In reading the stop light thread I was wondering if there was ever a reason to give consent to have your vehicle voluntarily searched. What could be the downside of making the Leo produce a search warrant outlining what exactly they were looking for?

I'm not trying to bash cops but truly curious about what possible benefit it could be to me to consent to a search?

If you're hiding something they'll find it. If you're not hiding anything it'll waste your time. Lose / Lose

only if you have nothing to hide, saying no will make them just search harder and do more damage to your car

I was under the impression that a warrant was pretty specific and not an open ticket to look for anything and everything. How many times can you go to a judge for a warrant and come back empty handed on a fishing expedition?

That seems fair.

If they think they have probable cause and you say no, they'll impound the vehicle and take you into custody until they can get a search warrant.

If you say yes and they find something, it'll be the same outcome.

If they don't think there's probable cause and you haven't acted like a jerk, they probably won't ask to search in the first place.

couple years back, I denied a local Sheriff Deputy a look see in my 4Runner. He said he could get a warrant. Told the lad to go ahead, as I was retired, had no place to go that afternoon, had a book to read, and a bottle of water.
His Sargent told him just don't bother, and they left.

Who knows. I would never let somebody search my car without a warrent. That is based on all the advice I have ever been given, wether it was a lawyer or police friends.

I know that Rocky and I have never been asked to search in my 45+ years of driving but it's a different situation with my kids. They seem to get stopped for virtually nothing and are always asked to search. Nothing has ever been found. Just seems like fishing to me.

Hypothetical for the "if you have nothing to hide" crowd, you buy a used car and after you consent to a search the officer finds some marijuana that the previous teenage owner left you as a present in a tiny crevice. Now you're going to jail.....

I would absolutely positively never let an officer search my vehicle, home, etc. without a valid and signed search warrant.

Smart fellow. How is the optic working for your brother?

I can't find my brass knuckles anywhere.
I'm afraid they are in the truck somewhere.
LEO could probably find 'em for me.

4321:
He likes the ACOG quite a bit. I had a little tomfoolery in getting it shipped his way, but that's USPS. The seller is a stand-up guy, despite his views on fitness

Now if I could only convince his wife to be a republican....

I've heard of a cop that always finds 2 pot seeds whenever he wants just like magic. Him and guys like him are the reason that you do not want to give permission to anybody to poke around in your car.

The SCOTUS has ruled that a warrant isn't needed for a vehicle, just consent or probable cause.

257wby: I have been driving vehicles for 51 years now and drive more than 95% of the citizens in our United States - I have NEVER been asked to have my vehicle searched.
I have been stopped maybe 6 times in all those many hundreds of thousands of miles of driving - and never received a citation, only warnigs for various minor offenses (bad order tail-lights, headlights etc!).
AND... I do NOT commit crimes or indulge in criminal activities/conspiracies so in the extremely remote possibility of a circumstance where a Law Enorcement Officer of any type asked to search me or my vehicle or my home I would tell them to go right ahead!
This site (24hourcampfire) seems to be getting more and more paranoid and anti-establishment types on it every year - thats NOT a good thing and is quite puzzling to me.
I admit that I go out of my way of recent to buy non-registered firearms (obama and holder proof) as opposed to 4473'ed guns but that is not paranoia nor is it a crime!
This is a thought out and non-criminal policy of mine.
If you are not a criminal (doper, smuggler, burglar, rapist, muderer etc etc etc!) then what possible harm would befall you if you allowed a search of yourself, your vehicle or your home?
Paranoia runs deep - as the old anti-establishment song goes!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

And since I think a warrant requires probable cause, they're either gonna search you on the spot or not. The "I can get a warrant" is just a threat...

If they're really serious about wanting to get probably cause to search your car, they'll bring in a dog.

PS: Or they can always keep you overnight for whatever reason. When they impound the car they can do an inventory - and an inventory is not a search.

I gave consent once.

Stopped by female officer and told her that I had something in my front pocket.

No the other front pocket.....

That is because there is thin line between anarchy and libertarianism and unfortunately, most anarchists believe they're libertarians.

I got nothing to hide and have owned my vehicles for over ten years each. I would let them search but get in writing they will put it back the way it was before said search commences!

SPOT ON.

If you are driving commercial then consent or go to jail. Any officer, ant time, no cause needed. Get your CDL and you become a sub form of human filth whit no rights.

I'll concede 257 Wby's point: I have never been asked. Hell, I've only been stopped once in the half century since I was 16. And that cop noted the concealed carry notation on my license, told me to be a little more aware of the speed limit (I think I was 12 mph over on a strange road) and waved me on.

If I were stopped and asked, it would probably depend on how much of that day I was willing to lose.

Never been asked for a search, but would never consent. I have nothing to hide, but they also have no reason to remotely suspect me of anything. My rap sheet consists of exactly 1 speeding ticket in the last several decades. So consenting would have absolutely zero benefit for me, and they'd probably manage to find my lost Mepps and then need a tetanus shot.

