We have a 20 year old guy at our church that has confessed to statitory rape with a 15 year old girl. The situation was consentual between the two, but he did have a second encounter with the girl after being told to stay away from her by authorities. We have a safe sanctuary policy that deals with situations like this. The trustees, which I am a member of, put the policy to use, and we will require two adult members of the church to be present with the guy while he is on church grounds. He is not allowed any contact with the youth of the church. The trustees are catching a lot of grief over this. Some feel that we are overreacting to the situation. Emotions are running VERY high over this and many want to show support for the guy and his family despite what he did by letting him off with no restrictions while at church. What do you guys think? Did the trustees overreact? The guy has not yet been sentenced and could get anything from probation to a few years in prison. The fact that he confessed this to our preacher requires us to act to protect the congregation, especially the youth. The policy regarding the guy will be reevaluated once a sentenced has been reached by the court. If he gets probation, I believe there will be a motion made to once again give him free reign over the entire facility, including events with the youth. The guy has been known for some very odd behavior with the younger kids in the past and as a result I am very much against him having contact with them without supervision. This situation is getting uglier by the minute!

The two members with him is a good idea.

He knows better, it was his own damn fault.

There is no overreaction when it comes to kids safety!

Good advise Winnie, For a young buck, you sure seem to have your head on straight. Better to err on the side of caution. The second encounter after the warning makes him a preditor in my book

It's impossible to know if he really liked the girl or if he's a sexual predator. If the later, they're extremely hard, if not impossible, to cure.
He broke both civil and scriptural law. He needs to pay the penalty and your kids need to be protected.

The dude is creepy as hell guys. Many of us never feel comfortable with him around our kids even before this happened. I was actually surprised that he did this with a girl!

A 15YO girl cannot give her consent to have sex...

In CA, a registered sex offender cannot be within 1000 feet of a school or park. I think Sunday School qualifies.

I'd agree with having two adults with him at all times when he's there.

If you don't, and if he commits some impropriety, you can start digging deep in your pocketbooks.

This is the EXACT kind of bs that keeps me out of churches.

He confessed to the preacher, but the "trustees" know better than the guy trained in theology, so you have a group of trustees, that cant make up their own mind and one of them asks for help on the internet?

I doubt this the first time a 20 year old has been with a 15 year old in North Carolina, or any other state.

But I may be a trustee for the church, just so I can find out the good gossip before anyone else does, but you did not hear it from me...............

Dude, a decision was made and we are standing by it. I just wanted to bounce this off some others that may have an interest in giving an opinion. Your last comment is the bs!

Then why cant the preacher make the decision on his own?

The trustees are the legal arm of the church. The preacher sits in on the trustee meetings but does not vote on the motions. He is there as a consultant. He does have to make sure that some action is taken, but the overall decision is made by the trustees and then is finally voted on by the Administrative Council.

Tough situation. IMHO you are correct to protect the church and above all else the youth. If you didn't I would not want the judgement you most likely would get.

If he goes to prison he most likely will be worse when he gets out. He definately needs help.

Behavior has consequences, even forgiven behavior.

why does a church need to be set up like the government, I can see a church council, they decide how to pay the bills, who is going to mow the lawn and stuff like that.

It is not the trustee's job to JUDGE this guy no matter how bad he screwed up.

If the local police department is aware of it, the church needs to stay the hell out of it.

20 year old, 15 year old, more than one encounter (second AFTER being told my authorities to stay away!), has acted "odd behavior" around other youths...

Red flags going up all around for me. He should NOT be allowed around other youths, even WITH chaperones. Legally, he is an adult and has proven himself untrustworthy, even predatory.

I am all for forgiveness, but if you "forget" what he has done, then you are ignoring the lesson and setting him up to re-offend. Do you really want another victim, or the same girl re-victimized?

