A couple gang bangers are up for prosecution on a laundry list of charges; illegal guns, drugs and shooting at law enforcement, just to name a few. Newspaper reports they have ties to gangs in Chicago and Saint Louis.

I received a notice to show up for jury selection and I called the judicial Clerk and told her I object because I have a concealed carry permit, but I can not carry in the courthouse.

Two days later the Assistant District Attorney calls me about my objection and I told him I would not feel safe on the jury unless I could carry my weapon. The ADA told me that this is not the Wild West and I watch too much TV. I countered with, he may be right, but why does the judge pack a gun? He said the judge doesn't pack a gun. I told him to check it out and get back to me.

Today I get a call from a clerk in the DA's office to see if I could attend a meeting in the DA's office tomorrow.

What do you think my chances are to get out of jury selection?

Don't get me wrong, I have been on jury duty in the past and will gladly serve again. I just want to see what the DA does with the curve ball I threw him.

I would certainly ask as to the purpose of the meeting. This may relate more to your specific assertion regarding the Judge's carry.

Very odd to be called in for such a meeting. I'd tread with caution.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree. If I were you, I would concede, show up and know you will be removed via the selection process. Unless you know for sure that the judge carries in the court room, you just asserted that the judge may be violating a state law. Contempt is an ugly thing

"Today I get a call from a clerk in the DA's office to see if I could attend a meeting in the DA's office tomorrow."

How do you go to the DA's office tomorrow if you can't carry?

Except, judges seem to make their own laws.

The liberal ones at least.

I think it's pop corn and beer time. This could get interesting.

Things that make you go "hmmmmmmmm......"

Life has enough chit in it. Can't see the worth in creating more, particularly when there is zero upside.

I thought only legislators did that.

You are screwed. Picking a fight just to see how he handles your "curve ball" is just stupid. But hey, it's your life.

Don't want to hear any pissing and moaning when you get in trouble. You started the fight. ED K

Yeah no joke!

Bullchit. ALL of them do. Don't kid yourself.

As to this meeting, I would not go. I would attend jury selection as required having made my objections known. You can't win this fight. Not until ALL of Americans stand up and demand judges quit being treated like kings.

I'd give in and show up for jury duty. I would love to be on a jury where I had a chance to hear a case on what may be true low lifes and have an opportunity to adjudicate them.

Should be interesting, can't wait to here the rest.

Good luck.

Somehow I don't think we are going to ever hear about what REALLY happens.

It could become a matter of public record.

This is kinda like someone throwing a fit and stomping their feet only to realize they are standing in a pile of dog schit, yet they just keep on stomping.

100%. The other shoe falling is: what do you think your chances are that you are about to be bumrushed into the greybar hotel for being a malcontent?? I'd say 99.99% if there's a bailiff within earshot of the meeting room when you get there. IMO, you'd better show up with an attorney if you want to walk out of there with your wrists uncuffed. Remember, you're on their turf and they have ways of dealing with unruly citizens.

I don't disagree with your sentiments, but damn, you're walking into a buzzsaw.

Just go and do your civic duty and leave the gun at home. Your chances of getting hurt in the courtroom are way less than stopping at a gas station. Now after you convict the worthless SOB's you may have to worry about retribution by his buddies but you say you have that covered. The chances are good you won't serve on a jury panel anyway with your pro-second amendment rights attitude.

Wear a shirt to the meeting that reads: KILL 'EM ALL AND LET GOD SORT 'EM OUT...



Nah - WI finally has a Governor that fully approves of CCW. I don't think you'll need a lawyer, but bring a friend that can be an independent witness to the conversation...

Go get em.

I do not know about any jurisdictions but FL, here a Judge can carry in court, that is fact.

Here is a breakdown of license types and how many of each are in effect as of 11/30/12

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/Number_of_Licensees_By_Type.pdf

The 2012 Florida Statutes

Title XLVI
CRIMES

Chapter 790
WEAPONS AND FIREARMS


790.06;License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.