Never. No searches without a valid warrant.

Whatever you are doing appears to be working for you.

If probable cause is all that's needed, then why ask for permission?

Because you don't have probable cause.

You go out of your way to buy non-registered firearms. That isn't paranoia nor a crime, Okay.
(**See Second Amendment)

A law abiding citizen taking exception to having their private property searched for no other reason than they can be searched, is neither paranoia nor a crime either.
(**See Fourth Amendment)

What's good for the goose...

PC has to be identified prior to the search?

Right, and sometimes we ask for consent, even when we have probable cause, just for the dialog.

Yes, unless it's consensual.

Cause trying to invent new and entertaining "probable causes" makes their heads hurt?

Ok that makes sense. So you give the driver a form outlining the reason for probable cause and the specifics of what you're looking for?

I wouldn't care but I'd insist on retaining control of any donuts that might be on board.

And they'd have to promise not to spill my beer.

I say always demand a search warrant. Without a search warrant they could always plant evidence to entrap you. Never assume the cops are your friend. Cops always serve their master, the State.

Flame away!!!!!!

No, when we have probable cause, we remove them from the vehicle and search. I don't know about other agencies, but we usually have the driver sign a form when consent is given, just in case the recorders don't work. (Which is often.)

Okay, I don't consent and you don't have probable cause. Now what?

No flame...but there is never need to obtain a search warrant on a vehicle that is currently being operated.

Seems to me that cop number 2 is already doing an illegle search by walking around the passenger side and peaking in while cop number 1 is keeping you busy asking for license and ins card.

All true libertarians are anarchists. But seeing as how few on here know what a true libertarian anarchist is it makes sense that most on here would hate both.

But you don't understand, Cap'n............... he WANTS to be "flamed", not taught.

I go back to the donut shop.

99% of the time they let you go without a search, though they may delay you for a while. 1% of the time they bring a dog in. If the dog indicates (or the handler says he indicates), expect a seriously messy car when you're done.

So really a vehicle is open game. Good to know. I would guess that reasonable suspicion could escalate to probable cause when something is found. And if nothing is found the an apology is issued and both parties leave on a handshake?

Not only that but if you use a service station or garage for servicing or repairing your rig someone could put something illegal in your rig without you knowing it.

Trust but verify.

Anything in "plain view" is not considered a search.

OK 'nuther question....... I don't consent, but you claim to have PC to believe I have a fully automatic rifle in my pickup, so you handcuff me and search my pickup, finding no contraband of any sort.

What's the next move?

Ah ha, we have come so far since the founding of the government and the 4th Amendment.

Federalism always leads to tyranny sooner or later.

So say I have a lockbox in my vehicle, is that part of the vehicle as far as a search is concerned?

I don't know about the handshake part.

No. Reasonable suspicion is a reason to detain and investigate, but probable cause must be present for a search. The thank you and handshake are usually reserved for a consentual encounter. With very few exceptions, PC doesn't exist unless the person is a crook.

Only the things that you consent to be searched may be searched, unless PC exists, then it doesn't matter. The "exigency" exists because of the mobility.

so it's night and the only way he can see in is to use a flashlight and that's ok?

Say an officer has probable cause to search my vehicle, and I've got a lockbox in the vehicle. What's the order of operations there?

He asks, I say no, he gets a warrant?

Yes.

What about an RV you are living in?

My goodness gracious.....

A COP DOESNT NEED A WARRANT TO SEARCH YOUR CAR. Consent or PC are all he needs.
He asks, you say no, he goes back to the donut shop.

He can search it, or seize it and obtain a warrant. Sometimes we encounter things on the road that are no practical to search on the scene. Remember, the key phrase is probable cause. If we tear things up and don't find what we're looking for, we are liable.

Depends if it's rollin'.

Is that pretty much standard procedure in the West?

taser

Powell and Bluedreaux, you guys should be getting .50 cents per/ question answered.

That's time to do what we call "Dust 'em off and send 'em on their way." No good business though, because technically you were arrested when you were handcuffed, and we can't un-arrest people. It's better than arresting them for nothing though.

Put a FOP sticker in the back glass and they wont ask to search your car. Lmao. Seriously, Lacking probable cause or a warrant, a vehicle can only be searched with consent or a proper storage inventory. If you dont want to consent, then dont..but be respectful. In most cases, the officer should be equally respectful to you and your constitutional rights which they are sworn to uphold. If you are uncertain, ascertain if you under arrest or free to leave. If you ask, most officers should also allow you to consult with an attorney prior to granting consent. Most of the attorneys i know would probably advise against consent. Dont be offended by the officer asking either, they're not trying to accuse you of being a criminal...just doing their job and what they are trained to do. Vehicles are used as instruments in a whole host of crimes. Likewise, they are also used to conceal and transport ALOT of contraband, illegal monies and other proceeds of crime.

