It fits right in your pocket with a clip.
I'm thinking about getting one but have never owned anything made by this company.
Any suggestions?
Here is the website.

They make good chit...I have one of there 380 auto pistols...Nice little pc.I have several buddys that carry those...Might pick one up myself.

Depends on what shirt I am wearing.

Is that a folder?

Good quality firearm.

Aside from that, they have their use I suppose, but not really with me.

The calibers offered are too small.

The revolvers are too small.

The muzzle blast of that .22 Mag is too loud.

Single action.

There are better things to carry...

As I said, the little guns are made well. I just don't have a use for one.

Yep... Then it clips into your pocket like a phone or pager or whatever.

I've got one just like that. Pretty much just sits at home. Too small

A backup for your backup.

I've carried the regular .22mag version a few times loose in my front pocket.

HEAVY trigger pull, made to stick in somebodies guts and pull the trigger as a last-ditch effort. Definitely NOT made for match shooting.

Pistol is extremely well made and quality is high.

A very niche weapon.

I have one in my pock most of the time if I don't have my 380. It's one or the other.

Perfect example of an across-the-card-table gun.

I shot one once, a .22 mag, recoil was quite surprising, dang near dropped it.

Are these the same folks that came out with the 454 Casull back in the early 90's?

No freedom arms dropped the mini in 1989. Just asked that very question when I had them on the phone ordering parts yesterday. I think it's the same or very similar design that NAA is making though.

Years ago they made on that clipped into a belt buckle.I sold a lot of them when I had my FFL.

I have this one...



I bought it for snakes while P.D. Hunting using 22Mag. Shot. I carry it now and then.

It's a quality gun, just not for everyone I guess.

Hornady makes "Critical Defence" 45 grain load for it.

Although much more expensive, I also have a S&W 351PD.



I really like it.

This. A buddy had one, and I discovered that I could not hit a 12 ounce can that was 4 feet from the muzzle!

Neat little gun but .22 mag is the hardest rimfire ammo to find. .22 mag is a blast to shoot if you wear ear protection. I have a PMR30 that I have yet to shoot.

I like this better and it rides in my pocket

It's hell on carpenter bees, I've killed about 2 dozen so far this spring, and I can actually hit something with it further than 4 feet

I went in a slightly different direction that I think should require less manipulation to get it into action.



Also, the Tritium Big Dot front sight on the Pug is nice.

nah, I carry one of these

Always sort of intrigued me...no enough to buy one, though. My Smith 617 is about as small as I care to go, I guess.

And you can hold this one! I ment steelheads LRC nice wing shooting! I like mine in 9mm!

I think you should polish off the front sight in case you shoot someone and they stuff it up you azz.

No need they fell off most of the Freedom Arms ones. Look at them on GB there's more that are missing the sight than aren't. The one I was ordering parts for yesterday was in to have the firing pin the guy lost replaced and the front sight soldered back on.

With all respect, a front sight ain't makin any difference anyways..

I have carried one a NAA 22 Mag in my right front pocket for almost twenty years, if I shoot someone with it, they will not be shoving it up my ass.

I also have carried one almost 20 years. Love it

Have had 3-4 of them over the years, never can keep it but get sucked into buying another now and again. I doubt I will again though, impractical as hell other then easy to hide. BTW the >22 short version with high speed shorts gives the same velocity as the long rifle version and is even smaller.

OK Thats funny

The 22mag is handful not much to hold on to

Hank

I've got one of these with the standard grip. I like it with rat shot, and keep it for that.

Yep, handy dandy's.


Ballistics' here show some LR almost the equal of 22 Mag. from these short barrels.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22.html

I know they work well for Coup De grace on deer or elk and will do wonders on various pestilent or bothersome critters in need of an attitude adjustment.

Ive carried one off and on for the last 20 years as a last ditch boot gun. I even killed a few snakes with the .22 mag bird shot.

It is the gun's raison d'etre. Also, I put 5-40 grain 22 magnum Gold Dots in a glass of water for 5 days. They all fired as if they just were taken out of the box. More practical than TRH's seal-a-meal .45 shower gun.

KentuckyMountianMan
What is the going price on the 380 vrs the MSRP.
Thanks for your time. Cheers NC

Do you carry all of those at the same time (serious question)?

