Might as well mail a check to the democratic party.

Well, I just bought a used Buick Lucerne, but it was in Canada, and with the exchange rate the way it is now, they didn't get much, and the 2007 car only had 13K miles on it, so I should be good for a while.

yeah , it looks like the govt. will finsh off what is left of GM and Chrysler....

"Never" is a little bit precipitous. Let's wait and see how things shake out over the next few years.

There's always another election, and elections mean change -- or change back.

Yeah, it pisses me off. I have always like GM trucks in the full size venue but now I feel like I pretty much have to buy a ford if wanting a heavy duty truck. Wish Toyota would come out with a real 3/4 ton.

I just convinced a relative to turn down a great deal on a GM truck for a great deal on a Tundra. He is very happy, and he did more good for the country buying the Tundra then the GM vehicle.

This is very difficult for me to say. I have been buying American for a long time!

True, never is a long time. We will see what GM turns into, but I have little hope.

Worst vehicle, only lemon, I've ever had was a toyota. 2005 matrix XR. Never made an oil change without a service call. Traded at 14 months and 18k miles before warranty ran out. I don't see how anyone can say buying a toyota is better for this country.
My 2007 GMC 2500HD Duramax is completely built in the USA. 5/100 warranty and I just hand calc'd 17 mpg combined.

I'm not arguing that a Toyota is better then a GM vehicle. I'm arguing that spending money on GM products is becoming rigged so as to preferentially benefit the democratic party.

More then ever when I spend a dollar I consider what political effect it will have.

What kind of mileage did you get with the Matrix?

I am in the same boat, I will not purchase another GM product at long as Obama/UAW are in charge.

Good luck with your warranty. I have a 2008 Yukon with a front end that vibrates like a bed in a cheap motel at 70 mph.
GM has already announced that dealers should prepare for not getting paid for warranty work or rebates.
What do you really think the odds are of a dealer paying out of his pocket to fix your vehicle?
I said I'd never buy another GM when I traded the NotsoDuramax in. I should have listended to myself and bought a Ford.

I like GM products, currently own a 2002 Tahoe that's one of the best vehicles I've ever owned and had a 95 and a 99 before that. I've always bought American but I agree with you. Seems like that would apply not just to GM but to anything built by the UAW.

To be honest if I was a UAW member I'd probably vote for and contribute to the political party that seemed best for me and my family, hard to blame anyone for doing that even if it's the democrats. On the other hand I don't feel the democrats policies are in my best interest or the country's so I won't be buying American again unless things change. From what I'm hearing there are a lot of people that feel this way. Hard times for the American auto industry might get a lot worse.

i quit buying gm 15 years ago. never would buy a chrysler. i have 3 toyota's, and will get more when these play out.

I'll be driving Toyota trucks from now on.

I like GM products. My late dad, who knew mechanical things quite well, drove Buicks and a Cadillac. I have owned three Corvettes.

We drive Ford products at the moment but we would look at GM and Chrysler for sure.

I never liked jap products. They killed my uncle Mike on Luzon and started WW2 for us.

Sell it quick. I had the same issues. Front diff was wrecked, tranny had issues. For some reason I bought the extended warranty and it paid for itself twice on my Tahoe. All before 110,000 miles.

I gave up on GM about 15 years ago after the local dealer screwed me on a repair on a Blazer. I had to get a lawyer involved, then things moved along. If GM goes down the tube I'd never miss em. I'm running a Ram 1500, my daughter is running my old Jeep (96 with 210K) and wife likes Audis. I look forward to going to the liquidation auction at the local GM dealer.

I had a Dodge Dakota in 2001, that the transmission kept going out in. I was i nthe middle of a PCS move, when it left me stranded. The dealer quoted me 5 days to fix. 7 days (business)later, truck was still not fixed. I called Chrysler customer service in Detroit, and told the guy how upset I was. The guy told me that oh well, pretty much, and then I told him that I will tell everyone I know to not buy Chrysler. The guy told me it would not hurt them at all, when I repleied back, "One day you'll be bankrupt." Well 8 years later, and look where Chrysler is now, right along with GM.

Most GM cars and practically all Chrysler vehicles that I have ever been in were rattletrap bastids. I feel for those folks whose jobs are tied to those companies, but the products don't do anything for me.

Why would anyone worry about warranty work on a GM vehicle? Our Glorious Leader has given his personal promise that all warranty work will be honored.

