Some people who profess to be Christians don’t believe that Jesus was divine. Is this position motivated by a desire to maintain the oneness of God, and is that position itself based on a faulty understanding of the Trinity…?

You've mixed up your terms. Being a Christian means believing Jesus was divine.

Ro 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

That phrase 'Jesus is Lord' means Jesus is God. Without that, you aren't a Christian.

John 14:9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

Rock chuck,

The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away.

I was raised a Jehovahs witness, I dont practice and I am not a very religious person. We were taught Jesus was gods son no trinity. Two separate entities which makes the most sense to me. I believe their has to be a higher being or something that created everything but you have to wonder what kind of [bleep] up sense of humor he has to allow things to continue this way.

The proper question is: Are religion trolls more obnoxious than liberal trolls?

And the answer is: Yes.

Jesus Christ is the same, yesterday today, and tomorrow.

Yes.

Was........and still is

Christ Himself said He was The Son Of God, Divinity in the flesh. I have never heard a believing Christian deny this!?😳
The trinity can be sorta hard for a mortal to grasp. And people tend to make things way more complicated than the need to be.
How can anything exist in 3 separate states at the same time? Ice, water, and steam!
At least every month or so, I read Job 38, where Job questions God, and God answers him from the midst of a storm.
We humans live and exist in a 3 dimensional world. Seeing beyond that is difficult for some. But my faith in God and Christ assures me that there is much much more to this world than I can see or understand.
A long time ago, when I first became saved, a very wise preacher told me that for a mortal person to understand God, would be like a dog to learn algebra!😀
I’m way smarter than MOST dogs, but much more than simple math will really foul me up, and ask
Slummy about my spelling!😀
Reon

I don't know how anyone could look into the Shroud of Turin and not get that Jesus is divine.

This topic , for shure, will be sorted here!

It is a fair question and a seemingly honest one. ( Can we try not to just berate)

I call myself a Christian but will admit, though often feeling I am not 'supposed' to, having struggled with parts of this. I found getting answers often difficult because others can be quick to present themselves as never having struggled- or perhaps that was just me projecting that. The responses here are extolling personal beliefs but doing nothing to answer the OP question. Yes, I am aware of the OP history here - so what.

Ultimately, it was not impossible to find answers. Some very knowledgeable folks right here on the fire. I also get that atheist are commonly huge proselytizers of their own self and many religious folks tire of that and won't engage in conversation.

I questioned, if Jesus was God how could he ask, "Why hast thou forsaken me?"

I wondered why John had to baptize Jesus?

I wondered about the Holy Spirit and 'need' for it.

In the end I am glad I questioned as I did find answers -not just responses to those questions.

I come from my devout Catholic family and still face heat as it is not for me for a large number of reasons- but I am happy for anyone using any method to reach God - through Jesus.

I am hoping someone with better abilities will respond in Christain charity to those questions I raised and think it could help answer some of yours.

One of my favorite passages. Tells me everything I need to know in very few lines.

Galatians 6:14

Erik, someone else , an agnostic, once told me about a theory that Earths very existence, all human history, is nothing more than a vast computer program playing on endlessly!😀
I am really kinda dumbfounded as to how someone who claims to be agnostic, questioning Gods very existence, can even imagine such a cockamamie idea that every living being is a very detailed computer program!😀
Talk about crazy!

This isn’t a Santa Claus is Santa Claus till he isn’t Santa Claus Question is it ..

Let’s see..

Every Religious Deity that has ever walked this Earth has contributed to the Dust on Planet Earth except One ..

And He ain’t Happy ..

No it ain’t Santa Claus ..

King James, New King James, NIV, all read the same:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


Jehovahs Witness, New World Translation, 2013 Revision:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

For some reason, the NWT translators took the same construct in the original Greek that they translated as little "g" god in John 1:1, and translated it as capital "G" God in John 1:6, 1:12, 1:13, and 1:18. Curious...

Jesus answered the question Himself about who He is and revealed He is God. Only God can forgive sin, heal the blind, create the universe, be the source of all life and over all humanity, have power over disease and demons, and rise from the dead.

