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I was just wondering what you version was your favorite. Personally my favorite for reading is the KJV, I just love the language and it was my first bible. Then in college I started using an RSV and have been using that to do bible readings and preach from, but lately I have been leaning toward a NKJV.

What do you guys read the most?
I like the Dake in the King James. I don't always agree with Finis on doctrine but the margins hold great cross references and points of interest that can be very illuminating.
When I was a kid, I had an RSV while all of my classmates had the KJV. They made it very clear to me that theirs was the official Word of God, while mine was strictly second-class.
KJV and NIV.
44magtrapper,

It is difficult for me to decide between the New American Standard and the New King Jame Version. I listen to the NKJV in the pickup and car and read from the NASB. Most of my essays use quotes from the NASB.
I've got several versions, but the one I enjoy reading the most is the KJV. But that's probably due to that Version being the one the Church I grew up attending always used.
RSV.
It's okay. I understand the difference between a young woman and a virgin. Honest! The devil explained it to me one night over drinks.
1599 Geneva and NIV.
KJV....
I like the KJV quite a bit, especially if I'm reading some of the more poetic books such as Psalms. My study Bible is an ESV and I really like it.
I prefer the KJV or the NKJVl
NKJV
King James
King James version but that is no doubt because that is the one I started using when I was saved. The next in line would be the New American standard. I often consult several versions when trying to find the answer to a question.
NIV and NKJV.
Originally Posted by Miss Lynn
KJV....



Me too.
King James all the way for this guy.



Travis
ESV
My favorite is the NLT. I also have the large print bible, for obvious reasons. Lately, I've taken to my iPad and carry it to church. I have my choice of hundreds of translations of the Bible and can zoom in on any text I am reading. It's a great app and free, I believe.
Another vote for the ESV.
NIV, and KJV

I like the NKJV,ESV,KJV, and NASB not necessarily in that order.
I like the KJV. I have the Life Application Study Bible in it.
But I also like the NIV 1984 version, and the ESV. I have e-Sword on my PC (free download) and Quick Verse 10 that I just bought (as suggested brother Howell). I enjoy using parallel verse when I read the online Bible sites. Also really like the Chronological Bible in KJV. On my 2nd reading of it.

Qtip
Soli Deo Gloria!
I like the older NIV. When I studied Greek, I found the language, grammar and spirit of the NIV most closely matched the language of the original Greek manuscripts. Unfortunately, the NIV post 1990 version, was made genderless. So, I've switched over to the New King James. Here is one example.

NIV 1984
"As marauders lie in ambush for a man, so do bands of priests; they murder on the road to Shechem, committing shameful crimes." Hosea 6:9

NIV current
"As marauders lie in ambush for a victim, so do bands of priests; they murder on the road to Shechem, carrying out their wicked schemes." Hosea 6:9

The "old" King James of 1611 used the word "Easter" in Acts 12:4. The New King James corrected this error and matches the Greek manuscripts using the correct word "Passover". So, I vote NKJV.
KJV
I have many Bibles but the one I prefer and use the most is the Catholic Bible because one, I was a Catholic many moons ago and two because it includes the Apocrypha.
I believe an even more succinct question would be, from which Greek text of the New Testament was your English Bible translated? If it wan't Textus Receptus does it matter?
NKJV is my favorite. Large print. grin
Mostly the NL life application study bible, but I do have KJ, NKJ, AS, NAS, NIV and even a Christian Holstein? because it was the only one available in camo at the time.
Originally Posted by Mathsr
NKJV is my favorite. Large print. grin


Thank GOD for large print Bibles!!
There is also a YouVersion Bible app that is available for free on your smartphone. It has many different versions and languages available, and you can even listen as it's read to you...pretty convenient while driving, using a treadmill or elliptical, or if you're too tired to read but still want to listen, etc.. It's put out by LifeChurch which is headquartered in Edmond, Oklahoma.
NAS, large print, no notes or commentaries. I must have a dozen different Bibles but in this time of my life I just want the Word and nothing else to distract me.

[Linked Image]
I've always really liked that picture!
Originally Posted by RickyD
I like the Dake in the King James. I don't always agree with Finis on doctrine but the margins hold great cross references and points of interest that can be very illuminating.
I also often use the computer software called PC Study Bible. I use version 5 from 2008.It has about 45 versions of the Bible. Some of which are in Latin, Greek or Hebrew. I don't use those much. grin I do like helps like interlinear's and the Treasury of Scripture Knowledge that gives other references similar to the context of a verse under study. It has much more, some of which I use at times, but mostly my study is of the Word itself and not that of another man's.
Thanks Ricky. I does seem to have an impact.
KJV and the Amplified Bible.
When I read, I like to compare versions. I feel that this gives me a fuller understanding.

I tend to enjoy NKJV, NASV, NIV, and the Amplified.

Not a study Bible by any means as it's a paraphrased version, but I really enjoy reading The Message probably more than then all though.

I just enjoy technical things written in vernacular.
ESV and NLT are the ones I usually find myself reading.
NABV New Age Bible Version(s). Just kidding. But I did read a book called that.
Originally Posted by Scott F
Thanks Ricky. I does seem to have an impact.

laugh

[Linked Image]
laugh laugh laugh
I primarily read the KJV but enjoy the Amplified, The Message and a wonderful Wuest Expanded translation.
GNT UBS3, NASB updated, ESV, NIV 1984
KJV, NAS, NIV, LB
The Watchtower...
Originally Posted by MojoHand
The Watchtower...


That would be the New World Translation. Sadly for the Watchtower Society, the "translators" remain unknown.
Originally Posted by Scott F
NAS, large print, no notes or commentaries. I must have a dozen different Bibles but in this time of my life I just want the Word and nothing else to distract me.

[Linked Image]


Makes a man want to buy a Bible and a Colt SAA in .45 Colt. smile
Yes it does. I already have the Bible but sadly I don't have a single action 45 LC. I have wanted one since I shot one for the first time back in 1973. I still want one but I doubt it will happen.

The one in the picture is an Italian made knockoff of a Colt that belongs to a Nephew. I had it for a while on loan but for some crazy reason he wanted it back.

Were I to order one it would have a five inch barrel and be carried on my trips to the woods.
dang nephews. grin grin
I mostly read the NIV but use others also.
Originally Posted by Scott F
Yes it does. I already have the Bible but sadly I don't have a single action 45 LC. I have wanted one since I shot one for the first time back in 1973. I still want one but I doubt it will happen.

The one in the picture is an Italian made knockoff of a Colt that belongs to a Nephew. I had it for a while on loan but for some crazy reason he wanted it back.

Were I to order one it would have a five inch barrel and be carried on my trips to the woods.


A genuine Colt SAA isn't as expensive as the Wilson I just ordered. smile
Since I don't read any language other than English I'm limited to an English language version. If you read the 23rd Psalm in the KJV and then read in any other version and tell me which is the most moving. That should be enough proof as to which is the best English version no matter WHAT version you were taught in.
NIV
King James unless I want a good chuckle, then anything else is fine. wink

The New American Bible, Catholic Edition, with ALL of the books of the Bible in it ... including the ones that Jesus taught from.

It is excellent

KD
Does anyone know of a serious history of the bible that explains if there actually was an original first edition? I have never heard of one -- just "earliest known". The countless translations and retranslations since have made a nice little bundle for unemployed/unemployable scholars and printing houses and cult-creaters but w/o an original....it's all pointless to me.

1B
Originally Posted by 44magtrapper
I was just wondering what you version was your favorite. Personally my favorite for reading is the KJV, I just love the language and it was my first bible. Then in college I started using an RSV and have been using that to do bible readings and preach from, but lately I have been leaning toward a NKJV.

What do you guys read the most?
Like you, my first Bible was a King James, and that's what I choose to read for the most part. I also love the Old English prose of the King James.
Originally Posted by antlers
KJV and NIV.
Yeah, the NIV for cross-referencing, when necessary.
I read the NKJV the most but like the living bible and others too. I want a Geneva bible, its the bible we brought to this country.
Here's the Geneva Bible and a bunch more. All for free.

http://www.biblegateway.com/

How many Bible variations are there?



I just watched a TV show about all that was left out.
There is a society of translators who can publish their own translation and many collect translations of their friends. The number of translations out there would be hard to count.
I enjoy the MKJV but my preferred translation is the NET
Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
How many Bible variations are there?



I just watched a TV show about all that was left out.
How many translations into English do you suppose are out there of Aristotle, Plato, Homer, etc.? Why does it surprise you that there are many translations into English (not to mention every other major language) of the Bible, and that people have personal favorites? Do you see that as discrediting of the Bible? Does it discredit Aristotle, Plato, Homer, etc., that one can find various different translations into English of their works?
Originally Posted by 1B
Does anyone know of a serious history of the bible that explains if there actually was an original first edition? I have never heard of one -- just "earliest known". The countless translations and retranslations since have made a nice little bundle for unemployed/unemployable scholars and printing houses and cult-creaters but w/o an original....it's all pointless to me.

1B


The Bible is just a collection of books that Christian leaders, in conference, put together for the faithful. These leaders had certain criteria they used to determine which holy books would be canon law.

All the books of the Bible are copies of earlier works because there is no real way to find the "original" and we probably would not know the "original" even if we found it.

