I know there are 3 sides to every story... he said... she said.... objective reality somewhere in the middle...but if this Scout Master is even 80% accurate... the juxtaposition of this while illegals are flooding in on the Southern border makes my blood boil.

This is from Fox News:


A Boy Scout troop from the nation�s heartland is demanding answers and a U.S. senator is expressing outrage after a group of scouts was detained by Border Patrol agents and one child allegedly was held at gunpoint.

Jim Fox, the leader of the Mid-Iowa Boy Scout Troop 111, said the incident occurred earlier this month at a checkpoint along the Alaska � Canada border. The scouts and their leaders were on a 21-day trek from Iowa to Alaska � a trip that had been three years in the planning.

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As their vans were moving through a checkpoint into the United States, one of the scouts snapped a photograph. Agents stopped the van and ordered all the passengers to get out. They told the underage photographer that he had committed a federal crime.

�The agent immediately confiscated his camera, informed him he would be arrested, fined possibly $10,000 and ten years in prison,� Fox told Des Moines television station KCCI.

During the search, one of the scouts tried to retrieve a bag from the roof carrier. When he turned around, Fox said a border guard had a loaded pistol pointed at the child.

�He heard a snap of the holster, turns around, and here�s this agent, both hands on a loaded pistol, pointing at the young man�s head,� Fox told the television station.

The scoutmaster wrote a detailed account of the incident on his Facebook page. He said he tried to watch the agents search the van but was ordered to return to his vehicle. An agent followed him and told the youngsters �that the next one to leave the van would be handcuffed and detained.�

�The agent in charge informed me of the potential charges against (the) scout and informed me it is a violation of federal law for any American to take a picture of a federal agent or any federal building,� Fox wrote.

Fox said he and another member of the troop were interrogated by agents � forced to answer questions about their background.

They also wanted to know why the Boy Scouts were hauling �excessive amounts of lighters, matches and knives.�

Oh, for goodness sake, people. (Sorry, I�ll try to refrain from further editorializing.)

After a lengthy delay, the scouts were released without any charges being filed.

�The boys were unnecessarily frightened and intimidated,� Fox wrote. �When do we Americans decide enough is enough? The TSA and border guards are a valuable asset to the safety of this country, but to have such Gestapo tactics against a teenage scout is uncalled for.�

Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, agrees.

�It�s outrageous that a border patrol agent would point a gun at a boy scout just for taking a picture,� he told the television station. �It just doesn�t make sense.�

The senator�s office said they are looking into the matter.

Robert Hooper, the scout executive for the Mid-Iowa Council of the BSA, told me they, too, are upset and disturbed by the allegations.

�The guys were in scout uniforms,� he said. �I would like to know what caused this to happen. It does sound pretty extreme.�

Indeed, it does. It�s not like they were attempting to cross into the United States illegally.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection said they�ve had a chance to investigate � and they can�t find anything out of the ordinary.

�CBP takes any allegations of wrongdoing very seriously,� read their official statement. �CBP�s review of this group�s inspection, including video footage review indicates that our officer did not un-holster or handle his weapon as stated in the allegation. The review revealed nothing out of the ordinary. We have reached out to the Boy Scout troop for additional information in reference to the allegation. The video footage has been referred to CBP Internal Affairs for further review.�

So, what we have here is an old-fashioned case of he said, he said � or to be more accurate � the Boys Scouts said, the feds said.

In cases like this, the quickest way to determine who is being truthful is to look at the video. So I emailed U.S. Customs and Border Protection and officially requested a copy of the video.

My request was denied.

I also asked for a copy of the statute that criminalizes Photography 101. I�ve yet to receive a reply.

Fox is still fired up over how his scouts were treated � and I can�t say I blame him.

�This was an illegal search and intimidation of Americans returning to their home country,� he said.

So let�s review, good readers.

While hordes of illegals are stampeding across our southern border unimpeded, federal agents along our northern border detained and harassed a group of law-abiding American Boy Scouts.

I wonder what kind of merit badge they�ll get for that?

Pretty messed up, even if only 1/2 true.

Not seeing what the officers did wrong even if the scout tale is true.

Please explain. kwg

He is just a troll saying whatever he thinks will cause a problem.

Well Scouts are taught to be honest....

Federal Employee.... well the IRS scandal should answer that question....or about anything said by the Obama Administration...

also under the Obama Administration, Illegal Aliens are politically correct.... Boy Scouts are NOT so politically correct, since they have been resistant to having Gay Pedophiles being allowed to be Scouting leaders...

The Schittt never ends...

The Canuck border agents ae usually pretty easy going and affable. Unless its a chick, then all bets are off. Some things are universal.

