-tier stuff made in China, like the Crossfire, Sportview, etc, to products that compete with top-tier stuff, like the Razor, ERS, LRHS, etc, which are all made in Japan.


Do not have anything against Vortex products by posting this- just clarification and accuracy.

The Vortex Razor spotting scopes are definitely Made in China. Originally the 85's were first Made in Japan. But ever since the introduction of the 50 mm Razor; all of the Razor spotting scope line has been manufactured in China. Says so on the spotting scopes and Vortex will confirm. I think it says something like "Made in PRC" - ie People's Republic of China.

Now, regarding the Razor line of binoculars- they are a Made in Japan product.

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I wasn't going to chime in again, but since they are now made in China, you may as well save a few bucks and look at the Zen Ray ED spotter, and the Vanguard ED. Both are Chinese as well, cheaper, and just as good optically.

I bet the MSRP hasn't dropped on the Chinese Vortex Razor either.


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Originally Posted by JGRaider
I wasn't going to chime in again, but since they are now made in China, you may as well save a few bucks and look at the Zen Ray ED spotter, and the Vanguard ED. Both are Chinese as well, cheaper, and just as good optically.


Is this an assumption, or have you compared them?

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Originally Posted by llama2
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by prairie_goat
I've not owned a Razor HD, but I've spent a little time behind one. It was nice, but I sure wouldn't pay full retail for one. At the end of the day, it's still a Vortex.


As you know, Vortex doesn't make anything. Kind of like Bushnell. You can get Vortex (or Bushnell) products ranging from bottom-tier stuff made in China, like the Crossfire, Sportview, etc, to products that compete with top-tier stuff, like the Razor, ERS, LRHS, etc, which are all made in Japan.


Do not have anything against Vortex products by posting this- just clarification and accuracy.

The Vortex Razor spotting scopes are definitely Made in China. Originally the 85's were first Made in Japan. But ever since the introduction of the 50 mm Razor; all of the Razor spotting scope line has been manufactured in China. Says so on the spotting scopes and Vortex will confirm. I think it says something like "Made in PRC" - ie People's Republic of China.

Now, regarding the Razor line of binoculars- they are a Made in Japan product.


My Razor doesn't say that. On one accessory piece it says that it's made in China, so I've got an email in to Vortex to ask if the entire spotter is made in China, or just the accessory piece. It'll be disappointing if the manufacturing of the line of Razor spotters has indeed been moved to China from Japan.

Although there are parts that come from China in most major optics brands and models, regardless of what many wish to believe...

Last edited by Jordan Smith; 09/14/15. Reason: Add clarity
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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by JGRaider
I wasn't going to chime in again, but since they are now made in China, you may as well save a few bucks and look at the Zen Ray ED spotter, and the Vanguard ED. Both are Chinese as well, cheaper, and just as good optically.


Is this an assumption, or have you compared them?


I wouldn't have said "just as good" if I hadn't compared them myself. My buddy owns the local shop and gets/has/has had most everything over the past year or two trying to figure out what sells. He does not carry Zen Ray or Vanguard anymore BTW.


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Originally Posted by JGRaider
I've personally had my S2 side by side with the Kowa 884 Prominar, one of the best spotters on the planet. I kept the S2, sold the 884....it's that good.

Here's what Outdoor life said about it in 2013...

http://www.petersenshunting.com/featured/bes-spotting-scopes-of-2013/

Using the 30–60X WA EP, the field 
of view was incredible with virtually undetectable color fringing. This is a damn fine scope. The image is expansive. Controls are easy to manipulate but a bit stiff when fine-tuning.

The MeoStar offers a very sharp, crisp image with a hint of warm tint. In fact, this scope posted near-perfect scores during the two 100-yard resolution tests. Edge sharpness was excellent, but missed perfection due to curvature at the very edge of the field. Normally, a wide-angle EP gives up eye relief, but not with this one. Four-eyed observers rejoice.

Color fidelity was true and even better than the more expensive Nikon EDG. The friction in the adjustment wheel is perfect, and the MeoStar offers a perfect weight balance, which translates to minimal 
image distortion when panning, focusing, or tracking moving objects.