I must of missed something in the last couple of hours while I was actually working doing paperwork. I thought it was Chrysler that's down the tubes. To be sure, GM may follow, but not quite yet as far as I know.

If BamBam is gonna do to GM like he did to Chrysler, and turn it over to the UAW, and f**k the creditors, the stockholders and the bondholders, and the goobermint and the UAW are gonna run the show, I don't think we have to be much concerned about with the future of either company. They are for sure gonna go t*ts up for real.

Just wondering where you are getting your information?

Hemi

You guys buying Tundras/Toyota's must not be hauling campers/trailers etc; no way I'd put a 2,500lb camper on a Toyota Tundra, 3/4 ton or not.

Wook

That is a funny post right there!

I wouldn't have bought one before!

FoMoCo gets my $$$$$


Mike

It just seem to me that the government will work hard to ensure that Ford does not succeed. Either by giving GM/Chrysler certain advantages or by punishing Ford.

Why not? Have you ever done it? I've hauled well more then that without issue(s). Do Toyota's have the power of diesels? No! Can they/do they haul and pull significant weight? Yes!

I just hauled four guys, enough gear and food for 2 days of PDog shooting, and a 4-place ATV trailer loaded with three full size (300cc - 750cc) ATV's and one dirt bike. Drove from Denver to northern Wyoming, up hills, down hills, and through 15 miles of some of the nastiest mud I've seen in a long time. Plenty of power, extremely comfortable, decent gas mileage, and never got stuck. Truck is a 2005 Tundra DoubleCab TRD. Doesn't sound too bad to me. Oh, I used to pull a heavy 21' ski boat and trailer with enough food and gear for a week. No issues then either.

How is that? Just because Ford got their money 2 years ago, why would they want to let them fail. And yes, Ford did get money- they got a line of credit 2 years ago- before all this crap happened.

Hemi

Edit to add:

Ford has drawn over 10 billion off their "secure line of credit" since the 4th qtr of 2008. So how do you think that line of credit is secured or better yet, who is guarantor on it- The govmt?

I think he means a slide in camper, not pulling capacity.

He talked about "hauling campers/trailers etc." Simply addressing his comments.

I've owned two American cars in my life - an Oldsmobile Omega and a Chevy S10 Blazer. Both were fun - but both were money pits. It is super unlikely that I'll ever buy another American car. I've been VERY happy with my last two Nissans.

Had major problems with the last 3 GM vehicles I owned. 79 Chev Malibu and 82 Olds Cutlas Supreme both had major engine problems. My 86 Olds Cutlas Ciera was the best of the bunch, but the tranny took a dump at 85K. Then there was a Dodge and Ford.

Wife now has a Honda and its been bullet proof. When my Explorer dies I'll probably replace it with another Ford or Toyota.

Dude seriously. I live in Detroit. All my neighbors, family and friends are in the auto business. Besides they've been running that story on the news here nightly so it must be true! LOL
Other than that not being able to get a truck that's six months old with 4k on it repaired kinda makes you take notice if ya know what I mean.

Really? Must be different here in Michigan vs Wyoming. My sister store (GM-across the street, I am a Chrysler dealer) is still doing warranty work and getting rebate and incentive payments from GM. No word they are not going to pay them either. Also, our other 3 GM stores are also getting paid and doing warranty work.
What do "all your friends in the auto business" do?

Hemi

I wouldn't touch GM right now. I traded in a Toyota and got a Ford. The Ford (Made in USA) has been a better vehicle so far than the Toyota (Made in Japan). The Toyota's glass and paint were very poor quality (very easily chipped), the rear end gear was in a Lot known to break (Toyota would not fix until it actually came apart) and the front end cracked on some.

Not lie to make a buck? LOL I know English can be a challange for some so when you go back and read my post you may want to pay attention to what I said;
"dealers should prepare for not getting paid for warranty work or rebates".
KEY WORD: PRE PARE .
If your sisters dealership is in MI like you say how about if you send me her name so I can get my Yukon repaired?
I'd appreciate it.

Very capable, extremely well put together and fully featured. If the power isn't enough for you (and the 5.7 iForce is pretty stout for starters; 383 HP, 403 lb/ft torque) you can slap on a TRD, fully factory warrantied supercharger for less than $7K installed. Then you'd be sporting 504 HP and 550 lb/ft torque...http://www.trdusa.com/featuredpart.c...=Superchargera.

