My 11 yo old son Tyler has been having trouble with a kid at school. For the past three years this kid has picked on him and talked a lot of shi++. Nothing too physical but there has been some occasional pushing in the back when he's not looking and that kind of crap. Mostly just getting in Tyler's face and talking crap around school.

They have played on the same baseball team the past three years and played on the same football team last year. Tyler took great pleasure in planting the kid on his ass a few times during football practice last year. I kind of figured that would solve the problem but it hasn't.

The bully is your typical story. Comes from a large family in this small area who have a little money. His mother doesn't work so she helps out a lot at the school and is friends with most of the teachers.

Bully started a fight at school with another kid earlier this year but didn't get in trouble. Other kid was reprimanded.

Dad is fairly well known in this small area and acts just like his son. Dad doesn't coach but always interjects himself into every first practice, baseball and football that his son has, then uses his small town influence to ensure his kid gets to play. I've watched this crap for the last three years, seen better players than his kid sit on the bench, while the bully gets to play the entire game.
Makes me want to punch Dad in the mouth myself!!!

As so often is the case, kids raised like this walk around with a sense of entitlement, think they are the coolest, and the best at everything. When someone like Tyler comes along and threatens that ideology, they think they have to pick on them.

To this point I have told Tyler to take the high road but the little guy can only take so much. The bully had been telling everyone at school that he was going to kick my son's ass after a baseball game last night.

After the game Tyler and I simply left like we always do. If the bully had intentions of fighting that night I sure didn't see it. Dad didn't want none either as I intentionally sat about three feet from him the whole entire game. He had not one word to say, not one! Today bully goes to school and tells everybody Tyler is a punk and is scared to fight him.

As I said a kid can only take so much....Tyler came home to today and told me he is tired of turning the other cheek and wants me to give him permission to kick the bullies ass at school on Monday.

He says Monday because they have a school trip on Friday and he doesn't want to get kicked out of school until after. What do you think? Should I let him??? I'm thinking yes!!



X-VERMINATOR

It's the only way either of them is going to learn anything.

Hope you've given him the rules about fighting speach already.

Brian.

rules, there's no stinkin' rules in fighting. fight to win.

Let him go to the punk's ass. Why does there always have to be an A-hole like that in every communtiy?

Rule #1 - there are no rules
Rule #2 - WIN at ANY cost
Rule #3- hurt him before he hurts you
Rule #4 - if you aren't fighting dirty, you aren't trying hard enough
Rule #5 - there are no rules

Brian.

oh those rules

It's been going on since the cavemen days, and it will still be going on when all of us are dead and gone.

Brian.

This day and age...your kid might be submitted to anger management classes...be declared mentally ill...and barred from the 2nd admendment...for life. Make him a puzzy and say I will not stand...I will let the teachers union handle it. Cause they will take it seriously..and get the bully the protection he needs.

My day and age...let your son beat his ass senseless...next year they will be best friends...just sayin

Tell your Kid to pound him off school property.

That's sage advice, even though the school will still get involved even if it happens 3 states away.

Brian.

There are worse things than getting suspended for a few days, and letting yourself get bullied is near the top of that list....at least that's what I told my son.

The fact that your son WANTS to personally deal with this issue speaks well for you and for his own character.

Give me 15 bucks and a Dr Pepper I can have that kid gone.

Smartass!

My son was going through the same thing a couple of months ago and I'll tell you what I told him.

Hit em first, hit em hard and don't stop hitting till he don't want no more.

I first told my son to talk to the principle and give him every fair warning possible that if the kid didn't shut his mouth, Augustus was going to shut it for him. He relayed this info to the principle and told him what I said to do. Me and the principle had already covered this ground and he knew where I stood, so what happened the next day didn't come as a surprise.

Long story short, the boy needed an attitude adjustment and that's just what my son gave him. Of course with that comes the problem of a new-found power that he feels he can use at will. Going through that actually right now.

Parenting, there's a whole lotta things they didn't tell me when I hired on with this outfit.