I've got a 950bs in 22short.
Last time I "needed" a pistol it did evrything a 45 would have.

Only if I'm visiting Houston or San Antonio and wearing my hiking shorts and a T-shirt.

Otherwise, I'm usually just packing only my Glock 32 or my Lightweight 1911 Commander.

Y'all don't remember when old Bruce fell in the swamp whilst procuring that alligator, pull that same pistol out of his bib overhalls bib pocket and put the coup de grâce on that 13ft behemoth?

It was a sight to behold.

THIS!

It beats the heck out of throwing a spent tazer at someone...

I find it interesting how we make our choices.

Rather than an array of smaller weapons, I choose to carry a Glock 17 year round. Most of the times I wear jeans, but in the heat of summer it's just as easy to carry IWB in loose fitting shorts, and a loose summer shirt.

I have one in each pocket...and two in my cap!

Around here the 380 Guardian goes for 290 to 320 I paid 290 for mine.

Here's a "satisfied customer plug" for NAA. Back in the early '80's I bought one in pieces from a coworker for 20 bucks. It was the plastic handled one like on the left in picture.

I let it sit around in a box lid for a couple of years until I decided to try to put it together. Turned out it needed a cylinder hand so I called up and ordered one. Once I recieved it and started to put it together I realized it also needed a spring, so I called them again.

While ordering it I told them what I was doing and they said to send it to them and they would put it together for me, no charge. I sent it to them and a couple weeks later they sent it back. There was a list of parts that they had replaced on it, including the cylinder that if I remember right totaled up to around $160.00. At the bottom of the list was a NO Charge.

They had polished it up and had even replaced the cheap plastic grips with a pair of Rosewood ones. I was impressed.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

One in .22mag would suit me fine for just walkin' around
5 rounds alternate with shotshells
Yes, just the ticket

NAA makes fine quality weapons. I had one of their Sidewinders, which is a variant on the one you're thinking about but has a standard grip and comes with both cylinders in a swing out version. Very difficult to shoot. Almost dangerous. There is such a thing as too small. I got rid of it. I currently have one of their 380's, the Guardian. It isn't as small but is a very uncomfortable gun to shoot. I will probably get rid of it too.

The Sig 938 is a very comfortable gun to shoot. IMO it is about as small as one can shoot safely.

I got one in 22LR and one in 22Mag in 1994.
Then I shot some 1 pound roosters with a 22LR.
No effect with body shots. In the head or the neck took them down.

I did experiment and threaded a 22 barrel liner and screwed it in a NAA revolver. It gets higher velocity, but still not good enough to carry for self defense.

Based on shooting animals, the .355" Speer Gold Dot 90 gr JHP at 1100 fps from a hot rodded 380 is the minimum self defense carry for me.

Terminal ballistics are mostly just arguing on the internet for the last 20 years, so I will not argue.

OK Clarkm no argument, but I personally have dispatched two elk that were down shot thru the spine, more than one deer, a 100 pound plus dog and several other smaller critters with a NAA 22LR using CCI stingers and it ended the life of each and every one with one well placed shot.

No argument here, just some simple truth.

Anyone that thinks these are just toys, and not lethal or dangerous better take a second look.

Hmmmm, Buntline.

Friend of mine made up a lugged 6" barrel matching the factory NAA contour and installed on his 22 short model. He built a set of grips that extend the length but retain the same general shape, somewhat like the square butt that Freedom offered on their long barreled model. He put slightly larger sights on it and carries it in a side pocket on his frame pack for potting small game quietly on backpack sheep hunts. Calls it the "Ptarmigun", pretty neat silk purse.

My wife made up a leather "Carry" holster, with a side pouch to carry 5 spare rounds. It does a nice job of
"Rounding" off the imprint on your pocket...



Little piece of velcro holds down the flap.

Not saying you do, but I do know of one person whose life was saved because he had one.

It would't be proper to identify him, but I am sure that many who know him are aware of the story. I never met him since he moved away from the town where it occurred and where friends told me about it. His father was quite wealthy and ran a big business in town.

One day back in the 1980s he was getting out of his car in his driveway and was slugged and thrown unconscious in the backseat of a car by two would-be kidnappers. He woke up and the one in the front passenger seat leaned back to hit him over the head again.