Ed

Cause some denominations have a board of trustees or deacons that swing a hammer as large as the pastor. Until the whole thing is over, I would not consder what they have done excessive. If it was my daughter, he might not be around to stand trial, and his last church service might be his funeral. But I have a tendancy to over-react when it comes to young girls and men.

We still have to develop a policy that will allow him to worship while protecting the others at chruch. That is for the church to decide at this point. We are not judging him. We are simply working to develop a policy that allows him on chruch grounds while at the same time ensuring that the others on church grounds are safe.

Arm the two adults with AR-15's.

With Jessica's laws in almost every state he is probably going away for ten or more years, but that really has nothing to do with your problem.

If he is really trying to clean up his life then you are on the right track. Letting him attend adult functions and keeping him escorted at all times is just protecting your children from a known danger. It is also protecting the church and even perhaps you trustees from legal action in the chance he molests another child.

I hope the 15 year old is getting the help she will obviously need.

I agree that this 20 year old is a POS. I do not agree with how some things are handled within each church, but everyone is entitled to practice their religeon in their own way.

wilkeshunter, I am sorry for my personal attack, it was rude and uncalled for.

I am going to bow out of this "spirted discussion" and wish you a good night.

brandon

Why do you have to allow him on the church grounds while he is pending adjudication?

Has he been criminally charged? If so, what are his bail conditions? I would be EXTREMELY surprised to learn that it would be OK for him to be around his victim or other juveniles.

Ed

Are y'all so hard up for members that you can't tell the wierdo to go find another church and stay the hell away from yours?

The "Pastor" has responsibility for his flock.He should tell you trustees that the guy is to be gone or he is leaving.

Stand outside the church house next Sunday AM and chunk rocks at him like you would a stray dog.If any of you are guilty of what he has done,don't throw rocks.

But you can shout cusswords at him.

He is allowed because Jesus died for him too. We may not like it but that is the way I read my Bible.

He has been charged and has confessed. He has not yet been sentenced. We do not have to allow him on church grounds, but choose to let him attend with the conditions previously stated. This has been his chuch for his entire life, and he NEEDS to be in church. Despite his actions he deserves God's grace and he deserves to hear the word of God in his church. The other trustees and myself are just trying to make the church available to him, while ensuring the utmost of protection for the others on site. We care about him and his victim, and we are praying for both of them.

If there were no sinners in church there would be no people.

It sure would keep me out!

Jesus also said something about a millstone around the neck for guys who hinder children.

A 15 year old girl is a child compared to a 20 year old man.

The guy is un-repentent.If the people in the church allow him to manipulate them,they are no better than him and I feel sorry for all the kids in that congregation.

This deal is a no-brainer.Run his ass off.Does this particular congregation think they have the market cornered on salvation,for cryin' out loud.

I do not know what is in his heart so I cannot judge. He sinned big time in the eyes of the Lord and the eyes of the law. He should go to prison. But if he asks for forgiveness and turns away from sin then my Bible says he is forgiven.

And before you start down the road about what if it was my child let me remind everyone I am the guy who has three daughters, eight granddaughters and two great granddaughters. I would lay down my life for any of them. And I have a SIL who was raped as a young lady around 18 and has a son she has raised to adulthood as a product of the rape. So no, I am not soft on this kind of sin/crime. But my Bible tells me this man is someone Jesus died for no matter what I think of his actions.

There is no manipulation going on here. Our church does not proclaim that we are the standard for Christianity. We simply try and do our best to create an atmosphere of Christian love. I can assure you that the youth in this church will be VERY well protected. I have an eight year old that will soon be involed in the youth activities, and I have a responsibility to protect everyone on church grounds. This situation may take care of itself if he gets prison time. This guy will not be run off unless there is an attempted incident at church. Based on our policy, there is no chance that he can reoffend unless he trespasses without our knowledge. He has to be escorted onto church grounds, accompanied by two adult church members while on church grounds, and escorted off church grounds each time he comes to worship.

That church needs to make house calls...

