I was born in 1971 so this was before my time and thankfully there has been no presidential assassination during my life. I vaguely remember the Reagan attempt but I was young.
Most of my adult life politics has been so polarized that it seems only half the country would be distraught if we had another assassination, depending on whether a D or R was in the White House. The other half could care less and some would actually celebrate it as a good thing.
I just wonder if this was the case after the Kennedy assassination? History tell us that the whole country was in shock and mourning, but was that really the case? For those of you that lived through it, was the whole country really upset or were there large numbers of people who really didn't care?
Guess I'm just wondering if our country has truly changed as much as it seems, or if the great divide has always been part of us and historians just try to smooth it over.
I remember my dad telling me that when a co-worker told him the Kennedy had been killed his reply was "good, I never liked the SOB anyhow" or words to that effect.
I remember my dad telling me that when a co-worker told him the Kennedy had been killed his reply was "good, I never liked the SOB anyhow" or words to that effect.
I've never understood this sentiment. I'm very conservative politically yet have great admiration for JFK. Politically, he would be far to the right of today's republicans and overall was a good president and inspiring leader.
Yes the entire Country was in shock. It consumed tv, radio and printed news non stop. The day of the shooting, Oswald getting taken out and the funeral was TVs first shocking story broadcast across the nation.
It was the beginning of the sixties and the unrest with not only JFK but RFK, MLK and Vietnam.
I was in the 10th grade when President Kennedy was shot and let me assure you that I never heard a single person say they were glad that a President of the United States was killed. The whole country was in morning and the few that may have been happy he was killed kept it to themselves. Kennedy was a moderate that was respected by both the right and left. The country was a peace with each other then and life was much simpler. Then the late sixties and early seventies came and we seemed,as a country,to change forever.
The Kennedy assassination was the beginning of the gun control movement. With the subsequent assassinations of MLK, Jr. and Bobby Kennedy the door was wide open for the gun grabbers and we still suffer because of it. Back to the OP's original, I can't remember a single person I knew that was not saddened.
Somewhat, but the SHTF in 1968 when the Liberals came after all guns. The NRA was damn near swamped at the time but mostly preserved status quo but the bad moon was on the horizon.
I was in the 10th grade when President Kennedy was shot and let me assure you that I never heard a single person say they were glad that a President of the United States was killed. The whole country was in morning and the few that may have been happy he was killed kept it to themselves. Kennedy was a moderate that was respected by both the right and left. The country was a peace with each other then and life was much simpler. Then the late sixties and early seventies came and we seemed,as a country,to change forever.
That's the way I remember it......I was in sixth grade at the time.....
I've always felt that the great JFK legacy was built on 'what might have been' rather than any actual accomplishments. He was a Kennedy. Look how the ones who lived performed.
Before he was killed, a lot of folks wouldn't have been very sorry about his death, but I think the reality of it was quite different. Regardless of how you felt about him, the assassination was a terrible blow to the country, one we've yet to fully recover from. As some have mentioned, compared to what we've got now, he was a prize. At least he knew how to behave in public.
What's most interesting to me is that there's information about his death that's been officially sealed for, I believe, 100 years. To me, that means that it it were revealed, we would have been forced to go to war in retaliation. Logically, that implicates the Cubans and their Soviet masters. None of us will ever know, of course.
In one of W.F. Buckley's spy novels, the hero, Blackford Oakes, has to choose between warning the President about the assassination plot, or stopping a rouge nuclear launch against a U.S. city. Kennedy dies, of course. Given Buckley's connections, it's quite possible that half of that plot, that the assassination is in retaliation for an American attempt on Fidel, is based on fact.
Too many people grab onto the fact that JFK and RFK used the Mob to try and kill Castro. Failing that they then tried to wipe out the Mob. Then, out of the blue a lone nut case, with a Russian Wife, and who lived in Russia for a bit, was shocking lucky to get a job in the Dallas Book Depository 6 weeks before the JFK parade....a parade whose route wasn't finalized until 2 weeks before the election. Then, the original Dallas officer who was supposed to be a hero by killing Oswald on the run got himself killed by Oswald. Then an even odder event in that a Man, with known MOB ties, simply walks up to Oswald and takes him out.
Really crazy story but it's silly for folks to get all worked up over silly conspiracy stories........
11th grade. Rumor started in the yard during lunch. Then back in class (French?) the teacher had a student get a transistor radio to listen to the news. Then an official notice came up from the office.
Kennedy was a good looking man with a beautiful wife, darling kids. At 16 or so we were trying to make sense of it, being not quite adult, but not children either. The whole nation shut down for the funeral, dirges on all the radio stations, and the whole procession and service on TV.
We also got to "see" Ruby shoot Oswald.
I still wonder if Oswald acted alone. I feel great sympathy for Jackie, Caroline, and little John (remember the salute pic?) Also a tragedy for Marina, hope she found some happiness in her next marriage, and a bit of anonymity that came with time.
