The Zimmerman trial is already over

By John Lott
Published July 05, 2013
FoxNews.com

Prosecutors in the George Zimmerman second degree murder trial have pushed hard on two points as they seek to make their case against him: that the injuries to Zimmerman on the night Trayvon Martin died were �insignificant� and that he had studied Florida�s �Stand Your Ground� law in a college class in 2010.

To win conviction on second-degree murder, the prosecution has to show that the death was caused by a criminal act �demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life.�

That�s why the prosecutor keeps pushing the claim that Zimmerman profiled Martin because he was black. Meanwhile, the lesser charge of manslaughter generally is a crime that's been committed in the heat of passion, where there is no premeditation. The jury would have to believe Zimmerman lost his temper in shooting Martin.

This is a case that prosecutors should never have brought but they let politics influence their decision.

People can use force to protect themselves when they reasonably believe it is �necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to themselves.� On this score, the testimony of the Jacksonville medical examiner, Valerie Rao, that Zimmerman injuries were �insignificant� is largely irrelevant.

A broken nose, a head being slammed into cement, and punches to the face may not have left Zimmerman incapacitated. The important question is whether such an attack with a man on top of him would leave Zimmerman to �reasonably believe� that there was a threat of �imminent death or great bodily harm to himself.�

Much was also made of the class Zimmerman took class at Seminole State College taught by Professor Alexis Carter. The key supposedly was that Zimmerman really did understand Florida�s �Stand Your Ground� law. Prosecutor Richard Mantei told the court that Zimmerman's legal studies would help jurors understand his "state of mind" and "ambitions and frustrations" before the shooting.

Some pundits, such as Fox News� Bob Beckel, bought the claim: �I think that the prosecution got back in the case today for a very simple reason: this professor made it very clear that Zimmerman knew everything about the �Stand Your Ground� law and in that �Stand Your Ground,� according to the professor, there are reasons that you could use your gun if necessary but this was not an extreme enough case to do that. I think that the prosecution is back in it, back in it strong.�

One can debate about whether Zimmerman remembered the part of that lecture from the class. Nevertheless, but it is really beside the point because whether Zimmerman�s actions were legal has nothing to do with the �Stand Your Ground� law.

Prior to �Stand Your Ground,� citizens who wanted to defend themselves from a criminal had to retreat as far as possible and then announce to the criminal that they were going to shoot. The �Stand Your Ground� law simply says replaced the original requirement to retreat to a �reasonable person�s� standard, instead stating that lethal force is justified when a reasonable person would believe that a criminal intends to inflict serious bodily harm or death.

But Zimmerman�s defense has never raised the �Stand Your Ground� law for one simple reason: with Zimmerman on his back and Trayvon Martin holding him down, he had no option to retreat.

None of the testimony ever explained why the �Stand Your Ground� law was even relevant to Zimmerman�s actions. How Beckel comes away with the notion all this means that Zimmerman didn�t have �an extreme enough case� to defend himself is hardly obvious.

Prosecutors� problem is that they have to do more than eventually convince people that their version of events is �likely,� and they haven�t come close to doing that. Instead, they have to show that they are true beyond a �reasonable doubt.� To put it differently, to say something is �likely� just means that there is over a 50 percent chance it is true. To say something is beyond a reasonable doubt means that it is much closer to 100 percent.

The tragic thing about the case is how many people jumped to conclusions before they knew the facts. Many conservative commentators claimed early on that Zimmerman had acted improperly (Mona Charen, Rich Lowry, Heather Mac Donald, Robert VerBruggen, and Gregory Kane).

Comments by President Obama, Al Sharpton, and others surely stirred up the racial aspects of the case and appear to have generated many case across the country where blacks attacked whites to avenge Trayvon Martin (e.g.,Gainesville, Florida; Oak Park, Illinois; Mobile, Alabama; Toledo, Ohio; Grand Rapids, Michigan; and Norfolk, Virginia).

It is a case that prosecutors should never have brought, but they let politics influence their decision.

Next, it will be the defense�s turn to present their case. But, for all practical purposes, the Zimmerman trial is already over.