The balancing act between individual rights and laws (and the enforcement thereof) is not easy. Its also constantly evolving. Looking back, i sure wish someone would have searched Timothy McVeigh's vehicle prior to OK City. Sad, but its good vs evil in this world! And those on the good side unfortunately must be willing to bend a little on personal liberties for the sake of a civilized society. Our laws and system of govt is not perfect, and should be closely scrutinized. However, what's the alternative?

Liable for what?

Thanks.

Depends on state law. Registered as a "house car" in the state I usta live in, only the drivers compartment could be searched without a warrant signed by a judge.
Check local law.

Damages caused to peoples stuff when they didn't commit a crime. For instance, we can call the fire department to a scene, in what has been determined to be a reasonable amount of time, to get into just about anything. Your "lockbox" for example. If whatever we had probable cause to find wasn't in it...we bought it.

I'm just telling them what is Constitutional. There is no telling what every little jurisdiction restricts it's people to doing.

Who has 2-5 hours to hurry up and wait for a dog or warrant to show up at the scene?

However, if you refuse, they may call in K9 unit, get a "positive signal" from the dog and then impound your car while they get a search warrant. This wastes even more time.

Probably the best strategy is repeatedly ask if you are being detained, and if the answer is no, get your ass out of their before the dog shows up.

Was/is calioto state law.

I am respectful to the police and have never had a fine I didn't earn. However I deeply resent the attitude of suspicion. Just because you are a cop, and i am not, don't make you good or me bad. Locals set up on a business road and do paper checks. Pisses me off, I feel like 1942 Berlin on a train platform. Is that not fishing. If my plates are expired pull me over but don't pull me over to see what you can find. Most of the officers here seem fine, but the guy that keeps posting the SCOTUS finding seems to maybe like the power?

This 'spains it pretty well.

______

The motor vehicle exception was first established by the United States Supreme Court in 1925, in Carroll v. United States. The motor vehicle exception allows an officer to search a vehicle without a search warrant as long as he or she has probable cause to believe that evidence or contraband is located in the vehicle. The exception is based on the idea that there is a lower expectation of privacy in motor vehicles due to the regulations under which they operate. Additionally, the ease of mobility creates an inherent exigency to prevent the removal of evidence and contraband. In Pennsylvania v. Labron the U.S. Supreme Court, stated, �If a car is readily mobile and probable cause exists to believe it contains contraband, the Fourth Amendment permits the police to search the vehicle without more.�

The scope of the search is limited to only what area the officer has probable cause to search. This area can encompass the entire vehicle including the trunk. The motor vehicle exception in addition to allowing officers to search the vehicle also allows officers to search any containers found inside the vehicle that could contain the evidence or contraband being searched for. The objects searched do not need to belong to the owner of the vehicle. In Wyoming v. Houghton, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the ownership of objects searched in the vehicle is irrelevant to the legitimacy of the search.

Some states' constitutions require officers to show there was not enough time to obtain a warrant. With the exception of states with this requirement, an officer is not required to obtain a warrant even if it may be possible to do so.

In United States v. Ludwig, the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals found that a search warrant is not required even if there is little or no risk of the vehicle being driven off. The court stated, �If police have probable cause to search a car, they need not get a search warrant first even if they have time and opportunity.� In United States v. Johns, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld a search of a vehicle that had been seized and was in police custody for three days prior to the search. The court stated, �A vehicle lawfully in police custody may be searched on the basis of probable cause to believe it contains contraband, and there is no requirement of exigent circumstances to justify such a warrantless search.�

The motor vehicle exception does not only apply to automobiles. The U.S. Supreme Court in California v. Carney found the motor vehicle exception to apply to a motor home. The court did however, make a distinction between readily mobile motor homes and parked mobile homes. A number of factors including, the home being elevated on blocks, whether the vehicle is licensed, and if it is connected to utilities determine if the motor vehicle exception applies. In United States v. Johns, the motor vehicle exception was applied to trucks. In United States v. Forrest it was applied to trailers pulled by trucks. United States v. Forrest applied the exception to boats and in United States v. Hill to house boats. In United States v. Nigro and United States v. Montgomery the motor vehicle exception was found to also include airplanes.

It is what I am expert at. What is your expertise? I may need to know something about it. It's what friends do for each other.

WTF are you smoking, T?

Would you prefer to hear the wrong answer or the right one?



Travis

Of course, that's why 30 minutes has been determined (last I heard) to a be reasonable amount of time to detain somebody.

IF THEY HAVE PROBABLE CAUSE THEY WON'T NEED A SEARCH WARRANT.

Does it count if it's the same answer over and over again?