Up to that time you could order a gun from the back pages of Mechanics Illustrated and other mags, came in the mail. Remember the Carcano was a poor rifle, certainly not an assault weapon. BTW, the round noser bullet was meant to tumble in flesh.
11th grade. Rumor started in the yard during lunch. Then back in class (French?) the teacher had a student get a transistor radio to listen to the news. Then an official notice came up from the office.
Kennedy was a good looking man with a beautiful wife, darling kids. At 16 or so we were trying to make sense of it, being not quite adult, but not children either. The whole nation shut down for the funeral, dirges on all the radio stations, and the whole procession and service on TV.
We also got to "see" Ruby shoot Oswald.
I still wonder if Oswald acted alone. I feel great sympathy for Jackie, Caroline, and little John (remember the salute pic?) Also a tragedy for Marina, hope she found some happiness in her next marriage, and a bit of anonymity that came with time.
Up to that time you could order a gun from the back pages of Mechanics Illustrated and other mags, came in the mail. Remember the Carcano was a poor rifle, certainly not an assault weapon. BTW, the round noser bullet was meant to tumble in flesh.
We certainly were all shocked, but after his death it came out that there were so many people who potentially wanted him dead, from the Vice President, Mob, Castro and the CIA it's surprising he lasted as long as he did.
I agree with you. This country was not the same then. I was young and in high school but we did not have all the issues we face today. I think JFK would be considered conservative today or at least very moderate.
I didn't know about his private affairs and the way the Kennedy's got their money. All I knew was that he was a genuine war hero, he showed he had balls over Cuba, he was young and had a magnetic personality.
I was very saddened when he was assassinated. When I lived in Prince William County, Virginia I can remember when Washington, DC was inviting hunters to come in and shoot pigeons to control them. After the assassination that all stopped. Little Teddy and old Sen. Thomas Dodd of Massachusetts helped start all the gun control crap and it's never stopped.
This country is indeed in a very sad state of affairs and with the mentality of a lot of American citizens, I think it will only get worse.
From where we were in that time, I would say everyone was shocked and sad.. Although my family were Republicans they were up set.. I think later my view changed when we learned how the Kennedy's got their money, and what a womanizer JFK was..
Personally, I am feel that Oswald was set up.. I have seen reports that 3 men killed JFK, and at the time of the report 2 were still alive.. Also did a great deal of reading on LBJ.. Again I am certain if he didn't have a hand in JFK's death, he surely had a hand in the cover up. If EVER there was a dirty SOB it was LBJ.. He permitted the race riots to go on and on, pushed us into a war we could not win, and I think it was to keep the nation from demanding more information on JFK's death.. WE HAVE A SIMILAR LOW LIFE IN THE WHITE HOUSE THIS DAY!!!
More of shock than anything else. I lived in the deep south at the time.
$19.95 Caracano from Kleins in Chicago. Shipped via US Postal Service directly to Oswald.
I had two of the same rifles. That long slender 160 grainer was devastating on wild hogs and deer.
The day after the assassination I made a head shot on a big boar with the 6.5. Totally blew the skull up scattering brains all over the place. I said to myself "Bet it was a real mess in that Lincoln".
Watched Ruby shoot Oswald on live TV.
The Saturday morning edition of the Florida Times Union (Jacksonville) had a big photo of a cop holding a M94 with the lever racked open. Caption said: This is the gun that killed Kennedy.
Hmmm.
Later in life I watched a lot of the conspiracy theory TV shows. One even said there was a second shooter behind the fence with a take down M99 Savage. Witness reports said the guy that had it pulled the barrel, wrapped both pieces in a coat and disappeared into the crowd.
Another report says there was a bullet hole in the Lincoln windshield, entering from the front.
In 1963 I was just at that age ( 10) where I believed what my elders and those in authority told me. In pretty short order it gradually came to light that our own Govt. had Kennedy snuffed...with LBJ at the helm. If they are capable of that, then they are capable of anything. The fall from innocence was then complete. Events of the next decade...continuing on up to the present have done nothing but confirm......
I was in 8th grade english class when the teacher announced that school was being dismissed because the president had been assassinated...I found it kind of surreal..
From where we were in that time, I would say everyone was shocked and sad.. Although my family were Republicans they were up set.. I think later my view changed when we learned how the Kennedy's got their money, and what a womanizer JFK was..
Personally, I am feel that Oswald was set up.. I have seen reports that 3 men killed JFK, and at the time of the report 2 were still alive.. Also did a great deal of reading on LBJ.. Again I am certain if he didn't have a hand in JFK's death, he surely had a hand in the cover up. If EVER there was a dirty SOB it was LBJ.. He permitted the race riots to go on and on, pushed us into a war we could not win, and I think it was to keep the nation from demanding more information on JFK's death.. WE HAVE A SIMILAR LOW LIFE IN THE WHITE HOUSE THIS DAY!!!