We do. We call it door step ministry. It it meant for homebound members and others interested in hearing the word of God.

"Safe Sanctuary" policy, or not (difficult to understand what that really means) - compassion for him and his family, or not - your governing body (trustees) will be doing something stupid, and possibly costly, if you give that fellow the least access to anyone he might harm or harass. Our command to be understanding and compassionate is not a command to subject others - or our church body - to possible harm.

Well,I see several things wrong here.

1.A church should not have unsupervised youth period.The young man in question is not the only young person who might do something on church property or a youth trip if not properly supervised.There should be no need to have two adults watch him at all times,they should be watching all the youth at all times.

2.At 20 years old he should not even be involved in youth activities other than when gathered in the sanctuary with everyone else.The youth should be up to 18 years old.Thoes over 18 should be in a young adults group if you have enough for such a gathering.We have youth and teen clases,and even then they are seperated in close age groups.

3.I don't know the situation with this young man.It could be as bad or innocent as I could imagine.You did say that the sex was consensual.Reguardless of the actual law,IMHO some responsibility lies with the parent or guardian who allowed a 15 year old girl with the 20 year old boy,I mean really ,don't be naive enough to think a sexual encounter wouldn't happen if you put any two of this age together alone.

You say he confessed to the pastor,which would indicate to me that he is repentant.No, you don't need to let anything happen with him again,but it shouldn't be an issue if you have taken adequate precautions from it happening with any of the members.There is no need to single him out as if he is the only one in the church that has ever sinned.

I do feel sorry for the girl and her parents but I also feel sorry for the boy.These kinds of things happen all the time and have since the world began.You just need to teach the parents and church officials that the only way to avoid it is to not let young unmarried girls and boys together unsupervised.

Yes I am raising 3 girls.The oldest is 22 and never dated untill she was 17 and was not unsupervised untill she was 18.You cannot allow your girls to date like the rest of the world and expect different results than the rest of the world.

Stone him

How is this going to end?

I forsee nothing good coming from this.
Is the church supposed to baby sit this man forever?
A 20 year old needs to stand up for his actions.
Even if it means being stoned.

A difficult situation, the key to which is the heart of this young man.

Best possible outcome IMHO would be that he receive help through a prison ministry for the next few years. And the young lady and her parents could stand some counseling & instruction also.

Is this a UMC church per chance?

A buddy of mine had a related situation going on at his church. He was not a part of the decision making group but they invited him to a meeting to offer input. The first question he asked them is how often have they prayed for direction. The room was silent, everyone was looking at the ground. Situations like this cannot be dealt with properly without lots of prayer time.

Once again, we do not have all the information to fully understand the dynamics of the situation. Not blaming you, it's just the medium we are using that limits the amount and quality of the information.

I fully agree that the perpetrator needs God's grace and that he needs the support of his church family and NEEDS to be in church.
My biggest concern is for the victim and other potential victim(s). Another concern is how the youth members perceive the church's treatment of the perpetrator. Does that treatment appear (to them) as condoning or minimizing his actions, or does it appear as concerned, aware, adults trying to keep them safe and control the situation?

With that, I will also bow out, for I cannot offer advice or even effective counsel without fully understanding where you are.

I will certainly pray for you and your church, that you may get the answers you need and that your church holds as a safe place for folks to attend.

Ed

"This has been his chuch for his entire life.....".

That deal don't seem to be working that well for either party.

The guy is twenty years old, goes to church and must be watched because he has been known for some very odd behavior with the younger kids in the past and has concenting sex with a fifteen year old?

Besides this guy being a scum bag, the church allows him on their property and around their children which I find disturbing as the perv's behavior.

Church folks NEED to pray for some common sense....

If this was back when I was born I woulden't have been born. My mother was 15 when my sister was born, My father was 25 so he would of been put in jail and I would of not been made when my mother was 16. she turned 17 just before I was born. Funny how things work. so are we getting too paranoid about 15 yearolds having sex? If god diden't want them to have sex he would of not made them able to have babies at that age,

Exactly what I was thinking. Let him be reformed in prison. How much will the church suffer if something else happens or it loses membership.