(12)(a);A license issued under this section does not authorize any person to openly carry a handgun or carry a concealed weapon or firearm into:
1.;Any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05;
2.;Any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station;
3.;Any detention facility, prison, or jail;
4.;Any courthouse;
5.;Any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom;

Ha, ha; no doubt. I think someone will get a stern attitude adjustment tomorrow; one way or the other.

All you have to do to get out of jury duty is say that you either always believe police officers or that you never do. You'll get cut.

What you're doing, while I completely agree with your position regardless of whether the judge carries or not, is suicide.

I applaud you all around!

You are more than willing to serve, you simply are basically asking a question, if the judge can, why can't I?

OTOH if you show up for the meeting, then it'll show you can show up for jury duty. IE you came here for this... why not jury duty.

Last I checked it wasn't against the law to ask on whatever count, they have final say though.

Doesn't hurt to rub the lamp now and then. Wished more people had the balls to do it.

I see no way that they can charge you for anything IE its not suicide.

Good grief.. Y'all are so terrified of any DA... The OP just said he'll serve gladly but wants to exercise his permitted right to carry..

All they can say is either "OK" or "not a chance".. he still may have to serve - maybe he won't, but you guys make it sound like this 'meeting' is akin to entering a gas chamber at Buchenwald..

We're talkin' WI here, not CA or NY..

stealing the judges thunder man......................
he wants to be judge dred, if some gangbanger somehow gets a gun in the court and then whack the [bleep] himself and be the hero


leave your gun at home

the judge probably has guns all over himself anyways like tackleberry from police academy

Not very bright to piss off the highest law enforcement officer in the county. This stunt doesn't take balls, it just shows lack of good judgement. You never know when that county prosecutor has to decide if you should or shouldn't be held accountable for a self defense type shooting since you admit you carry. Use your brain, not your balls.......

Naw, bring a concealed digital recorder. That should be good

Recording someone without permission can get you in hot water in a lot of jurisdictions.

How would it go if everybody was on the record?

You don't say????

They get antsy about that, can't imagine why.

I can't imagine that there's a law against stating that you will be recording this meeting prior to setting the recorder on the judge's desk. Why try to hide it?

Naw, I think he should conceal it to get "the full effect"

Expect to be searched & groped. Ask for a hot chicky to do the deed! You know, for their protection.. They could give less than two chits about your protection. Please post video if the chicky is hawt!

In our county we all know the DA. Speak to each other in passing once a week or so... be awful hard to piss her off. She'd have a laugh and then tell you you need to show up... and you know how to handle the rest.

I could see it end up being political in larger areas though. Though it should not be at all. Simple statement and question. But thats politics ain't it...

In fact, though I didn't see teh DA this afternoon I spoke with the county judge, and he was just finishing up helping put out Christmas lights and had to stop to put his robe on as it was court this afternoon... had a nice chat and on we went.

As long as one asks, and gets the ok, one can do it in this state.

There is NOTHING to get in trouble for, you just voiced an objection. They will hear you out and see if you have any real justification for being uncomfortable with not having your gun ie; past gang troubles etc.

I have been trying to get on a jury for the past 15 years. At least I make the defense waste a strike on me.

Exactly right..

You might want to remind the DA of the DA shot in the courtroom in Grand Marais Minnesota Last year.

It isn't always wrong to charge up a hill with your bayonet fixed.

You want to make sure you really, really want that hill though before you start.

Well, the rotund plant is posting elsewhere on the forum, so he hasn't be reduced entirely to kindling, but he seems mighty quiet on his own thread. Must have got butt clapped at his little meeting.

I took my concealed carry class in the next county over from mine and the man giving the class had the DA from his county give us a talk. He was very much for the concealed carry law and advised us how to not get in trouble with violations. I really liked the man and talked to him at length after the class. I just with he was the DA in my county. miles

Where I live they have metal detectors you have to pass through to get into the courthouse and signs that say firearms are not permitted inside the courthouse. We just can't do it here at all.

There are some seriously paranoid people on here. If you really think it's that bad just say, "No, I can't make it to the meeting." They have nothing to arrest you for (if the conversation went as we were told).