Coming back into the states? 90+% dick heads. It'd be funny if the lines weren't so long. They remind me of the TSA.

You are crossing at the wrong places.

They apparently didn't want their pictures taken and they are free to use force anytime they feel their life is in danger or they want someone to comply with their desires. What do you think is wrong with that?

Sumas is where I cross most often.

Never seen so many people act like they hate their job. My garbageman smiles more.

Must be a chitty life.

Sumas is not bad as some, Osoyoos is better.

Never been through there.

I head through Sumas to fish in Chilliwack. Great town.

Back to the OP.

Yes, if that is remotely accurate, somebody needs a kick in the jewels.

They can be pretty brave and arrogant when facing a group of Boy Scouts, but turn tail and run at the sight of a Mescan.

Typical feral govt goons.

We're talking Boy Scouts.... WTH did the Border Patrol have to hide that they didn't want pictures of....

and a camera is putting their lives in danger or their jobs in danger for not doing what the hell they are suppose to be doing...

They threaten and strong arm Boy Scouts to 'do what they want them to do....' they forget how to just ask nicely?

Border Patrol does not patrol the Alaska/Canada border for starters.. This would either be US or Canadian CUSTOMS officers..

The douchebag reporter didn't do his homework.

sherp uber-sarcasm double talk

Um, a lot. They can take their desires and [bleep] themselves with them.

DHS probably has the Boy Scouts on a terrorist watch list:

Intolerant of LGBT.
God in literature.
Uniforms.
Sexist.
Outdoors training.

Yes, in Obamerika Boy Scouts are terrorists.

If only all those mexicans were carrying cameras.

I'd like to see how this shakes out. The fact that CBP is saying they've got video that the cop didn't unholster is interesting.

The "hears a holster snap and sees a gun pointed at his head" seems pretty dramatically written. And that's all an account of what the teen reported, not what the adult saw. I hope it doesn't come out that the kid made anything up out of spite. But I also hope it's not true. It's a lose-lose either way.

Assuming they have to follow the same laws as the rest of us, I guess I can do the same thing, if I don't like somebody taking my picture....

They didn't want pictures taken and that is all you need to know. Like all officers they have the guns to use on civilians to maintain compliance. They didn't shoot them which is part of their perks so what they did(if the scout tale is true) is their version of asking nicely. Get it? Got it? Good.

Police are not subject to the same laws they enforce on civilians.

Why do you hate police?

It was the picture that got things going wrong. Recently, my sister told me of a trip she was on and when approaching the border the group leader warned everybody that they must not look at the agents, they are not to speak to the agents and they are certainly not to take any pictures of the agents..

I thought that was really weird... But I guess it has to do with security in some way..

Must be an old school Customs officer if he's still using a holster with a snap.



Travis

Did you, and or your parents have any other progeny/siblings that lived?..

They are all twerps too and live in the Tompkins Square area....

Screw you douche bag! You wanna live in the police state new world order, knock yourself out.. don't try and convince the rest of us that it is the "in thing" to do...

Personally I'll trust the word of a Scout before I trust the word of some pompous Government Goon with a chip on his shoulder and an identity crisis...who was his next customer? Draw down on Grandma next because she was 'threatening his existence' by having a knitting needle in her bag with her knitting?

You are either the biggest Dumbbasss on this forum or just a troll who is camping out here for the time being to harrass other people, until you get booted from this site and move on to another...trying to justify your otherwise useless existence...

welfare rat with too much time on his hands and plenty of dope for his bong... GFY Douchebag

That is not possible, as I've been led to believe cameras are not allowed.

I wonder how many kids in the troop want to grow up and become border agents now?

Not to rile any feathers and it's no secret what I do but here is my take on the whole situation.

They were wrong to confiscate the camera. Look on youtube and you will see people video taping agents because they hate checkpoints (it is an inconvenience to they illegal activities in my opinion). It's not too difficult to ask the scout what he took a picture of and if the agents face was on it, ask him to erase it because he did not authorize his image to be used. Done deal no need to go further.
If a scout left the area and attempted to grab a bag from the van or roof of the van as stated, how would you feel about that if you are an agent doing a search of the vehicle? Was he grabbing it because he had drugs and didn't want the agent to find it? Was he carrying a gun that he either didn't want the agent to find or was going to possibly use it? Or was he simply just grabbing his bag for a snack or an extra memory card or extra jacket to keep warm? No one knows the answer to that and officer safety is a big concern as is the chance that the scout maybe trying to hide something. Did he go too far? Posssibly if he did infact pull his weapon. But the whole gun pointing thing would have been avoided if the scout had not tried to retrieve a bag during a search.
We don't have all the details like why did he want his bag, how old the scout was, what was the purpose of the search. the story is sketchy. Those are answers the video can show and address.