Jesus is equal to the Father, but He became man to secure our salvation.

God is one in essence and three in person: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

God said in Genesis 1:26, “Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness.” (That’s more than one)

Isaiah 48:16, “The Lord God and his Spirit hath sent me.” (That’s more than one)

There is plenty of scripture that shows Jesus is God.

Jesus declared his eternal self-existence in John 8:58, “Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”

Jesus is the ever-existing, eternal Almighty God, the I AM.

“He that has seen me has seen the Father,” John 14:9

“I and my Father are one,” John 10:30

“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, which was, and which is to come, the Almighty,” Revelation 1:8

“Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ, Titus 2:13

“I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me,” John 14:6

Also Hebrews 1:8, John 1:1-14

The lost will refuse to believe and will remain in everlasting rebellion. Sad that many choose not to believe, as the evidence is overwhelming.

Lol
They did the math. I recently read "Stalking the Wild Pendulum". Three times actually. I still don't understand what I read.

Thanks for that WhiteTail48.

https://archaix.com/ this guy gives all the chronology that proves we live in a simulation. It's undeniable. He uses the chronology of the scriptures and many other texts that go but in antiquities, cross referencing it all from multiple vantage points showing our true history,how religion is used to control the masses. He shows the edits and resets throughout history and how the calendars have been changed and manipulated to hide these edits and resets. The mathematical perfection that shows all this makes its pretty easy to see. Through all this there is evidence that there is a God.

In their attempt to make Jesus less than God, they also created a SECOND god. They have their god. Then they call Jesus 'a god'. This 'a god' is in addition to their big god, making at least 2 gods. They claim to have only 1 god but then they create another one, contrary to their monotheistic belief.

Here is one of the pitfalls of human religion. Even many so called Christian churches take the context out of the Bible!
Satan himself is very good at quoting scripture, using scripture to deceive even believers into thinking that they’re following the will of God, when they’re actually way off the path!
How many times have you heard someone say that the Bible contradicts itself, thereby justifying their own lack of reading it or attending a church? I myself was guilty of this before I was saved!
There are supposedly Christian churches with homosexual preachers, transgender preachers and God knows what else, believing that they are saved because their leaders quote scripture out of context!
Heck, anything can be taken out at context, and twisted into meaning the exact opposite of what it actually says. Our own Bill of Rights is used by politicians to promote and justify gun control, federal control of states, even abortion.
I believe that I belong to a very good church. The reason I believe this is because every single sermon or topic is always reinforced by other scripture. I said in an earlier thread that I’m getting pretty good at locating some of the more obscure books of the Bible that aren’t used very often!😀
But in doing all this page turning, I know that what I am being taught is true, and it has given me a hunger to learn more and be a better Christian.
Many years I attended a church, even taught some evening classes without reading the Bible on my own time!
I still read mostly history. I always have! But I can honestly say that I read the Bible very often of my own will.
Im still not a great Christian, but I can see that I am an improving Christian! That’s about as good as anyone can claim on earth!😀
Edited to add that the old church used the NIV translation. It is easier to use for some, I have I believe 3 different translations myself! NIV, New Living Bible, and probably American Standard Version.
But my new church sticks with the original King James Version. I have been warned that different translations are often taken out of context, so we stick with the original.
Reon

Multiple independent labs carbon 14 dated the the shroud to the 14th century.

It's a late middle ages forgery.

There is never gonna be ANY DEFINITIVE PROOF of Gods existence or Christ divinity as long as we’re here on earth!
The definitive proof that everyone seeks will be revealed after we die, or when Christ Himself returns. Until then, our salvation depends on our own faith! This is why the Bible states over and over again that “through faith alone, are we to be saved”!
I have heard of Egyptian Chariots being located at the bottom of the Red Sea. This would prove that the book of Exodus to be true. I have heard the shroud is carbon dated to the 14th century too, obviously it is fake!
But when you boil everything down, and do your own research to reach your own conclusions, the question “did Christ actually offer Himself as atonement for my own sins?” Still comes down to personal faith! This is as God intended, just as my reading of scripture tells me!
I choose to believe He did. My Mom told me this before I was old enough to read. I’m sure her prayers have guided me, even when I was too busy living to worry about being dead!😎
The fact that in the past couple of years, threads like this, open discussions about Christian faith , are so fast growing, tells me that more and more people are starting to recognize that there’s something or somebody behind the curtains of government and life.
I was here when we had a separate forum called “Christ at The Campfire”, and how it became a shooting gallery for those who choose not to believe!🤬
Based on these experiences, I can see that more and more, people are starting to wake up!
I gives me hope, and it reinforces my own faith!😀