GM and Chrysler seem to be in a different place than Ford. While Ford secured a $20 plus billion line of credit several years ago, it was all private money. They do have a stand by line of credit with the government for about $10 Billion but have not taken any of that money. The difference is that Ford shareholders have not been wiped out (at least not yet), as it appears that both Chrysler and GM will be. Therefore, Ford is still independently owned while the other two will have the Federal government as a large shareholder. Politically, it will look bad if Ford succeeds as an independent while the other two companies need substantial government assistance. To counter the types of reactions voiced in this thread and elsewhere, it would seem very natural for a large shareholder (that due to being the government also has enormous regulatory and financial power) to try to make Ford indistinguishable from the other two car companies.

My bad, I got that turned around. Meaning, things must be different in Michigan than in Wyoming- we have no stores in Michigan.
Still, where does you information come from as far as be prepared? Still no communication as far as that goes- actually just the opposite.

With all those friends, Family, and neighbors in the auto business you can't get your GM serviced? Where do they "all" work? Factories? Suppliers? Support? Transportation? Dealers? GM directly?

Hemi

Oh boy........it's contagious, kinda like the swine flu.

I believe he said and meant "sister store", as in not related by birth/blood, but much like having a "sister city" a "sister hood" and not like "this is my seeester".

You gotta hate it when you think the stars are all aligned and the kill just a simple formality......then, all chit breaks lose........

I may be completely wrong, but I am pretty sure Ford cashed out all of that 10.1 billion dollar line of credit after they lost over 5 billion in the last QTR of '08.

Hemi

Uh actually no Hemi. Ford secured that money with mortgages and such on every single piece of property and equipment it has. It was part of the "Way Forward" plan announced 2 years ago. There is No government money involved.

Ford did ask to get the same consideration in loans should it become necessary to Ford in the interest of fairness. So far it has not become necessary and appears it won't. Ford is actually doing better than it and others estimated previously.

Ford is further along in it's reorganization planned when there was no recession and market tank. From now own there are realignments and introductions of true world products at Ford.

No doubt that Ford is further along- they "saw the storm" before anyone else! I guess I stand corrected- thanks for the info.

Hemi

No worries. We obviously both got a little turned around. That story about dealers preparing to not get reimbursed for warranty work or rebates has been ran on Channel 7 Detroit. If you do a search I'm sure you will find plenty and no doubt dealers are processing claims ASAP so they dont get stuck when......errr *if* GM files bankrupcy.

That�s what I�m talking about when Toyota builds a REAL truck that can haul and tow stuff like this one let me know. I need a real truck not some little toy hauler.

Not a problem Hemi and thanks for your previous help regarding the various Cummins engines.

Now that's a recent market sample.

i love my 2008 chevrolet duramax diesel. this truck is everything a truck should be. i doesn't know the word stop until you put the brakes on it. i only have about 12,000 miles on it, and figure it will last me a long time. no way in the world i will buy a ford. i'll just hang on to it as long as it will last me, unless GM makes a better diesel.

We run Fords and Toyotas at my house. Had a Mazda car a while back, but it was effectively a Ford product.

I pray that there are always Ford pickup trucks.


7500 lbs. hanging from the bumper plus a ton of crap on the chassis for a trip up the hill early last September.

Shaq diesel is the only way to fly....(grin)

Guess I'm glad I got my 08 F-350 when I did. Don't see a Toyota pullin' my 17,000 lb fifth wheel.

Now this whole thread is funny right there.....

4 tires on the rear end are nice.

You just ain't watched enough of them Jap ads.

Me too.

I almost took a picture of the banner, but I drove by a Toyota dealer today and they have a banner that says, "Test drive a Tundra, then buy a real truck." I thought about it for less than half a second and said to myself, what, drive a Tundra, then go drive a Ford? What are they trying to say?

Toyota's are good trucks.

Do they have F350 Powerstroke's over there in Japan?

I'm not sure SamOlson. I guess if they have 5th wheels and travel trailers like we do they must have Super Dutys.

I've owned a number of Hondas, Mazdas, and Fords. The quality of Hondas and Mazdas has invariably been outstanding, but I have to admit that the Fords were not far behind. Two of the Fords were F-150's, and I have been very pleased with both of them. I'd buy another.