This is how the game went. Some religious person or leader would dictate to a scribe who would write down by hand what that person said. Then the writings would be sent to to another church or group who would precede to copy the "original" and then pass on the "original" to another group who in turn would copy the "original". This went on forever.

It's not likely that the "originals" could ever be found all that can be found is the "earliest" copies.
NIV (1984)
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
How many Bible variations are there?



I just watched a TV show about all that was left out.
How many translations into English do you suppose are out there of Aristotle, Plato, Homer, etc.? Why does it surprise you that there are many translations into English (not to mention every other major language) of the Bible, and that people have personal favorites? Do you see that as discrediting of the Bible? Does it discredit Aristotle, Plato, Homer, etc., that one can find various different translations into English of their works?


I take all these earlier works with a grain of salt. I don't try to believe that laws should be passed and people jailed or burned at the stake because of them. With the Bible, people take that as the written Word of God and create all kinds of mayhem because of Bible. If people took the Bible with a grain of salt than who cares but when a religion is built upon the "reveled Word of God" in a collection of books written by a group of anonymous dead guys well you can see the problem some of us would have with that.
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by 1B
Does anyone know of a serious history of the bible that explains if there actually was an original first edition? I have never heard of one -- just "earliest known". The countless translations and retranslations since have made a nice little bundle for unemployed/unemployable scholars and printing houses and cult-creaters but w/o an original....it's all pointless to me.

1B


The Bible is just a collection of books that Christian leaders, in conference, put together for the faithful. These leaders had certain criteria they used to determine which holy books would be canon law.

All the books of the Bible are copies of earlier works because there is no real way to find the "original" and we probably would not know the "original" even if we found it.

This is how the game went. Some religious person or leader would dictate to a scribe who would write down by hand what that person said. Then the writings would be sent to to another church or group who would precede to copy the "original" and then pass on the "original" to another group who in turn would copy the "original". This went on forever.

It's not likely that the "originals" could ever be found all that can be found is the "earliest" copies.
Derby, the Christian faith long predates the New Testament, i.e., there was not really any New Testament canon, or even most of the books we associate with it, when the Christian faith was spreading and flourishing. Those New Testament books were handwritten by their authors at various times as aids in their teaching of the faith to the early Church, and aids only. The faith was the important thing, which they mainly taught orally.

At a certain time after the death of all the apostles, different churches preserved all those letters and written gospels, and many had been hand copied so other churches could possess copies for instruction purposes, and cherished them, but many were floating around that were not actually written by the apostles, and controversy arose.

The Church then organized a counsel to settle the disputes as to which were true and which false, and this involved investigation and tracing back to sources, etc..

They then established what's known as the New Testament canon, what we call the books of the New Testament. But the faith was first taught without any of them, for the most part and, until Gutenberg's printing press, the Bible was generally only available in Churches and to the very wealthy. It wasn't central to the Christian faith till after most folks could get their hands on their own personal editions of it, many centuries after the Gospel had been preached and embraced by huge swaths of humanity, most unable to ever read from a Bible their entire lives.

Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
How many Bible variations are there?



I just watched a TV show about all that was left out.
How many translations into English do you suppose are out there of Aristotle, Plato, Homer, etc.? Why does it surprise you that there are many translations into English (not to mention every other major language) of the Bible, and that people have personal favorites? Do you see that as discrediting of the Bible? Does it discredit Aristotle, Plato, Homer, etc., that one can find various different translations into English of their works?




The works of Aristotle, Plato, Homer, etc. do not claim to be the infallible Word of God.

I�m still waiting for answers to the questions I posted before about the Bible stating that the earth is a flat fixed world with definite corners, under a dome, that is sitting in the very center of the universe.
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by 1B
Does anyone know of a serious history of the bible that explains if there actually was an original first edition? I have never heard of one -- just "earliest known". The countless translations and retranslations since have made a nice little bundle for unemployed/unemployable scholars and printing houses and cult-creaters but w/o an original....it's all pointless to me.

1B


The Bible is just a collection of books that Christian leaders, in conference, put together for the faithful. These leaders had certain criteria they used to determine which holy books would be canon law.

All the books of the Bible are copies of earlier works because there is no real way to find the "original" and we probably would not know the "original" even if we found it.

This is how the game went. Some religious person or leader would dictate to a scribe who would write down by hand what that person said. Then the writings would be sent to to another church or group who would precede to copy the "original" and then pass on the "original" to another group who in turn would copy the "original". This went on forever.

It's not likely that the "originals" could ever be found all that can be found is the "earliest" copies.
Derby, the Christian faith long predates the New Testament, i.e., there was not really any New Testament canon, or even most of the books we associate with it, when the Christian faith was spreading and flourishing. Those New Testament books were handwritten by their authors at various times as aids in their teaching of the faith to the early Church, and aids only. The faith was the important thing, which they mainly taught orally.

At a certain time after the death of all the apostles, different churches preserved all those letters and written gospels, and many had been hand copied so other churches could possess copies for instruction purposes, and cherished them, but many were floating around that were not actually written by the apostles, and controversy arose.

The Church then organized a counsel to settle the disputes as to which were true and which false, and this involved investigation and tracing back to sources, etc..

They then established what's known as the New Testament canon, what we call the books of the New Testament. But the faith was first taught without any of them, for the most part and, until Gutenberg's printing press, the Bible was generally only available in Churches and to the very wealthy. It wasn't central to the Christian faith till after most folks could get their hands on their own personal editions of it, many centuries after the Gospel had been preached and embraced by huge swaths of humanity, most unable to ever read from a Bible their entire lives.



That's true I was just trying to give the short answer.

The only thing I would disagree is the authors. It was quite common to use pseudonyms and credit others with the writings so we do not know who really wrote the original works. This is of course, a controversy that will never end. Hence, it is the reason I'm a Deist and can never be a Christian although I may at times have much in common with Christians.
God tell us through the Bible that the earth is immovable and is the center of the universe.
Sometimes he or she made the sun stop moving around the earth.
That is because those stars and the sun and moon have different laws of physics than here on earth. Everybody knows that.

Psalms 19:4-6
yet their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun, which comes forth like a bridegroom leaving his chamber, and like a strong man runs his course with joy. Its rising is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the end of them; and there is nothing hid from its heat.
Ecclesiastes 1:5
The sun rises and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises.
Joshua 10:12-13
Then spoke Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord gave the Amorites over to the men of Israel; and he said in the sight of Israel, "Sun, stand thou still at Gibeon, and thou Moon in the valley of Aijalon." And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stayed in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.
Habakkuk 3:11
The sun and moon stood still in their habitation at the light of thine arrows as they sped, at the flash of thy glittering spear.

Use of the phrase �solar system� should therefore be avoided in favor of the more accurate �geosystem.� "
Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
God tell us through the Bible that the earth is immovable and is the center of the universe.
Sometimes he or she made the sun stop moving around the earth.
That is because those stars and the sun and moon have different laws of physics than here on earth. Everybody knows that.

Psalms 19:4-6
yet their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun, which comes forth like a bridegroom leaving his chamber, and like a strong man runs his course with joy. Its rising is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the end of them; and there is nothing hid from its heat.
Ecclesiastes 1:5
The sun rises and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises.
Joshua 10:12-13
Then spoke Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord gave the Amorites over to the men of Israel; and he said in the sight of Israel, "Sun, stand thou still at Gibeon, and thou Moon in the valley of Aijalon." And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stayed in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.
Habakkuk 3:11
The sun and moon stood still in their habitation at the light of thine arrows as they sped, at the flash of thy glittering spear.

Use of the phrase �solar system� should therefore be avoided in favor of the more accurate �geosystem.� "
What silly objections. The author was speaking of events as they appeared to people who experienced them. It wasn't intended as a scientific text.
John 3:16,is probably my favorite ,among others
KJV followed by NIV
Wait a minute!

The consensus so far is that there is no original test.

If so, how can anyone quote whatever version they have at hand to 'prove' the validity of their point? Anyone can select any version in English they like. And do battle theoretically at least...with those choosing another text or interpretation.

Then, there are also the non-English versions -- some closer to the 'original' -- ad infinitum to consider.

Not that it matters, religious fervor is a self licking ice cream cone. It will find its own outlet.

1B

I'm a firm believer in literal equivalence so I much prefer the NASB or ESV.
Originally Posted by 1B
Wait a minute!

The consensus so far is that there is no original test.

If so, how can anyone quote whatever version they have at hand to 'prove' the validity of their point? Anyone can select any version in English they like. And do battle theoretically at least...with those choosing another text or interpretation.

Then, there are also the non-English versions -- some closer to the 'original' -- ad infinitum to consider.

Not that it matters, religious fervor is a self licking ice cream cone. It will find its own outlet.

1B

The Catholics have one official translation. All references for doctrinal purposes are made to it. It's called the Vulgate translation, and it's in Latin.

For Catholics, the source in this world of religious truth is the Church Christ established on the earth, which they assert is what is now known as the Roman Catholic Church.

Notice I didn't say that "the source of religious truth is the Bible." It can't be, because there was a Church on earth with authority from Christ to spread the Gospel long before the books we know as The New Testament were even penned, let alone put into a single canonical collection, and still more centuries till access to it for all Christians was even a possibility, since each complete volume of the New Testament would cost someone the modern-day equivalent of many thousands of dollars.