What I don`t understand is why the Christian Churches do not accept "The Gospel of Jesus " ?

I believe in the trinity, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.

Crazy theories contrary to the Holy Bible are of Satan to lead others astray. I choose to accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior.

Teachings and theories that Jesus is not God are propagated by Satan to deny Christ the same honor, praise, worship and obedience due only to true God. Unless a person believes that Jesus Christ is God he or she cannot be saved, because only God who became man in order to complete the work of redemption can save and God the Father will not accept any lesser savior. His other name is Immanuel or God with us.

"And God said, let us make man" let us is the Holy Trinity, the Father The Son and The Holy Spirt who are Triune God.

If you understand the bible, you know that Jesus had to be both God and man. Jesus actually referred to himself as both, he even referred to everyone as gods in John 10:34. Jesus also speaks of himself and God being one, and all of us becoming one together in John 17:21-24. All of this may blur the distinction and force us to reevaluate our own concepts of separateness.

Regardless, Jesus had to be both God and man, because the man of Jesus had to live a sinless life in perfect obedience. The man of Jesus had to suffer every consequence of sin including dying a horrible death forsaken by God. The God of Jesus was the only one capable of living a perfect sinless life. In essence God had to become man in a way that he would not be subject to sin, thus the word God sent Mary became flesh without the sperm of sin tainted man. Only God could accomplish this and save man by paying all man's debt to him as a man himself.

Do you read the Bible? Why are you asking the question here?

Yes

Jesus quoted Psalm 82:6 where God called Israel’s rules “gods”. Israel’s judges were called “gods”, Exodus 21:6, Exodus 22:8-9, 22:28. Jesus’ argument was if God called them “gods”, He was far greater.

The sheep do stray.

No he didn't. He was quoting Ps 82:6. It's talking about judges who called themselves gods (small g). There wasn't anything divine about them. It was a title. The Mormons latched onto this to teach that there are lots of gods. That's false.

It doesn't matter at all to my point. If you are in God and he is in you, and you are one together, you still may need to redefine your terms concerning how much of an individual you are.

"Crickets! !"

Jesus said, He was the Son of God, so He is divine. He also said He was leaving us connected with the Holy Spirit, also divine.
Reading the book of John should clear up the Spiritual questions regarding Oneness. In the book of John Jesus explains our Spirit is in Him and He is within us as He is within God and God is within Him and together we are (spiritually implied) all in the Oneness.

I don't know how many times He referred to His heavenly Father, or Himself as the Son? But it must have been tiring enough that He mentioned to the other guy on the cross that they would soon be in Paradise. (away from the confusion implied)

What does the question even mean? There's certainly no total agreement about anything among the Christian Churches, and how do you define the "Gospel of Jesus"?

HE, is.

There is not a single chance under Heaven that that is the case.

The "Gospel of Jesus" was found in the Dead Seas Scrolls . It was the actual words of Jesus spoken to his Disciples at The Last Supper . Most organized Christian Religions will not even recognize them as being valid as it goes against their believes . It has nothing to do with Christianity or believing Christ is your Savior . It is just what he actually said . Anyone truly interested in knowing , can find out with a little
investigation on their part . Do not ask me for links , check it out for your selves .

Huntz,
We have the Gospel of Jesus in the New Testament. Jude tells us we have It all.

Well then, the answer to your question is that the original orthodox church decided it was not to be included in what they considered the inspired word of God. Look at the Ethiopian orthodox bible. It has many books not included in the KJV or Catholic and Protestant versions including the Book of Enoch. The Ethiopian version is one of the oldest known in existence.

