I'm not a coffee drinker. Nothing religious or dietary, I just haven't been able to acquire a taste for it. So I don't know enough about it... I need your help!

We're starting up a big box hardware store, outside food concession stand. We're going to do quality hot dogs, specialty style hotdogs, gourmet sausages, and gyros. A hot dog stand, but with a gourmet twist. Brand name and Premium soft drinks, Brand name and Premium chips, quality local and national brand fresh bakery desserts, etc.

For our coffee, I have a simple, but fun question for you coffee drinkers:

Would you prefer a large national brand, canned, pre-ground, fresh brewed, plain old standard cup of coffee...
12oz for $.75?

Or,

Would you prefer a specialty, premium roast, fresh ground, fresh brewed, "gourmet" cup of plain coffee...
12oz for $2.25?

What do you think? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?


Please give me your opinions, as well as any thoughts you have along this line too. All input is hugely appreciated!


THANK YOU!!!

I'm a coffee drinker I'll take either one.

Probably go with good gourmet stuff first but I'm not too choosy.

YUBAN

rainshadow1:

No way am I going to pay $2.25 for a cup of coffee. Starbucks would never had gotten started if they had to depend on guys like me for a customer base. I suspect that most of the people going to big box hardware/lumber stores feel the same.

KC

I consider myself a coffee conniseur.

That said I would choose the above.

Implied value usually makes more money net, but there is huge difference between trying to pull this off in yuppiland versus bubbaville... That is the harder question...

I would prefer really good coffee, and that does not come out of a can...

As long as i can grind and brew coffee myself i dont have a problem with Starbucks or 8-oclock.
The problem comes when people dont use enough grinds to make coffee and when beans are dark roasted.
BLAH!

You dont like dark roasted???

I love French Roast....about near as dark as you can get it.

Why not just like charcoal?

Havent tried that.

Lick and like are two different words entirely... Hard to be a smartazz when you do dumbazz things!

I'd consider both.

I will not pay $2.25 per cup but will pay $0.75 - even if its mud.

I don't see the attraction to expensive coffee...............

If you buy good coffee from the start people will drink it. I never got into the fancy coffee, but some people like it. Give me a good cup black and I'll be back. Yuban Dark Roast is my preferred coffee now. I was given a fancy cup one time that cost at least what you are talking about, but after a few drinks it got tossed.

I don't drink 'sissy' coffee. Serve me up one like Niles and Frasier Crane drink and I'm fine.

Seriously, I like plain ol' coffee. Folger's, Eight O'Clock, Maxwell House.....they all satisfy my kultured pallet.

I can like a cup of quality coffee. That said, I would not expect to get that at a hotdog stand of any caliber. (Not intended as a dig at you).

I drink coffee black so I'm not looking for a double-shot, no fat, vanilla, avacado, foo-foo, cuppa. If I'm going to get coffee in front of a box store, all I want is a dose of caffeine.




Then again, I've been called a neanderthal.

I'm not much for instant coffee, but the new Starbuck's instant is worth checking out...seriously.

I have, and am much impressed by Starbuck's VIA. That'll be my new camp coffee.

Get ya's an industrial espresso machine, and sell Americano's for 1.50... Hell, might as well go full blown coffee stand too, unless you're East Coast where latte's haven't caught on.

Buy whole beans from a roaster that doesn't use an air bed roaster (thats how you get bitter tasting dark roasts)

OR... Get mass quantities of 190 degree water somehow (best temp for extraction) and do the french press thing. (pump thermoses are okay... Keeping a pot on the burner isn't)

Paper basket filters are the friggin root of all evil. And even good drip pots still lack propper extraction.