This is why the Roman Catholic Church claimed the authority to generate an official translation from which all doctrinally important New Testament scripture references are to be made. That's because only they would have the authority to make sure that the translation contains no doctrinal errors.

The Catholic position is very different from that of the Protestant denominations on this question, and seems more internally logical to me, considering what I said above about the period of time in which there literally was no New Testament, yet there was at that time a saving Gospel to be taught, and a Church appointed to teach it.
NASB, NKJV, Amplified, and Wuest are my favorites.
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
God tell us through the Bible that the earth is immovable and is the center of the universe.
Sometimes he or she made the sun stop moving around the earth.
That is because those stars and the sun and moon have different laws of physics than here on earth. Everybody knows that.

Psalms 19:4-6
yet their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun, which comes forth like a bridegroom leaving his chamber, and like a strong man runs his course with joy. Its rising is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the end of them; and there is nothing hid from its heat.
Ecclesiastes 1:5
The sun rises and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises.
Joshua 10:12-13
Then spoke Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord gave the Amorites over to the men of Israel; and he said in the sight of Israel, "Sun, stand thou still at Gibeon, and thou Moon in the valley of Aijalon." And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stayed in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.
Habakkuk 3:11
The sun and moon stood still in their habitation at the light of thine arrows as they sped, at the flash of thy glittering spear.

Use of the phrase �solar system� should therefore be avoided in favor of the more accurate �geosystem.� "
What silly objections. The author was speaking of events as they appeared to people who experienced them. It wasn't intended as a scientific text.





So tell me how those people experienced an event when the Sun appeared to stand still all day?

These are a few of the Bible quotes I used in the �Evolution Proof?� thread asking for answers from those who swear the Bible is the infallible Word of God.


Now you tell me that the authors got it wrong? BLASPHEMY!!
Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
So tell me how those people experienced an event when the Sun appeared to stand still all day?
It was a miracle.
Quote
Now you tell me that the authors got it wrong? BLASPHEMY!!
When people aren't writing a scientific text, they communicate as normal people do. Don't you speak of the sun rising over there and setting over on the other side of the horizon? By your standard, then, you lie regularly, unless you say something like, "the earth's horizon over there revolves to intersect with the position of the sun from our viewpoint allowing for the sun's rays to reach us in the morning, and in the evening the earth's horizon over there in the opposite direction revolves over to once again meet up with our line of view to the sun just before blocking out our view of it." Do you ordinarily speak like this, or do you just say something like, "the sun rises over there and sets over there?" If more like the latter, that makes you, by your own standards, a liar.
I am pretty sure I have never said the Sun stood still in the sky for a whole day.

Joshua 10:12-13
Then spoke Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord gave the Amorites over to the men of Israel; and he said in the sight of Israel, "Sun, stand thou still at Gibeon, and thou Moon in the valley of Aijalon." And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stayed in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.

My disagreement remains with those who claim this happened because it is written in the Bible. My original quotes are better suited to the �Evolution Proof?� thread where Genesis is being offered as scientific text.

Meanwhile on the subject matter of this thread, I have been looking into some of the �Books� not in the Bible.
Gospel of Thomas
Gospel of Judas
Gospel of Mary
Apocalypse of Peter
The Epistle of Barnabas
Book of Enoch�
I almost forgot the Jefferson Bible. I have one and everybody should have one. Next to the Catholic Bible it's the one I use most often.
Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
I am pretty sure I have never said the Sun stood still in the sky for a whole day.
How about answering my question?
Just how far does your arrogance extend? You take it upon yourself to lecture me over sunrises and sunsets?

While completely missing the point of my post nor answered my original question.
Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
Just how far does your arrogance extend? You take it upon yourself to lecture me over sunrises and sunsets?

While completely missing the point of my post nor answered my original question.
I don't blame you for dodging. You're able to see that your answer will do your argument in.
Prologue: As the wise man wrote, ". . .Of the writing of many books there is no end and much study is a weariness of the flesh. . ."

This 1924 treatise by the great Philip Mauro may be a bit scholarly for some and too lengthy for others to read from beginning to end, but it is my considered opinion that one is not qualified to definitively and objectively discuss "Which Bible" without considering the information and arguments he has so clearly laid before us.

In his time the choice of English versions was either the 1611 King James or the new 1885 English Revised/1901 American Standard versions. Today there are multiple dozens of English versions, all differing from one another, yet all claiming to be God's Word. "Favorite" Bible is one thing . . . just as "church or your choice" is another, but the truth will set you free. - Okie



WHICH VERSION?
AUTHORIZED OR REVISED?


By Philip Mauro (1924)

The present inquiry is in regard to the many differences, some of them quite serious, between the Authorized or King James Version, first published in 1611, and the Revised Version of 1881. The total number of the departures of the latter from the former is over 36,000.

This raises some serious questions.

Why was such an enormous number of changes made? On what authority? Briefly, do they give us a better version, that is, one that brings us nearer to the original autographs of the inspired writings? And is the Authorized Version so very defective as implied by such an enormous number of corrections?

Not only is this a matter of the highest consequence, but it is one as touching which the ordinary Bible reader would wish to have a well grounded opinion of his own.

Order of Discussion

1. The Several Versions
2. The Various Greek Texts
3. The Ancient Codices. The Vatican Codex And The Siniatic.
4. Characteristics of the Two Oldest Manuscripts
5. The Principle of "Ancient Evidence Only" Examined.
6. The Procedure of the Revision Committee
7. Specific Examples of Textual Corruption
8. Changes in Translation
9. The Use Made of the Margin in the R.V.
10. Theory of Westcott and Hort Upon Which "The New Greek Text" Was Constructed
11. Conclusion

Introduction

Our purpose is to set forth information concerning the Authorized and Revised Versions of the New Testament, information which should be shared by all Bible readers, but is in the possession of only a few in our day.

The present inquiry is in regard to the many differences, some of them quite serious, between the "Authorized," or King James Version, first published in 1611, and the "Revised" Version of 1881. The total number of the departures of the latter from the former is over thirty-six thousand.

This raises some serious questions.

Why was such an enormous number of changes made? On what authority? Briefly, do they give us a better Version, that is, one that brings us nearer to the original autographs of the inspired Writings? And is the Authorized Version so very defective as implied by such an enormous number of corrections?

Not only is this a matter of the highest consequence, but it is one as touching which the ordinary Bible reader would wish to have a well grounded opinion of his own. As a basis for such an opinion he must have knowledge of the pertinent facts; for the experts, the textual critics, editors, and Greek scholars, differ and dispute among themselves; and their discussions and dissertations abound in matters so technical and abstruse that ordinary persons cannot follow them. Therefore the conflicting opinions of the experts serve only to becloud the subject for the common people.

The pertinent facts themselves are not difficult to understand; but they are inaccessible to most Bible readers. Therefore we are writing these pages with the object mainly of setting forth such facts concerning the two rival Versions, the sources whence they were respectively derived, and the circumstances attending the coming into existence of the Revised Version, as have served as a basis for the writer's own judgment. Those facts are not only supremely important, but are also absorbingly interesting. So it is not to a dry or tedious discussion that we invite the reader of this book, but to one of lively interest.

As to which is the better of the two Versions of the English Bible there is of course a difference of opinion. Those who favor the modern Version will point to the fact that, during the three hundred years that have elapsed since the A.V. was translated, much material has been discovered whereby additional light is thrown upon the Text. They also refer to the advancement in all departments of learning; and to the fact that the R.V. was the result of the labors of eminent scholars, who spent ten years upon its production.

All this is true; and other general facts of like import could be mentioned, all of which served to prepare the minds of English-speaking people everywhere to give a most favorable reception to the new Version. How comes it then that the King James Version has not only maintained its place of supremacy, but of late years has forged further and further ahead of its rival? This surely is a matter worthy of our thoughtful consideration.

Even so great an enemy of Christianity as H.G. Wells acknowledges that civilization owes both its origin and its preservation to the Bible. He has recently declared in print that "civilization we possess could not have come into existence, and could not have been sustained, without it." Again he admits that "it is the Book that has held together the fabric of Western civilization;" that it has "unified and kept together great masses of people;" it is "the handbook of life to countless millions of men and women, it has explained the world to the mass of our people, and has given them moral standards and a form into which their consciences could work."

Here is testimony which is all the more valuable because it comes from one of the most prominent of the enemies of the faith which rests for its support upon the Bible; and we wonder how any man, who is capable of grasping the facts thus admitted by Mr. Wells, can fail to see that a Book which has, through centuries of time, accomplished results so great in magnitude and so excellent in character, must needs be of super-human origin.

The facts, which Mr. Wells and other infidels are constrained to admit, concerning the influence of the Bible, and concerning the extent, duration, and above all the character of that influence among the peoples of the world, cannot be predicated, even in a small measure, of any other book. So here we have, in the outstanding facts which even the enemies of Christ are constrained to acknowledge, proof enough of the Divine authorship of the Holy Scriptures.

I. THE SEVERAL VERSIONS

The Occasion for the Revised Version

The Bible is the one Book in the world which is constantly under scrutiny; and the scrutiny to which it is subject is of the most searching kind, and from the keenest and best equipped minds in the world- and this, by the way, is another strong, though indirect, proof that the Bible is not a human book.