I got my drivers license when I was 16 and will turn 66 in May. Only once has an officer asked if I would open the trunk. I said yes and he was not the least bit interested in the shotgun laying there. Except for tier and jack the shotgun was all that was there.

I have had my truck searched several time coming back into the US from Canada but other that the crossings and the roadblock looking for a kidnapped girl no officer has ever asked to see anything but my license, registration and proof of insurance. My only ticket was from making a illegal left turn on my seventeenth birthday. That includes my seven years as a truck driver.

Yup. Apparently, a dog with a bad nose qualifies as probable cause.....

You're doing a lot better than me.

College Station PD wouldn't hire because I had so many tickets on my record.

For some reason that cracked me up.

Depends on the judge. Some are very lenient.

I answer no to search. I been driving for years and have only 1 speeding ticket. I would worry about the guy who says he can find something if he looks or wants to. Most I have is hunting equipment and fishing equipment.

You need a new keyboard? I can get you a great IBM deal?

IF THEY HAVE PROBABLE CAUSE WHAT WILL THEY NEED IN ORDER TO SEARCH A VEHICLE?



Everyone answer, all together now...

this'll wig them right out:


The Supreme Court decision Illinois v. Gates[17] lowered the threshold of probable cause by ruling that a "substantial chance" or "fair probability" of criminal activity could establish probable cause. A better-than-even chance is not required.

I have not read the entire thread so I apologize in advance if I repeat something others have said.

I work in VT and we DO NOT have a motor vehicle exception. We can't search a vehicle without a warrant or WRITTEN COSENT. State law offers a greater level protection than federal law here. If consent is granted we have to show we had reasonable suspicion to ask.

The effect here has been the end of fishing, or asking just out of curiosity or on a whim. What this means for the driver is if consent is not given there is a very high chance your vehicle will be impounded until a warrant is obtained from or denied by a judge. In my particular county judges only hear warrant requests during court hours unless it is an emergency. So, if your car is towed on Friday night it would likely be there until Monday evening.

Several times the length of time from the vehicle being seized to the warrant being granted has been challenged in court. So far those challenges have been unsuccessful.

No one can really give great advice on this. You have to make your own informed decision based on where you are what you are or are not doing.

-Z

And if your coming back from the woods or shooting range and you have multiple weapons in your vehicle. What now?

2 keyboards OTW!! Compliments of BLUE!!

In South Carolina a simple hunting license takes care of that!!!

It came up in every interview I had. The winning answer was, "Look, I used to drive really fast. But then I got married and had a baby and couldn't afford any more speeding tickets, you'll notice I haven't had any since I was married. So you're getting the best of both worlds....I know how to drive fast but I can slow down when my boss tells me to."

They cracked up and offered me the job.

I think the best way to handle it, is if you get stopped and they ask for consent to search, jist drop it in gear and haul azz put of there. That will put to rest any question of PC for either party

And the guy who pulled over and then ran will be on the next available news broadcast.

And she came up empty handed eh?

Question ...

If probable cause is all that's needed to search a vehicle then why would a cop even bother to ask for consent?

I'm 51 years old and have never been asked to search my car including the one time they should have of course I have only been pulled over once after my teen leadfoot years.

So what your saying.......

But, what is the rule at the Canuckian border?

So, no warrant is needed. Only PC. So, my answer is no you do not have my consent. Am I free to go?

If they have PC, they're going to search. If not and were just fishing, I'm on my way. I understand cops fish a little here and there and we are expected to be ok with that. What I don't understand is when cops get their hackles up when someone takes offense to a question that has within it an inference that I've done something wrong. As a fairly straight-forward, law-abiding person, I do take offense when someone implies I've done something wrong when I haven't. If I deserve a ticket for some infraction, so be it, but it ends there.

All bets are off there. You have no right to refuse and are at the border and customs guys mercy. Been searched once going into Canada and had to totally inventory the contents of my truck one other time and provide a bond for the value.

A buddy of mine that's an FBI agent told me to never consent to a search if asked. He said they only ask when they're fishing, if they had probable cause they wouldn't ask, they'd just search it.

Don't think that they'll go easy on you if you consent to a search either. He told me a story about pulling over a local drug dealer/punk when he was a deputy. He and his partner asked to search the guy's car, a typical pimped out cadillac or something like that. The guy said sure, go ahead, knowing that he wasn't carrying anything that day. They ripped the car apart from top to bottom and left it that way. After they were done they told the guy as he was standing there about to cry "you were right, we didn't find anything".

The only right answer if they ask if they can search your car is "NO". If they've got probable cause they'll search it anyway. If they still want to search it they'll make up some BS story giving them probable cause, and the judge will take their word for it if it comes down to their word vs. yours because the courts aren't really unbiased. In any case, there's absolutely nothing to gain by agreeing to it. They're not going to nominate you for citizen of the year and let you into the free donut club for agreeing to a search.