Here's my favorite local roaster... http://www.coltercoffee.com/

Ingwe

Regular old coffee, Hill Brothers preferred, but make it strong. Weak coffee will taste bad and most people don't know why. miles

I'd go to Sams Club and get the big bag of Dunkin Donuts Regular coffee and charge $1

Its easy, it's inexpensive and it's good coffee. I wouldn't pay more than that for a cup. So called "premium" coffee is a joke, I will drive past 50 Starbucks looking for a McDonalds

Drummond

Make your own blend. 8 oclock French roast ground very very fine, one tablespoon makes two cups in a home coffee maker, four table spoons makes eight cups, etc.
Remember to throw the coffee out real often, better yet save it an pour it on you plants at home the plants will love it, do the same with the coffee grounds.

For the non coffee drinker remember there's lots of stuff out there thats warm and brown and they ain't coffee either.

Jim

Where we live the fancy will sell big time. Where are you setting up? Wife and I will stop in for a hotdog.

"I'd go to Sams Club and get the big bag of Dunkin Donuts Regular coffee and charge $1."

+1

Typical decent quality grocery store coffee is pretty good stuff if it's prepared correctly.

I'd go with Folgers and put some tme into learning to brew it so that it comes out like it's supposed to.

Dark roast simply means that the coffee bean has been roasted to a higher temperature and typically for a longer period of time. This causes all of the flavor molecules stored within the coffee beans�both the good and bad flavors�to be burnt away. By roasting so dark, the end consumer (you) can�t tell whether it�s a good bean or a bad bean because all the natural flavors have been turned to charcoal.

the more you roast the less cafine it will have. Also, you can dark roast an inferior bean. the roast covers the taste.
with a really good bean you can pull of a light roast.
Think about a piece of beef. say a filet from a Kobe... dry aged and wonderful marble. would you want it cooked well-done?
Now if its chuck you just grind it up and cook it well, right?
same thing w/ coffee.
Good beans+light roast= great flavor
crappy beans+ dark roasted and preground= hides inferiority.
Not to say all dark roasts are bad beans. theres some good ones.
But try this. Get a bag of starbucks breakfast blend. brew it with 2 rounded tablespoons per 8 oz. cup of clean cool water.
YES! I said 2 rounded TABLESPOONS.


It seems the adjectives �dark roast� and �good, strong coffee� have become synonymous. This is simply not true. Some coffees, of course, do taste great when roasted dark. However, a large part of the dark roast trend is simply that: a trend. Of course there are other reasons why dark roasts are appearing everywhere. Some are untrue beliefs based on perception; for example, the belief that darker coffees are stronger and contain more caffeine. In fact, the opposite is true.

LEAVING THE DARK SIDE, The Forgotten Art of Light Roasting
by Joachim Eichner

Ditto's for the Espresso Machine, I have gotten hooked on American Latte's. If you don't want to do that, then I would suggest that you buy fresh coffee beans and grind as needed keep things real clean and just a pinch of salt and leave it at that. For plain industral coffee, Dunkin Donuts got it down pat. Starbucks to me is to bitter. Also, a lot of people drink tea, I am more of a tea drinker than anything else. Its only been a little while with the Espresso and Latte's on a regular basis for me. What ever you do, make it a good value and you will do good business. Where I been going for coffee has wireless internet and since doing it they had a ten fold increase in sales.

I'm a coffee afficionado, and agree with the above. A good, strong (as said not dark roast) quality cup of coffee is the beginning.

THEN, don't screw it up from there. Use the right brewing equipment (get the temperature right), use the right storage equipment -- the new vacuum thermos thingies are good. And throw it out before it gets too old.

It's really quite easy to make a good cup of coffee. It's hard to keep that quality long enough for the consumer to enjoy it.

HOWEVER, get me a decent cup of coffee, and I will remember, and come back for it. JMO, Dutch.

I would like to add to the above that water quality is vital to a good cup. If your water is not pure than a good filter is vital.

That said, here in the PNW where fancy coffee started people will pay for the fancy stuff without a second thought. So offer the fancy along with a great cup of "House" and you cannot loose.