This continuous and microscopical examination of the Bible, and of all the circumstances and conditions connected with the origin of its various parts, has been carried on both by its friends, who value all the information they can gather concerning it, and also by its enemies, who are unremitting in their search for facts which might be used to discredit its statements or impugn its accuracy.

This unceasing scrutiny extends not only to every word of the original text, but to the more minute questions of prefix, termination, spelling, tense of verbs, and even to the very smallest matters, such as the placing of an accent.

It would seem as if every generation of men was impelled, as by some strong but inscrutable influence, thus to recognize the importance of every "jot and tittle" of this Book of books.

As the result of this constant and painstaking study of the Scriptures during the centuries following the appearance of the A.V., it became increasingly evident that, notwithstanding the excellencies of that great and admirable work, there were particulars wherein, for one cause or another, it admitted of (and indeed called for) correction. For those who translated it, though godly and scholarly, and though assisted, as we doubt not they were in large measure, by the Holy Spirit, were but human, and therefore compassed with infirmity.

Moreover, in the course of the years following the completion of their labors, discoveries were made which affected the original text of the New Testament, and other discoveries which threw fresh light upon the meaning of obscure words and difficult passages. It was found also that corrections in translation were demanded here and there, particularly in regard to the tenses of verbs.

And besides all that, we have to take into consideration the fact (for which the translators of the A.V. were in no wise responsible) that changes had meanwhile occurred in the meanings of not a few English words and expressions.

For all these reasons it appeared desirable that our excellent and justly admired Authorized Version should have such a revision as that for which the Revision Committee was appointed in the year 1871. For it should be understood that what was contemplated by those who were responsible for the appointment of that Committee was simply a revision of the Version of 1611; and had the Committee confined themselves to the task actually entrusted to them, and kept within the limits of the instructions given to them, the results of their long labors would no doubt have been a gain and a blessing to all the English-speaking nations, and through them to all mankind.

But instead of a Revised version of the long accepted English Bible, the Committee brought forth (so far at least as the New Testament was concerned) a New Version. This fact was not disclosed by them. The "Preface to the Edition of A.D. 1885" gives no indication of it; but through the vigilance of certain godly and scholarly men (Dean Burgon in particular) the important fact was discerned and brought to light that the Committee had produced, not a Revised Version (though that was the name given it) but a New Version, which was a translation of a "New Greek Text."

The importance of this fact will be made evident as we proceed. It will also be a matter of much interest to show the sources from which this "New Greek Text" was derived, and the means whereby its adoption by the Committee (as to which there was considerable mystery at the time) was brought about.

The Present Situation

It is now more than forty years - the Scriptural period of full probation - since the R.V. appeared; and as we contemplate the existing situation (in the year 1924) the most conspicuous fact that presents itself to our view is that the New Version (in either or both of its forms) has not superseded the A.V., and that there is not the faintest indication that it will ever do so. Indeed it appears that the R.V. is declining, rather than gaining, favor, and that with Bible users of all classes, from the most scholarly to the most unlearned.

This is a fact of much significance, and due consideration should be given to it in an attempt one might make to arrive at a just estimate of the relative values of the rival Versions.
What is the explanation of this fact? It is not that the Old Version did not and does not admit of corrections and improvements. Nor is it that the Revisers did not make them; for it cannot be denied that the R.V. contains many improved readings. Yet for all that, as the experience of a whole generation has now conclusively demonstrated, the A.V. retains, and in all probability will continue to retain, its long undisputed place as the standard English Bible.

This failure of the new Versions, or either of them, to displace the old, is attributed by some to the supposed conservatism of people in general, and to their assumed reluctance to accept changes of any sort. But we should say the truth in this regard is rather that people in our time are unduly ready, and even eager, to welcome every kind of a change. Radical innovations are the order of the day. On every hand we see the "old" being discarded for the "new" and the "up-to-date;" and in no department of human affairs is this eagerness for change more manifest than in the field of literature (if that word may be properly applied to what people are reading now-a-days.)

Moreover, the generation of those who had known only the A.V., and who therefore might have been disposed to cling to it for that reason alone, is now passed away; and that fact which confronts us is that whereas those living at that time (1881-1885) seemed quite ready and willing to welcome the R.V., fully expecting it to be a real improvement upon the older Version, the almost unanimous judgment of the next succeeding generation is that the older Version is to be preferred.

But, looking beyond and above the sphere of mere human judgment, and recognizing the superintendence of the Spirit of God in all that has to do with the Word of God, we feel warranted in concluding from the facts stated above that there are Divine reasons for the retention of the A.V. in the favor of the people of God. We will try, therefore, to point out some of those reasons.

The Original Text

Very few of those who read the Scriptures have any idea how much depends upon the all-important matter of settling the Greek Text of the New Testament, or how many and how great the difficulties involved therein. Of those who give any thought at all to the matter the larger number seem to suppose that there exists somewhere an acknowledged original Text of the New Testament, and that the work of preparing an English Version is merely a matter of the correct translation of that Greek Text.

But the case is far otherwise; for the first part of the work is to settle the Greek Text from which the translation is to be made; and this is a matter of immense difficulty, for the reason that the original materials from which the Text must be constructed embrace upwards if a thousand manuscripts. Some of these contain the whole, or nearly the whole, of the New Testament; and the rest contain a part, some more, some less, thereof. Of these manuscripts a few are supposedly as early as the fourth or fifth century, and others as late as the fourteenth.

Then there are also certain ancient Versions (or Translations) as the Latin, Syriac and Coptic, whose testimony as to disputed passages must be considered, particularly for the reason that some of them are older than the earliest Greek manuscripts known to exist at the present time. The most noted of these is the Peshitto, or Syriac Version, which dates from very early in the Christian era, probably from the second century.

The original materials for the making of a Greek Text embrace also numerous quotations of Scripture found in the copious writings of the "church fathers," which have survived to our day. This is an important source of information; for those quotations are so numerous, and they cover so much ground in the aggregate, that the greater part of the Text of the entire New Testament constituted from them alone.

But no two of these thousands of manuscripts are exactly alike; and every discrepancy raises a distinct question requiring separate investigation and separate decision. While, however, the precise readings of thousands of passages is affected by these differences, it must not be supposed that there is any uncertainty whatever as to the teaching and testimony of the New Testament in its entirety.

The consoling facts in that regard are: (1) that the vast majority of the variant readings are so slight (a mere question of a single letter, or an accent, or a prefix, or a case ending) as not to raise any question at all concerning the true sense of the passage; and (2) that the sum of all the variant readings taken together does not give ground for the slightest doubt as to any of the fundamental points of faith and doctrine. In other words, the very worst Text that could be construed from the abundant materials available would not disturb any of the great truths of the Christian faith.

It will be seen, therefore, that the making of a Greek Text, as the first step in producing an English Version, involves the immense labor of examining, for every disputed word and passage, the numerous manuscripts, ancient Versions, and quotations now known to exist, and also the making of a decision in each case where there is a conflict between the various witnesses.

This is a highly complicated task; and for the proper performance of it other qualities besides Greek and English scholarship are required. For example, one must settle at the outset what degree of credibility is to be imputed to the respective manuscripts; and this is where, in our opinion, the compilers of the Greek Text used as the basis for the R.V. went far astray, with the result that the Text adopted by them was much inferior to that used in the translation of the A.V. Our reasons for this opinion, which will be given later on, are such as to be easily understood.

In this connection it is important to observe that no amount of care in the work of translation will tend to cure defects in the original Text; but that, on the contrary, the more faithful the translation the more effectively will the errors of the Text be carried into the resulting Version.

The Revision Committee not Instructed to Fashion a New Greek Text

Moreover, it is to be noted in this connection that the instructions under which the Revisers acted did not contemplate the making of a New Greek Text; nor did they have the qualifications needed for such a complicated task. The reader will be astonished, we venture to predict, when he comes to learn (as we propose to show later on) the of procedure whereby, in this case, that "New Greek Text" was fashioned. But at this point we merely direct attention to the fact that the Committee was instructed to undertake "A Revision of the Authorized Version," with a view to "the removal of plain and clear errors," and that the first rule was "To introduce as few alterations as possible into the text of the Authorized."

This prompts us to ask, if 36,000 alterations were the fewest possible for the Revisers to introduce, what would they have done had a perfectly free hand been given them?

Furthermore, we believe it can be clearly shown that the work of translation in the case of the R.V. is as a whole much inferior to that of the A.V. (notwithstanding the many improved readings given in the R.V.) insomuch that, as one competent authority has said, the later version is characterized by "bad English everywhere."

The Hebrew Text of the Old Testament

As already stated, the difficulties attending the Greek text of the New Testament do not exist in connection with the Old Testament, the original of which is in the Hebrew tongue. For there is but a single Standard Hebrew text, the "Masoretic Text," which is recognized by both Jewish and Christian authorities as the true Text of the Hebrew Scriptures.

II. The Various Greek Texts

Stephens (A.D. 1550)

The Text of Stephens is that which served as the basis of the A.V. In its production the compiler was guided in large measure, though not exclusively, by the comparatively recent manuscripts (ninth, tenth, and eleventh centuries) which had been in use in various churches of Europe, Asia and Africa.