And some irony for you...

I won't let you violate my 2A rights!!! But I will let you waste part of my afternoon my "summoning" me to your office for no reason!!!

Way to stick it to the man...

He was probably a former Hostess union baker.

I would be careful...around here the sheriff has to approve of any concealed weapons permits. You are walking on thin ice. Not to mention all the DA heard was "judge, gun, court, gun, jury, gun"...

Before OJ did his dirty, I got out of jury duty by being a smart ass and calling the judge out in the hall and telling him I figured if he was arrested that was good enough for me he was probably guilty. Judge was instantly pi$$ed. Then I watched the OJ fiasco and decided right there I'd never miss an opportunity to be on the jury of a scum bag. Problem is I've never been called since. We are supposed to be judged by a jury of our peers, but that's what OJ got, a jury of malcontents, unemployed, on the dool, hard cases and he got off. If I ever get another chance there will be at least one person speaking for the victim.

Meeting over with the DA.

DA started by stating the specific reason for the meeting.

1) Did I have specific knowledge that the defendant's, defendant's families or associates issue threats of violence against present or prior judges, law enforcement or jurors?

My reply. No

2) Determine the basis for my objection to serving on a jury due to safety concerns.

My response verbally.

Will there be walk thru or hand held security weapon detectors at the court house entrance or court room?

DA - No

Will there be additional law enforcement in place?

DA - No Bailiff and Deputy Sheriff escorting defendant from jail.

Will the judge be armed?

DA - Do not know and will not ask him.

My lawyer summed up the question and answer session briefly.

"There are going to be violent defendants in your courthouse with known connections to out of state gangs and past criminal records and you demonstrated here today that there is no heightened concern for public safety. It will be business as usual.

My client has deemed serving on a jury under these circumstances not safe unless extraordinary safety measures are put in place or he is allowed to petition the judge for permission to conceal carry a handgun. He asks that you take his objection to serve on a jury to the judge for consideration of a jury exclusion."

Interesting. Thanks for sharing that.

Well played....

That went better than I expected.
"Did I have specific knowledge that the defendant's, defendant's families or associates issue threats of violence against present or prior judges, law enforcement or jurors."
I didn't see them worrying about that but it's understandable.

That's the problem with much of our society they are content to hide under their desks and not challenge the status quo. I saw a safety concern here and decided to run my concerns up the flag pole.

NFS

Sorry to disappoint.

You need to improve your reading comprehension. I said yesterday that I had a meeting with the DA today.

Well done.

I'd say you had some valid concerns with the way they run the courthouse, thats a pretty damnb laxed way of running things.

Around here you can't get into the courthouse for any reason with out going through a metal detector first.

In some jurisdictions bringing a recording devise , telephone or, camera into a courthouse is not permitted (e.g., Federal court buildings). I don't know your local ordinances, but ... something to consider.

"Around here you can't get into the courthouse for any reason with out going through a metal detector first." Same in Fairfax County, VA.

Well I learned something out of that.

IMHO:
Your chances of avoiding showing up for jury duty: zero
Your chances of getting into the courthouse armed: zero
Your chances of being chosen to actually be on the jury:zero

Please let us know how this all turns out!

Roundoak, are you going to serve on the jury if you can't carry?

I will not have to make that decision. If the judge dismisses my safety concern objection and places me in the jury pool, my lawyer assures me that I have a prejudiced position that will disqualify me from jury duty.

Around here, where I like to live, away from flippin azz big cities, there has never been and probably never will as long as I'll live, be a metal detector. hell most dont' even know what one would look like.
In fact I was after someone today to ask a question and I poked my head into the courtroom while trial was on, saw he was not there and ducked back odd. Nod to the LEO and nothing else....

This whole thing frustrates me.

The jury is easily the most important part of the entire criminal justice system. I've seen the damage idiot, biased or apathetic jurors can do and it's tragic.

Serving on a jury is a privilege most people in the world couldn't fathom having access to and one that most in the US seem to avoid. I'll likely never be given the opportunity to serve on a jury that matters and it's frustrating to see good, common sense filled people (ideal jurors) intentionally jeopardizing or outright ruining their chances to do something good for everyone else.

moi ?