Sure there is,.....if somebody has a gun to your head and says that they're gonna blow your brains all over the neighborhood unless you let them search your car it might be the prudent choice.

Doesn't matter whether it's a cop, a hood rat, a Pentacostal minister, or Jerry Lee Lewis,...

Other than that, I can't think of a good reason to allow some stranger to paw through your possessions.

I pulled up to an OHP checkpoint one night and was ask by a Hi-Po if I had any objections to a search of my vehicle, I said, hell no if I can watch you.

He said, what's a matter, dont you trust me? I said, HELL NO!!!!! they laughed and waved me on.

Customs guys are different, they own you. The constitution doesn't apply to you until you're back in the U.S. and you're not back in the U.S. until they say you are. You haven't seen someone on a power trip until you get a customs agent that thinks they're God. I work for a cargo airline and we had a female customs agent assigned to our Anchorage AK facility that took it upon herself to make every one of our pilot's coming from overseas into Anchorage's life miserable, and she succeeded for a couple of years. Enough guys complained for long enough that she finally got transferred to some backwater village, but she was hell on wheels for a couple of years.

I get stopped at least once or twice a year. I haven't gotten a ticket in a long time though. I'm lucky that way.

I've told this story to several LEO friends and they all get pissed about it because they're good guys. I was driving back to the Black Hills from Oklahoma. I bought some BBQ and it was in a small cooler on the passenger seat. I was driving through Nebraska and was doing 8 or so miles over the speed limit and got pulled. The officer asked what was in the cooler. I told him BBQ. He got a big grin on his face and said "I bet you got beer in there. What's really in there?" I said it was really BBQ. He said "How about you show it to me and if it's BBQ I'll give you a warning. If it's not I'll write you for 10 over." I showed him the BBQ and got a warning. LEO's that I've told that to say that's wrong. That he can't entice me to give up a search with the bait of a warning. I didn't care, I had BBQ in the cooler.

Bob

So she's here in Kenai?

The rule at the Canuckian border for me, having crossed probably 10-12 times only, is that coming into the US they were much more azzholes than us going into Canada.

And yes, we are US Citizens..

I'm not sure, I can ask next time I'm up there and find out for you. Kenai's too warm for her sterling personality though, I'm thinking somewhere like Barrow would be a better fit for her.

'twas a joke, sir.

Careful, ltp.

That's gonna get thrown out.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/08pdf/07-542.pdf

Just because an officer asks to search your vehicle doesn't mean he has probable cause, but is you give consent, you loose the opportunity to argue the point in court...

It is never advantageous to relinquish any of your rights when dealing with those with power or want to control.

That's good advice. We have plenty officers in which that is their only job...stop every violation they see on the Interstate and contact the drivers. They ask a series of very simple questions, depending on the driver, usually something like "Where have you been? Where are you going? Where you from?" etc. Most stops last about 30 seconds before the officer either sends the driver on their way with a warning or it is obvious that something is wrong with their story. The challenge is never spotting somebody that is doing something illegal, it's determining what it is. The guy who has a bunch of unpaid parking tickets acts just like the one who has his wife in the trunk. They are called Highway Interdiction Officers and before everybody calls BS on the tactic, it the method in which most major criminals are arrested.

Police will search your vehicle if they want to just like they will have sex with you if they want to and there isn't an officer who can stay on the force in the country who won't assist them when they do it either.

Hopefully they will respect your right to not consent and follow the law and let you continue on your way. If not record if possible and follow up with civil suit. GW

And just how does a search warrant prevent evidence from being planted? I'm new at this.

Not me. Just a GFY and I'm off.

No. Very few, if any, say "goodness gracious". Only the very nice ones who have good raisin'. And there are not many donut shops in the West. They go to the bar and swear like sailors.

That's why I always ride a horse to town. Have yet to see a cop that has a pair of shoulder high latex gloves to search inside my horse.

I have a pre requisition before I will consent to a search. I request a formal statement in writing that I get to fully search the officers vehicle prior to him searching mine. If he does so I will return the the right of request of search with their supervisor on scene. Otherwise no consent will be given. Only fair. GW

I never cease to be amazed how SCOTUS has scrapped the Bill of Rights especially the 4th and 5th Amendments.

Quite frankly you are right. Even with a search warrant they could plant evidence. Sneaky them bastoids.

It's SOP where I live for the cops to ask kids if they can search their car. I mean, ask, get told no and let go. It's pure fishing.

Not calling BS, but I heard most that are hard to catch are caught from a relationship ending, then a woman feeling scorned rats him out.
Hell hath no fury, and alla that.

Oh yeah, revenge, money or to get themselves out of a bind. Those are the three reasons people snitch, but that's a different story. Highway interdiction catches bad guys that haven't made mistakes...other than changing lanes without signaling or some other mundane traffic offense.