I'd want to know more about the girl before I stoned this guy or condemned him to prison. I dated a 15 yr. old Sunday school teacher when I was in high school. She was the biggest slut I've ever dated in my life.

Good grief!
Just gimme some truth..

Ex told me her first time she was 14, he was 18, and she was the aggressor, talked him into it.

Situations such as this the truth needs to be found, before lives are forever ruined.

Agreed but under the law he is already cooked and who was the aggressor makes no difference at all.

This guy was an upstanding citizen, church member and public servant...... Let the 20 year old alone. I'm sure he has alot of "projects" he has to do.... Meddling people, don't you know once saved always saved? He already has his ticket for Heaven.... The rest is history to be made...

That's what I mean. That Sunday school teacher didn't try to talk me into it. On our first date she just unbuckled my jeans, grabbed me by the dick and said "[bleep] the hell outta me". She was an animal in the bedroom and obviously well experienced before I got ahold of her.

What's YOUR sin count this week? Care to share?
Guess God looks at YOU different, cause you're special.
Good luck.
Always love the "this guy is so much WORSE than me" argument, but I'm pure.
In case you haven't read deep enough, God doesn't have a rating system.
Lead on.

That begs the question, Why is she an ex?

I am responsible for my own salvation... So my "sin count" is between me myself and only one other and that "one" other is definitely not you....

So you are defending Dennis Rader and his actions? I sure as heck haven't killed or raped anybody, or had inapropriate relations with a child. Doing it once might have been a mistake, doing it again after authorities have been involved shows low !!!morals!!!DING! DING! DING! DING! and the beginnings of a pattern.

You my friend need to go reevaluate your answer because A "true" repentance is seen in ones actions and not words.

To the OP you are not in the wrong and kudos to you and the board for invoking a precautionary stance. And may the young man involved in this situation come out convicted and not crucified....

Good post.

YOU are responsible for your salvation. WOW. News to me.
Good luck.

Actually, YOU have NOTHING to do with YOUR salvation.

A "true" repentance. Give me a break.
How did you do the next day, after your "true" repentance?
Re-WOW.

As per PAMac: "don't you know once saved always saved? He already has his ticket for Heaven....."
.
Sorry, but that statement is totally incorrect! As Jesus said, "Go and SIN NO MORE (speaking to the prostitue at the time)." Christ himself forgave her but his own admonition was to SIN NO MORE! In other words, clean up your act! A person can fall from grace by their own actions and/or repeating the actions that caused the problems in the first place! Salvation is a gift of God, not works! You can foul yourself up if you aren't careful. Yes, God makes the choice and grants forgiveness, but HE IS NO ONE'S FOOL and he won't be mocked.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

There is other stuff in this book I got about free will and other stuff about choosing and choices and pretty much alot of other stuff about life and it's directions and paths. But I'm sure it doesn't mention anything about henpecking others..... Good on you Brother....or are you? Seems I was just scolded for being special but thats not the case, I just shovel the Donkey doo....

That post was all sarcasm..... To the fact that some see throwing a wolf into a sheep pen seems to be ok. My apologies if it was misconcieved. Seems you have the same book as I!

We really need a sarcasm button. I would use it on about half my posts.

Ok, keep "working" you maybe, could be, possibly, hope to, might if your "lucky" earn it.

Obviously you have been offended in someway, I apologize to you for being offended for views that are not of your own.

On the other hand, I find myself not offended at your intentionally offensive remarks and hope that you are not offended at me for not taking offense to them.... I also may ad that wink was totally and intended as an unoffensive wink and will offer apologies if you have taken offense to my unoffensive wink.

So now can we please get back to the OP's situation at hand instead of creating and offensive hijacked thread? (No offense intended)