The boys have another baseball game Friday night. I thought about confronting bully dad and bully son after the game. With Tyler in tow..... ask bully dad if he wants to take the boys around back and let them fight 'till somebody quits.

I don't think bully dad would go for it though, and I'd probably just end up getting thrown in jail.....Still thinking about it 'cause the dad needs punched out anyway just for raising such a turd!


X-VERMINATOR

My dad always told me that if I ever started a fight he would whip my ass. He also told me to never back down from anybody and to stand my ground. He said never start it but always finish it.

I was in the 7th grade and a kid got in my face, My parents were divorced and I was smack dab in the middle of a custody battle and wasnt really myself. Anyway, this kid kept trying to get me to fight him and I never would, one day he said something about my mom and pushed me and I threw him off the bleachers and beat him like a runaway slave.

The coach wanted to give me licks and I wouldnt let him so he sent me to the principals office. The principal wanted to give me licks and I told him that if he called my dad and let me explain what happened I would let him. He called and gave his version and then hung up. I was devastated thinking that my old man had let me down. The principal told me that my dad was on his way and to get ready for licks as soon as he got there.

I WILL NEVER forget what happened that day. My dad came in, listened to the principal tell him how bad I was for what I had done. My dad asked me what happened and I told him everything and I was 100% honest with him. My father looked at the principal and said "if you put your hands on my son, EVER, I will come down here and put my hands on you!". He asked the principal if he was clear enough for him. The principal just looked at him and said yes.

My dad was a big dude, all american college football player and built like a brick [bleep]. Nobody wanted to mess with him. He was hard but he was fair, if I had been in the wrong he would have let the principal give me licks then given them to me himself but a lot harder.

He told the principal that he was taking me out of school for the rest of the day. I'll never forget that he took me to Dairy Queen and told me that he was proud of me. He was proud of me for defending my mother and for standing up for myself. He was most proud that in my time of need I stood up to adults and made them call him so he could do the right thing by me.

I will never forget that lesson and will pass it along to my children. The sad thing is that we live in a different day and age but I will still continue to live the way my father taught me


Basically, I would tell your son that if the bully starts a fight then its OKto end it but to not pick the fight. I would then tell him that if there is a problem to call you asap so you can help defend him.

The dad will cost five more dollars and a Pepsi. But no one could find them.



Nah, if someone was fronting([bleep] with, I am learning street talk) my son, I would buy two pairs of UFC gloves and have them duke it out. Winner is the one that stays in the longest.

I was lucky to have a dad who was 6'4 and weighed 280 pounds. Pure muscle and a face that would stop anyone from challenging him. Plus he was a police officer-retired as a lietenant. He had one talk with my about fighting after I had a squabble in grade school. He told me to never start a fight, always walk away when possible. If the other guy throws a punch, hit back and finish the fight as quick as possible. And NEVER hit a guy who is down. I followed these rules throughout the rest of my life. Got called chicken for walking away but mostly talked the other person into seeing reason.
I only had one incident as an adult. My sister, who lived four houses away, had an abusive boy friend who hated my niece because she stood up to him and let him know what she thought of him.
One night my nephew came up to the house to tell me that this jerk was beating up my niece (who was probably 12 or so). I called the cops. They arrested him and hauled his butt to jail. My sister followed the cop car and bailed him out. She chewed my niece out for upsetting the jerk.
A few nights later same thing happened. I told my nephew to wait ten minutes and then call the cops. I went down to the house and there was the jerk on the front porch kicking my niece with his cowboy boots. I did a little attitude correction right then and there. Never saw a guy get on a motorcycle and take off so fast in my life. When the cops got there I explained what happened. They knew this jerk -he had a looooong history of beating women-and basically laughed about what happened,
Dude never came back to my sister's house. Went looking for easier pickins I suppose.
I still smile when I think about what I did. Could have been in trouble but would have been worth it.
Sorry for the long personal story but I have a point. Do the right thing and fight fair and for the right reason.

Went through this with more than one big bully as a kid, and have watched such situations evolve to the point of ridiculousness in the current school scene.