Not saying it's right, but when I'm at work, I don't like anyone behind me or behind my partner, its a safety risk. I also don't let anyone go thru their bags, once again because it is a safety risk no matter how young or old they are. It's sad that we live in an era where you don't know who is a risk. I remember when I was in 7th grade and hearing about schoolmates doing drugs and drinking. Now it seems to be a common practice. Reading about how some kids go off the deep end and use weapons. We are living in an era where being vigilant is important. It's sad if you think about it.

Like I said, I see a lot of things wrong with how the situation was handled, but can understand why they don't want someone trying to get to their bag during a search. If he did pull his weapon, yeah the guy is a little too high strung and needs an eval. If they threatened the scouts, yeah they need to be better trained on how to handle a situation when a picture of them is taken. There is a lot where more training or better people skills and communication would serve in aiding to prevent situations like this.
be nice to know the truth and see that tape.

Anyways that's my take on it. guess i'll wait to be called an ahole for thinking safety first regardless of who it is.

Kique

Same over here.

At the risk of you just dismissing it as me calling you names:

You misunderstand for which who's safety border agents or any other LEOs are meant to exist. They (you) are meant to exist for citizens (the scouts in this case) safety.

They (you) must not shift the risks of the job to citizens nor create new risks for citizens by inverting the priorities and placing officer safety above citizens' safety and rights.

Let's extend LEO priorities and actions to another profession, one that actually is pretty dangerous, as an example.

If the electric lineman that came to connect your new house's power thought and worked like LEOs, he would make you climb the pole and connect to the live lines while he yelled instructions from the ground.

The scout could have been told to leave the bag alone.No need for a gun.That is child abuse as far as I am concerned.You dont threaten children with guns.

I just can't believe the story as written. It doesn't make sense. No Federal Agency that I'm aware of uses snap holsters. And no, I don't believe they can just wear what they want

Heard the snap? Even if he had a snap holster, how many kids would have alerted to that sound? Not many I bet.

No pictures? People take pictures of them all the time. Video too. We've had several on this site of check points. Then there's hundreds of hours of news footage of check points, border crossings, and Federal buildings. Just in the last year.

And it seems (correct me if I'm wrong) that the wrong agency is named?

I smell BS

I'm not saying that the agent was right in what he did, because he wasn't. But isn't it the feeling of most people that they want to return home at the end of the day? I know I want to come home safe everyday, so I take ever precaution I can. not knowing what the scout was trying to get out of his bag throws up a red flag does it not? And if it doesn't you guys are high.
He had no right pulling his gun if in fact he did pull his gun. That was excessive and he should be disciplined for it and better educated in those scenarios. A simple very command would have been enough force, anything more is wrong.
As far as the picture taking goes, yeah thats bs because it happens all the time. So I'm not sure if the scout leader is lying of if the agent was full of it.

But for everyone to assume that an officer, agent, whatever should not use any sort of safety precaution to ensure he goes home at the end of the day is mind boggling. Obviously he used excessive force which is uncalled for, we all agree on that, but now someone is saying the agent has no right to his own safety is hogwash.

kique

Yes - they are. You are wrong.

You are intentionally misunderstanding.

Continuing the analogy

Yes, it would be 'hogwash' to ask that the lineman to not use a climber's belt or insulated tools; but if he insists on making the customers climb the poles he's more dangerous than he is useful.

You LEOs insist on 'making the customers climb the poles.'

At least the Border Porker went home safely to his family, that's all that matters here, the rest is not relevant.

How are LEO's making customers climb the pole?
because he didn't want the scout to grab a bag, that he did not know what it contained?
What if the bag contained some kind of weapon or if it contained drugs? Then what would be reported on the news outlets?

Again the agents were stupid to stop em for taking a pic and confiscating the camera. a simple please erase my picture as I do not want my image used. That would have been enough.
Again the agent should not have pulled him weapon on the scout trying to get to his bag. A simple, stand back you can not get that bag while I am conducting a search would have been enough.

Im not denying that they took the situation too far, what I am saying is the agent by not knowing what the scout had in the bag, as a safety precaution has a right to ask the kid to not touch the bag and stand back. He does not however have the right to pull his weapon.
The agent also has a right to not have his picture taken if he doesn't want it taken, however in my opinion he was wrong to confiscate the camera.

A lot of the story seems fishy to me and I would hope a gun was not really drawn. If it was really drawn then there is a lot more issues to deal with than just a hand slap.