Had a good friend who was a GM Service Mgr. He had absolutely nothing good to say about GM products, and eventually quit and went into business for himself because he felt so frustrated about the products he was trying to fix for his customers. He told me there were many times he felt like taking them out for a walk and explaining, "Look, Mister, I'll fix it but it'll break again because it's a piece of $hit."

How do you get a motel up to 70 mph? Bet it takes a lot of fast power - strokes..

"How do you get a motel up to 70 mph? Bet it takes a lot of fast power - strokes.."

LOL and a lot of quarters!

There is more at stake here then brand loyalty. I will, with out a doubt, from now on consider to the best of my ability how my spent dollars will impact politics. I can not in good conscience support the UAW-democratic machine.

How much longer do you think you will have a choice? Obama hands the big 3 over to the UAW and if card check passes there is the possibility of the other car makers that make cars in the US going union as well.

Never owned a Chrylser product. Currently own a 2000 Ford F-250 Powerstroke Diesel and a 2007 Chevy 1/2 ton 4wd.

My next purchase will possibly be of a foreign make for the regular running around vehicle but the tow vehicle will have to still get the nod to a 3/4+ truck.

Ford stated last week they have enough cash to last till the end of the year....then what?

Why????Toyota is moving production back to Japan.Are you Japanese???

Let the people who worked for GM/Chrysler buy their products. I'm going Ford.

If'n you own a toyota, better check ur frame:
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/investigative/19294250/detail.html

If FORD started getting all the business, that would be a good message to send to Obama.

26-28 totally highway was the best I could do. I bought the matrix to replace a ford escort wagon 5spd with 150k. Kicked myself for that.

Unkick yerself and buy another Ford.

I jump in pretty quick on vehicle threads especially when people start praising toyota. The push to outproduce GM really dropped their quality and ford took their spot. I would never claim one company can do everything and never have a lemon. That toyota and a rental camry proved to me that american made toyotas have problems.
A coworker with 2 older toyotas went with a ford f150 after watching my struggle to keep one toyota on the road.

All this talk about buying something other than Chrysler and GM due to the money going to the Govt and UAW and such makes me think. People buy Jap products and such say they are buying American products and that the money goes to Americans and their jobs because they are built here. However, ultimatly some of the money goes over seas to the Japs- right. I guess the point that I am getting at- which I am not too good at putting this into written words is this. I guess I would rather see the money go to the US govmt to pay back the tax payers and UAW so Chrysler and GM can be solid again than pay my money to over seas companies that I will never see the money again. The trade deficit is just too big and IS costing US jobs.

Hemi

That GM/Chrysler will become solid again is a really big wish...

Because? Enlighten me o wise one. Such an insightful post- these your words and feelings? I guess it is pretty easy to be on the side of "no they can't" rather than stick your neck out and say "yes they can". I guess I can say I am glad people like you are not working for me or with me. There are several people that work for me that are pulling for the "yes we can". They are making sacrifices daily, putting in the extra work, and have a good attitude to make the best out of what they are dealt. I guess the best way to sum it up is this:

"Successful people are successful in the situations they find themselves in- they don't go looking for successful situations to put themselves in"

Go find a succeddful situation to be in- please stay off my team.

Hemi

Hemi:

For me, I don't disagree with the intended results of the current actions (a healthy, more nimble American car manufacturing industry), but I certainly do question the method by which this has been set up by the government. GM shareholders are going to be essentially wiped out. The 15.8 billion of of secured debt is going to be preserved. The $27 billion of unsecured bondholders will get 10% equity and no new debt. The $27 billion of US Government debt will get 50% equity and $19.6 billion of new debt. The UAW's $20.4 billion of debt will be converted into 39% equity and $10.2 billion of new debt. The same essentially will be proposed for Chrysler with the exception of shareholders (as they are owned by private equity firm). I can certainly understand how a deal such as GM's could anger many, while at the same time pleasing some.

I am hardly enlightened, and have listed my reasons over several posts in the past. I am a regular person, who has watched over the years, how GM has squandered its opportunities, and became a spoon feeder of retirees and union workers. You have voiced alot of annimosity in your post, and while I am just another voice on the internet, I would suggest, you reinvest your energy into something more productive. Afraid you will lose your GM job?
Find another one like many others who have had to adjust to the times. I've made 2 career changes in my life, as have many others. Working for GM was a teen to grave benefit dream of many, but in America a corporation should be expected to make a profit, not leave their shareholders in a lurch while sucking up to taxpayer money. GM needs to die.