He had his NAA .22LR in his pocket and shot the kidnapper in the eye, killing him. The driver stopped the car and ran off.

If he had not had his NAA, he surely would have been killed, as the two perps worked in the father's plant and could not have afforded to be recognized..

After that the plant had locked doors to all the management offices and remarkably stringent security measures.

I don't know about you, but I thought this made the case for genuine utility. In fact, shortly after visiting the plant myself, where I heard the story, I bought a NAA for putting in my own pocket for unusual situations.

I still have it, though not with me here in Japan.

Excellent case for concealed carry, and why it pays to do so..

Thanks for posting, Anjin

Very good point, any gun is better than a #2 pencil..

You use to be able to get a "Belt Buckle Holster" for one.

I'm not sure their still made...

Don't knock pencils.

A #2 is too soft but a sharpened #2.5H in close quarters can be effective. I carried #4H drafting pencil for many years.

^^^^^ dude in the video is a fuggin retard, it's not a 1000 yard match gun, it's an up close and personal, last ditch, defense piece.

Yep. And he certainly could stand some remedial tutoring on converting yards to feet, too.

Have owned several over the years, 22 Mag. and 22 LR.

Presently have the smallest one, in 22 Short.

Pack it as a "get the FU*K off ME" gun.

Figure it might save the day, if poked in a perp's ear.

It's a backup for my Glock 42 backup.

Virgil B.

Anjin, I do believe I know who you are talking about and if so, it happened just a few of blocks from my home..

Geo

one thing often forgot is the need for deep concealment. Of course knowing i was going in harms way, and if the capability was there, i would like a belt fed machine gun.
The problem for my line of work in the past was a lot of prohibitions on carry of a firearm. Which means you had to defy common sense some times to honor those prohibitions. A deep concealment gun made a lot of sense.
I never got around to buying a naa, but i did have a hawes 357 derringer i use to pack quite a bit.
That was before the era of keltecs etc
the naa one i always wanted was the one that could be mounted on a belt buckle.

I've carried one for the better part of twenty years. They are built like a Swiss watch. Mostly for warm weather Mr. no shoulders and a lot of backup to a backup weapon.

The small grips leave much to be desired so I switched to the larger rubber boots. With these and much concentration you can hit things at 5-7 yards.

The .22mag and short barrel makes an impressive fireball in dim light and the noise level seems an equal to say maybe a .357.

I've yet to meet the person that was willing to catch a 22short HP.
The last fker who saw the business end acted like he opened a pillow case full of black hornets. In one lightning fast move he threw up both hands, spun around and ran like Jesse Owens on crack with a doberman in tow.

There's a guy in the LGS where I shop and do FFL's that carries one. I think .22 mag is a big kablam for backup, backup. .22LR SHOULD work, if you think you're needing one.
Just sayin'.

I overheard some bozo at a gun counter a while back tell a young lady who was looking for her first handgun not to get the LCR 22 because it wasn't powerful enough. His exact quote was " you don't want a 22, it won't do nothing, you could shoot me in the face with it and I wouldn't even care". As my wife, who carries a S&W 61 Escort loaded with Win PowerPoint 36gr hollow points that she is deadly on milk jugs to 10-12yds with, started dying laughing. I took the time to explain to this dipschit that were I to shoot him in the face with even just a 22, he would certainly more than care, he'd be on the floor writhing in pain while simultaneously pissing and schitting his drawers if he was even alive at all. He started to rebut until I asked him if he'd even seen slaughter steers killed and if so what they used. You could see the light bulb flicker to life in his eyes as the realization hit home. 1000 pound beef cow has a lot thicker skull than even the dumbest human.

Not an ideal gun or caliber if you're headed into harms way and know it, but I'll take even an NAA mini over the sharpest of sticks or my untrimmed fingernails when the chips are down.

I just got back from a hospital that has a strict no guns or weapons allowed policy with my Kel Tec P3AT in 380, full of Buffalo Bore +P+ ammo, in my front pocket. The gun was and is impossible to 'make' as a gun. With no ability to run or fight while these sutures are so sore and new, plus pain meds that make me a bit weak anyway, no way am I going into downtown Seattle unarmed. If they take away the Kel Tec, no great financial loss. According to the security folks at VM hospital I talked to, they are against the no guns policy and winked telling me "if we don't see it, we don't care."