At 46X, we observed reduced brightness, but sharpness remained excellent through 58X. It was no problem reading signage placed at one mile. In fact, it bested the Leica in this aspect of our comparison. The Meopta is an incredible optic. It’s so good some of our testers almost preferred the Meopta to the mighty Swarovski. That says a lot.

Priced at $2,200—less than Leupold’s GR—the MeoStar earns our Best Buy Award for offering an image that rivals scopes costing twice as much.

SCORE: 93
Price: $2,200


[Linked Image]



Thanks for sharing, good info


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How about tripods? Will any basic tripod that supports a 65mm be able to support an 80 or 85mm?


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Originally Posted by prairie_goat
I've not owned a Razor HD, but I've spent a little time behind one. It was nice, but I sure wouldn't pay full retail for one. At the end of the day, it's still a Vortex.


Do you own a Swaro spotter?

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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith


My Razor doesn't say that. On one accessory piece it says that it's made in China, so I've got an email in to Vortex to ask if the entire spotter is made in China, or just the accessory piece. It'll be disappointing if the manufacturing of the line of Razor spotters has indeed been moved to China from Japan.

Although there are parts in most major optics brands and models that come from China, regardless of what many wish to believe...



http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-razor-hd-20-60x85-angled-spotting-scope
Under Q & A:

Where are the Razor HD spotting scopes made?

Razor HD spotters are made by Vortex in China, however all design, engineering, testing/evaluation, service work, inspection, and warranty repairs are done right here in Middleton, WI.

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Kind of disappointing, but good to know. Thanks.

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Just an FYI, I heard back from Vortex this morning, and they confirmed that last year they moved production of their Razor spotters from Japan to China. They did, however, make quite an effort to assure me that they personally inspect every Razor spotter in WI to make sure it meets their specifications. I know it shouldn't make a difference where it's made since most every optic has some Chinese parts or labour in it, but I'd honestly just prefer that it come from a Japanese factory in the first place, rather than Vortex having to justify and try to console its customers about the big "Made in China" label on the product.

If I ignore the origin of manufacture, it's still an amazing scope. It's solid, well-built, adjustments are smooth but firm, optically it's fantastic, etc. I really shouldn't let its origin influence my opinion of how the scope has performed for me, nor how I feel about its performance in the future.

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I think that is a fair assessment Jordan. The Chinese origin of the Razor spotter is a little disappointing but that is the way it goes to maintain cost targets I'd imagine.

I will say that I had a 7x36 bino from China that outperformed an 8x30 Swaro SLC-neu by a fairly wide margin so its not like Chinese optics are in the stone age. But, that Chinese bino "wore" pretty quick and wouldn't be considered an heirloom in my view. But since many of us are churners, and consider many pieces of gear disposable this isn't the end of the world. It allows you to get really good gear for a fair price, then move on to the next "latest and greatest". Sometimes "resale value" of an alpha optic is simply not part of the equation.

I have no interest in any Vortex products, but understand that they supply decent products for the market. I suspect that the majority of hunters want a $300-500 rifle and optics that don't kill the family budget. Vortex, Zen Ray, and others fill that niche for optics. Vortex is definitely very popular with many hunters right now and have good customer service. A Razor spotter is relatively low cost, low risk option for many.

Jason


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Getting back to the actual topic,

The real difference between 65 and 85mm,

is the actual fact that the 85 tends to get left behind way more often, due to weight and size. That is fact.

You want a truck scope? go 85.

Portability, backpacking, go 65.



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Maybe yours does. My 85mm goes with me each and every time. There's ALWAYS room in my pack for my spotter when hunting open country. That, is a fact. wink

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Originally Posted by Kenneth
Getting back to the actual topic,

The real difference between 65 and 85mm,

is the actual fact that the 85 tends to get left behind way more often, due to weight and size. That is fact.

You want a truck scope? go 85.

Portability, backpacking, go 65.




How much extry weight we talking for the 85 vs the 65? About 12 to 16 ounces?


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