My elderly mother used to say, "never pass up an opportunuity to clean up the town that you call home". Like the other poster, I always make the defense use one of their strikes to get rid of my butt.

Nicely done sir and this should serve as a reminder to those of us who like to shoot our mouths off pretending to be "experts" on whatever subject is at hand. I'll bet there are a few people who are wishing they had kept quiet until hearing from you again.

Sir, I tip my hat to you (and your attorney ), I'm buying you an e-beer:

*ahem* I'm one of 'em, I really thought that roundoak was going to get chewed up by "the system".

Si. You should've been fighting to get on that jury instead of playing pitcher. Throw curveballs after you put the bad guys in jail.

IMHO

I had jury duty abotu a month ago. Older lady on trial for assalting her lesbian lover, while drink.

Peak of the rut, beautiful day.. the very smart defense attorney looked at me and immediatly knew that I had a guilty verdict in my heart...(grin) Was dismissed when she asked me what I thought about gays... and drunks.

There never has been, nor never will be a time in which the system doesn't need to also be held accountable.
"Because I said so" is rarely, if ever truly acceptable. Even children know this fact.

Well that went better than I thought. Which is good for you.

And no offense, but I also agree that one should try to get on a jury with the intent of being impartial.

I can't get on one since I'm LE. But I could do a civil trial. Almost got one once. But it had something to do with a guy who was divorced and had custody issues. Since I did as well, they booted me.

gonehuntin,

Thanks for the beer, it was very refreshing.

Wayne

My take on the initial thing is that it was to stand up for a right. And that if it failed roundoak would serve no questions asked.

I may be wrong in that assumption.

Of course when I go to jury duty I don't say anything that will nullify me. I'd prefer to be there and dish it out right or wrong. I"ve been on some where IMHO the LEO side was way wrong IE a speeding ticket, and some where the defenedant needs to stay in jail longer than they'll allow us to punish em for...

Eveyrone should serve.

About ten years ago I had to report for jury duty on November 15th, opening day of the Michigan firearms deer season. So I'm sitting in my chair at 8:00am waiting for us to be called to a courtroom for jury selection. They're really strict here. If you don't show up by 8:00 they'll send a sheriff's car to your house to pick you up. Well it's almost 9:30 when a court clerk walks in and tells us we're going to get a late start, Judge Crane was out deer hunting. I was sitting in the front row, one look at my face and the clerk thought it might be a good idea to exit the room as quickly as possible.

never had any doubt this would be a non-issue. I also am surprised that there is no metal detector. I have been in courtrooms all over the country and have never seen one without!

As a LEO, I was summoned for jury duty half dozen times. I always managed to make the defense waste a strike on me no matter how hard they tried to disqualify me.

I'm surprised a DA would GAF.

It is a sleepy, laid back, rural community in which I reside. Love it. Our sleepy, laid back county government and DA's office can be very naive at times and this one of those times. The "fight" I am in with the judicial system here is not to shirk my duty to serve on the jury, but to get the DA's office to pull their head out of there asses and put some more resources and safety measures in place.

I am not asking them to build a whole new secure courthouse and jail. Get some hand-held metal detectors and wand people at the courtroom entrance. Increase LE personnel. The DA told me the bailiff in the court room and one deputy sheriff escort for the prisoner from the jail to the courthouse was sufficient.

The bailiff is about 5'10" 350 plus pounds that includes a 150 pound belly. I have seen him shoot at the pistol range, he is no marksman...not even close. I expect the only way he could subdue a person is by falling on them.

The deputy sheriff escort is usually a 100 - 110# woman with the seniority to pull light duty. I know them personally and don't think they would be much help in a physical struggle.

News travels fast in this community and word of my meeting with the DA yesterday spread quickly. My cellphone and home phone was busy last night and this morning with friends reaching out to me with their support. Two of them wanted to set up a fund to pay for my lawyer expenses, but I advised them the lawyer work is pro bono. Well, not exactly all of it, I bought the lawyer lunch yesterday. He is from the next county over and we hunt ducks and pheasant together every year.