John R. Lott, Jr. is a FoxNews.com contributor. An economist and former chief economist at the United States Sentencing Commission, he is also a leading expert on guns. He is the author of several books, including "More Guns, Less Crime."

I certainly hope all this rings true and the jury upholds the law not their feelings.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/07/zimmerman-trial-review-how-we-got-here-and-where-were-going/

Get ready for riots all over the country and for blacks to be attacking whites over this...

it will happen regardless of the outcome of the trial... it will only be worse if Zimmerman is acquitted...

blacks and liberals have already made up their minds before this trial ever even started.... Martin was black and Zimmerman wasn't...

so the entire thing is based on skin color.. by those who would call those others, racist for not agreeing with their predetermined opinions...

if Zimmerman is acquitted, if he is not thrown into witness protection or just leave the country, I give him a 90 day chance before he is killed by some black or liberal ghetto person...

look how full the internet is of people claiming they will kill him... yet nothing is done at all about it..

Its a sham trial. Whitey owned slaves at one time so we need to drag the entire country in to the gutter and make it more like detroit. Sounds fair to me.

IIRC Bob, the local DA investigated this at the time it happened & said no charges would be brought...It wasn't until the race baiters got involved, TV doctored the 911 recordings (along with input from the POTUS) & Eric Holder sending a team to "investigate civil rights violations", that the state caved in & pushed for the prosecution of a person who did what any other armed citizen (black or white) would have done in similar circumstances... If Trayvon would have been white or Zimmerman black, none of this would be happening...It's a damn shame this country is allowing the liberals to get away with this schitt!!!

Before this trial, I had never, ever heard the term "white Hispanic". Does that mean Obama is a "white Black"?

Pretty much.

Grouseman, the Spanish Colonized South and Central America. Some of them even brought Spanish wives across the pond. As a result there are people south of the boarder whom speak Spanish, but ancestors are white.

Technically Obama is Mulatto and not black.

Bob, I'm still unfortunately betting on the manslaughter conviction... This continues to be a politically motivated witch hunt and with the president's weight behind it, not to mention the media, those women will vote with their hormones...

thanks Bob, I am waiting with crossed fingers for a directed motion for acquittal.

No way that will be granted Sam.

That's what the analysts say, but I don't understand why??? Seems like the prosecution has not even come close to meeting its burden of proof. Is it just because of the political environment?

if the assertions are correct, in the blog article, the Prosecution has committed a huge number of highly questionable actions, particularly with regards to the initial charge of 2nd Degree Murder.
Are none of these egregious violations of Zimmerman's rights actionable?

My opinion is,..this case was tried by the media as soon as it happened.

He wouldn't even be on trial if a person's rights were still recognized in America.

You and Denton are spot on with your concerns but this Judge doesn't have what it takes to grant it. I'll be ecstatic if she does and she sure has a basis for doing so but, I don't think the politics will enable to buck the state. Her actions thus far seem to corroborate such.

Anyways, if she does grant the motion, she will have done the right thing.

According to the facts and police opinions he should never have been brought to trial, point is facts are being trumped by emotion to even bring him to trial.

With an all woman jury, they will have a hard time (especially the moms) getting past the notion that the adult brought a gun to a fight with a boy and shot the boy.

From the link you provided it seems the PA has some serious ethical issues in this case regarding discovery, and that the Judge is holding off any action on them pending the outcome of this trial.Like if GZ is found not guilty, "No harm, no foul" is the ruling.

Sounds like the PA's future in that regard is linked to Zimmerman's future. If GZ walks, so does the PA.

Won't be granted because IMO the judge, who has been completely biased to the point where there's about 80 million things available for overturn on appeal, has been promised something "if this goes the right way".

Judge was practically objecting FOR the State at points during this thing.

The defense and prosecution's arguments for and against acquittal are extremely interesting. It's a partial summary of the trial so far.

The defense is being given the gift of knowing what they'll have to overcome in order to win ... sort of. By "sort of" I mean the jury won't have the benefit of hearing these arguments. They'll still make their decision based on what comes out in the trial.