I would spend $250 on A Kel Tec P3AT WAY before I would carry a mini, single action 22 rimfire of any kind. Both are about as easy to carry and conceal, but a 100gr Hardcast at 1125 from my barrel (Actual chronographed speed) is a bunch more gun than any 22 will ever be. This is 22LR RIFLE velocity, with a .35 caliber 100gr bullet! No comparison there. I have never had any interest in these mini single action 22RF's, myself.

Side note, Vicki my donor is doing great, finally! and I am doing better than great, all things considered.

Have to disagree here!

Weak and doped up on pain meds, no waaay am I packin' less then full boat 9MM...

¥ou are most likely right. The plant was in an extremely beautiful town in Georgia.

Got to carry what I can get in and out of the hostile environment with. And a 100gr bullet at 1125 ain't exactly a non gun. BTW, I am a little weak in the legs right now, but this may be a normal side effect of only being out of major surgery and only a couple of days out of the hospital. I am not "Doped up" and am more clear of mind and thought than I was pre surgery with my then pretty much non kidney function and chemical panels a long way off of spec.

If I was doped up, I would not be carrying any kind of weapon. I did not carry on the way home from the hospital for that very reason.

Look at the picture. It's a 32 mag.

Might as well get drunk and carry.

Oi, do we have a lot in common.
I own my weight in handguns, but normally carry a Kel-Tec P3AT hand loaded to the claimed performance of Buffalo Bore +P.

But for downtown Seattle, I have the 380 in my left hand pocket and in my right hand pocket a double stack 45acp with handloads loaded to 45 Super level.

I have shot so many animals, i know what is going to happen. Body shots with a 22 will stop squirrels and crows it is good 22 ammo. It will only make a raccoon mad. I have killed many dozens of raccoons with a 22, but with brain shots. And brain shots are possible in hunting, but not what is going to happen in a self defense situation.

No chit,.....and as expected,
the train wreck continues.

GTC

GTC

Well, if I'm gonna be armed while f'd up high on drugs, I want a .44 Mag.
Might as well go down in flames



Sorry, I'm just kidding, I just couldn' pass on the irony here...

The "Doped up" was added. Not my words and not my reality at all. I have been walking around with a Fentanyl patch and taking Oxycodones fro severe gout pain for a very long time.

While on that level of meds I made numerous launches at the dragstrip in .010 to .030 and ran well until I got to sick mid summer to continue. The body and mind adapt, and a big body like mine can handle higher doses than can a smaller person. Like I said, if I was "doped up" and I am most certainly NOT, I would not be carrying a firearm at all. I knew not to carry upon release from the transplannt center, nor for the frst few day s when my med levels were high enough for me to feel them.

How 'bout we get back to the NAA mini revolvers merits, or lack thereof? I am doing just fine and have my wits about me quite nicely, thank you all very much.

I stand by my point that a 10 ounce .380 with heavy duty loads such as the super hot rod loads from Buffalo Bore is a far better option for deep carry.

My experience with Kel Tec is that they are junk. I wouldn't buy one under any circumstance.

Another question that I'd like to throw out... I understand that they have about a 6lb trigger. Has anyone tried to lighten that trigger?

We are up to three Kel Tecs and like them a lot.

I have bought every kel-tec as soon as it came out and never had a failure.

Well, I don't have the Kel-Tec electromagnetic testing equipment, but I saw it on the shelf at the Boeing Lightning lab when I visited there. George Kelgren is an engineer from Sweden.


"Anecdotes are not data" - NPR

No, it isn't.

Here's the link BBart posted. http://northamericanarms.com/firearms/magnums/mag/m-hg.html

You da mane!!

I guess my eyeballs aren't working well.

I had this kind of set up years ago, but Mr. Dunlap made it a concealed carry.


http://northamericanarms.com/bbs-m.html

Pocket sized, and a bit more punch than a rimfire.

We have one for snakes around the house. Nope you don't have to be 3 or 4 feet away, they kill further than that.

Good for what its good for and I'd rather have it for personal defense than nothing...

The kel tecs I've seen have been fine. I am at the point to buy a few for us too, I"ll tweak em like I do all semis to slick em up and function test em. I expect zero issues just like the others I've shot.