It might be supposed that Stephens was at a disadvantage with respect to later compilers in that he did not have the benefit of the manuscripts, particularly the Vatican and Sinaitic, which were available to later editors, as Tischendorf, Tregelles and Westcott and Hort. But the fact is, and this we hope to make quite plain, that the comparative excellence of the Text of Stephens (and the Elzevir or Textus Receptus-see next sub-heading below) is due in no small degree to the fact that in its composition the Vatican and Sinaitic Mss. were not consulted.

The comparatively late Mss., from which the Stephens and Elzevir texts were mainly compiled, were, of course, copies of older ones, which were in time used up, and which themselves were copies of others still more ancient. In all this copying and re-copying, there would inevitably have crept in the various errors to which copyists are liable. Moreover, in some cases there were alterations purposely made, from one motive or another.

When an error crept into a copy, or was purposely introduced, it would naturally be perpetuated in copies made from that one; and thus variations from the original would tend to multiplication.
There was, however, a check upon this tendency. For such was the reverence paid to the sacred Text, and such the desire that copies used in the churches should be pure, that every opportunity would be embraced for comparing one Text with another; and where differences were observed there would be naturally an investigation for the purpose of establishing the true reading. Thus, by examination and comparison of a moderate number-say ten or twenty-comparatively late manuscripts from widely separated points, it would be possible to establish, almost to a certainty, the original reading of any disputed passage, or, if it were a passage whose authenticity as a whole was questioned, to decide whether it were genuine Scripture or not.

Elzevir or "Textus Receptus" (A.D. 1624)

This edition, with which the name and fame of the great Erasmus are associated, has been for centuries, and still is, the best known and most widely used of all the Greek Texts. While this justly famous edition is later by some years than the publication of the A.V., the differences between it and its immediate predecessor, the Stephens edition, are so few and unimportant that the two may be regarded for all practical purposes as one and the same. Thus all the scholarship back of the Textus Receptus is an endorsement of the Text which served as the basis for the translation of our A.V. it is apparent from what has been said already that if the Revisers of the 19th century had used the same Greek Text, either as it stood, or with such corrections as might seem justified by discoveries made subsequently to 1624, they would have given us a Version having a comparatively small number of changed readings. In fact it is within bounds to say that, if the Revisers had given us simply a corrected translation of the Textus Receptus, instead of a translation of an entirely "New Greek Text." we should not have more than a small fraction, say less than ten percent, of the changes found in the R.V. And what is more, not one of those changes which are regarded as serious, and against which such a storm of protest has been raised (and that from men of the highest scholarship and deepest piety) would have been made. In that case it is likely also that the changes would have commended themselves to the majority of discriminating Bible users.

Lachmann (A.D. 1842-1850)

This editor appears to have been the first to act upon the theory or principle that the more ancient the manuscript the more worthy of credence. The extent to which this idea has been allowed to control in the settling of disputed readings, without regard to other weighty considerations whereby the credibility of the contradictory witnesses should properly have been determined, is very extraordinary.

This matter calls for special attention, not only because of the important part it played in settling the Text of the R.V., but because it seems to be quite generally taken for granted that the older the manuscript the more worthy to be believed where there is a conflict of testimony.

We propose, therefore, to examine this rule of evidence with some care later on; and in that connection we will endeavor to show why we believe that the principles which controlled in the compilation of the Textus Receptus are far more conformable to the sound rules of evidence, and hence more likely to lead to right conclusions, than that adopted by Lachmann and his successors.

Lachmann seems to have conceived a prejudicial dislike for the Received Text, and (as a good authority expresses it) to have "set to work to form a text independent of that, right or wrong.
He started with the theory of ancient evidence only, thus sweeping away many copies and much evidence, because they dated below his fixed period." In fact he did not seek to arrive at the original inspired Writings, but merely "to recover the Text as it was in the fourth century."

This principle, first adopted by Lachmann, and followed with well-nigh calamitous results by his successors, including Drs. Westcott and Hort (who were responsible for the Text which underlies the R.V.) is based upon the tacit assumption that there existed in the fourth century a Greek Text which was generally accepted, and which was also virtually pure. But it is now recognized that the very worst corruptions of the original Writings are those which occurred prior to this time.

And not only so, but, at the time of the appearance of the R.V. Drs. Westcott and Hort put forth an elaborate explanation of the principles adopted by them in the making of their "New Greek Text" (which up to that time had been privately circulated among the Revisionists, and under injunctions of strictest secrecy) and in it they admitted that the Textus Receptus is substantially identical with the Text used in the Churches of Syria and elsewhere in and prior to the fourth century.

To this important feature of the case we will refer more in detail later on; for it proves that the authors of the Text adopted by the Revisers, while appealing to the principle of "ancient evidence" as the reason for their departures from the Received Text, have made admissions which show that they in fact acted directly contrary to that principle.

Now, as to the assumption that because a given Text or Ms. dated from the fourth century it would be purer than one of later date, we quote the following statement of one who was generally regarded as the ablest textual critic of those days, Dr. Frederick H. A. Scrivener, who, in his Introduction to the Text of the N.T. (3d ed. p. 5 1 1) says: "It is no less true to fact than paradoxical in sound that the worst corruptions to which the New Testament has ever been subjected originated within a hundred years after it was composed; that Irenaeus and the African Fathers, and the whole Western church, with a portion of the Syrian, had far inferior manuscripts to those employed by Stunica, or Erasmus, or Stephens, thirteen centuries later, when moulding the Textus Receptus.

But Lachmann proceeded in disregard of this fact, and no doubt because ignorant of it. He thus set a bad example; and unfortunately his example has been followed by editors who came after him, men of great learning unquestionably, and having accurate knowledge of early Greek, but apparently knowing little of the history of the various Greek manuscripts, and nothing at all of the laws of evidence, and how to deal with problems involving the investigation of a mass of conflicting testimony.
Tischendorf (A.D. 1865-1872)

This scholar, whose great abilities and unremitting labors are widely recognized, has had a dominating influence in the formation of the modern Text. Tischendorf proceeded upon a plan which we give in his own words: "This text is to be sought only from ancient evidence. and especially from Greek Mss., but without neglecting the testimonies of Versions and Fathers."

From this we see that Tischendorf thoroughly committed himself to the principle of giving the "ancient evidence" the deciding voice in all disputed readings. That he should have adopted this principle was specially unfortunate because of the circumstance that Tischendorf himself was the discoverer of the famous Codex Sinaiticus (of which we shall have occasion to speak more particularly later on) which manuscript is reputed the most ancient but one of all the now existing Greek manuscripts of the N.T., and which therefore, upon the principle referred to, is entitled to the highest degree of credibility.

But whether or not the Sinaitic Ms. is the most ancient of all now known to exist, it is, beyond any doubt whatever, the most defective, corrupt, and untrustworthy. Our reasons for this assertion (reasons which are ample to establish it) will be given later on. We wish at this point merely to note the fact (leaving the proof thereof for a subsequent chapter) that the most serious of the many departures of the R.V. from the A.V. are due to the unhappy conjunction of an unsound principle of evidence and the fortuitous discovery, by a scholar who had accepted that principle, of a very ancient Greek Ms. of the N.T., a Ms. which, despite its unquestioned antiquity turns out to be about the worst and most "scandalously corrupt" of all the Greek Texts now known to exist.

Tregelles

This editor was contemporary with Tischendorf. As stated in his own words his purpose was "to give the text on the authority of the oldest Mss. and Versions, and with the aid of the earlier citations, so as to present, so far as possible, the text commonly received in the fourth century."

This, it will be observed, is substantially the plan proposed by Lachmann; and these are the precedents which seem to have mainly influenced Westcott and Hort in the compilation of their Text, which is virtually the Text from which the R.V. was made.

Dr. Scrivener says (Introduction p. 342): "Lachmann's text seldom rests on more than four Greek Codices, very often on three, not infrequently on two, sometimes on only one." His fallacy, which was adopted by Tregelles, necessarily proved fatal to the text prepared by the latter, who in fact acted upon the astounding assumption that "eighty-nine ninetieths" of our existing manuscripts and other authorities might safely be rejected, in order that we might be free to follow a few early documents of bad repute.

This tendency in a wrong direction found a still further development in Tischendorf, and came to full fruition in Westcott and Hort, who were allowed to fashion according to their own ideas the Greek Text of the R.V.

Alford

The work of this editor (who is rated high as a Greek scholar, though we know not how competent he was to decide questions of fact where there was conflict of testimony) was subsequent to that of the two preceding editors. Concerning their work he says that "If Tischendorf has run into a fault on the side of speculative hypotheses concerning the origins of readings found in those Mss., it must be confessed that Tregelles has sometimes erred on the (certainly far safer) side of scrupulous adherence to the more literal evidence of the ancient Mss." Alford's text was constructed-to state it in his own words-"by following in all ordinary cases the united or preponderating testimony of the most ancient authorities." Later evidence was taken into consideration by him only when "the most ancient authorities did not agree or preponderate."

It seems not to have occurred to this learned man, any more than to the others, that mere antiquity was not a safe test of reliability where witnesses were in conflict, and that a late copy of a correct original should be preferred to a corrupt Ms. of earlier date.

