Climbed high... looked far










A massive Manzanita drenched in rain...



Somehow I was reminded of Geronimo... a man that had just had enough.

The Mexicans gave him that name when he came to kill those that murdered his family. They couldn't kill him with guns even when he was reduced to a knife... It was said his spirit was so strong no bullet could kill him... and it was true.


I... am Geronimo

Kent

Nice pictures - - out scouting for mulies -- ??

Very nice krp

Geronimo

Some nice guns have been attributed to him over the years. The Walter Hill movie about him is a good one, even if it focuses on the white eyes.

Not exactly a guy I'd sit around with and share a bottle of whiskey!


Nice pics.

Ha, Josh gave me your message... he got it right I think. My spot struck out for a 'Grande' Coues.... Bear, Elk, turkey and a coues doe was all. We'll keep looking for him, he's a great young man.

Couple more weeks till serious Mulie scouting.



Geronimo was friendly at first until the Mexicans killed his family and then White settlers started pushing his tribe off their land... Bet He'd be a hell of a guy to talk with, whiskey or not... I'd like to.

Kent

Imagine if he'd had a Ruger 10-22 and a crate of ammo.

He was hell on wheels with a knife, he used to say he just 'killed Mexicans with a rock' and he did.

Old age and just being tired defeated him, not the enemy.

Kent

Apache blood is a good thing for me I think. My grandfather was 100% Mescalero. I often wonder if that's why I am a good hunter and tracker.
I really enjoy seeing that poster of Geronimo and some of his warriors with Homeland Security under it!

Nice pics Kent!

Like to give him a big knife, a lot of rocks, and put him back on the border today!

krp;
Thanks for sharing the photos of your part of the world, it is very beautiful. At some point in my life I hope to take the drive to see it.

Thanks again for sharing the scenery and stay safe out there Kent.

Regards,
Dwayne

The only thing that scared an Apache was a Navajo, one of the most peaceful tribes to whites, probably because no one wanted their land at the time. Anyway it is said if a Navajo wants to kill you, they never stop till they do or you kill them.

I would rather sit and talk with an Apache more than a white eyes, they are quick to laugh and their singsong voice strikes a chord.

Kent

Indians, in my eye, are the only race of folks that can truly say that the white man [bleep] em.

That's sure some fine country.I can understand why Geronimo fought so hard to keep it.

I think we should give the Chiricahuas back to the Apache and Enrique as chief... would stop the illegals lickity-split... just say'n

Enrique, I was thinking you may not have to buy a permit when we fish on the Rez... being a cousin and all.

Kent

If ya'll EVER get the chance,....Hike up into "Cochise's Stronghold",.......

there's a LOT of magic up in that area, and it's a great place to kick back and read some local history.

GTC

When Geronimo died ... (drunk in a ditch on the side of the road) the doctors finally got a look at him. It is said that he had at least 50 bullet woulds across his whole body. It is true bullets could not kill him.

The US Army could not catch and keep him ... he finally surrendered and was under arrest for 20 years at Ft Sill Oklahoma. They let him out when he was old and feeble and not considered a threat. The cement floor in the cage they kept him in is wore down from him walking around in a circle.

Back in the day he would kill Mexican's and scalp them and have their scalps turned in to the US Army as Apache scalps for the reward $'s. Then use the reward $'s to by guns and ammo to use against the US Army.

These pictures are from on top of the 'Rim', though I am within a few miles of the White Mountain Apache reservation, another one of my annual haunts during elk season.

I haven't been to the Chiricahuas in a few years and feel the pull to go back, maybe in January during archery deer season... the magic is definitely strong there.

Kent

I have drawn 3 tags in unit 23 ... I really like that below the rim hunt. The little town of Young is a neat place. Nice country but not enough water for me !!!!

Here is one that I keep by my computer: Geronimo is the left horseman. The others, left to right, are Perico (holding the baby),Naiche and Tsisnah.



The photo was taken by C. S. Fly in the Sierra Madre of Mexico in 1886, shortly before Geronimo surrendered to General Nelson A. Miles.

my great grandfather was Lipan Apache

Btw has anyone seem deadliest warriors on spike? An Apache's short range weapon of choise was a knife.

What a great comparison to such a warrior, my guess is that he would be pleased.

one of my daughter's favorite shirts:

There are myriad books about the various Apache tribes and bands, and I've read quite a few, but my favorite is "Life Among The Apaches 1850-1868", by John C. Cremony, Rio Grande Press, (c)1970. My edition is a printing from the original book by Cremony, published in 1868.

Cremony was there right in the middle of the Apaches, was very fluent in the Apache language, and became, to a degree, friendly with the great Apache leader, Mangus Colorado.

If you want a very interesting read about Apaches of "the old days," pick up a copy of Cremony's book.

L.W.