Was just average in size but very big on "don't touch me", and was raised the same as huntsonora. Never picked a single fight and kicked butt rather heavily the few times the bully hit or pushed me first. The teachers/principal did talk harshly to me, but they were smarter than today's "educators" and knew these things are best left to the kids.

Since you ask, my thoughts are: do not get yourself involved with the dad or kid, verbally or otherwise; advise your son not to instigate an attack merely in response to lies or insults - let those go because anyone with sense will know the bully for what he is; if he is going to respond forcefully, he should do that away from the school and, preferably, away from any crowd or gathering; if he decides to respond to some physical attack, he should strike suddenly, hard and relentlessly until the other kid is down, crying and whipped. Then walk away.

I like triggerguard1's solution. Whatever happens, make sure of 2 things: 1st, Your son does not start anything. If the other kid is the aggressor in front of witnesses, it will be better for your son. 2nd, be supportive of your son. It sounds like he was willing to avoid trouble for as long as possible. However, this other kid called the tune, maybe it's time to do the dance. If your son gets thrown out of school, go fishing or something.

Other advice for your son: don't hit him in the head unless you go for the nose, you might break your hand. A kick to the knee will take him down quick. If he stays down, let it go. If he comes back at you, keep knocking him down until he quits. If he pulls a weapon, run. There is always tomorrow. Finally, don't turn your back on him while he's still able to fight. If it's over, back away and then move out of the AO.

What's with the Marquess of Queensberry rules? This isn't a sporting event.

Fighting under the presumption of "fairness" damn near got me killed as a child and physically damaged me for life. I have to take around $2000 a month in meds because of it.

Protect yourself at all times, while being as aggressive as possible. If you knock the guy down, jump on top of him and keep wailing on him until he goes out or someone pulls you off him. If you want to put the boots to him instead, that's fine too. If he knocks you down, you better get back on your feet ASAP or he's going to do the same to you.

If you don't fight like it's life and death, you're going to get hurt and hurt bad. Take that from someone who learned the hard way.

Brian.

First of, kudos to your boy for asking permission....


Second, let him unload on the bully. Will be good and teach then both valuable life lessons!!


Edited to add:
I am not a fighter, I have been punched once (laughed at the guy who punched me) and I have thrown one punch (shattered his nose).

My dad always knew if I was to thrown down, there was a good reason for it. He only taught me one rule, and I will always follow this and pass it on.... He said if I'm ever in a fight, I keep throwing blows until I can no longer throw, or the dude is out cold, or until someone pulls me off. He told me 'last thing you want is to leave someone half conscious so they can get up with a weapon and return the favor!"

I don't know why, but this really cracked me up. Hey bud. Not just a Dr. Pepper. It has to be a Dublin Dr. Pepper. This needs to be done properly.

X2 on the Dublin D.P. - I'm pretty sure it only comes in bottles. We always fought under the bridge away from school, everybody knew that.

I think that's a great idea. Or ask them to come to meet on remote neutral territory to settle it.

I dealt with bullies wherever it happened after I found that was best in 4th grade. That was in the 60's and times have unfortunately changed, but the need to resolve this kind of thing has not.

I don't like it. That's going to turn into some halfway "boxing match" with rules.

Totally agree WB....

If you go in half ass, you'll come out with half of one left.

Tell your son that you don't condone fighting, but to defend yourself at all costs. I drill that into my boys all the time.

Tell him to hit first,hit hard and first punch to the nose, his eyes will water and then kick the chitt out of the punk.

Make sure the fight is out of camera sight and no witnesses. Kid must have fallen down while bike riding.

Do not make contact with the other parent to let the boys settle it, it could be used against you in Child in need of Protective Services (CHIPS) case for endangerment or abuse. Watch what you say pre and post incident if it ever develops especially between yourself and the school staff, medical personnel, etc. as they are mandated reporters.

I have seen it happen.

Bad idea.

Boys will be boys and will settle it out one way or another. Either your boy gets his ass whooped or he whoops some himself.