Funny you should say that WCH......my grand dad owned a ranch in West Texas that LBJ liked to come and hunt on so most of the family was pretty familiar with him.....every one of them I ever talked to about the matter was convinced that LBJ was involved....
Taxes at the time was extremely high paying off war debt, hell some countries are still paying it off, England I think just recently cleared its books a year or two ago!
Kennedy would be a conservative today, he was a life member of the NRA. My mom said he was a Yankee version of Bill Clinton, the press just kept things like that quite back then.
One weird thing on JFK. Why was LBJ laying on the floor of his limo 40 seconds before the first shot?
Moreover why did LBJ want to ramp up VietNam? Was it a coincidence that Ladybird owned controlling interest in Lone Star Concrete and they were awarded the military contracts for all the airstrips in Viet Nam?
Just a Frinstance....
LBJ had our boys get killed by the thousands, just so he could make a buck. I will never be done hating him for that.
In 1963 I was just at that age ( 10) where I believed what my elders and those in authority told me. In pretty short order it gradually came to light that our own Govt. had Kennedy snuffed...with LBJ at the helm. If they are capable of that, then they are capable of anything. The fall from innocence was then complete. Events of the next decade...continuing on up to the present have done nothing but confirm......
Not to be grisly, but I always thought the Zapruder film made it look like Kennedy was hit in the right forehead.
I think he absolutely was.It has alway looked obvious to me from his reaction to the shot. I can only guess what that means....but it has always made me suspicious.
I was in junior high,in Massachusetts where I was raised. The family was of course Democrats but not the Democrats we have today. Old school working class people.
Everyone was very upset,shocked really. Very sad.
But back then I was far too young to have any understanding of the differences in political ideology.
I don't remember [bleep] about the assassination, because I was about two years old, being babysitted/babysat? by my Grandpa about two miles away from here. Things moved a lot slower in those days though and I remember being shocked when the movie JFK came out and they had parts with people in bars celebrating. In the years after the assassination, I don't know of anybody who thought it was a good thing. By the time JFK came out though, you had a good hatred of Democrats worked up plus you had a lot of things about JFK behind-the-scenes that had either come to light or been dummied up. So by then and certainly afterwards, you had a lot of revisionist thought about JFK.
I don't doubt that there were extremists at the time, that celebrated his death, but I don't believe for a moment, that it was widespread.
The brain, being mostly water, detonates like a gallon jug. If you ever make it to the Plaza, you will see just how close the shot was from the window, and the implausibility of a frontal shot. That and of course the autopsy. Clearly a rear shot.
hmmmm,..I dunno. Here's a zoomed in version. It sure looks like a frontal impact to me. Not only because of the way his head is knocked to the left but also because of all the matter that "splats" all over the place from his forehead area. In any event, it's far too late to worry about now. But I remeber the first time I saw the Zapruder film and thought WTF?
Up until then I never gave much thought to questioning the official report on the subject.
Watching that, I've always suspected Jackie went out on the trunk lid to get part of his head! I was born in '65 so I can't say for certain, but I don't think the country was nearly as divided as today. As some have said, JFK politically was probably further right of Rubio and Jeb Bush. That, the fact that he was a war hero, and the threat of the boogie man in the Soviet Union United the country behind him. There were probably a few that voiced a small satisfaction privately, but I'd say the majority were shocked and saddened by his death. 7mm
The first shot that hit Kennedy in the lower neck region from the back. You can see his hands come up to his throat in the video. The bullet came out in the middle of the lower neck where the soft hole is located on everyone. As you can also tell from the video, the bullet drives him forward in the seat...not backward. There is no way in my opinion that the head shot came from the rear. It could have only come from the right front. No amount of scientific bull hockey is going to change my mind on this issue.
The mob helped us win WWII when Lucky Luciano ordered the guys on the docks to cooperate w/the government in every way possible. The mob thought by helping the country win the war that after the war they would be left alone to do their business. Instead Bobby Kennedy comes along and starts attacking them from every angle. This upset the mob to no end so they took out John F first and when Bobby wouldn't stop they killed him in '68. You conspiracy theorists can work out the details. powdr
This might sound off the wall, but I always figured there were 2 shooters. Oswald with the 6.5 Carcano and someone else with a high velocity 22 caliber like a 22-250 or something. I'm not sure what varmint bullets were available in that time period, but I'm guessing a few were fairly explosive. I can't see the relatively low velocity 6.5 Carcano doing much damage myself especially with the heavy jacketed FMJ bullets of the time period even on a head shot. To answer the the question yes I've seen the results of headshots of 5.56, 7.62 for sure and maybe one 50 cal.
I was in high school algebra class when the principals office put the radio on the PA and we heard Walter Cronkite announcing that the President had been shot. It was a different culture in the U.S. at that time. We were not nearly as polarized as today altho there were indications that the country was on the road to hell. Conspiracy theory's started about ten minutes after Ruby shot Oswald and haven't stopped yet. I remember my Dad saying Oswald was shot to shut him up.