III. The Ancient Codices.

The Vatican Codex and the Sinaitic

This brings us to the consideration of those "ancient manuscripts" or "codices" as they are usually called, to which the modern editors have attributed so high a degree of credibility, and by which their decisions in the construction of a Greek Text for the R.V. have been so largely influenced; and especially to the consideration of the two most venerable of all the existing witnesses to the sacred text, namely the Codex Vaticanus, so called because its repository is the papal palace (the Vatican) at Rome, and the Codex Sinaiticus, so called because it was discovered by Tischendorf in a monastery on Mt. Sinai in Arabia.

These Mss. are supposed, from the character of the writing, and from other internal evidences, to date from the fourth century. The next oldest are supposed to date from the fifth century.

Hence, upon the generally accepted theory to which we have referred above, the testimony of the two codices just named is to be accepted as decisive in the case of disputed readings.

Therefore, the Revisers of 1881 committed themselves to the leading of these two "ancient witnesses." Did they lead towards or away from the true text of the inspired Writings? That is the deeply important matter into which we propose now to inquire. In addition to the Codex Vaticanus and the Codex Sinaiticus, there are three other very ancient Mss.

These are:

1. Codex Alexandrinus. This Ms. has been kept for a long time in the British Museum in London. It contains all the Gospels (except small parts of Matthew and John) and all the rest of the N.T. except 2 Cor. 4:13-12:6 (fifth century)

2. Codex Ephraemi. kept in Paris, containing only portions of the Gospels, the Acts, Epistles and Revelation (fifth century.)

3. Codex Bezae, kept at Cambridge, England, containing nearly all the Gospels and nothing else of the N.T. except portions of Acts (sixth century). It has a very bad reputation, as fully exposed by Dean Burgon. No editor appears to attach importance to it.

The Discovery of the Mt. Sinai Ms.

This famous Codex (with facsmilies of the handwriting, and with an account of its discovery) is published in full in Dr. Scrivener's work entitled "A Full Collation of the Codex Sinaiticus" (1864).

Constantine Tischendorf, a noted German scholar, who was indefatigable in the quest of old manuscripts, was visiting, in the year 1844, a monastery on Mt. Sinai, and in the course of that visit he chanced to find one day, among the waste, some leaves of vellum which, upon inspection, were found to contain parts I of I the Septuagint Version of the O.T. in a script which indicated that the Ms. was of great antiquity.

In describing his famous discovery Tischendorf says:

"I perceived in the middle of the great hall a large and wide basket, full of old parchments; and the librarian informed me that two heaps of papers like this, mouldered by reason of age, had been already committed to the flames. What was my surprise to find among this heap of documents a considerable number of sheets of a copy of the Old Testament in Greek, which seemed to me to be one of the most ancient I had ever seen."

The monks allowed him to take forty-five of the sheets. But nothing more transpired until fifteen years later, when he again visited the monastery, this time under the direct patronage of the Czar of Russia. And then he was shown a bulky roll of parchment leaves, which included, among other manuscripts of lesser importance, the Codex now known as the Sinaitic.

Naturally enough Dr. Tischendorf was highly elated by his discovery. indeed his enthusiasm was unbounded. He says, "I knew that I held in my hands the most precious Biblical treasure in existence;" and he considered this discovery to be "greater than that of the Koh-i-noor (diamond) of the Queen of England."

As usual in such cases this important "find" made a great stir, especially amongst those who devote themselves to the study of antiquity. We are all aware of the marked tendency of human nature to exaggerate the importance of every "find". Examples of this sort greet us from time to time. The discovery of the tomb of an. Egyptian king is regarded as a matter of such supreme interest to all the world, that even trivial details connected with it are communicated by cable to the ends of the earth, and are given prominence in the daily newspapers.

Thus an ancient article recently exhumed from the rubbish of a long buried city will oftentimes start a wave of excitement throughout the world; whereas an article of identical sort, known to have been in existence for some time, would be treated with complete indifference. We need not wonder, therefore, that the great scholar was carried away by his chance discovery, and that he succeeded in impressing upon others also his own idea of the surpassing importance of his "find."

Dean Burgon, speaking of Tischendorf and his discovery, aptly remarks:

"Happy in having discovered (in 1859) an uncial Codex, second in antiquity only to the oldest before known (the Vatican Codex), and strongly resembling that famous fourth century Codex, he suffered his judgment to be overpowered by the circumstance. He at once remodelled his 7th edition (i.e. the 7th edition of his Greek Text of the New Testament) in 3,505 places, to the scandal of the Science of Comparative Criticism, as well as to his own grave discredit for discernment and consistency."

Evidently then, Tischendorf was carried off his feet by the subjective influence of his discovery; for he at once surrendered his judgment to this particular Ms. easily persuading himself that, because of its apparent antiquity, and without regard to any other considerations, it must needs be right in every instance where it differed from later manuscripts.

Thus, having fully committed himself to that view, he naturally adhered to it thereafter.

Unfortunately, however, the weight of his great influence affected the whole school of Comparative Textual Criticism.

For Dean Burgon goes on to say:

"But in fact the infatuation which prevails to this hour (1883) in this department of sacred science can only be spoken of as incredible."

And he proceeds to show, by proofs which fill many pages "that the one distinctive tenet of the three most famous critics since 1831 (Lachmann, Tregelles and Tischendorf) has been a superstitious reverence for what is found in the same little handful of early (but not the earliest, nor yet of necessity the purest) documents.

In this connection it should be always borne in mind that those text-makers who profess to adopt as their controlling principle the acceptance on disputed points of the testimony of "the most ancient manuscripts," have not acted consistently with that principle. For the fact is that, in the compilation of their Greek Texts they have not really followed the most ancient manuscripts, but have been controlled by two manuscripts only.

Those two are followed even against the counter evidence of all other available manuscripts, amounting to over a thousand, some of which are practically of equal age, and against the evidence also of Versions and of quotations from the writings of "fathers" much older than the two Codices referred to. But to this feature of our subject we expect to return.

IV. The Characteristics of the Two Oldest Manuscripts

The principle which the modern editors have adopted, namely, that of following the oldest manuscripts in settling all questions of doubtful or disputed readings, throws us back upon the two Codices (Vaticanus and Sinaiticus) which, though not dated, are regarded by all competent antiquarians as belonging to the fourth century; and its practical effect is to make those two solitary survivors of the first four Christian centuries the final authorities, where they agree (which is not always the case), upon all questions of the true Text of Scripture.

Therefore it behooves us to inquire with the utmost care into the character of these two ancient witnesses, and to acquaint ourselves with all available facts whereby their trustworthiness may be tested. And this inquiry is necessary, regardless of what may be our opinion concerning the principle of "ancient evidence only," which we propose to examine later on. For what now confronts us is the fact that those two fourth century Codices have had the deciding voice in the settling of the Greek Text of the R.V. and are responsible for practically all the departures from the Received Text to which serious objection has been made.

Thus, Canon Cook in his authoritative work on "The Revised Version of the First Three Gospels" says:

"The two oldest Mss. are responsible for nearly all the readings which we have brought under consideration- readings -which, when we look at them individually, and still more when we regard them collectively, inflict most grievous damage upon our Lord's words and works."

And again:

"By far the greatest number in innovations, including those which give the severest shocks to our minds, are adopted on the testimony of two manuscripts, or even of one manuscript, against the distinct testimony of all other manuscripts , uncial and cursive . . . .. The Vatican Codex, sometimes alone, but generally in accord with the Sinaitic, is responsible for nine-tenths of the most striking innovations in the R.V."

Dean Burgon, whom we shall have occasion to quote largely because of his mastery of the entire subject, after having spent five and a half years "laboriously collating the five old uncials throughout the Gospels," declared at the completion of his prodigious task that-

"So manifest are the disfigurements jointly and exclusively exhibited by the two codices (Vatican and Sinaitic) that, instead of accepting them as two independent witnesses to the inspired original, we are constrained to regard them as little more than a single reproduction of one and the same scandalously corrupt and comparatively late copy."

The Many Corrections of the Sinaitic Ms.

Turning our attention first to the Codex Sinaiticus, we would lay stress upon a matter which, in our judgment, has a decisive bearing upon the all-important question of the trustworthiness of that ancient manuscript. And we are the more urgent to impress this particular matter upon the consideration of our readers because-notwithstanding its controlling importance-it has been practically ignored in such discussions of the subject as have come under our eye.

What we now refer to is the fact that, since this document was first inscribed, it has been made the subject of no less than ten different attempts of revision and correction. The number of these attempts is witnessed by the different choreographies of the revisers, and the centuries in which they were respectively made can be approximated by the character of the different hand-writings by which the several sets of corrections were carried out.

Dr. Scrivener published (in 1864) "A Full Collation of the Codex Sinaiticus," with an explanatory introduction in which he states, among other facts of interest, that "the Codex is covered with such alterations"-i.e., alterations of an obviously correctional character-"brought in by at least ten different revisers, some of them systematically spread over every page, others occasional, or limited to separate portions of the Ms., many of these being contemporaneous with the first writer, but for the greater part belonging to the sixth or seventh century."