I'm through I betting on a sure thing. Thought OJ was going away, (the first time) thought Casey Anthony was a goner. Thought Romney would be sitting in the WH, as no one would vote for that fool again.

The prosecutor's arguments are pure histrionics, not supported by evidence and in no way have overcome the arguments of O'Mara. The court should strike the 2nd degree charge and instruct the jury, as such.

I'm wrapping my home in plastic tarps and duct tape.

THIS!!!

Every person involved in this prosecution should spend the rest of their lives in jail for treasonous violations of their oath to uphold the Constitution.

This is the grounds the defendant won in the trial I was involved in a couple years ago. The prosecution could not prove there was any criminal intent and that it was anything except self defense. I think this one will go the same way and Z will walk.

Lee, great minds run in the same track..... so do ours.

The only Law that has been broken in the Zimmerman case was charging him from the beginning

There is NO WAY that judge is ever not going to give this to the jury with as much help as she can give the State.

She doesn't want to be a target of the riots after.

Hope yer right Counselor, I been thinkin' all along he's gonna walk, write a book, hit the talk show circuit and retire a wealthy young man.

And congrats to him for riding the world of at least one POFDS.

Gunner

I hope they give him back his 9 mm after he is acquitted

Me too, dat popper be famous.

Gunner

If I were Zimmerman, after he is acquitted, I'd put that gun up for auction with the proceeds going to the NRA.

True dat........point blank got'er done!!

Wonder what the ME found; bullet penetration and deformation??

A "white black" what?

Helluva idea WCC, da coloreds wouldn't like it.

Gunner

Wish I knew what bullet it was.

Gunner

[bleep]

Gunner

I'm still wanting to know what load Zimmerman was using in the 9mm that night

Did it overpenetrate?

Unfortunately, it did not. If it had it would be pretty clear from which angle the shot was fired.

Hispanic technically just means someone is from a Spanish speaking country whatever their original ethnic background. I've had a lot of clients from Mexico included red haired ones named o'hara and Viking looking ones with German names. They come in all sizes shapes and colors down there just like they do in the us

Winchester Hollow points.

The recovered bullet(s)

It seems to me that the judge might make a better traffic court judge.

I have watched most all of this thing and she sure has had a hard on for the defense.

Now Z's team will have to put all of their plans into action.

Shouldn't have been charged in the first place.

Wonder when the judge comes up for re-election again?

Can the defense put those (former) officials who didn't think there was anything to charge Zimmerman with on the witness stand?

Maybe Z could get an endorsement deal with Winchester.

One of 'em is the lead off witness Monday, according to Fox.

They can call them to give testimony or evidence as to facts, but not to opine on whether the case should have been brought.

There was something reported about the State's handpicked attorneys being under investigation for withholding some stuff during the discovery process. The trial judge is going to pursue it AFTER a verdict in this trial.

This may be a strategy by the defense to get that in front of the jury via the original lawyers.

Neither will the jury. Zimmerman stands a significant chance of being convicted.

The legal system offers no guaranty to exonerate the innocent or condemned the guilty because the legal system is driven by societal and cultural opinion, bias, and whims of humanity. The same controlling factor that's generated every mess in history and continues to do so.

A mighty astute observation. Especially taking into account the time of day it was posted.

[quote=plainsman456]It seems to me that the judge might make a better traffic court judge.

I have watched most all of this thing and she sure has had a hard on for the defense.

Now Z's team will have to put all of their plans into action.

Shouldn't have been charged in the first place.

Wonder when the judge comes up for re-election again?[/quote





In Missouri most judges were unsuccessful as attorneys, ran for office unopposed, appointed or were successful as a politician. Suspect that is also true in the rest of the country. GW

That is simply not correct. You may get cases that slide through the cracks, but with this much scrutiny, there is no way it would not be appealed all the way to the Supremes. Z walks totally or it was a setup from the word "Go" and the whole thing was about much, much more than Travon Martin as it speaks to the right of an individual to defend himself.