I'm gettin' too old for that crap. When they go down, they're gettin' 250# of ragin' russian right on top.

It's easier to step on things like hands, collarbones and such that it is to wait for them to get up so you can try to knock them down again.

Yeah, I don't see that ending well.
I have an 8 year old that will enter public school (third grade) for the first time next year. He's about the least aggressive kid in the world (and slightly built) and I absolutely dread the thought of him having to deal with a bully!
I only got suspended once in school and it was for a fight. 3 days. Since I followed the 'don't start it but finish it' rule my father also taught me, it was no problem at home. ONE teacher (he didn't care for the fact I beat up his football player I guess) who was also a coach didn't let me make up a missed test (he was a coach and Algebra teacher). That actually hurt.
I've told my son the same thing about never start it but make sure you end it. He just doesn't get it (why you'd EVER have to fight under ANY circumstances) but he is just 8. I pray he doesn't have to find out the hard way.
Good luck to the OP's son!

damn, wish i knew that trick

any guy kicking a 12 yr old girl wouldnt go any where but morgue by gun or club i figure. i woulda thought he was murdering her.

I was a small kid and got picked on quite a bit. I was in about 1st grade and I made it pretty clear at that point if you were going to pick on me, you're going to get a bloody nose or a busted lip.

Happened every time I changed schools, moving or changing grades...whatever.

Sometimes I won, sometimes I lost but it was clear that I wasn't going to take the bullying.

In Jr. High a kid was a year ahead of me was doing the bully deal, and I whooped him pretty good and busted his arm. His buddies were always trying to get me to fight them, but none of them would throw a punch so nothing ever came of it.

In high school they thought they could try it again. Had a little pushing and shoving one day after lunch that got broke up by teachers. They next day a couple of them did it again and I came totally unglued on the both of them. I mean, I issued an ass whipping right there in the hallway that neither of them will ever forget I'm sure. I was banging heads on lockers, throwing elbows, knees, hit one with a back pack full of books. Girls were screaming, teachers were yelling...it was a grand old time.

Point is, none of them ever said another word to me...EVER. Nuttin. So I guess it worked. I did get a few days at home for that one though.

i just hope you taught your son how to wupazz

You must make an appointment with the Principle on the matter. give him or her the details and ask them to do something about it.

If there is no satisfaction or something bad happens after the meeting then go to the next level which may be the Superintendent.

Of course your son should defend himself but just that. No 'beating up' etc.

The main thing that I hope happens with my son is that he doesn't take to it like I did.
I gave a lot of beatings that I wish I had walked away from now. At least my wife and kids never saw that side of me and I pray they never have to.

With the whole Dads and sons event; I would certainly not promote that in any way. Give him the tools to take care of it himself and let him do it at his own discretion and only if necessary. Do not involve yourself in that in any way.

A boy who sees his father throw down could have a tainted view of things from then on. It's best to have that out of your system prior to kid rearing.......

That is exactly what my dad taught me and it's the only way to go. Only let up when he has had enough. And dad needs to stay out of it and only deal with the bullies father.

My uncle gave me those words of wisdom when I was faced with a bully problem. Mom was none-to-impressed at the time, since my uncle was a notorious cleanup man in Texas honkytonks, but the tips and techniques he passed on lasted a lifetime.

One day maybe I'll write a book about Uncle George, as it could enlighten many as to the days gone by when men were men and gardens were best tended to by 8 year old kids while you sat in the shade with a coffee cup, newspaper and a pack of Viceroys.
He was something of a Chuck Norris meets Rancid Crabtree kind of fella and if you understood that, you'd probably enjoy the book......(grin)

of course, you don't hit a guy who is down. that's when you kick him.


well, at the risk of getting flamed as a lawyer puzzy, I'd be real careful about a premeditated beat down. the kids dad sounds like exactly the kind of wimp who will call the police and charge your kid with battery. and sue you. and get the school involved to suspend or expel him. Don't quite know why you need the big dramatic High Noon experience.....a few subtle elbow spikes and in your face "don't f with me" experiences seem like they should do the trick.