I was sitting in a Chicago high school classroom when a male student out in the hall flung our door open and with a look of shock, dread and grief on his face shrieked out over and over, "President Kennedy was just killed".
Chicago was and still is a heavily 'Democrat Machine' run city with a large population of Catholics and Irish, so needless to say JFK was extremely popular. Jack and Jackie were like celebrity rock stars of that era.
I don't recall hearing any outward expression of happiness that JFK was dead by anybody.
Not much for conspiracy theories myself, but if there truly was a conspiracy of some kind, I doubt there's any chance that the whole truth will ever be revealed to the public, regardless how much time has passed.
I'll admit, though, the .221 Fireball theory does intrigue me a bit.
I heard about it from our 8th grade English teacher, who had moved to East Texas from Mississippi. I can testify that he was not shocked or saddened when he told us! Also don't remember being let out of school for the rest of the day, but could have happened.
What I don't agree with is that details of the assassination had been covered up for over 100 years, since it has not been 100 years since it happened!
I was sitting in my 2nd grade class and remember the principle announcing it over the intercom. Our teacher burst into tears as did several of the others. One interesting thing is as 2nd grades we knew who he was and that he was the president. I wonder if that would be the case today. Anyway It was really a big deal and while I am sure that while some didn't like him for various reasons people were much more respectful and for the most part more dignified than the general population today so no there was no celebratory conversations other than maybe between the most cloistered of friends. Of course there wasn't the Internet where people easily forget themselves and revert to the conduct of adolescent junior high jerks.
We certainly were all shocked, but after his death it came out that there were so many people who potentially wanted him dead, from the Vice President, Mob, Castro and the CIA it's surprising he lasted as long as he did.
Plus:
The Federal Reserve advocates, Kennedy was in the process of making it disappear.
Military/Industrial complex, Kennedy was going to pull out of Viet Nam.
The great majority of Americans were shocked and sadden by what happen on that day. My mother was in tears. Walter Cronkite was visibly shaken when he announced it on TV. Virtually everyone watched the funeral procession, horse drawn casket, boots turned backwards. The country was numbed by the assasination.
One thing about it, there's sort of a whole "cottage industry" writing and publishing books about JFK and the assassination. Gerald Posner's "Case Closed" lays out a very good argument that Oswald acted alone. But even in that book, there are many stories tying Oswald to the CIA. Even if you're inclined to believe the "Lone Nut Gunman" theory, it's pretty hard to ignore the CIA links. It's true that when something like this happens to someone as loved as JFK, you just want to read more into it. That's to be understood. But I still believe it was a coup. 7mm
I was in the second grade, living in a small enclave in far western, rural Kentucky. I don't recall anyone having any emotional reaction to the event. When one lives in 40253, world events happen in a galaxy far, far away. Emotion doesn't figure into it because one is only very vaguely connected to them.
We had an old Motorola television that was considered a little bit fancy for the time because it had a dial which was a series of buttons configured in a circular pattern.
To change channels, you pushed the button next to the number of the channel you wanted and it would mechanically rotate until it got there.
hmm-CLICK, hmm-CLICK, hmm-CLICK, hmm-CLICK
I barely remember the mechanical function of the dial because it quit working shortly after dad bought the TV, so we'd just grab the knob and turn it manually.
The antennae was mounted on a steel pole about 18' tall and positioned next to a window in our living room. The NBC affiliate was WPSD-TV in Paducah, Kentucky,..the ABC affiliate was WSIL-TV in Harrisburg, Illinois, the CBS affiliate was KFVS-TV in Cape Girardeau, Missouri.
WPSD always came in good. KFVS was also okay,..to pick up WSIL required the ability to be able to reach your arm out the window and finely tune the antennae by turning the pole while looking over your shoulder at the TV screen.
We all sat for several days watching the events on that old black and white Motorola,....switching between the 3 channels and adjusting the antennae pole to make sure we received the latest breaking news.
Stunned more than anything. My folks could see the man's character even though the media put up a great facade. Somehow they knew the Kennedys were power hungry, womanizing, insider whisky traders.
I believe the back flip at the CNS hit is nothing more than back arching like a brain shot gopher. IMO, the film is consistent with two shots from the back. When I was a kid, my buddy shot a doe running away and hit her in the back of the cranial vault and the brains blew out in a superior anterior direction.
I was underneath a duece and a half changing a sprag unit along with my buddy from Jacksboro Tx.
A Yankee S/Sgt with an Italian name stuck his head under the truck and asked.... seriously.." What's wrong with you people in Texas ? Somebody just shot the President in Dallas."
Kennedy was not well liked in Texas. LBJ had given JFK a good fight for the nomination. In fact, at the Dem Convention, Old Man Kennedy made a trip to Lyndon's room with a briefcase and left without it. He returned a little later with a second briefcase.