Know a couple of LEO that use em as backups and have never had an issue either.

It’s been rainy so I went to the range yesterday and today. I reacquainted myself with the Pug. I forgot to bring the snake shot, so all I had was 40 grain Gold Dots. All shots were off hand.

View from the rear of the gun.



5 to a 3x5” target at 5 yards yesterday. I threw one to the cardboard above the target area.



15 shots at an 8 inch circle at 7 yards yesterday. It looks like I threw one right outside the target area to the right and I really can’t tell about some. There are at least 3 in a jumble and possibly more. The rounds tumble some and that is not a bad thing.



5 to a 3x5” target at 5 yards today. I pulled one to the left a little but still a head shot.



5 shots at an 8 inch circle at 7 yards today. I threw one to the neck. Oh well.



A view of the 3x5 inch target with a shot fired from about a foot. The bullet hole to the left center is from a prior shot.



RJM on the handgun forum is a great shot and has posted some amazing groups with his. I realize my shooting was not super awesome, but another couple or three range sessions would tighten things up.

For a person who shoots thumbs forward, the support hand thumb really flirts with the cylinder gap and can get some blast, so I mostly was shooting one handed or two handed but with weird support today.

It’s not for everybody, and I certainly wouldn’t recommend it for a primary unless one is limited to wearing a bathing suit, but it isn’t the worst thing to have in a cupholder when you are stuck behind another car at the red light on the highway off ramp and God tells Squeegee Man that you are Satan or more prosperous than you deserve to be.

I would not lighten the trigger. I view it as a safety feature.

My healing up quickly has allowed me to drop my meds down to pre surgery levels and I am driving my truck, with ease for those who were (Unneccesarily) concerned.

Right now we have a Kel Tec P3AT, PF-9, and a Sub 2000 in 40SW. In the near plans or hopes are to aquire a KSG and another PMR30.

I think that some folks equip or equate lightweight/polymer or maybe able to see the springs through the slide a little as being poorly made. This is simply not the case. But in our experience they run great and have a better trigger than the Kahr CW series of pistols that we have tried and carried a bit. The Kel Tec P3AT and PF-9 both have, IOE, pretty fair triggers for a DAO pistol. What is more, the centerfire pistols universally do not have any insidious external safety which, for a beginners defensive carry gun is a non starter with me. I want Sherri to be able to point and shoot without having to think to release a safety or any other slow down or detriment to getting rounds down range and onto the Perp. Towards that end Sherri's PF-9 also has a crimson trace lazer grip. Grab the gun and it is ON. Da ON-ly way to fly as I see it.

For a good functional lightweight pistol, these things just rock.

Back on topic, I don't know why anyone would choose a tiny single action 22RF when one can drop a 10oz Kel Tec or other similarly sized and lightweight 380 full of Buffalo Bore +P+ ammo in a pocket and carry JUST as easily, but have some real horsepower on hand, comparitavely.

My primary EDC is still my 1911 in 10mm with original spec loads topped with Gold Dot or Golden Sabre 180's plus a CT lazer grip but I am not unarmed with my Kel Tec P3AT tucked away. Far from it.

Glad your feeling better, keep up a good fight !!

I bought my NAA .22mag. for snake shot use. Have better guns for personal defense.

You're going to screw around with that Buffalo Bore +P+ ammo and blow the slide off the rails.

I load 380 to 3 levels;
1) Lowest hot load 70% over published extra powder
2) Medium hot load 120% extra
3) Highest hot load 210% extra

The lowest is for the Kel-tec P3AT and the Ruger P380.
They have light slides, weak recoil springs, and thin chamber walls. But the weakest link is the case support. The Kel-Tec has 0.270" of feed ramp intrusion. The Ruger is a negligible amount better. The 380 brass has webs 0.175" thick. This leaves 0.105" of thin unsupported case wall. The most power I can get is with 6.2 gr Power Pistol, 90 gr Gold Dot, 0.980" over all length. There is no margin on the over all length. There is no margin on the powder. It is not 2 gr below a case bulge, it is at the beginning of a tiny case bulge. This chronographs at an average of 1100 fps from the 2.7" barrels.