My thoughts too. Keep the price point at .75c, but offer the "best" fresh coffee possible considering it's pre-ground and from a drip maker. Keep it fresh. Someone mentioned Yuban Dark, and I agree that's about the best from a can. Costco sells a pretty good one too. IMO, you'll have enough customers that want the caffeine and don't expect gourmet flavor (in front of a hardware store anyway) but that will be very surprised and happy if it does taste good. Good, honest, "blue collar" coffee (under a buck) that actually tastes like someone brewed it who gave a schit, should build a loyal customer base. If you charge more for pretentious black coffee the expectations will be higher (and you may not deliver a better cup), and you'll have fewer people willing to fork over the coin to try a cup since it's not full-blown foo-foo with foam and an ostentatious insulative cup jacket.

IF you could deliver Americano or even french pressed for $1.50 as Dan Adair suggested, you'd have a hit IMO because the perceived value would be worth roughly twice that of the .75c cup. The additional overhead and training might not be worth it though at a hot dog stand. Also kind of a slippery slope towards foam and syrups.

For me it's anything that resembles 90 weight gear lube, but of coarse I'm a retired over the road gear jammer. So my opinion probably doesn't count as I've drank many a cup of the stuff at three or four in the morning that has set in a stainless steel thermos for seven or eight hours that some little truck stop waitress had filleed for me.

And a bone for Sloan.

I believe I'd offer the customer's a choice of both regular and "gourmet" coffee. If, after a fair trial run you are not selling enough of one or the other to be worth the hassel, just quit offering that particular one.

Real simple marketing. If the customer is wearing boots, blue jeans or has an anti Obama or NRA T shirt it costs .75 including tax. If the customer is wearing a tie, button down collars, suit coat and loafers it coats a $1.50 not including tax.
If the customer is wearing a three piece suit, ignor him.

Jim

Thank you guys for the feedback, please continue on...


Lots of you have hit on the heart of the question, yes I'm going to be at the Depot (Come on by Scott! Not 'til mid May, but if all goes extremely well, then early May!) but it's a Depot in a retirement town in the Gourmet Coffee driking Pacific NW.

It's all drip coffee, and my wife has been in food service for almost 20 years and can make the cheap stuff taste good. But she'll drive across town for the Gourmet stuff. (I just can't drink it, so I don't get it!)

Really appreciate your input.

Nutshell:

.75 cents, "Bahh! Gotta be junk!"


or


2.25 ! ! ! ! "Are you Crazy! Am I made of Money!"


Really appreciate your thoughts....

I will see you sometime in May if You don't drop in here sooner.

Will do Scott! Have my wife call if I'm not there!



Oh, and someone mentioned McDonalds...McDonalds has Seattle Best around here, actually!!! (A subsidiary of Starbucks.)

I'll spend $2 a cup just for this reason alone...


"Starbucks became embroiled in the gun controversy when it responded to gatherings of �gun rights� activists in its stores, carrying highly visible guns strapped to their hips, by refusing to adopt a �no guns� policy, as had California Pizza Kitchen and other similarly targeted retail chains. Starbucks recently issued a statement defending its policy by citing concern for the safety of its employees. To prohibit the open carry of guns in its stores, says Starbucks, �we would be forced to require our partners [employees] to ask law abiding customers to leave our stores, putting our partners in an unfair and potentially unsafe position.�

I love reverse discrimination.

Jim

Go with the regular coffee. Your going into a big box hardware store: not an emporiam for the aesthete. I go in in my old painting and plumbing clothes.

Your selling hot dogs: not flyfishing clothes.

IF coulter coffee is so great why do they have so many flavors?

I really like Peet's coffee. In general, I've found the secret to good coffee is just a small pinch of salt. Sounds strange, but it makes all the difference.

$2 for a regular cup of coffee seems a little stiff. I can see it for a latte or something like that. I would split the difference and sell and "upper scale" coffee for a dollar. Might not even want to do 12 oz. That's a big cup of coffee. A normal cup is about 6 oz.

I like strong coffee, and I drink it black. I hate bitter coffee. I like a dark Columbian. Water quality is a true thing, ScottF, and once it is brewed, don't leave it on the warmer too long.

And forget that moo-latte-double-crap-flavour-stinkin'-frapachino-garbage ------ It AIN'T coffee!