Cremony's book is necessary reading for anyone seriously interested in a first hand account of the Apaches with which he lived. However, a significant number of the accounts and events that he included contain misinformation or are just plain wrong. The written history of the Apache is rife with anglo ego-centric points of view.

Some of the better stuff comes from the writings of Grenville Goodwin, a self-trained anthropologist who lived with the Apaches in Arizona and New Mexico while some of the old-timers were still around. Despite his lack of formal training, his work was valued by colleagues in academia and several books detailing his observations have been published.

Most wouldn't understand the reference, nice to know some do.

A Manzanita, especially that size is something that will stand tall and nothing will move it except old age and time, it can't be defeated in battle. You go around, can't go through, the arms will bend then snap you back like a slingshot, and that's the medium sized ones. I swear you could take the branches and make leaf springs out of them. Hard as ironwood.

This was the outside edge of a huge grove running down a ridge for almost a mile, only a couple times have I ventured inside and it's a dead end maze. Should have taken a picture of the bear poop along the edges as they ate the berries, it was everywhere, thought it would be a Chitty picture literally. Many animals live inside for protection, elk, deer, bear especially like manzanita.

Anyway, spread your arms to block entrance, throw back intruders, protect those that reside there, impervious to attack.

I am.... Geronimo...

Anyone else want to take up the mantra?

Kent

Want to read about Geronimo read Tom Horn written by Tom Horn. Horn knew Geronimo personally and lived with him. A very good read if you haven't read it.

I have that picture hanging over my desk as i type this, and i have a rifle similar to that that came off the san carlos reservation, and i have a arrow that is attributed to his clan. I think of him all the time, and he belongs back in arizona, not where the federal government parked him.

i do not know about that, i sure as h*ll have spilt enough whiskey in my day with apaches.

Not really, up to the time he surrendered to Crook he could literally still run with the horses all day long.

The Apaches were strong family people, he couldn't give up his family and taking them on the run had become to much of a burden. He would not leave them on a Reservation.

While in OK Geronimo would show off or display his highly athletic skills to writers well up into old age.

The Apache was the greatest guerrilla warfare specialist of all time, ime. His closest relative were the Indians in the Yukon area of Alaska and Canada. The ones the Jack London described in his book Call of the Wild.

The Apache were pretty keen on raiding the Navajo
shepherd/farmers and taking from them.

Here's picture of a buck with his wife, Fort Apache.



I lived in Gen. Crooks home on officers row Fort Apache during the summers till it was turned into a museum mainly because of all the Apache artifacts that my family collected and hung on the walls.

I am.... Geronimo...

Anyone else want to take up the mantra?

Kent

I believe i understand your frame of reference, so to speak.

when geronimo is mentioned i must always add this, it is my understanding that not all of his band surrendered.
Supposedly from what i have read they were still running wild into the 1920's/30's. Mexico and this country until that point mounted various expeditions against them but were never able to do the job.

Some serious truth to that.

Any of the Native American's still cause trouble?? I know up on the Canadian border elements of the Mowhawks have been in confrontation.

They picture below became one of those iconic pictures taken during one of those "confrontations"

'when geronimo is mentioned i must always add this, it is my understanding that not all of his band surrendered.
Supposedly from what i have read they were still running wild into the 1920's/30's. Mexico and this country until that point mounted various expeditions against them but were never able to do the job."

The "Bronco" Apaches were a small remnant that remained in the Sierra Madre until probably almost 1940. They probably never numbered more than 30-40 at any one time.

In 1927, a small group surprised Francisco Fimbres and his wife Maria Dolores, who were traveling from their home in Nacori Chico to Pinos Altos, the site of a gold mine 40 kilometers up in the Sierra Madre. Maria Dolores was killed and their little boy, three year old Gerardo was kidnapped. (Their baby, Soledad, had been left at home). Francisco had given Maria Dolores (who was pregnant with their fourth child) his horse to ride and was walking with his two-year old daughter Vicki on Maria's horse when they were jumped by Apaches at a sharp bend on a narrow trail.

The attack was so quick that Fimbres could do nothing. The Apaches pulled down the horse that Maria was riding and stabbed her and slit her throat, throwing her body down into the canyon below the trail. Fimbres' rifle was in a scabbard on the horse that Maria had been riding and he had no chance to get to it. If he had tried, probably both he and Vicki would have been killed as well.

Fimbres' father in law was a relatively wealthy rancher and he financed many expeditions to try and punish the Apaches. At one time, Americans were forming an expedition comprised of wealthy sportsmen to travel into the Sierra to hunt, fish and chase Apaches. It attracted a lot attention in the east coast and west coast papers, but was quashed by the U.S. State Department before they could cross into Mexico from Douglas, AZ.

Finally, in the early 1930s, one of Fimbres' sorties did catch a small band of Apaches in a camp--mostly women and children. One Apache woman said that Gerardo, who would not stop crying, had been killed shortly after the kidnapping by one of the women who bashed his head in with a rock.