That night, LBJ released his delegates to JFK and got the VP slot to go along with the cash.
Then,that Fall, I was stationed at Camp Pendleton and dated a girl in the San Fernando Valley. Her dad was a die hard Nixon guy, and we had to listen to his taped speeches while eating supper. That Nixon /JFK election campaign was not all sweetness and light by far.
The Country finally got a Republican President after the FDR/Truman years and Nixon was the heir apparent to IKE.
So, JFK was not the loved and revered figure that emerged after his death. And giving him and Bobby a pass on Vietnam, blaming it all on LBJ is gross revisionist history. Who bought into the "Domino theory" in SEA which caused the Vietnam war? The Kennedy boys.
Who put missiles in Turkey which led to missiles in Cuba? Not the VP, Lyndon Baines Johnson.
Johnson was responsible for "The Great Society" and he deserves the blame for not leaving Vietnam, but the Kennedy boys should shoulder their share, as well.
Half the country hated JFK until he was killed. The anger and grief was because someone killed the POTUS, not because they killed JFK.
I was in my 11th grade English class. Only the teacher cried. He was in love with JFK. Our HS, however, was very conservative.
Most of us were well aware of his bungling the Bay of Pigs invasion and how he just let the Russians build the Berlin wall.
The Russians were just harassing the US at the time and didn't expect to see the barricades standing by the end of the second day. When Kennedy pizzed down his leg and didn't do squat, the Russians had to scramble and follow through.
In north Louisiana where I grew up, about half the people said they were glad he was out of office, but hated to see him killed. The other half were glad he had been killed. I was a college sophomore at the time, and there was no widespread grief on the campus. Frankly, nobody was all that keen on LBJ, either.
I remember my mother crying after the assassination. I remember asking her why she was crying. I asked her why she was crying because I thought she was ideologically opposed to him. She tried to explain as best she could that it is not a good thing when a country can't protect it's leaders.
I don't recall anyone feeling it was a good thing for conservatives. I don't recall politics being nearly as polarized.
This event came shortly after some very frightening drama in Cuba. Still reeling from that it seems like in the next few years other events were frightening - demonstrations, - anti-war, civil rights, 68 convention. Murders - King, another Kennedy, the Manson murders.
It just seemed like we had much less luxury of fighting among ourselves because there was other stuff to worry about.
JFK would not have supported an assault rifle ban......
That's a nonsensical statement. When I was a kid, I can remember handguns, a type of weapon as a class even more common than "assault weapons" being pretty uncommon amongst regular folks. My sense of it is that though a lot were probably owned, people were a lot less open about it. Most of the parents and their cronies would tell a kid, "a handgun will just get you in trouble". NOBODY was encouraged to own one. The thought that you were more likely to shoot yourself than successfully defend yourself with one was widespread. Deer in Kansas were almost non-existent and the thought that one "needed" a "big game" rifle was scoffed at. Lots of people claimed they had 30-30's or Mausers to shoot coyotes with. Some went to Colorado to hunt deer. That was about it.
WWII weapons were cool, because most of these old guys had used them in that war or Korea-but civilian or legal versions were non-existent other than some gun somebody had brought back from parts or that some REMF had stolen. There were NO AR's around. They simply weren't there. I doubt AR's even started gaining much in popularity until the Vietnam War was almost over.
So if an AWB was to be instituted, nobody would care. Why would JFK have balked at it, even if the other assassinations hadn't happened? If the Dems were for it, JFK would have been. Johnson would have too.
I was in the second grade, living in a small enclave in far western, rural Kentucky. I don't recall anyone having any emotional reaction to the event. When one lives in 40253, world events happen in a galaxy far, far away. Emotion doesn't figure into it because one is only very vaguely connected to them.
We had an old Motorola television that was considered a little bit fancy for the time because it had a dial which was a series of buttons configured in a circular pattern.
To change channels, you pushed the button next to the number of the channel you wanted and it would mechanically rotate until it got there.
hmm-CLICK, hmm-CLICK, hmm-CLICK, hmm-CLICK
I barely remember the mechanical function of the dial because it quit working shortly after dad bought the TV, so we'd just grab the knob and turn it manually.
The antennae was mounted on a steel pole about 18' tall and positioned next to a window in our living room. The NBC affiliate was WPSD-TV in Paducah, Kentucky,..the ABC affiliate was WSIL-TV in Harrisburg, Illinois, the CBS affiliate was KFVS-TV in Cape Girardeau, Missouri.
WPSD always came in good. KFVS was also okay,..to pick up WSIL required the ability to be able to reach your arm out the window and finely tune the antennae by turning the pole while looking over your shoulder at the TV screen.
We all sat for several days watching the events on that old black and white Motorola,....switching between the 3 channels and adjusting the antennae pole to make sure we received the latest breaking news.