What I am speaking of was actually written at The Last Supper in Aramaic when Jesus said it .. Not something that was word of mouth and written by some one 50 or 100 years later . Also Why was the Gospel of Mary denied and her not recognized as a True Apostle ?

Huntz,

Jesus didn't elevate Mary above other people; except to choose her for His birth.

Not the right Mary .

And he most certainly did NOT make her a co-redeemer. That's Jesus and Jesus alone.

No, Jesus is the son of God.

Psalm 83:18
King James Version
18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth.

Big Stick is god !

Ooops - a more proper question: "Aren't trolls that needlessly insert themselves into Christian threads the most obnoxious trolls?" Answer too obvious.

The Question is :

Will Natural Selection be Initiated by a Virus or by Man Himself ..

It’s a Trick Question Bitches

Hahahaha Hahahaha

No one said he did. No one said that she was . Some people read and do not understand .Some people see and do not believe and some people are oblivious to the truth . Jesus made the blind see , but many here are blind to the truth .

What do you mean by "The Gospel of Jesus"?

The Gospel According to Jesus is a 1977 forgery by Gabriele Wittek of the Universal Life Church. It's not an early Christian document.

There are several other documents you could mean such as The Sophia The Christ. This is a Gnostic text of uncertain date. It's earliest Greek fragments date to the 200's. In general, Gnostics only believe in a celestial, spiritual, not a physical Jesus, and Armageddon will be fought only in the heavens, not on Earth. Gnostic theology is incompatible with the form of Christianity that gave us the early Catholic Church.

Same can be said for "Diaglog of the Savior", but it's generally dated to about 150 AD.

What is this truth of which you post?

While I am asking, who is the Mary who is not Mary?

I never heard that someone was at the last supper taking notes. Who was there at the table writing down whatever Jesus said?? Taking dictation, so to speak.

L.W.

'

Right there!
Some very dear friends drove 4 hours to attend my mothers funeral with\for me. One, like me, was raised as Catholic but left that Church as I did in part due to things such as the preacher said during the mass which in effect was to pray to Mary - who ascended directly to become Queen of Heaven. Say WHAT ???

I and the 2 - 3 friends who are solid in non-Catholic faiths were afterward biting our tongues out of respect but giving a knowing look and head shake to one another.

Spot on.

There is Mary mother of Christ and Mary Magdalene . It is Mary Magdalene of which I speak . She wrote her own Gospels . I never mentioned praying to Mary . Reading comprehension is very low here.

Do you all read everything I have said or just read what you want to and then make a comment ? Because your comments make it obvious you have not read everything or are just incapable of understanding the written word . So much for taking Gospels written 50 to 200 years after Christs death as absolutely the truth .

Jesus said and did so many things that only God can say and do that to doubt His divinity is to doubt the many different manuscripts…by many different authors…that collectively comprise the New Testament. Put another way: it’s not possible to deny the divinity of Jesus and at the same time accept the New Testament manuscripts as the inspired word of God. These are mutually exclusive positions.

So if you’re seeking out the truth of who Jesus is, and you accept the New Testament manuscripts as the inspired word of God, then the question is really settled. Jesus is who He said He is. Jesus is who His apostles said He is.

Jesus claimed divinity; His apostles claimed His divinity; and they clearly “worshipped” Him. The Magi “worshipped” Him. Some of the women who were on their way to tell Jesus’ disciples of the resurrection when Jesus met them on their way “worshipped” Him. In fact, it was this very claim of His that got Him crucified.

Instead of reading something not accepted by the majority of Christians maybe you would accept the word of the world's leading archeologist of the Middle East from the 1960's and 1970's. William F. Albright wrote the entire New Testament was written before the year 70AD. Take a careful look at Hebrews, Acts, and John. Internal evidence suggests they were written prior to the year 70AD. I listened to a lecture just the other day by some professor who said Paul started writing his letters within just a few years of the resurrection.

Huntz, any verifiable source for your statement above??

L.W.

......dont think so.....bob