Received a call from a friend in law enforcement this morning advising that the DA's office is going to call other counties and the military base at Fort McCoy to see if they can borrow metal detectors.

So, Mr. Blue, once again this is not about shirking my responsiblity, which is something I never did having served on two previous juries. If scolding me for my actions makes you feel good about yourself and a better man than I, I am happy for you.

Good on you roundoak. I love it when somebody tweaks the lion's tail....

Interesting thread. I've been a trial court judge for sixteen years, in rural Michigan. I serve in four counties with a combined population of about 65,000. We have no security for any of the Courthouses. I carry, always. Some of the lawyers carry; most do not. I've never been asked by a prospective juror if they could carry. I would have no objection, but would likely ask what they carry, what load they use and what holster.

Always amazes me when people with a bit of authority are concerned about good people with guns.

My friend got out of jury duty this way. They ask him if he could vote a person guilty if the Evidence called for it. His answer was, hell yes and as far as I'm concerned they are all ready guilty or you wouldn't have them in jail, they told him, you are excused go home. He has never been called again for Jury Duty.

Acy you have my salute

We desperately need more like you Sir....

you'd get my vote to be retained as a judge!


man oh man do I miss the old country boy common sense ways that seem to be slipping away from our societies.

so nice to hear they still exist in places!

I was on a jury pool (murder) and a guy done that exact same thing...He told the judge someting to the effect that he'd done made up his opinion and that was that.....

The judge looked at him and stated...Mr. so n so...I am of the opinion that you are in comtempt of this court and you will pay a fifty dollar fine or spend the night in jail...WHAM, the gavel hits the table...

How do you think that worked out for him!?? lol....

Dang that's refreshing. If I walked into my county courthouse with a weapon, I'd make the news for sure.

A judge is well justified in being armed. They get threatened every so often. I used to hunt occasionally with a local judge who kept a 357 Mag right behind the law books on the bench. He'd been threatened a few times and he wasn't taking any chances.

I was called for jury duty a few years back and i called them and told them i was taking a Beta Blocker and if i sit for few min i can't stay awake and they may have to wake me up during the trial . They exempted me from Jury Duty from that day on and I'm on the list of not being called again.

With just a couple of gang bangers thrown in for fun?

You'd have thought the case of Brian Nichols would have courthouses around the country a little less naive, but apparently not. "That'll never happen here..."

FYI - Sounds like everything you've done is to be applauded. Good job.

If you walk into his office without a CCW you have no case. If you walk in with a CCW you go to jail.

I didn't scold you. I expressed my opinion, that's what people do on Internet forums.

If trying to deflect the conversation from the topic at hand to the perceived slight you received from me and my alleged holierthanthouness makes you feel better, I am happy for you.

I started this thread with the assumption that you would make a better juror than the average bear and my frustration stemmed from that assumption. I realize now that I know nothing about you except for your single first post on this thread and my assumption was baseless. Carry on.

Excellent job sir..

Think for a second..

No bailiff or cop (or, it was supposed to say, "No." "just a bailiff and deputy......."
Judge not armed.
DA not armed.

Violent a-holes in the courtroom - do you REALLY think those punks don't have the means to cause serious damage/injury to others in the courtroom just because they've been 'swept'??


You done good, roundoak.. Proud of ya...

Well... we COULD export some of Saginaw's finest up to your neck of the woods.

AJ300MAG.....Gee, thanks for the offer, but I already see quite a few from Saginaw, and Flint, etc... Go up north for the weekend, have a few beers, beat the wife/girlfriend and go to jail. You ever get up around the Standish - Tawas area let me know. I'll buy lunch....and try to keep you out of trouble. Lol

Thank you sir! I'd appreciate that. Been wondering how your son is doing in the Navy. I get up to Oscoda a couple of times a year to shoot midrange matches. I'll let you know...

Back to the regularly scheduled program.

==================

If anything like northern Va, in 4 more years,your pension is going to be sweet,your honor.