Bristoe, that is some funny stuff. You must have grown up in a parallel universe to my Dad, who grew up in Marion, IL.
Always cracks me up when the uneducated want to call those folks yankees. lol
The brain, being mostly water, detonates like a gallon jug. If you ever make it to the Plaza, you will see just how close the shot was from the window, and the implausibility of a frontal shot. That and of course the autopsy. Clearly a rear shot.
I will take Jorge's observation a step farther. If you ever make it up to the Book Depository floor near where Oswald took the shot (the exact window is blocked off), you will know that fella in the limo didn't stand a chance.
He was moving away in a straight line and slight downward slope.
I was born in 1971 so this was before my time and thankfully there has been no presidential assassination during my life. I vaguely remember the Reagan attempt but I was young.
Most of my adult life politics has been so polarized that it seems only half the country would be distraught if we had another assassination, depending on whether a D or R was in the White House. The other half could care less and some would actually celebrate it as a good thing.
I just wonder if this was the case after the Kennedy assassination? History tell us that the whole country was in shock and mourning, but was that really the case? For those of you that lived through it, was the whole country really upset or were there large numbers of people who really didn't care?
Guess I'm just wondering if our country has truly changed as much as it seems, or if the great divide has always been part of us and historians just try to smooth it over.
we were a different country then, even Democrats were pro American and for the middle class
I believe everyone was deeply effected by the assassination. I was only 5 years old and it's one of my first really strong memories.
I know my family grieved, don't know whether they voted for him, but they grieved for our nation's loss of it's president
This is one of the most fun and perhaps tragic things to study and teach as a History teacher. I think that J. Edgar Hoover hated the Kennedy's. He might have had a ton of dirt on them but probably felt that LBJ was much easier to manipulate (Bobby Kennedy was probably a real pain in the butt and not the kind that Hoover liked). I don't want no flame war but Papa Pilgrim (Robert Hale son of famous FBI agent and family friend with LBJ) and his murder of Connelly's daughter(Was this to keep people quiet) and the subsequent murder of several folks by armed breakins with 20 gauge shotguns which were not investigated are just strange and crooked. Several wealthy Texans including the Hunts supported LBJ. Roger Stone wrote a very interesting book and he didn't look at the Hale connections. Makes you go hmmmm!
Warren commission was pretty comprehensive and modern forensics seems to support commission report but there are outliers and black swans like the man with the umbrella and the shennigans with the Hales that make me think that Johnson worked with Hoover.
One weird thing on JFK. Why was LBJ laying on the floor of his limo 40 seconds before the first shot?
Moreover why did LBJ want to ramp up VietNam? Was it a coincidence that Ladybird owned controlling interest in Lone Star Concrete and they were awarded the military contracts for all the airstrips in Viet Nam?
Just a Frinstance....
LBJ had our boys get killed by the thousands, just so he could make a buck. I will never be done hating him for that.
Yep. We are the same age, the older we get the more that it becomes apparent that JFK was killed for greed. And clandestine business going on by people in high places. We were actually pretty naive then, believing that everyone was out for the greater good ........
Our country was diffrent back then. Politics were not as rabid or extreme, both sides had manners and respect, and could work togther to actually accomplish things. No one in my town expressed anything but shock and disbelief when JFK was killed. The whole Oswald/Ruby/lone gunman deal seemed pretty fishy, even to a fourth grader.
The brain, being mostly water, detonates like a gallon jug. If you ever make it to the Plaza, you will see just how close the shot was from the window, and the implausibility of a frontal shot. That and of course the autopsy. Clearly a rear shot.
One thing about it, there's sort of a whole "cottage industry" writing and publishing books about JFK and the assassination. Gerald Posner's "Case Closed" lays out a very good argument that Oswald acted alone. But even in that book, there are many stories tying Oswald to the CIA. Even if you're inclined to believe the "Lone Nut Gunman" theory, it's pretty hard to ignore the CIA links. It's true that when something like this happens to someone as loved as JFK, you just want to read more into it. That's to be understood. But I still believe it was a coup. 7mm
Posner did an excellent job of dismissing out of hand any evidence that contradicted what he wanted to conclude. The only one better at that was Vincent as he Boogalooed down Osi.
Standing at a band saw in JR High wood shop, when the teacher yelled for us to shutup. He never raised his voice so instant quiet. Next thing I recall, we were all listening to a table top wooden tube radio around his desk.
I don't think we the public, will ever know the whole truth of that assassination.
The only other incidents to even begin to affect the public as much since, were Challenger in the 80's and 1911.
My family HATED the Kennedys, but nobody was happy about the shooting.
The country changed starting in 1966 in a big way. It was young vs old (over 30 and under 30). The antiwar movement started a political rift, that along with the Civil Rights movement that has never healed.
Patriotism became an anathema to liberals and Blacks. America was evil and the establishment was corrupt and needed to fall.