The Prosecution has already raised Reasonable Doubt themselves. I don't see where the Defense even needs to bring witnesses, let alone allow Z to testify. The case should never have been brought and should be dismissed post-haste. It's already a mockery of Justice.

+1

As many have said, the case is just preposterous. Consider the following points the prosecution has made lately:

When Martin was shot it probably really, really hurt for a while.

Zimmerman was so reckless that he had a gun that could be fired simply by pulling the trigger.

Martin's DNA and fingerprints were not on Zimmerman's gun.

The prosecution is grasping at straws, and hoping to play on general ignorance of how firearms work.

Monday, the defense gets to start putting on their case.

Politics will outweigh the facts..............sadly.

As bad as the judge is, I wouldn't bet against a directed verdict of some sort.

MM

Yeah, I noticed that, too. My gosh, not only was his handgun "fully loaded," but had one in the chamber like a murderer would. Not only that, the thing had no manual safety, which proves he wanted to be able to kill people without taking a moment to think about it. Scandalous!

Hey, OJ walked.

And there you have it, comparing OJ to this trial.....

whole damn thing is a raciest driven sham.

It's clearly a racist and politically driven prosecution but, in reality,it's somewhat more involving of folks incapable of focus and being more prone to a middle school perception of life and what one perceives it to be, depending upon how you're moving ahead in life.

Don't forget Clinton getting re-elected.

That was the day I realized I am not like a LOT of Americans.

Bingo.

This trial would never have happened if both parties involved were either black or white. They are trying to make it look like some innocent black child got wracked by a violent Hispanic guy. The judge is so ignorant and the trial a sham. She is refusing to allow Travons history of fighting, burglary, chronic Mariana use, school suspensions, unstable family life, and current intoxication during the altercation to be allowed into evidence. The prosecution is allowed to paint him as a choir boy so that Obama thinks he's his long lost son. There simply is no reasonable way a guy could have cuts on he back of his head and a broken nose unless he was attacked. Martin has no injuries except a bullet hole. This trial is an absolute sham of justice and the judge has a very questionable past. Our legal system needs an overhaul to separate it from the political influences that forced these false charges.

"Hispanic" was a term made up by liberals to separate them from "white" or "black", creating another block of minority victims. As the majority are more white, than black, this also caused a huge percentage of them to be alienated (no pun intended) by white America. I doubt that the left was smart enough to do this on purpose, but they damn sure ran with it and it's working. Sorry for the hijack.

morning Pat

Hi Roger! Goin' fishin?

i wish got to lay some carpet today. but plan on going next weekend, my buddy just picked up a 30ft world cat.

Yep. Mexicans are still "Caucasian". Just like me.

African-Americans are Negros.. not just like me.

THAT didn't suit the purposes of the radical left.

But it still suits me and all the Mexicans I know.

I know and work with a lot of Mexicans. I have never heard a single one of them call their self white. They are brown!

And they have very little use for one of their kind trying to pass for white.

They are no more Caucasian than the Indians from which they are primarily descended.

Mexico - the world's largest Indian reservation.

My post in its entirety:

Yep. Mexicans are still "Caucasian". Just like me.

African-Americans are Negros.. not just like me.

THAT didn't suit the purposes of the radical left.

But it still suits me and all the Mexicans I know.

You see any reference made to Mexicans being "white" ?

Sorry, but your post just flat-out doesn't make sense AS A RESPONSE TO MINE.

Isaac: I can not tell how you feel about the outcome of this trial by what your OP says - I am of the opinion that the trial should have ended at the end of the prosecutions case with the judge throwing the case out of court as per the defense's very valid requests!
Thats how I feel - but, P/C has overwhelmed this investigation and the subsequent prosecution and trial - over-riding common sense and normal policies and procedures.
I fear that young Mr. Zimmerman is going to be found guilty of something!
I have seen "stronger" cases dismissed by judges on numerous occassions.
My advice to you and ALL who read this: DON'T commit a P/C crime in the United States of America in this day and age.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

=================

Hooey. There's no more evidence for a finding of manslaughter than there is for 2nd degree murder. The defense of self defense plays all the way down the line gents,even for simple assault.