1100 fps also happens to be what Buffalo Bore claims for the 380 +P 90 gr JHP from a 2.7" barrel.

I don't know how Buffalo Bore does it, but I would not give my P3AT and P380 handloads to anyone else. There is no safety margin at all.

I have never shot anything alive with those loads, but I handed it to a friend and he finished off a buck antelope instantly with a heart shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S7vdJVDSNQ

Had one of the NAA,s gave it away will stick with my Keltec 380.

Now that I have function tested it and know it feeds this stuff just fine, we don't run any through it anymore. It is carry ammo only. If we blow the slide rails off in a dangerous encounter, guess how much I care over the damaged $200 pistol......

ClarkM,

Nice video of the antelope hunt. I SO want to do that someday soon!

And your recipe for the 90 grain bullets is probably exactly Buffalo Bores recipe. I will not be reloading any 380 when I can buy the small amount of hot loads that I want and be done with it. It is interesting that Buff Bore can get the same steam up with the 100gr HCFN bullet. I have my P3AT loaded with 4 100gr HCFN loads and three 90gr HP loads. I figure on pounding out all seven rounds if ever danger comes a lookin for me. Hoping and praying it never will, but I must and will protect my wife and other innocents if called upon to do so. I came VERY CLOSE to trying these 380 loads on a loose running Pit Bull (against ordinances and park rules, big time) that rushed our three properly leashed dogs. Just before I popped a cap a horrified owner came around the corner and called her stupid pit back to her. She asked me if thought my reaction was a little bit extreme.... I said no, not at all. I am perfectly within my rights to protect my dogs and my wife here and YOU are breaking the law as well as any sense of reason. If you do not want to see your dog with a bullet hole in his brain, KEEP HIM ON A DAMNED LEASH LIKE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO! Your dog was within one second, maximum, of instant death and he would NOT have been the first one I ever shot and then slept peacefully the following night.

49 and 1/2 years ago I intervened when a pit bull attacked my baby brother. It ripped me a new one. When I see a pit bull, I get ready for a quick draw.

It bothers me if I blow up an old Colt that was hand fitted and they can't make them any more. But when I blow an overloaded case head off in a Kel-Tec and I have to put in a new extractor, it is a small price to pay to get the data.

If I can get an animal to hold still, I can shoot them in the brain with a 22. But once it is moving, even right in front of me, all I can do it body shots. And a 22 body shot I have never seen stop a raccoon. It does get them to leave in a hurry.

That Kel-Tec P3AT did not fire when I handed it over to the Antelope hunter in the video.
I opened it up and it was stuffed full of pocket lint.
I blew that out of there and handed it back to him.
The 6'2" 270 pound man complained the P3AT kicked too hard.
1100 fps 90 gr from a 10 ounce loaded gun bearing on one square inch of hand, is going to hurt. It is not a fun gun to shoot. It is just the lightest carry. The NAA may be 6 ounces loaded, but that is too far from the knee of the diminishing returns graph.

I have a 70s series Colt Gold Cup 1911 National Match that I carry when I feel the need. I also have Colt Detective Special that I also carry along with a few other quality handguns that pretty much keep me out of the Kel-Tec market.
Since I own a ranch that's out in the middle of nowhere,I figgered that little 22 would fit well in my pocket when I'm out and about on the property. I don't think that I'll be sticking it in anyone's ear or running off a mugger with it.
I was just interested in the quality of the pistols that this company puts out. Again... I could give two $hitts about junk like Kel-Tec. Just this little tootoo.... Thanks gang.

bart, as i was rereading this thread i got to thinking of something. In the for what it's worth category.
Few years ago i took an elk into a country slaughterhouse, that processed all kinds of stuff. Noticed a bunch of cows ready to get offed. Brought another elk in a couple of days late, cattle had been done, but noticed the .22magnum casings laying around they had used to do the cows. Now i am sure they were brain shots under controlled circumstances, but they were used.
I did pull out a little colt single shot .22short derringer yesterday, i think made by uberti for colt. Better than nothing in some circumstances.
Still think i need one of those n.a.a. with the buckle holster.

I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole..

Those things have about a 20# trigger pull - necessary due to lack of trigger guard... I've had customers ask me to lighten up the trigger.. Not a chance - a light trigger pull coupled with no trigger guard = AD just waiting to happen..