That is your genesis for today's Dem Party. They hate America and everything that made it great. Hence anti capitalists, open boarders, spurning religions and a good work ethic is what they are about.
Class envy sprouted from those who could not afford college to avoid the draft and protest.
Only good things about the '60 were cars and music.
The assassination affected me deeply as at the time I was in the Air Force stationed on a TDY to assist Kennedy's pilots with their weather briefings. Kennedy came into the office and came up to me, shook my hand as was starting to say something when my ahole CO came up, started to chew me out for bothering the President and Kennedy flat out put him in his place. Fast forward to when I was stationed at Osan AFB in Korea. About two in the morning some dude starts beating on my barracks window and when I opened it, he says the Presidents been shot. I got up and went to the rec room, turns on the TV and sure as hell, he's been shot. At that time it was not known if he was alive or dead. The call came from our office e to report immediately and draw arms and ammo. Next thing I knew I was on the base perimeter with a loaded M2 carbine and three spare 30 round magazines. My orders were to holler halt three times in English and Korean and they didn't answer up shoot. Kind of a shaky night as we had no idea if the North Koreans hadn't decided to come down and raise hell again. No, I remember the whole deal vividly. What makes it worse is JFK was not something on a screen for me but a real human being whose hand I proudly shook. Paul B.
There was a lot of political opposition to JFK and the media treated him like Obama. No one was happy he was shot, or very few anyway, but the real tragedy was it opened the door for LBJ and it's been mostly downhill ever since.
I do remember the Kennedy assassination and believe me......at least in Texas.....there were very few tears shed over JFK being shot. In fact MANY were quite happy about Kennedy's shooting.
Of course this was before anyone realized what a disaster LBJ was going to be.
It was only after 24-48 hours that it hit home that Kennedy really didn't matter.....the tragedy was that the President of the United States had been killed. This was very upsetting, but the fact that Kennedy had been eliminated was hardly a reason to grieve.
west: Yeah.....OK. I have heard that. ...and not doubting you. But...
If someone whacked you in the temple with a hammer from the front which way would your head move?
Is the central nervous system that fast to overcome the physical force from behind and move into it?
I mean i am not forensic guy nor a (what do they call them?) a physiologist? I really don't know....
As one who has 'tested' a lot of bullets in a lot of mediums and many and varied distances..........and had to wipe paint off from the guns I've used - when I've "used up" old paint as test media, I don't trust the way the target moves as a way of determining direction of impact.
Maybe i should attend that sale Jorg brought to my attention.
I guess my doubts about the Warren Commission conclusions stems from the fact that I really do not believe a F(*%$in thing that the Federal Government tells me about almost anything.
I am a chronic,carping skeptic. I believe "nothing" they say,and this goes back a long ways.
I offer the current administration as another in a very long list of examples.
It seems strange that some on here insisted we respect McCain despite years of weird, erratic and near treasonous behavior, due to his war hero status, while reviling JFK whose own war hero status was unquestionable.
I do remember the Kennedy assassination and believe me......at least in Texas.....there were very few tears shed over JFK being shot. In fact MANY were quite happy about Kennedy's shooting.
Of course this was before anyone realized what a disaster LBJ was going to be.
It was only after 24-48 hours that it hit home that Kennedy really didn't matter.....the tragedy was that the President of the United States had been killed. This was very upsetting, but the fact that Kennedy had been eliminated was hardly a reason to grieve.
I have to call BS on this. I've lived in and spent a lot of time in Texas. I have a lot of relatives there. Texas today is entirely different politically...party-wise, than it was in the sixties. Texas was almost entirely Democrat and while Kennedy wasn't a native son, he wasn't reviled like some Yankee carpetbagging Republican.
I lived in England when Kennedy was shot...We had gone there in the Summer of 1963, from living in No VA....
We were sitting at the dinner table watching TV, the BBC news channel. The Announcer reported that JFK had been shot in Dallas TX earlier in the day ( this was 4 or 5 hours later than East Coast Time)... A little time later the news caster got a phone call while on the air and pulled up a phone and was talking on it a few seconds and then hung up... the way he announced it, was " we wish to offer our Sympathies, as does all of Britain, to all the Americans who are stationed here in Britain.. John F Kennedy, President of the United States has been pronounced dead in Dallas Texas USA"....and then they went to a commercial ( which was unusual for British TV as they did their commercials in between TV shows, not breaks like American TV did...
My dad was on Duty as they were having a NATO Alert at the time on all Air Force Bases in England... I remember my mom started crying.... and I was sadden, and did not know quite what to think...I don't think my younger two brothers had a clue what was going on.. I was in the 6th grade...
As I've gotten older, I have come to know the Kennedy Administration was not what people thought it was at the time.... Kennedy, like Obama, was really a puppet of those that were controlling the governments behind the scenes...
Kennedy was kept on drugs to function due to a lot of debilitation from WW 2 injuries....