About 10 years ago, my nephew graduated from college in FL. He was going through TX on his way home to WA when he was stopped by a state cop. He was never given a reason for the stop and they didn't ask if they could search the car, they just did it. They brought in a drug dog and about dismantled his car...finding nothing. My nephew has always been a drug hater. He figures the only possible reason he was stopped was because of his long hair and beard.

OK, but what if the cop is a Mason who's all junked-up on Flouride? What then?

FC

If you say no to a search ...

You'll ride the lightning, they'll have sex with you while you're passed out, and then they'll search your vehicle.

Good interdiction officers don't profile, because the people who look like a doper to the average Joe are what they call "ducks". The big boys know better than to look like smugglers and these guys don't want to be bothered with a pound of weed or and ounce of crack. They stop everybody and let them talk themselves into jail. Then again, a lot of the biggest dope hauls are made from completely innocent (probably) carriers such as trucks hauling loads. We got 100 kilos of cocaine from the trunk of a crown vic driven by some poor old guy who was just transporting the vehicle from what he thought was one dealership to another.

Since you imply he was innocent of intentionally committing this crime, what was the punishment?

We believed him and turned him loose, but somebody in Mexico got shorted $1.3 million. We do it with truckers all the time. If we determine the hauler is in on the deal, we give them the opportunity to make a "controlled delivery".

Pat is right...the interdiction level dudes don't look like Cheech and Chong taking their personal use stuff home after a visit to their dealer. More like Ozzie and Harriet in their Winnebago.
Trucker, at least IME are usually in on it, either the guy driving ( usually...) or the guy that owns the trailer. Often we will find the haul in the back and personal use meth in the cab, as the drivers use it to stay awake.

Make the cop a friend; just complement him on the his nice, bright, cavity-free teeth.

But what if he is African-American and driving a pick up erratically?

Everybody goes home happy then.

Also, earlier when you say you're liable when you tear apart someones rig and don't find what you were looking for, did you mean YOU personally or the jurisdiction you work for?

The driver may not be happy once he gets back to Mexico. Knowing or not about the dope, somebody down there will be asking about their 1.3 million, and Mr. Driver, in all likelihood,will become a statistic.

Im familiar with the Q&A technique of " where you from, where you going, where you coming from", living on the border we deal with that on a regular basis when passing thru check points.
I have several techniques I use, at times I'll do the point behind me for the where you been question, then of course point forward to the where you going, or use direction, north south east west. Most times, with a smile, and voice that is not riddled with sarcasm or indignation, just casual and calm, tell them that the question asked is really none of their business.
Their look always displays they think Im a jerk, but Ive pulled it off literally dozens of times, and let on my way. It's our right to not consent to searches, nor answer questions not germane to the stop...never give them, more than they got coming.

Yeah, where's that sarcasm font again?

Certainly the state or whoever ends up with the cash is happy.

If you think about it, they did the smart thing turning the guy loose. As you say, he'll end up dead, no costly incarceration and trial, nice and clean. He even transports himself to his execution. Sweet deal all the way around.

Everybody goes home happy.

That would on reasonableness of the search. It kinda like tearing up your equipment. Did you loose your radio chasing somebody down an alley or sell it on ebay?

Are you saying that officers are being held personally, financially responsible for tearing apart a rig and not finding the goods-

1) rarely, if ever, but theoretically it could happen
2)occasionally/sometimes
3) often
4) very often/common

To answer the OP.

Never.

Had a similar incident when in Pennsylvania returning from a hunting trip. Local yokel pulled me over on an interstate after pulling up & giving me a look over. I was dressed in camo & obviously an out of state hunter. After checking license & registration he requested permission to search my truck. I had several rifles in soft cases, a 22 handgun, & ammo. After I denied permission he advised me that he would let me sit on the side of the road all day. I pulled a book out of my backpack & started to read. He was furious & stalked back to his vehicle. After about 15 minutes he drove away.

I had a scary incident at our county courthouse in liberal Northern Virginia. One of my daughters in college received a speeding ticket & was subject to loosing her license. We went to the courthouse in my hunting truck. Bad decision on my part. I had a shelf in the top of the windshield where I stored my licensed CC .357. In the back I had a locked chest with 2 rifles, a shotgun, & lots of ammo. Due to construction at the courthouse we were directed to another parking area. When cop saw my handicapped tag he opened gate to judges parking area & directed me in. Suddenly 2 more cops arrived & used a mirror to check under my truck, asked us to step out & inspected both the interior & rear of the truck. They never saw the shelf or asked about the big chest in the back. So much for inspections. In liberal Northern Virginia if the inspection had been through I probably would still be in jail.

The one time they should have asked and didn't I had a trunk full of beer for a big party and was a minor (17) I was scared schitless! How the cop never picked up on my nervousness I'll never know. Got a ticket for 10 over though.