my son beat the crap out of two different kids at boarding school in two different years, both of whom richly deserved it. one got him suspended for three days...not much of a fight, but it shut the kid up for good..., one for a week and I had to pay the emergency room bill for the kid he went off on, that one being a pretty significant beat down....and that kid conveniently got caught stealing in the dorm and expelled later that year.

if your boy can accomplish it subtly rather than dramatically in a way that will likely involve the school, the police, and your insurance company, that's the way to go.

of course, you don't hit a guy who is down. that's when you kick him.


well, at the risk of getting flamed as a lawyer puzzy, I'd be real careful about a premeditated beat down. the kids dad sounds like exactly the kind of wimp who will call the police and charge your kid with battery. and sue you. and get the school involved to suspend or expel him. Don't quite know why you need the big dramatic High Noon experience.....a few subtle elbow spikes and in your face "don't f with me" experiences seem like they should do the trick.

my son beat the crap out of two different kids at boarding school in two different years, both of whom richly deserved it. one got him suspended for three days...not much of a fight, but it shut the kid up for good..., one for a week and I had to pay the emergency room bill for the kid he went off on, that one being a pretty significant beat down....and that kid conveniently got caught stealing in the dorm and expelled later that year.

if your boy can accomplish it subtly rather than dramatically in a way that will likely involve the school, the police, and your insurance company, that's the way to go.

Better yet, wait till the last couple days of school, then he won't get in trouble. And if he does,..who cares. They'll forget about it by the time school starts up next fall.

Hope he beats the tar out of that kid. I hate bullies..!

yeah, that's a thought. the day after school is out.

The last time I had a bully try to push me after 4-5 warnings I let him have it! Ended with a bloody nose,split lip,scraped up knee, broken collar bone and fired for assault! I ended with sore hands and a week off but before I left the job site was told to report to another job site on Monday (was Thursday)and the Boss paid me for Friday.Sometimes bully's get there's and it pay to have friends! Clint

Take the reins off the boy and turn him loose. He will know when the time is right. Best you have no part in it or are around when it happens. Tell him once it starts dont stop till either he or the bully cant go anymore. Win or lose that bully and any others around will get the picture that there are easier kids to mess with that him and the bs will be over. If he gets a cuople days off school so be it. Get his make up work have him do it, then take a day off with him and go fishin. Those are the kind of things kids dont forget i know i didnt. Had some of the best conversations with my dad ever on those kinds of days.

Sounds a little bit like my dad. I remember when I was probably about 12 years old he stopped at a bar to have a beer on the way home from work, 3 guys were giving him a ration of chit about something. He shrugged it off for a while but it got to the point where he had had enough so he proceeded to beat the crap out of them. He took some hits but those 3 guys got the worst of it and 1 ended up in the hospital. This was in the early 70's when people weren't so sue happy or so pc.

make sure it is one on one and no witnesses. don't want to see your son on you tube ! i say let er rip ! nip it in the bud now when they are still young. it could fester to murder or suicide later

That's exactly how I feel also.

I had to deal with bullies all during school because I was a little guy (plus I skipped a grade). I went to 7 different schools in the first 7 years of school and I had to prove myself every time I showed up at a new school. I found out early on that it was best to react instantly as soon as someone attempted to bully me. If someone pushes or grabs you that is an assault and my reaction was to hit them as hard as I could as soon as they touched me. It usually only took one bullying attempt and the word got around that I wasn't a good target to pick on. If somebody tried to bully me verbally I'd get right back in their face. If they said they were going to kick my a** after school I'd always say "What's wrong with right now?" They always backed down. I actually had very few fights because when the bullies figured out that I would fight back they left me alone. I gave my son the same advice (he's a lot bigger than I am) and he made it through a pretty tough school system. He got suspended once when he got jumped in the restroom by 2 kids and he started whipping up on both of them. One of the kids got lose and found the janitor. The janitor had to pull my son of the kid he was still whipping on. Both boys told the proncipal that my son had started the fight. I talked to the principal the next morning so the suspension only lasted an hour or so. The other 2 kids got no punishment at all.