We are sure that every intelligent reader will perceive, and with little effort, the immense significance of this feature of the Sinaitic Codex. Here is a document which the Revisers have esteemed (and that solely because of its antiquity) to be so pure that it should be taken as a standard whereby all other copies of the Scriptures are to be tested and corrected. Such is the estimate of certain scholars of the 19th century. But it bears upon its face the proof that those in whose possession it had been, from the very first, and for some hundreds of years thereafter, esteemed it to be so impure as to require correction in every part.

Considering the great value to its owner of such a manuscript (it is on vellum of the finest quality) and that he would be most reluctant to consent to alterations in it except the need was clearly apparent, it is plain that this much admired Codex bears upon its face the most incontestable proof of its corrupt and defective character.

But more than that, Dr. Scrivener tells us that the evident purpose of the thorough-going revision which he places in the 6th or 7th century was to make the Ms. conform to manuscripts in vogue at that time which were "far nearer to our modern Textus Receptus."

The evidential value of these numerous attempts at correcting the Sinaitic Codex and of the plainly discernible purpose of the most important of those attempts is such that, by all the sound rules and principles of evidence, this "ancient witness," so far from tending to raise doubts as to the trustworthiness and textual purity of the Received Text, should be regarded as affording strong confirmation thereof.

From these facts, therefore, we deduce: first that the impurity of the Codex Sinaiticus, in every part of it, was fully recognized by those best acquainted with it, and that from the very beginning until the time when it was finally cast aside as worthless for any practical purpose; and second that the Text recognized in those days as the standard Text, and by which the defective Codex now so highly rated by scholars was corrected, was one that agreed with our Textus Receptus.

It is most surprising that facts which affect so profoundly the evidential value of the Codex Sinaiticus, facts which indeed change it from a hostile to a friendly witness (as regards the Received Text) should have been so completely disregarded.

The Work of an Incompetent Scribe

There are other characteristics of this old Ms. which have to be taken into consideration if a correct estimate of its evidential value is to be reached. Thus, there are internal evidences that lead to the conclusion that it was the work of a scribe who was singularly careless, or incompetent, or both. In this Ms. the arrangement of the lines is peculiar, there being four columns on each page, each line containing about twelve letters-all capitals run together. There is no attempt to end a word at the end of a line, for even words having only two letters as en, ek, are split in the middle, the last letter being carried over to the beginning of the next line, though there was ample room for it on the line preceding. This and other peculiarities give us an idea of the character and competence of the scribe.

But more than that, Dr. Scrivener says: "This manuscript must have been derived from one in which the lines were similarly divided, since the writer occasionally omits just the number of letters which would suffice to fill a line, and that to the utter ruin of the sense; as if his eye had heedlessly wandered to the line immediately below." Dr. Scrivener cites instances "where complete lines are omitted," and others "where the copyist passed in the middle of a line to the corresponding portion of the line below.

From this it is evident that the work of copying was done by a scribe who was both heedless and incompetent. A careful copyist would not have made the above and other mistakes so frequently; and only the most incompetent would have failed to notice, upon reading over the page, and to correct, omissions which utterly destroyed the sense.

Dr. Scrivener's judgment on this feature of the case is entitled to the utmost confidence, not only because of his great ability as a textual critic, but because, being impressed, as all antiquarians were, with the importance of Tischendorf's discovery, it was solely from a sheer sense of duty and honesty, and with manifest reluctance, that he brought himself to point out the defects of the manuscript.

Therefore, the following admission made by him carries much weight:

"It must be confessed indeed that the Codex Sinaiticus abounds with similar errors of the eye and pen, to an extent not unparalleled, but happily rather unusual in documents of first rate importance; so that Tregelles has freely pronounced that 'the state of the text, as proceeding from the first scribe, may be regarded as very rough.'"

Speaking of the character of the two oldest Mss. Dean Burgon says:

"The impurity of the text exhibited by these codices is not a question of opinion but of fact .... In the Gospels alone Codex B (Vatican) leaves out words or whole clauses .no less than 1,491 times. It bears traces of careless transcription on every page. Codex Sinaiticus 'abounds with errors of the eye and pen to an extent not indeed unparalleled, but happily rather unusual in documents of first-rate importance.' On many occasions 10, 20, 30, 40 words are dropped through very carelessness. Letters and words, even whole sentences, are frequently written twice over, or begun and immediately cancelled; while that gross blunder, whereby a clause is omitted because it happens to end in the same words as the clause preceding, occurs no less than 115 times in the New Testament."

In enumerating and describing the five ancient Codices now in existence, Dean Burgon remarks that four of these, and especially the Vatican and Sinaitic Mss. "have, within the last twenty years, established a tyrannical ascendancy over the imagination of the critics which can only be fitly spoken of as blind superstition."

Those ancient Codices have indeed been blindly followed, notwithstanding that they differ "not only from ninety-pine out of a hundred of the whole body of extant Mss. besides, but even from one another. This last circumstance, obviously fatal to their corporate pretensions, is unaccountably overlooked. As said of the two false witnesses that came to testify against Christ, so it may be said of these witnesses who are brought forward at this late day to testify against the Received Text, "But neither so did their witness agree together."

Number and Kinds of Differences

As a sufficient illustration of the many differences between these two Codices and the great body of other Mss. we note that, in the Gospels alone, Codex Vaticanus differs from the Received Text in the following particulars: It omits at least 2,877 words; it adds 536 words; it substitutes 935 words; it transposes 2,098 words; and it modifies 1,132; making a total of 7,578 verbal divergences. But the Sinaitic Ms. is even worse, for its total divergences in the particulars stated above amount to nearly nine thousand.

Summing up the case against these two fourth century Codices (with which he includes the Beza, supposedly of the sixth) Dean Burgon solemnly assures us, and "without a particle of hesitation, that they are three of the most scandalously corrupt copies extant;" That they "exhibit the most shamefully mutilated texts which are anywhere to be met with;" that they "have become (by whatever process, for their history is wholly unknown) the depositories of the largest amount of fabricated readings, ancient blunders, and intentional perversion of truth, which are discoverable in any known copies of the Word of God".

These are strong statements, but the facts on which they are based seem fully to warrant them. Therefore it matters not what specific excellencies might be attributed to the Revised Version of the New Testament, the fact that the underlying Greek Text was fashioned in conformity to the Mss. referred to in the above quoted paragraph is reason enough why it should be shunned by Bible users.

But let it be remembered in the first place that it is for the supporters of the two ancient Codices, as against the Received Text, to establish their case by a preponderance of testimony; for the burden of proof rests heavily upon them. It is for them to show, and by testimony which carries thorough conviction, that God left His people for fifteen centuries or more to the bad effects of a corrupt text, until, in fact, the chance discovery by Constantine Tischendorf, in the middle of the 19th century, of some leaves of parchment so slightly valued by their custodians that they had been thrown into the waste paper basket, and until (for some mysterious and as yet unexplained reason) the Codex Vaticanus was exhumed from its suspicious sleeping place at the papal headquarters.

It is for them to explain, if they can, the concurrence of a thousand manuscripts, widely distributed geographically, and spread over a thousand years of time, and of the many Versions and writings of "Fathers" going back to the second century of our era. That there were corrupt and defective copies in the early centuries-many of the alterations having been made with deliberate intent-is well known; and to account for the survival of a few of these (three at the most) is not a difficult matter.

Indeed there is good reason to believe that they owe their prolonged existence to the fact that they were known to be, by reason of their many defects, unfit for use.

It is easy to understand why the Codex Vaticanus Ms. is cherished at the Vatican; for its corruptions are what make it valuable to the leaders of the papal system. We can conceive therefore the satisfaction of those leaders that their highly prized Ms. has been allowed to play the leading part in the revision of the English Bible, than which there is nothing on earth they have more reason to fear. On the other hand, may not this be one of the causes why God, in His overruling providence has frustrated the attempt to displace the A.V. by a new version, based upon such a sandy foundation? But, on the other hand, the fact (as is admitted) of the existence everywhere of a Text represented now by over a thousand extant manuscripts, and agreeing with the Received Text, can be accounted for only upon the supposition that that is the true Text.

Furthermore, we have shown by what has been presented above that the two most ancient Codices exhibit clear internal evidences of their defective character; and we have shown also that, in case of the Sinaitic Ms., the thoroughly corrupt and defective work of the original scribe (or scribes) was well known to generation after generation of those through whose hands it passed.

Summary

Briefly then, to sum up the matter thus far, we observe:

1. That the most important and deplorable of the departures of the New Greek Text from the Received Text have been made with the support of less than one percent of all the available witnesses; or in other words, the readings discarded by the Revisers have the support of over 99 percent of the surviving Greek Texts (besides Versions and Fathers)

2. That the two Mss. which had the controlling influence in most of these departures are so corrupt upon their face as to justify the conclusion that they owe their survival solely to their bad reputation.

With these facts before us, and in view also of the leading part the English speaking peoples were to play in shaping the destinies of mankind during the eventful centuries following the appearance of the Version of 1611, we are justified in believing that it was through a providential ordering that the preparation of that Version was not in anywise affected by higher critical theories in general, or specifically by the two ancient Codices we have been discussing.

For when we consider what the A.V. was to be to the world, the incomparable influence it was to exert in shaping the course of events, and in accomplishing those eternal purposes of God for which Christ died and rose again and the Holy Spirit came down from heaven-when we consider that this Version was to be, more than all others combined, "the Sword of the Spirit," and that all this was fully known to God beforehand, we are fully warranted in the belief that it was not through chance, but by providential control of the circumstances, that the translators had access to just those Mss. which were available at that time, and to none others. This belief in no way conflicts with the fact that man's part in the preparation of the A.V. is marked, and plainly enough, by man's infirmities.