Once again, I WILL NEVER BUY another GM/Chrysler product AGAIN.

The last time I bought a GM product was 1978. It was a Firebird that was plagued with mechanical and electrical problems that were difficult to get the dealer to stand behind. By 82 the body was rotting off the frame, thankfully I broke a pole in half with it coming off some black ice and it was totalled.

I've mainly run Ford's ever since.

Different strokes. I bought my last Ford in 1984. Actually, I'm glad I did buy a Ford once. Because I will never do that again! What a POS!

I have yet to see the Toyota/HydraBed combination up here.

my best car was a ford, a 1994 mercury grand maquis

Toyota is a girls truck. I had one and was embarrassed to drive it. It had trouble pulling my 4800lb camper and was suppose to be rated at 6700lb pulling power. If you have a Tundra, get the windows tinted because real truck owners are laughing at ya.

I got a DURAMAX now and it pulls my 12000lb toy hauler no problem. I will not give up on GM yet.

American manufacturing has some serious hurdles. Some overseas countries subsidize industry, some have their markets aimed at export only production. Domestic producers battle an uneven playing field with requirements that only exist here.
We can move battery production offshore, jump up and down about the environmental benefits, ship batteries in, eventually contribute tax dollars to clean up foreign factories and pollution will still eventually get here.
We need a level playing field where unions are controllable, some caps on salary / bonuses, every country has stricter environmental laws and fair business practices.
I'm not planning on buying a truck for a while, happy with my GM and hopefully UAW will go faster than AMF.

Sort of my way of thinking. The CEO, CFO, management team of a company spend more money on golf than I make in a year. I try to support the company that is likely to spend money where I live. Not a slam on anyone and their choices, but I try not to buy foreign regardless of where it's made. My thought is if more people bought domestic the companies making those products would need more employees and employ more American workers. Maybe if people buy more Toyotas made in the US they will be supporting US workers, but the money the owners of those companies spend isn't as likely to be spend on a house here in the US, or most other things. I figure if I buy a domestic vehicle I support US workers and maybe a guy putting a new roof on a multi-million dollar home in Malibu or something. Could be wrong, but that's my thought on it. Doesn't hurt that Ford makes a kick ass truck.

To say you will never buy a GM or Chrysler product is silly. At one time or another they have all worked togeather have for years. Any of you out there have a

2007 Ford Edge
2007 Lincoln MKX
2008 Ford Taurus
2008 Ford Taurus X
2008 Mercury Sable
2009 Ford Flex
2009 Lincoln MKS
2009 Ford Escape
2009 Mercury Mariner
2009 Mazda Tribute
guess what its a GM tranny design that FORD bought into.

For you Toyota nuts out there GM and Toyota worked togeather on hybrids. GM and Chrysler made manual trannys togeather.

SAY WHAT!!!!If the standard 10k tow and power isn't enough for you (and the 5.7 iForce is pretty stout for starters; 383 HP, 403 lb/ft torque) you can slap on a TRD, fully factory warrantied supercharger for less than $7K installed. Then you'd be sporting 504 HP and 550 lb/ft torque...http://www.trdusa.com/featuredpart.c...=Superchargera.

AND they will likely probably be in business in 5 years!!!!!

I had a 2006 Tundra and it is like driving a Corolla. As far as the 5.7 new Tundra? My buddy bought a 26' Fleetwood gearbox toy hauler {8000lbs} and his new Tundra gets 7miles to the gallon pulling it, he has added moog helper springs, and has 1200lb stabilizer bars cranked to the max! He says the Tundra is controlled by the camper and is pissed because Toyota lies about there pulling capacity! Go to rv.net and view the complaints on how Toyota has always over rated there gvrw by 25%. You mentioned adding a $7000.00 super charger? What about the rear end and wimpy frame? If your hauling hay, or a boat the Tundra is fine, but you better stay way under the towing rating.

Or just buy a real truck and get a Ford/Chevy. Toyota's are for teenager's, in my opinion.