Thanks for the advice guys. The wife reminded me about some parents that had charges pressed on them about six months ago for setting up their kids to fight. I decided it's probably best not to go there.

Did give Tyler the green light, just hope he doesn't hurt the kid too bad............Don't need any law suits or hospital bills to pay for!


X-VERMINATOR

First. You as a parent and your son, as a student, document in writing the history of bullying. Mail it to the Principal and the Sup. registered mail. Every time the bully or his dad say or do anything, document it fully. A written report to the SO would be a good idea too. After you get a long list of incidences and sufficiently document that you are trying to get the school to stop this bully and that the bullying is going on during school and after school as well, (do not say or write anything indicating that you or your son intend to fight) THEN when the bullying becomes soooooo bad that it is unbearable, THEN he will, at some point, have to defend himself. He should do so as quickly and as decisively as possible to stop the imminent threat of being beat up. As a school person I would suggest that this be done off school property and not at a school sponsored/sanctioned event. The more you can keep the school out of it the better for yourself and your son. Bullies like to fight at school. There is someone to break it up and they get a lot of mileage out of being in the fight. Out of school they usually skulk off before the fight can happen. If they show up at school with two black eyes and their nose the size of a cantaloupe, they won't want to talk about the fight very much, especially if your son is unscathed.

I had the problem as a kid too. Big kid but good natured. One punk kept it up. Finally had enough before a basketball game one night. I hit him a couple of times and he got me in a leg lock around my waist. For some odd reason he kept trying to sit up. Every time he would I would give him an alternate left or right cross. Cut both cheeks and his nose looked like a sex change operation gone wrong. I didn't have a mark on me, played the game and he never said another word to me. Different day and time.

Oldest son used to take them out so quick they didn't ever get to the office and I was the Asst. Principal! I think he told them that if they reported it he would kick their asses again. He stepped up to a kid who outweighed him by 30# once When the other kid pushed a girl. The other kid backed off quick. Teachers told me about that one. I called him in and told him how proud I was of him.

I can tell you that the arranged fight thing does not accomplish what you want to happen. I did that once and it didn't work for myself or with my son. In my case the kid didn't want to fight so my dad told the other day to shut his own cowardly kid up. He did. My son fought and the tow boys were worn out but the animosity continued. Never did work itself out.

The other two were bigger than I am so nobody really gave them any guff. After watching the youngest one on the football field for four years nobody wanted any part of him. Basketball was just an extension of football for him. He would foul out in a quarter until he learned to foul subtly. But after that quarter the other team was suitably gun shy.

Bottom line is that there is only one way to stop a bully and it ain't reason and rationale. Protect yourself and your son. Document.

Alan

I put up with this crap in school too. This one kid and his crew decided I was their target, and it became readily obvious that nothing short of a severe beating would ever change this. Mom and Dad knew all about it. Dad told me when the time came, I'd know what to do. He was a gentle giant with a little known dark side. He had been a bouncer for several years prior to the war, and had been in quite a few scraps. He had shown me how to throw a punch, how to block one, and how to win a fight. Mom always was against violence of any kind. Finally, after a particularly rough day with the kid and his buddies, even Mom had seen enough. She told me she was opposed to fighting, but that I needed to deal with him swiftly, and harshly. I'm sure this was the toughest thing my mom every had to say to one of her kids.

The next day at school the kid followed me down the hall to lunch and once again pushed me hard from behind. Without a second's hesitation, I spun and hit him squarely in the nose. He went down in a pile on the floor and his buddies came towards me. I hit the closest one in the face, and he went down too. The whole thing took less than 10 seconds. They both had broken noses and horrific black eyes shortly. I never got bullied again. The week of suspension was tough. Dad could only get two days off work, so we only got out fishing twice!

Strike fast, strike first, and keep striking until the threat is eliminated. Period.