V. The Principle of "Ancient Evidence Only" Examined

We come now to the examination of the principle adopted by the various editors of the Greek Text of the table, a principle that was imposed upon the Revision Committee, though that imposition was accomplished in such a way (as hereinafter pointed out) that many of them apparently were not azure of it until after they disbanded.

We fully admit that the principle of following the most ancient manuscripts is, on its face, reasonable and safe; for it is indisputable that (other things being equal) the copies nearest to the original autographs are most likely to be freest from errors. If therefore it were a question whether or not we should follow, in the fashioning of a Greek Text, the earliest as against later manuscripts, there would be no "question" at all; for all would agree.

But, as me cue actually stands, it is impossible for us to follow the earliest manuscripts, for the simple reason that they no longer exist. Not a single copy of the many thousands that were made, circulated, and read in the first three centuries is known to exist today. We do have Versions and patristic quotations that date back to the second century, and these, according to the principle we are discussing, are entitled to great weight. Is it not strange therefore, that those who justify their course by appealing to, and by professing to follow blindly, that principle, should cast it aside and accept the reading of fourth century Codices, where these are in conflict with second century Versions and quotations?

Seeing then that the earliest manuscripts are no longer in existence, we cannot follow them, and hence it is clear that the problem which confronts us is one that cannot be solved by application of the simple rule we are discussing.

Briefly, the situation is this: We have on the one hand, we Greek Text of 1611 which served as the basis for the A.V.- a Text that represents and agrees with a thousand manuscript ts going back as far as the fifth century, and with Versions and quotations going back to the second. As to this there is not dispute at all; for Drs. Westcott and Hort admit the existence of this Text, and even assume that it was discussed and approved by convocations of the Eastern churches as early as the third century.

On the other hand, we have the Codices Vaticanus, Sinaiticus, and Beza, supposedly dating, as to the first two, from the fourth century, and as to the last from the sixth, which manuscripts present thousands (of divergencies (ornip sions, additions, substitutions, transpositions, and modifications) from the Received Text.

Upon such a state of things the question presented for decision is this: Shall we stand by the Received Text (accepting corrections thereof wherever they can be established by preponderating proof and putting those ancient Codices on the level of other witnesses, to be tested as to their credibility like all others)? Or shall we abandon the Textus Receptus in favor of that of Westcott and Hort, or of some other of the half dozen that profess to be shaped by the principle of following the ancient manuscripts? This is the question we propose to discuss in the present chapter.

It should be observed, before we proceed with this question, that the agreeing testimony (where they do agree) of the Vatican and Sinaitic Mss. cannot be properly regarded as having the force Of two independent witnesses; for there are sufficient evidences, both internal and external, to warrant the conclusion that these two Codices are very closely related, that they are, in fact, copies of the same original, itself a very corrupt transcript of the New Testament.

It is admitted on all hands that the Text used as the basis of the Authorized Version correctly represents a Text known to have been widely (if not everywhere) in use as early as the second century (for the Peschito and Old Latin Versions, corroborated by patristic quotations afford ample proof of that). On the other hand it is not known that the two Codices we are discussing represent anything but copies of a bad original, made worse in the copying.

Divine Safeguards to the Text

It is appropriate at this point to direct attention to the Divinely ordained means which have thus far protected the Sacred Text from serious corruption. He who gave to men the Holy Scriptures to serve throughout the age as the sure foundation of that "faith of the Son of God" which alone avails for personal salvation, and to be also the sufficient rule of life and conduct for "the household of faith," has not failed to devise effectual means for the preservation of His written Word.

The means in question are, according to (God's usual way of continuing the line of a living thing, incidental to and inherent in the thing itself, and not something extraneous thereto. For it is a part of the normal life of every individual to provide for the continuance and multiplicacation of individuals of its own kind. Thus, as the grain supplies not only bread to the eater, but also seed to the sower, so in like manner God has provided that His living Word should both feed every generation of saints, and should also increase and multiply itself. As it is written, "And the Word of God increased" (Acts 6:7); and again, "But the Word of God grew and multiplied" (Acts 12:24); and once more, "So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed" (Acts 19:20).

The means which mainly have served to accomplish the purpose referred to, are these:

1. The necessity that there should be a great and steadily increasing multiplication of copies; for this provides automatically the most effectual security imaginable against corruption of the Text.

2. The necessity that the Scriptures should be translated into divers languages. This translation of the Written Word into various tongues is but a carrying out of that which the miracle of Pentecost indicated as a distinctive characteristic of this age, namely, that everyone should hear the saving truth of God in the tongue wherein he was born. Thus, the agreement of two or more of the earliest Versions would go a long way toward the establishment of the true reading of any disputed passage.

It is appropriate at this point to direct attention to the very great value of a Version as a witness to the purity of the original Text from which it was translated. Those who undertake a work of such importance as the translation of the New Testament into a foreign language would, of course, make sure, as the very first step, that they had the best obtainable Greek Text. Therefore a Version (as the Syriac or Old Latin) of the second century is a clear witness as to the Text recognized at that early day as the true Text.

This point has an important beari
The Hebrew-Greek Key Study Bible,King James Version(RV)
NIV, NAS. Both are good translations.
NIV

The people who think that the King James version is the only trustworthy version probably also believe that the Messiah used the words "thee", "thou" and "verily".

Reading the New Testament version of the NIV for the first time was a "lightbulb illuminating moment" for me,..

I was like, "Wow!,...real people!"
Originally Posted by deflave
King James all the way for this guy.
Travis



Me too.
NIV in print. NET Bible (www.Bible.org) online.
Originally Posted by GunGeek
NIV, NAS. Both are good translations.


The NIV is an easy reading bible that is "fairly" accurate but KJV,NKJV,NASB & ESV are considered to be more word for word accurate: http://www.apbrown2.net/web/TranslationComparisonChart.htm
Originally Posted by Scotty
I prefer the KJV or the NKJVl

+1

Or the Amplified when doing a study. That version has the most words of any, but sometimes it can clarify meanings and reveal subtle nuances lost in translation from the original language.

The Amplified, reportedly, had a woman editor...

Not sure if there's a connection with that fact and the wordiness... shocked

DF
Originally Posted by 1tnhunter
Originally Posted by GunGeek
NIV, NAS. Both are good translations.


The NIV is an easy reading bible that is "fairly" accurate but KJV,NKJV,NASB & ESV are considered to be more word for word accurate: http://www.apbrown2.net/web/TranslationComparisonChart.htm


Well,...unless those folks who are making the judgements speak Aramaic, Greek, and Hebrew,.. they're not qualified to say that the King James is a more accurate translation than the NIV.

The NIV wasn't translated from the KJV.

https://www.biblegateway.com/versions/New-International-Version-NIV-Bible/

The New International Version (NIV) is a completely original translation of the Bible developed by more than one hundred scholars working from the best available Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts.

The initial vision for the project was provided by a single individual � an engineer working with General Electric in Seattle by the name of Howard Long. Long was a lifelong devotee of the King James Version, but when he shared it with his friends he was distressed to find that it just didn�t connect. Long saw the need for a translation that captured the truths he loved in the language that his contemporaries spoke.

For 10 years, Long and a growing group of like-minded supporters drove this idea. The passion of one man became the passion of a church, and ultimately the passion of a whole group of denominations. And finally, in 1965, after several years of preparatory study, a trans-denominational and international group of scholars met in Palos Heights, Illinois, and agreed to begin work on the project � determining to not simply adapt an existing English version of the Bible but to start from scratch with the best available manuscripts in the original languages.


Many good translations out there.I would hope that most people would study why they were translated the way they were and make your own decisions.
Originally Posted by Bristoe
Originally Posted by 1tnhunter
Originally Posted by GunGeek
NIV, NAS. Both are good translations.


The NIV is an easy reading bible that is "fairly" accurate but KJV,NKJV,NASB & ESV are considered to be more word for word accurate: http://www.apbrown2.net/web/TranslationComparisonChart.htm


Well,...unless those folks who are making the judgements speak Aramaic, Greek, and Hebrew,.. they're not qualified to say that the King James is a more accurate translation than the NIV.





Of course they spoke those languages, if they didn't they would not been able to translate it into English.
Originally Posted by 1tnhunter


Of course they spoke those languages, if they didn't they would not been able to translate it into English.


My point is,..they were only challenging how the more recent translations compared to the KJV.

As I said,...the NIV isn't a translation of the KJV.

Read the link I posted.
NIV...Romans 8:28 is my "personal" verse.
I really don't care for anything but the King James. I have found some of the other translations actually change the meanings of some scriptures. I actually LIKE the language of the King James. Read the 23rd Psalms and then compare to any other version for beauty of language. If the King James isn't more lyrical ( which I have always understood the Psalms were in actuality songs and poems) then I totally misunderstand the whole thing. Just my opinion of course.
KJV
Originally Posted by Hotload
KJV


it's the only one I use.
Originally Posted by Mannlicher
Originally Posted by Hotload
KJV


it's the only one I use.


Me too
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