A Diesel Turbo towing better than a Gas, NO WAY!?!?!?! Look at the specs Duramax 360HP@3200RPM and 650lb-ft@1600RPM vs 505HP@5600RPM and 550lb-ft@3600 are you willing to take on that Dirtymax with a tundra I wouldn't. Not to mention the diesel will get better millage while towing and the tuner system upgrades that can be done. I have seen a 2005 Duramax in diesel power mag dyno out at 970hp and 1875lb-ft. This diesel was running strait NUMBER 2 PUMP DIESEL, show me any Tundra that can come near those specs off pump fuel.

Can your Tundra pull my Raptor? NOPE! But my Duramax can. I suggest the Tundra to stick with pulling pop-ups.

uhhhhh k I do not dispute that a heavy duty Diesel American made truck can out tow a Toyota Tundra BUT I do dispute that the Tundra is a girls truck. We have a Duramax (which sits right by the Deere and Japanese Kamatsu Japanese mad tractor), also have 2007 Caddy Escalade (402 hp) and a Ford 1500 and prefer all over the Toyota. But I am ready to gt rid of the Crewmax because as my friend put it his family/"crew" wasn't exactly ecstatic about their 3K mile road trips in a leaf sprung, loud and stinky oil burner. It could pull a redwood out of the ground (600+ RWHP/900 torque) but the ride got numbing. The monsterous fuel tank (44 gallon) and ridiculous cruise range @ 12-15 MPG always had him pushing the limits of his passengers, which can really take the wind out of the sails of a family road trip/vacation. With that being said, the Caddy (nice truck and another GM product) on the other hand offers a 3.42 gearing that really leaves a lot to be desired, 3.73 or 4.10 would make it so much better. Doesn't sound like changing them out is really an option so I'm left with finding the unattainable "perfect" cruising speed to keep my family friendly road trip truck in the right gear and in the powerband to maximize my mileage and have power in reserve when I need it to pass, etc. Problem is that goes right out the window as soon as I hit even the smallest curve/hill/incline/decline/etc. Then there's nothing like having your cruise set on a pancake flat long stretch of straight road (think South Carolina or Texas) with no traffic and some ass clown pulls right into your lane for no apparent reason. Now you have to start all over again. That's where the diesel is real handy, and the faces on the people who were choking on my black smoke as I rolled by them like they were standing still were priceless. No doubt I'll miss that...BUT once you start sprucing up Tundra's (and believe you me it is just a matter of time before they rock in the categories you mentioned) you have one hell of a truck. I am simply disappointed in the manner in which GM is treating those trying to support their cause. In my case for 15 years.

So back to Toyota and it being a girls truck. The YouTube video found below is is a sign of things to come. You think with all that Japanese tractor gear out there that the Japanese will not and cannot make the ultimate Crewmax or D tow vehicle? HA!!!!!

ROFLMAO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APa7ikhySSc

LOL a burn out video here ya go http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHPyjSG9p2M

Just so you know my 1998 Chev K1500 6.5TD smokes tires just as good as that TOY. Duramax 12.18 114mph http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y210NRGehlI

THATS A 2500HD RACING AND BEATING A Z06 CORVETTE! Far more epic than that toyota burn out.

wait and see----toyota is just waiting to pounce and those industrial commercial diesels tundra's are on their way. i know because i go over there once a quarter...we'll both be here so we can sync up later. btw i am red, white and blue. just wished we'd kept up. another to watch is mercedes. it's coming too. gm is screwed cos they screwed folks like me who buy "Toys."

First off I do not own a Tundra. Just thinking about going that way. With the exception of a 1989 560SEL ($5k with 80k miles what a buy....just wished it would tow tow) everything I have is USA. I am simply trying to decide what to buy next that will be around after the big O decides to turn GM into the next KIA or Green thing. Maybe you need to emerge from the dark ages and just move into that Raptor thing. Chances are that thing (Raptor is something pre-historic right) is not going anywhere anytime soon cos your Duramax will require maintenance but nobody will be home to fix it. GM will be too busy making electrical cords for their Government mandated Hybrids. Heck build you in a hot tub or some sort of fish pond. You can cook the fish on the leaf burner. Make a competition cooker out of it and pull it with my tractor. This reality check is fun huh?

Just a quick reminder the Germans (Rudolph Diesel) invented the massive Diesel CE and are in talks with the Japanese. Fact!

Also a quik reminder GM created Detroit Diesel who makes Mercedes Commercial Diesel engins. Strange its almost like I have said before that all the big three have worked togeather at some point in time. On that note Diamler Chrysler was a joint company that owned Mercedes at one time, untill Aug 2007 now its just Diamler.