The last time I had a LEO search a vehicle I was in, or even ask to search, was on quail hunting trip in the SO Cal desert back in the 80's. He didn't ask, he just searched. He was looking for over the limit hidden quail.

He didn't find any though. A limit of quail was tough to come by.

Interesting. Chatted with a cop who worked undercover for a few years back in the 90's. Said as soon as he grew the beard and put the hair into a biker ponytail all of a sudden he was getting stopped weekly for "illegal lane changes". Never stopped before. He said he'd never been aware how much even he had unconsciously profiled drivers.

Always wondered how the Nebraska cops find so many drug couriers on I-80. Probably all due to idjits agreeing to searches. But if they were rocket scientists, they wouldn't be working as drug couriers/dealers.

If they have probable cause for a search they ain't gonna ask permission. I have never had my car searched or been asked for permission to search. If asked I would say no.

Ernie

It doesn't happen that often to individual officers, because usually the searches were good, probable cause existed but whatever/whoever being searched for was gone. When an officer goes beyond that, the bill is served with termination paperwork.

Not true. We often have probable cause to search but ask for consent anyway. It makes it that much easier in court and the subjects verbage usually adds to the PC.

I remember watching my partner tell a guy, "Why dontcha give me that bag a dope in your car, and let's knock off the BS." to which the guy reached in, grabbed a bag of dope, and handed it to my partner.

When I asked him later how he knew, he replied, "I didn't"

How many times? With some judges, all day, every day. Also keep in mind that not all searches with good probable cause bear fruit. If the cops go to a judge and say they want a warrant, it's pretty much a slam-dunk that they'll get it.

Dats the way I was taught...

I'm curious on a search with PC, is a car destroyed as in seats cut open or anything like that, or is it just contents emptied next to the highway?
And thank you very much for answering my questions, I appreciate it.

Pat can tell you more about 'hand-on' searches, everything Ive done, Ive done with a dog. In our case (K9) if the dog damages something on a vehicle during a search and doesn't find contraband, your dept. is paying for it...

No problem, shared expertise is what brings most people to the 'fire. "Probably cause" is just that. Cause the would make a reasonable police officer (not person) believe that something is/has occurred. If I have PC to believe you have a stolen TV in you vehicle, I can't look in the glove compartment for it. On the other hand, if the PC is for something small, you can look anywhere it may be contained. We don't make a habit of damaging things unless we know we have to.

Pat, as a citizen stepping out of your profession, do the interdiction things bother you. When i get stopped for the registration inspections in a car, it pisses me off. It may be interdiction and I am not seeing that. If so that is better, in my eyes, but if they're looking to fine me for paperwork that is wrong. Not trying to argue but it is hard to balance making your job easier, which should benefit all, with a cop screwing with me. Have spent years driving trucks, those rules are different. They don't bother me, just part of the job

Not if it's done right, by professionals with the right knowledge and intent. As with everything else in police work, that is often not the case. There are plenty people wearing a badge that, for a plethora of reasons, shouldn't be. There are also a lot of young LEOs that just have a lot to learn. I don't see that ever changing.

I've made some pretty stupid stops in the wee hours of the morning.
-No license plate light
-Failed to signal within 100' of a lane change
-Failed to stop at the designated stop line for a stop sign

So far, 100% of the time when I've said...."That's what I stopped you for, but really I'm just looking for drunks and bad guys. You're not either of those, so drive safe and have a nice evening.".....people have gone from pissed off to happy immediately.

But some cops have terrible people skills, or they're stressed out about money, or they're tired from being up all day with sick kids, or they're in a bad mood because they're always reading articles about "I can't breathe" in the news and on the Fire. So they don't bother explaining anything at all.

I would love to have you stop me and have me do a field sobriety test. Because of a back injury I am often not sure exactly where my left leg is and even if I do it does not listen to me all the time. Then there is the Meniere's disease which causes vertigo and cerebellar gait. There is no way I could pass.

Not much chance of that happening since for the safety of everyone on the road I quit driving.

Thanks for the response guy. We all tend to focus on the bad and not remember the good one cop having a bad day or with a bad attitude and we judge them all. As a long haul truck driver I "met" a few cops. Most were fair to good encounters and I deserved many more fines than I got. Only one was unfair, as I told the cop, although I admitted I was breaking the law. Still paid a fine.https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/default/tongue.gif

So you always have reason to believe every vehicle is hiding something small unless they are driven by a police officer. Cool.

Go away maggot.

Seems an awful lot of LE, here, are willing to intrude on our personal lives and give away our rights. Never would I give permission to search.

Fishing with a gill net is good, because sometimes you catch big fish.

If you're a criminal, I'll be more than happy to intrude on your personal life...take your rights away too.

And even if he isn't committing a crime you can still remove his valuables via civil asset forfeiture and be happy about that too.