Quit getting yourselves side-tracked by the irrelevant minutiae the state might have you believing is relevant.

This judge is a joke and her day is going to come. In the meanwhile, don't let her cowardice impact upon your evaluation of the evidence or the instructions this jury will receive.

==========

I've stated my belief as to the outcome several times;even have dinero on it with my latin super macho amigo, Jorge. You read the thread title,right? You also read Lott's analysis, right?

There are some of you selling this jury short because they're all female. Bad mistake but I understand how the machismo works in the minds of some players.

Zimm walks.

Closing arguments Wed/Thursday with the jury being out less than one full business day to render the obvious verdict.

Can the defense do something to insure that jurors know all the applicable laws to reach a decision that's in compliance with applicable "standards" versus relying only on the judge to provide instructions to the jury?

The Judge doesn't simply make up instructions. She has no choice as to model jury instructions and the only time her input will be needed is when either side attempts to argue for a modification of a jury instruction.

Google "Model Jury Instructions In Regards The Zimmerman Trial" and go from there.

Thank you for your soothing effects in a turbulent time.

Your insight is appreciated!

But this case is a glimpse into a much deeper matter.
A glimpse of the beast secular-humanist-progressivism is creating.

There is no doubt the evadance of mob-mentally at work here, and how the elite puppetmasters will use it!

=====

And then I'll deal with Jorge. Montana Man too if he didn't puss out.

Zimmerman can't be found any other way but innocent based on the evidence. End of story case closed

=============

Outside the world of a sequestered jury, perhaps. 2 jurors laughed at that ME's testimony last week. He will be on his way out of town when some talented,credible experts give testimony this week. These jurors are taking their job seriously because they know what awaits them out in the free market.

A hung jury,which is the bare minimum here, works for the defense. No way the state of Florida tries this nonsense again.

I'm white and married to a "mexican girl" born in th US and college educated with an american first name.

I employ (legal) mexicans and obviously have inlaws of mexican heritage.

While they have some of the mexican culture still practiced in their family, they don't give a crap about skin color or nationality and consider themselves more white than hispanic. They judge people on their charactor, and frankly don't give a [bleep] about "a mexican passing themselves off as white".

As for illegal mexicans.... Your comments probably ring true.

Have a nice day.

Thanks. That's interesting reading material.

From a layman's perspective it's peculiar that instructions aren't given at the beginning of the trial.

If the jurors know what to look for, or what's specifically applicable, it would easier to weigh the evidence.

The reason for my above comments is in this particular trial there are laws that make it an unusual case. Generally speaking, a murder trial does not have the nuances that this trial does. Shoot somebody, you're guilty, you go to jail.

Is easy for us here at fire to understand the implications of self-defense and more importantly the stand your ground law because we've discussing it for over a year. Someone that's unaware of these laws will have a very different perspective. For instance, the idea of contributory negligence (GZ was in the wrong for following TM) and being unaware the right to defend yourself even if you were the initial aggressor.

Watching the trial unfold and having misconceptions about the specific laws that are applicable to this trial would affect the thought process of determining guilt or innocence.

I have no doubts that the jurors are unaware of all the laws. It might come as slight shock when they realize what they thought they would be judging guilt or innocence on is now in question because of how the laws are written.

I have no idea how this will influence the outcome ... if at all.

I've watched most of the trial but who is "ME"?

Medical Examiner

Right! That guy was an idiot.

Sorry, I should have used proper descriptives.

Monday and Tuesday are going to be embarrassing for this prosecution team. Watch it if you can.

Any of you guys try Varget with 80 Amax in a 223AI?

Most have understood "self defense" from the beginning of time. The prosecution is now putting all their marbles into the over-reaction basket. The witnesses the next two days will destroy the theory.

So will the jury instructions. This Judge's days are numbered if she doesn't toss 2nd degree murder at the conclusion of the evidence.

Northern Va prosecutors make this Florida team look like a bunch of moot court participants. It's truly shameful. And, in Virginia, we don't get the benefit of depositions. In fact, defense discovery in our state is virtually non-existant.

But, in noerthern Va, the Judge would have likely granted the striking of the 2nd degree murder charge.