I guess its a good thing that the Duramax Diesel wasn't a joint effort with long time affiliate and top commercial diesel engine maker Isuzu. I guess no one will be able to fix em exspecially not a Isuzu diesel engine tech, I mean Isuzu only sells the same exact engine.

How long before Toyota starts making 3/4 ton and up trucks now and possibly heavy diesels? I know if I was Toyota I would be looking at the possibility. The heavy truck divisions of GM/Ford have been steady money makers even today.

I know it will be as unpopular as the swine flu but I'll say it anyway. I have bought my big trucks from the big 3 because they are the only ones who make them.

Give me a competitive truck from Toyota and I think it would come down to Toytoa/Ford for me. I know people who work for Chrysler/GM (Americans) will loose their job....

BUT when it comes down to it I'd rather buy a foreign car/truck than funnel money straight into the UAW who funnels it right into candidates like Obama.

Just remember...If anyone buys a GM car or a Chrysler car, they are making a financial contribution to the Democratic Party.

This is how Tundra owners feel & look as they pull into hunting camp with Ford & chevy's.

Tundra is like owning a Honda Shadow, or Suzuki Blvd motorcycle. Your always having to justify and make excuses why you just did not buy the Harley Davidson. {ford/gm}

I bought a Harley. Know why? Because they know how to treat their loyal customers. GM on the other hand. NOT! BUT I have bought 3----count them 3--- GM trucks (and a Dodge and a 2 Fords I should add) over 15 years and now they brush me off. That is what I initially base my decision on. Not the product. I will buy a used beater for heavy duty action because I know I will never have to deal with the maker regardless of who it is. In this case we know. But as for my longstanding ride from a company who will stand behind their product and more important me! That decision goes to company number 4 and on.

I don't think the UAW and some in the government understand how hated the UAW is and how hated the US government is. Throw the 2 together and well we shall see....

Toyotas don't pull (or stop) as well as big trucks, that's for sure, but anyone who doubts their off-road ability and durability is full of BS. The "Toy" haters need to stick to bashing them for political reasons, which is understandable.

+1. I wanted to get another GM 1/2 ton this year, but with all that's going on, uh-uh.

I'm not thrilled with any of the choices. At least the Tundra is manufactured in Texas. If Toyota decides to move into the 3/4- and 1-ton arena, that will add gasoline to the fire. Might take them a few design iterations to refine and work out the kinks ...

It always makes me laugh how these threads eventually turn into a Tundra rules and Dodge/Ford/GM drool thread. The ends that Tundra owners will go through to validate "their" truck as top dog and their reason for owning one is relentless- they really take ownership in their choice- right or wrong.

Hemi

I'll show you what makes he laugh.
Everybody who owns a ten year old Dodge that's never been in the shop identify yourself.

LMAO My '03 Ram with a Hemi didn't make it 500 miles before the tranny failed. Then again I had the exact same issue with the pump seals in my notsoDuramax. 200 miles and a puddle of ATF fluid in the driveway.
Made in Mexico good for the auto companies. Not so good for the consumer.

Yeah, I guess those Toyota owners with the sludgging issues, bad head gaskets, frames cracking, and the recent recall of 1.35 MILLION Toyots worldwide NEVER go to the shop either

Hemi

Just out of idle curiosity how many are going to be "on your team" after Chryser announces all those dealership closings this week?

If we do not support US manufacturers and products, their quality can never improve (it HAS already greatly improved over the past 5 years).

If US companies go out of business, we loose our manufacturing base, jobs and contribute to foreign prosperity � all at the US' expense.

I've always bought American autos and haven't had any problems with quality for the past 20 years. To me this isn't about quality and we've been exporting manufacturing and buying foreign made products at an increasing level since Clinton got Nafta rolling. It's about Obama, Pelosi, Reid and their policies, etc. If I buy UAW made products it results in helping politicians that want to change the country in a number of ways I'm strongly against.

i have a friend who owns 2 gm dealerships. he told me a few days ago he is scared as heck at what he sees coming down the road for gm. he said he believes he'll be out of cars/trucks (and his business) in 6-9 months. sad indeed!

My point also. The issue is not how "bad" forgeign product are, it's how "good" ours ain't. People are going to buy the best product they can afford, period. If our stuff is "as good" but not affordable, it ain't gonna work.