No thanks.. YMMV

Here's one..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/North-Ameri..._DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35e8ed628a

I know it wasn't intended this way, but that sounds kinda like a reverse "watch this, hold my beer" deal. "Hand me your beer and use this pocket rocket. There is no safety margin at all, but I loaded it right."

I don't think anyone posting here really cares about damaging a gun if it saves their life. My personal preference, however, would be to avoid having the rear of the slide launch through my dominant eye and into my head. If I have any concerns about that, I will find a different solution, but that is a personal choice.

Well put, but the reports and reviews indicate that these little P3AT's will take a good number of rounds of these.

NRA testing a few years ago showed that these Kel Tecs handled a good number of the Buffalo Bore rounds, and the 100gr HCFN loads I use completely penetrated the 24 inch block of ballistic Gelatin with a heavy denim barrier placed in front. This gives me good confidence that in a close range emergency the pistol will do quite allright.

Owners of these who post at the Kel Tec Owners group report good longevity with the Buffalo Bore loads and a couple of guys (who also posted links to the news story about their incident) have related excellent fight stopping ability with their P3AT's loaded with this kind of ammo.

I will ALWAYS much prefer my 1911 in 10mm with lazer grips, but sometimes one just cannot carry so large and heavy of a handgun.

This is a Kel-Tec P3AT 380 clipped into my L.L. Bean shirt pocket.

It weighs 6 ounces, 10 ounces loaded with 7 rounds of 90 gr Gold Dot JHP 1100 fps.

When I put that up against my NAA 6.5 ounce loaded revolver, they both feel the same in my pocket... I can't feel that they are there.

A tox report if you got into any incident at all would show those levels and that would have you considered as "doped up" under the law.

By your own admission, with your "pain issues", you've been doped up and carrying for years. Washington State, and most all states, do NOT have an exception from their under the influence laws for prescription drugs. If you are carrying while under the influence of ANY drug, you are almost assuredly in violation of the law and by legal definition "doped up".

Your operation of a motor vehicle, while on the highways or the drag strips, under the influence of any drug is a clear violation of RCW 46.61. You are no better than the "functional alcoholic" who drives "buzzed" at the level his "big body" can take every day.

Not that any of this, or any law at all, makes any difference to you. Narcissist sociopaths rarely give a damn about anything but themselves and their own selfish desires.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.502

RCW 9.41.098 Forfeiture of firearms—Disposition—Confiscation.

(1) The superior courts and the courts of limited jurisdiction of the state may order forfeiture of a firearm which is proven to be:
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(e) In the possession of a person who is in any place in which a concealed pistol license is required, and who is under the influence of any drug or under the influence of intoxicating liquor, as defined in chapter 46.61 RCW;
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safariman, you've stated before that you have concealed carry permits from several states. Check each state that has issued one to you for their statutes on carrying, open or concealed with or without a license, while under the influence of ANY drug. You will find that your actions are not lawful in every one of those jurisdictions, I suspect.

Thank you for your concern, truly.

I will be off of any Opiate based meds within days and this will no longer be a concern.

Last night, late, we made a wrong turn and ended up in the harbour and insdustrial part of Seattle with lots of homeless and scary looking characters. We were glad that we had some sort of handgun on board while trying to find our way back to the highway. Especially when we had to find a small resteraunt and make a bathroom break.

Ya pays yer fees, and ya takes your chances. My calculated risk has me carrying at least the undetectaable P3AT.

Check the laws; they don't define "opiate based" meds any differently than any other medication. Your gout medication and the associated pain medications likely fall under this statute. Accordingly as well, your DRIVING while under the influence of those medications, whether on the road or on a drag strip, is also against the law.

Play stupid games; win stupid prizes.

I just took a friend to get his sutures taken out after a broken ankle operation.
He THOUGHT he could get through the day with no more Oxycontin, but I had to rush him home to get his pills. It was like a "bite the bullet" movie.

In WA state we can't carry our concealed pistols into a bar. But I put mine away if I am going to have a drink anywhere.

So I'm not supposed to drive after free-basing heroin??? Man, can't we do anything fun anymore???

Better not get behind the wheel with any poppy seeds in your system either, Kevin! It will get you a false THC reading. Just watching out for ya' brother.