Will the defense be able to bring up prior expert testimony and then have their experts offer an opinion on whether or not the previous experts were incorrect?

I know they can offer a different opinion but can they essentially say "That guy was an idiot. He didn't know WTF he was talking about and here's why".

I plan on watching it as much as possible and if I can't I look at http://legalinsurrection.com/ at night to see what I missed. I'm curious if the defense is going to get to call the Martin's lying racist attorney Benjamin Crump to testify. I understand that the transcript of his interview with "Dee Dee" that he gave to the defense wasn't factual and is incomplete.

Will the defense be able to bring up prior expert testimony and then have their experts offer an opinion on whether or not the previous experts were incorrect?
============

Bank on it. It will be pleasurable viewing, I assure you.

I'm curious if the defense is going to get to call the Martin's lying racist attorney Benjamin Crump to testify.
=============

Crump is partly why Judge Nelson is PMSing. The 5th circuit over-turned her ruling that the defense team couldn't call him. 5th circuit over-turned her and ruled the defense team can depose Crump and use his testimony at trial.

Good! I's like to see Mr. Crump on the stand. I hope this judge is removed for her blatant bias for the prosecution. She isn't just fat and ugly she has a smart ass attitude with the defense. I think she despises the defense attorneys because they're way more intelligent than she is. The prosecution attorneys are just theatrical clowns (and not very good ones).

I simply think her hands are tied while she attempts to protect her job. Jurors are the last bastion of protection when it comes to the state versus the "Everyman".

Never shirk your duty as a juror. Never. Jurors rule the dynamic, not judges and lawyers.

Ain't that the truth! It dismays me whenever I hear people disparage and/or shirk jury duty. A strong individual on a jury can strongly influence the others, the sheeple types.

Not a legal type, but I've done the jury gig more than once, and look forward to the next opportunity, especially of I could help insure that sensationalism and racism like seen in this case doesn't hornswaggle the easily led.

Prexactly Counselor and the jury DOES worry me.

Bob, I was a juror on two high profile murder cases down in Miami before the Navy and I wasn't impressed with their abilities even though they were pretty much open and shut cases. And the OJ and Kaylee Anderson trials also worry me. I sure do HOPE you are right my friend.

Should have never let cameras in the courtroom . Biggest mistake ever made by the courts. Nothing but armchair asshat attorneys spewing their crap opinions and networks making money off something that all sides wished would have never happened.

[bleep] pathetic......

Definition of CAUCASIAN
1
: of or relating to the Caucasus or its inhabitants
2
: of, constituting, or characteristic of a race of humankind native to Europe, North Africa, and southwest Asia and classified according to physical features �used especially in referring to persons of European descent having usually light skin pigmentation

Seems like white and Caucasian are considered pretty synonymous in an American's understanding. And people's of Native American ancestry are not included in the definition.



I hope you did not infer any prejudice upon my part for persons of Mexican ancestry, because I am not wired that way. I judge every man upon his character.

Over fifty percent of the workforce at my place of employment is of Mexican descent. The town the factory is located in (Eastern Oregon) is about fifty percent Hispanic. The men I work with are second, third, and fourth generation Americans. But they strongly identify as Hispanics and Mexicans. The entire local Hispanic community congregates together for weddings, funerals, and Spanish mass. It is the rare exception who does not speak Spanish as well as his Grandparents did.

It is a small community of about 3000. Many of the Hispanic families had twelve to fifteen children, and many of those children are now grandparents, so all of the largest families have intermarried multiple times. It is a very tight knit community.

When they say, and they do say it: "Mess with one bean, mess with the whole burrito!" They mean it.

I have worked closely with these men since 1976 and know them well. I have a great deal of respect for the majority of them, but like any race there are a few bad apples.

My previous post does hold true for the vast majority of those of Mexican descent in this locale.

The major point being, had Zimmerman been named Morales, or Castro, or Gonzales, the MSM and liberal leaders would have immediately recognized his identity as a minority and the case would have never been pushed politically to the point where the prosecutor felt he had to bring charges.