By the time that Grenville Goodwin started trying to make contact with these Apaches around 1940, with the help of Apache friends from the San Carlos Reservation, they could find only camps that had been unused for several years..

Wounded Knee is still wounded, I don't think they've gotten over it. Don't know if they ever will.

Most tribes today are more concerned with profits from gambling casinos.


Mudhen, very interesting.

Google "AIM" ( American Indian Movement ),...and Leonard Peltier, for starters , Pete.

If you run short, get back to me.

GTC

Should sent them blankets like the British supposedly did up north....

Don't forget Quannah Parker and his Comanche, not to take away from Geronimo & the 'pache but they were also the scourge of both Mex & the anglo's.

most of my experience has been around the yavapai apache, which they call themselves. The heard museum where i was at one day, said they wern'et apache. I think they need to tell that to the yavapai. They have pretty much been integrated into local society for a long time. Truthfully, i have more in common being raised and having gone to school with them then many of the later arrivals to the central arizona area. As a group, they were pretty highly thought of in local circles and it is jus a fact they would not have their reservation, casino's etc. without a lot of help from the local anglo businessmen at the time.
A few years ago i was on the rez buying gas next to a member about my age. As we started comparing notes and friends, had a good time complaining about the kalifornicators that had moved into the area.
By this stage of the game, there has also been some integration into the white communities too. An example would be my nephews have gila indian in them. But then my wife has cherokee in her. Strangely the old habits dont go away. one of these nephews spent a week with a blanket in the matzatal wilderness area packing a few years ago.

i live on a dirt poor indian rez with Lakota(Sioux) and Assiniboine on it and a smattering of others......lots of crime and drugs typical of any poor area but as a white boy thats lived his entire life on it and a from a family thats been in the area for close to 100 years it aint a big deal.....granted here i am the minority but whatever, never had a problem due to race or any of that....know lots of good folks in the tribes....also know a heck of alot of tribal members here spend time in the military.....

Quannah Parker was a half breed and the Comanche played hell in TX . one of my ancestors was one of the first Texas rangers and was killed by Comanche's. i think Alan_R_McDaniel_Jr is also a decedent of this Ranger

Yep, his mother was a white capture that went native. She died when finally returned to her white family and moved away from her stomping grounds.

A good book on him and her is "Empire of the summer moon".

If I remember correctly, Geronimo's real name was not
Geronimo. It was a name given to him by the Mexicans,
his birth name which I cant remember right now, translated
into English meant, "He who yawns"

I have also heard that when Geronimo and his men surrendered
to the USArmy that they had hidden their rifles in a canyon
and they were never found. Then again, I dont beleive everything that I hear.

Goyahkla, Goyaał�: "one who yawns"



I speak alot in symbolism, especially in this thread. I'm 53, I was out yesterday humping the mountains in some rough country with two hard hunting brothers in their twenties, Josh said I needed to stop and let them take a break now and then... Cory said, which leg did you break, It's like trying to keep up with a mountain goat... last sept when I was in the hospital after surgery to fix my leg, a woman doctor came in and asked if I was as old as my chart said, I said I guess if it say's 52. She asked if I was an athlete and I said, nope, just a redneck. She laughed and said, well I just had to see for myself after looking at your chart.

Never the less, I feel old and tired... in the soul.

I am... Geronimo

Kent

"Endeavor to persevere."

Mudhen, interesting story and thanks for the explanation about "Bronco Apaches."

I read awhile back about a guy that shared a campfire with an Apache that he referred to as a "Bronco" somewhere in the Sierra Madre. This was shortly after Geronimo's surrender and the writer said this Apache still started fires without matches (something that he claimed meant they rarely had contact with whites) and still wore the Apache boot, tools, and had clothing items that showed he wasn't an agency Indian.

i have a early book, published in the 30's the only other copy i know of is in charlotte hall museum in prescott.
it talks somewhat of the apache.
they had various real entertaining ways of prolonging the enjoyment of watching a guy scream.

Which Indian chief said" We hunt,we eat well,we sleep well,we have lots of babies and the women do everything else-carry wood,carry water,prepare meat, cook, clean, we pay no taxes, we don't go to any schools, have no use for money, only the whiteman would think that he could improve the system."
True quote.

My first school was Cynthia Ann Parker Elementary in Houston.

Quanah's mother.

Been through the town of Quannah, TX quite a few times when son & I were driving OTR.

Quanah , Lee . Only one "N" - same as his name .It's just up the hiway from where I sit .

My father's father was half-Comanche and half white . His young Comanche mother left him at the Indian School at Decatur Tx when he was 12 but she remained in contact with him .

She never divulged who his white father was but the Gov't records say a Missouri man , name unknown .