I see at least one of us has good taste in coffee.
A big cup of Starbucks Frnch Roast first thing in the morning gets me jump started.
Paul B.

If it's not Folgers Classic Roast I don't drink it,period.I take some every where I go.

I like coffee that has aroma. What I mean is, you've got to smell it first. Then the flavor has got to be richer than the aroma. How I achieve this is to use Folger's Reg Grind. Four- five heapers in the bottom of the bodum and add boiling water, compress and serve. Seems to me that the cheaper the coffee, and then more of it, the better the aroma/flavor. Of course, you can go overboard. And as usual, ymmv.

Don't matter much on the brand, keep it fresh and people will drink
it.
Charlie

good coffee, made well, or no coffee.

Funny observation. I'll be 44 in a couple months. Growing up, my dad was the only adult I knew that didn't drink coffee. It was at the center of every social (non-drinking) event I was at growing up, and adults had coffee with every meal. It seems to me not nearly as many people my age and younger drink coffee... or at least not as seriously.

I aquired a little taste for coffee in my very late teens. I've never paid for a Starbucks coffee and have no plans to (although the pro-carry situation might make me consider patronizing them once). That being said, my wife doesn't drink coffee and I don't drink enough to warrant buying a brewing pot, so I drink a cup or two of instant Maxwell House per day, and usually only in cool to cold weather. On the road, prefer Burger King's cup of Joe, or Pilot's House brand.

Short answer, my tastes lean towards the basic stuff, done right.

Just a good cup of coffee, not interested in the "gourmet" stuff at all. A good Columbian or the run of the mill whatever they use at Mickey-D's, Circle K kind. Strong & black is my only requirement.

Rainshadow1, I was in Seqium Friday afternoon right next door at Costco, I get up there a couple of times a month and do shop at the Home Depot every now and then so I may stop by and see if your in and introduce myself..

I like 8 O'Clock coffee. It's not a premium brand and it's not a gormet brand. You can get it at Walmart for just a little bit more than folgers and the other "top" brands. Give it a try if you get a chance. kwg

I like the walmart house brand Columbian and the Arabaca.

More thanks guys, I really appreciate the input.

W7ACT, hoping to start early May. Hope to meet you. I'll probably be there early and late, my wife will handle things through the middle of the day. I'll be at home with the kids making knives and calls!

What Bristo, ringworn and Dutch said. Nothing like a good cup of black coffee, but burned bean coffee is only for adding the fruits, nuts, flowers and other ancillary flavors for a hint of coffee taste.

Most lumber yards, hardware & construction materials companys have coffee in the AM for free

What Bristoe said.

Remember, too, that when you're a guy hittin' the big box store to get supplies for a DIY project, to SAVE MONEY, but per usual ends up over budget - you charging significant money on an impulse coffee walking out the door, right after getting clobbered at checkout is maybe not a great strategy. But $0.75, eh, probably got that rattling around the pocket. Just my opinion as a frequent shopper.

http://www.peets.com/learn/review_read.asp?rdir=1&ID=1323&type=0&item=coff

Best coffee I've ever had, bar none.

The specialty, premium roast. To be precise "Vivace".

Press fresh ground coffee... Pressed coffee is great...

I've been in the restaurant business my whole life. I worked for Starbucks for almost three years. Considering your plan and who you will be selling to (the "general" public), here are my thoughts:

1. A 75 cent cup of coffee will taste like a 75 cent cup of coffee (crap) and won't have broad appeal.

2. A $2.25 cup of coffee will taste much better, but damn, that's an expensive cup of coffee. That will not have broad appeal at all!

3. Brewed coffee is a very high margin product. Sell it.

4. Go somewhere in the middle. A good cup of coffee with broad appeal will be medium to mid-dark in roast and run about $1.50 per 12 oz. cup. There are plenty of good options for beans that will deliver quality and margin.

Good luck!

Thanks guys, I really appreciate this input and will take under advisment.

remfak, I appreciate that very much.

Go with Community Medium Roast, 12 oz. for .75!