I do some volunteer work searching for lost people. We have a mix of civilians working with LE agents from a variety of departments. In April I worked with a team of dog handlers along with 2 guys who were federal agents. At the end of the day we were going to do a group photo and the 2 agents told us it was against their REGULATIONS, NOT AGAINST THE LAW to pose in such a photo. But it was OK if they just happened to be photographed while working.

I understand the concern of being targeted. But if the same rule applies to border agents there was no law broken in just taking a photo of someone.

An unfortunate event if true...

Sad world if we are hassling boy scouts, heck I grew up with cubs and scouts.

On a lighter note, my brother and I like to go down to the Cabelas in Lacey, Washington and look around every so often. Coming back one time we were quizzed at the border by the cute young female boder person (CYFBP). I had picked up a Wyoming bone saw to replace one I had lost that year.

CYFBP "Anything to declare?)

Me "Yes maam, a bone saw."

CYFBP "What's a bone saw?"

ME "When hunting, after you take an animal you have to cut it up and quarter it to carry it out. I use the bone saw to cut through the spine, the pelvis, and a couple of other spots."

CYFBP (with look of growing disgust on her face)"You mean like cutting the animal up? eeewwww!"

Me "This a good one, comes in really handy, just lost the other one on my last hunt."

CYFBP "Go, just go, go!"

Me "Have a nice day maam."

I'm confused. Was this a US Border Patrol Agent, or a Canadian Agent? If it's a US Agent, he needs to be put in chains.

Chains? No, too dignified, an Auguste clown outfit and makeup will do, for two weeks, on duty, unarmed.

They claim at the end of the article that this was an illegal search.... perhaps I am wrong but aren't searches conducted crossing the border legal?

The ignore function works for the B.S.
They must have been some shifty Boy Scouts for them to act this way,if they did.

Most triple-retention duty holsters have snaps. The Safariland SS III has two. I can assure you that when I unsnap, they can be heard.

I'm not sure what the feral govt uses or which agencies you are aware of, but if they are a uniformed agency and following any sort of sensible firearms doctrine they are using a retention duty holster of some sort.

The suits? Probably not.

Hello Mr. Troll
I spent 32 years as an LEO and I never once arbitrarily unholstered and pointed my duty gun at someone for less than a suspected felony, especially a boy scout in scout clothing. There is nothing in any law federal or state that I know of that prevents a citizen from taking a picture of an LEO regardless of the employer.

If what the scouts are saying is correct the officer in this situation needs some serious discipline. Not allowing the boy scouts and the leaders to witness the search and deleting the pictures in my opinion is not only disrespectful but is unlawful. The officer destroyed evidence when he took the camera and deleted the pictures.

The bottom line is they ARE NOT free to use what ever force they want when it comes to Americans returning to America. Chuck Grassley is following up and I'm pretty sure he will get the truth unless of course the Border Guards have already destroyed evidence. Then it's word against word. I have to admit, I would probably take the boy scouts word for what happened.

kwg

Officer safety is the only thing that matters. The only people who disagree with that are cop-hating liberals/libertarians(like there is any difference between the 2.) Maybe when you hit 30 you will change your outlook?

I bet the good police in your area were glad to see you go since you wouldn't back them up on incidents like this.

This thread is very entertaining, I love watching idiots that don't realize what Sherp is doing to them.

Showing cop haters for what they are. Police officers on scene supported each others' actions, why don't the civilian scouts and several here?

They weren't. Genuine good guy and good officer. Never met him, but know enough citizens and officers that know him well.

Good police aren't liabilities.

Good luck to you avoiding what you're obviously asking for.....

I am not seeing any bad police or police who are liabilities except those officers who fail to aid their fellow officers.

Classic example why we need far less govt and govt employees. Both suck.......

They said that to George Zimmerman too
How old were these "children"?

I hope you mean we need to take agencies like the BLM and shift their budget and manpower in to the FBI, military or other armed branches and increase the budget and number of agents/soldiers as a way to make government smaller.

Doesn't matter, even a civilian toddler is a threat which is why agencies need the No Hesitation targets.

sherp,
officer safety is very important, but so is following the levels of force. I myself am perfectly fine with the agent not wanting that scout to get to his bag. What I am not ok with is him going to the extreme and pulling his weapon on the scout (if infact the story is true and the gun was pulled)
In this situation the most force the agent should have used when the scout went for his bag was a stern verbal command.

i'd still like to see the truth of the whole incident.

Are ya'll really this naive?

Maybe we need a sticky that Sherp is playing a role whenever he posts.

I took the liberty of editing your post for brevity and to pare it down to the only thing that matters.

I am not playing. The only role is that of a good Conservative police supporter.

Bite me.


kwg

Sounds like you were like the turncoat "officers" mentioned here:

http://reason.com/archives/2010/10/18/americas-most-successful-stop