Everyone goes home happy.

I willing to bet even if I'm not a criminal and holier than the Pope you would still be willing to do that.

Please don't quote the [bleep]. Quotes are the only way I can see his crap.

OOPS got a BLEEP, The word was a$$hole.

I doubt it. Mental commitments are a PITA.

What constitutes a criminal?

And don't say someone who breaks the law. There are so many laws out there that everyone one of us breaks dozens of laws every day including the police. By the very nature of the beast we are a lawless society. So back to my original question what constitutes a criminal?

Ask Gus. I'm too tired.

To a criminal, everyone else is a criminal, too.

Why so tired? Have you been drinking? Where are you coming from?
Maybe we should have a look at what is in your car,you don't mind, do you?

He's a police lieutenant yes he does mind and no you can't.

From working three jobs. Why are you so angry? Whatever it is, I'm sure it's not your fault.

Pretty evasive, if you don't consent we will have to bring in the K-9.
It may sound like we are randomly targeting people driving, but don't worry, this is how we catch major criminals.

yes and probable cause does not stem soley from a "traffic" stop. They must have probable cause of a criminal act too. No probable cause then illegal search.

Easy Pat, sounds like there's a Mensa card in his wallet.

Do they teach you, at the academy, to demonize ordinary citizens who don't want an overbearing .gov?

We don't want meth on the streets or in our schools but we don't want police to look for it.

We don't want illegal criminals running around raping our wives or daughters yet we don't want the police stopping or looking for them.

We don't want drunks driving around putting good folks on the roads at risk but we don't want police stopping anyone looking for the drunks.

Just what the flying hell do we want cops to do? The are hired to catch the bad guys but just don't look for any bad guys.

Am I the only non LEO who see a problem here.

Scott--it's not working, so far.

I was told by a cop
"Everyone's guilty of something, they just haven't been caught yet".

Yes they do then they get refresher courses on that via fusion centers. You are guilty of something, somehow, someway and if you aren't then you should support asset forfeiture so the officer goes away from the interaction with at least valuables.

Here is what Scott is talking about, but too bashful to share the full details:

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2014/03/civil-asset-forfeiture-7-things-you-should-know

Scott, what we as a people have to ask our ourselves is do we want a free society or an authoritarian (unfree) society?

In a free society police force is retaliatory. This means that force is used AFTER a crime is committed. This approach assumes that we are all innocent until proven guilty.

In an authoritarian (unfree) society police force is initiated. This means force is used BEFORE a crime is committed. This approach assumes we are all criminals who haven't been caught yet.

I prefer the free society approach.

"I doubt it. Mental commitments are a PITA."

THAT'S got to rank waaay up there as far as 'fire putdowns. Too bad the guy is too into himself to appreciate the sheer quality of it.

Is there ever a good time to consent to a search?

Absolutely. If they hired only cops who look like Refrigerator Girl, I'd volunteer to be searched constantly. And thoroughly.

Someone needs to post that pic as a reminder...

What? No one's going to post Refrigerator Girl?

The 'Fire disappoints today...

If, god forbid, one of your loved ones were killed by a drunk driver. Would you be content with his arrest and conviction or is it ok with you that the cops are looking for drunks before they wreck. I too am uneasy with some of the police tactics but when you try to make this simple it comes down to totalitarianism or anarchy. I do not want either, but if you want it simple which do you want?

DUI drivers are rather easy to spot.

A search is going to determine whether a driver is drunk or not?

That's her twin, Porch Girl.

FYI...found this while surfing.

What the ACLU says to do if stopped by police

The American Civil Liberties Union has released apps that provide tips about how to respond when met by police, and two Portland, Oregon, attorneys plan to release their own app called "Driving While Black" that specifically deals with traffic stops.

Portland police spokesman Pete Simpson says the department has no problem with apps that encourage safe encounters. Simpson says if you're right and the officer is wrong, it's better to take the high road during a stop and take it up later. "Know your rights and exercise them, but be safe about it," he said.

Here's a checklist of ways to make sure police encounters remain peaceful, without squandering rights, courtesy of the ACLU.

� Stay calm and in control of your words, body language, and emotions. Anything you say or do can be used against you.

� Do not argue with officers. If you feel you must tell police they are wrong, do so in a non-confrontational way.

� Keep your hands where police can see them and do not touch an officer or resist physically.

� If arrested, ask for a lawyer immediately. Explaining your situation without a lawyer may harm your case.

� You may ask for officers' names, badge numbers and business cards.

� You never have to consent to a search of yourself or your belongings, including your cellphone.

� Try to find witnesses and write down their names and phone numbers.

� If hurt, take photos of the injuries, but get medical attention first. Ask for copies of your medical treatment files.

� Write down everything you remember immediately after the encounter.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/2014/12/11/what-aclu-says-to-do-if-stopped-by-police/