Taste great, not too strong for the lite drinkers and has some taste for the strong drinkers.

At 1.50 a 12 oz. cup, you wont sell any around here. We pay .50 for a 12 oz.

Dude at the store went up to .65 and stopped selling coffee, one week later it was back at .50.

I feel the same way, but up here "coffee" are gussied up 'til they're 6, 7, even 8 bucks!

If it were me, I'd sell 16 oz cups. For a lot of coffee drinkers, a 12 oz. cup is like a shot glass. A 16 oz cup won't cost you a hell of a lot more, but the value will be there for the customer. Keep the price in the $1.50 range, give or take a small bit.

AT a Big Box hardware store? Go for the cheap stuff, which is still pretty good. No gourmet coffee. Can't see a manly man in overalls ordering a triple soy latte decaf.

Yep, no gourmet coffee, no gourmet prices... just good, fresh, and hot.
What did we do a few years back before Starbucks?

I kinda felt the same way, we'll see.

I really appreciate the thoughts, guys. Hope to hear more...

Oh, and I thought the 8oz was the shot glass and the 12 was the serving. The 16 is the road trip! But then again, I'm not the coffee drinker!

Seems the "all day long" guys drink it weaker...???

Just remember, it ain't really coffee if it won't float a horseshoe.

I used the VIA on the last campout I took, it did the trick for me.

Folgers.

==========

Have a bunch of Starbucks all around me and a streetful of folks always with a Starbucks cup in their hand but I have never heard of VIA, till now.

Don't rape the working guys over a damn cup of coffee. You're not a diner giving multiple free refills with high overhead. If you can't supply a decent 16oz cup of coffee for a buck (tax included) I'd find another line of business. Don't forget if they stop for a coffee they will buy a danish to go with it but if prices are out of line they will run through the McDonalds drive thru.

Could do a 16oz Folgers for a buck. Wife doesn't like the idea.

Still working on it....

I admit that i really do like a good cup of coffee, that said i would opt for the fresh ground reciently roasted gormet, but if you scrd me i'd never be back no matter what

I can't imagine actually paying for a cup of folgers coffee, but that's just me.

Enough said. The question though is who will be your customers, your wife and homeowners with upper scale tastes or contractors and their crews just looking for some caffeine? You might want to spend a day in the parking lot, investigating how many and what type of customer shop at what time of day. That might give a starting point. On the other hand, how long does it take to brew a pot of coffee? Might be worthwhile to invest in an extra thermos carafe and have both available, at least until you know your market.

MJB or Yuban, can't stand that gourmet stuff, and then Hot, Black, and Strong!


Phil

I have and still do drink a ton of coffee. I have had all kinds, especially when stationed in Panama for three years. Get a decent quality premium coffee and brew it right and 90% of people will be happy. When it is done brewing take it the hell off the burner and remove the grounds and filter. Put the coffee in a thermal container of some sort. Your customers will let you know what improvements you need over time if any. IMHO starbucks blows. Not to offend but it tastes bitter and burnt to me. Check your area and see if you have a small mom and pop operation that roasts their own beans. That would be my first choice if you are so lucky to have one.

X2

Best columbian coffee out there....

The drip and gourmet would work best. My last brewed cup here at home was from Rwandan beans, burr ground. The last few types of beans were Colombian, El Salvadorian, Malaysian, Panamanian, and others I forget off the top of my head. If you want to be even more serious find the best coffee farms and buy their products. Unlike some others, I like a dark roast, in part, because it has less caffeine but a full bodied flavor. I still buy regular drip by the cup but it has to be fresh and strong. I can only recall one well brewed cup that was too strong and that was in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. It was a demitasse and about half powdered grounds and half coffee. That was the only time I've used sweetener, two of the pink stuff and as much cream as would fit. It stung, even after that; yeah, I guess I'm a wimp. I willingly pay for the better coffee That rarely includes Starbucks except for their Via instant which is my travel coffee Did I mention I like coffee?

After reading this thread I think it's obvious what you need to do

Drummond