At the time, most people forget that due to his war injuries, in 1963 Kennedy did not have very long left to live. He would not have survived his second term of office.
I don't believe Oswald managed to kill Kennedy at all.. if nothing else, because of the Carcano he had, with a cheap Tasco scope on top he paid $20 for the entire package delivered... If anyone has ever held a Carcano, its had to believe anyone could do a head shot at 50 yds with it.. much less 400 yds on a moving target....
I've read stuff about even those in the Democratic Party were worried about a Kennedy dynasty, John followed by Bobby, and then Teddy...
another theory I always thought was interesting, but you don't hear much about it...
That was a theory that knowing he was not going to see another 24 months to live, Kennedy has actually ordered and arranged his own assassination... he just didn't want to know when it would happen.... the whole reason was that with an assassination, he would go down in history as a hero....
Kennedy was popular, but he wasn't as popular as a lot of people think he was nationally in 1963....
His family made their money in bootlegging breaking US law...they were connected to criminals and also to corrupt Government officials up and down the eastern seaboard...at all levels...
Secondly his dad, was pro Nazi and as ambassador to Britain in 1940, was telling the Roosevelt Administration that the USA should normalize relations with Germany, as it was easily going to defeat Britain...
The more you look beyond the fairy tale that made up the Kennedys, you can see the cracks in the whole picture...
JFK was a big of a womanizer as Bill Clinton...he had screwed up the entire invasion of Cuba, leaving Cuban forces stranded on the beach at the Bay of Pigs, and gave no support once the invasion went south...he had major connections to organized crime, that dated back to his dad's bootlegging days... he was corrupt as hell...
regardless of being a war hero...
my mom worked in his office when he first came to DC as a Senator...he was personal enough, then even tho she worked there only a year or so, before getting a job in the Pentagon.. our family got a Christmas Card from him ( really sent out by his staff to a long list of people) right up thru 1962...
I think the biggest shock was that the President of the US had been assassinated...not necessarily because it was JFK..
every one seemed to forgive him of his transgressions, after his assassination...
and then we ended up with LBJ....
as side note I always thought was typical government... after Kennedy's death, Johnson was on Air Force One Flying back to Washington DC.... he wasn't automatically President.. he still had to swear the oath of office...
For over 30 minutes we had no President, because no one on Air Force One knew where to find the Presidential Oath of Office.... it was a lowly intern, who knew it was found in the Constitution....then they had to ravage AF ONE to find a copy of it...If only the commies knew that at the time...
I don't believe Oswald managed to kill Kennedy at all.. if nothing else, because of the Carcano he had, with a cheap Tasco scope on top he paid $20 for the entire package delivered... If anyone has ever held a Carcano, its had to believe anyone could do a head shot at 50 yds with it.. much less 400 yds on a moving target....
I don't think Oswald shot at Kennedy at all. The shot was not an easy one but it was not 400 yards either. It was something like 60-70 yards, IIRC.
One weird thing on JFK. Why was LBJ laying on the floor of his limo 40 seconds before the first shot?
Moreover why did LBJ want to ramp up VietNam? Was it a coincidence that Ladybird owned controlling interest in Lone Star Concrete and they were awarded the military contracts for all the airstrips in Viet Nam?
Just a Frinstance....
LBJ had our boys get killed by the thousands, just so he could make a buck. I will never be done hating him for that.
This^^^
And it still continues. Fred, a Friend of our Family worked for this outfit in Vietnam building these Airstrips. He stated that this was exactly the case and Goal. He said when you hear the words "To protect American Interests" it had better raise your hackles because the MIC is the only thing they are "interested" in protecting, Period.
Fred was a little biased though. He became a bit biased after spending one and a half years as a Civilian in a Prison Camp he swears was located in Cambodia. They buried him alive in a box for 30 days feeding him Rice and Water through a Tube in attempts to get information about the companies future "Project Locations".
Eisenhower Warned us in his 1961 Farewell speech about what was to come. Kennedy was spending funds in the wrong direction with the Space Program and these Companies didn't like it. It had to be nipped in the Bud and fixed as soon as possible. LBJ did this for them.
I just spent 6 years studying the connections and who all happens to have vested interests in the MIC and the results are incredible. They are ALL dirty in this scheme for our tax Dollars. There are actually just as many "Antiwar" Democrats who stand to personally profit behind these Companies as there are Conservative "Patriots".
Yet, we continue to let them yank our Chains and play us as Fools. How can so many be so Blind?
Good link...There are some very good questions raised in this Article.
"The experts from the US Army and the FBI who had tested the rifle discovered that it was actually not usable in its original state: •Shims had to be applied to the telescopic sight before the rifle could be aimed.1 •Even after the telescopic sight had been repaired, it proved unreliable and inaccurate.2 •The condition of both the bolt and the trigger pull meant that the rifle could not be aimed accurately.3
The rifle discovered on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository could not have caused any of the wounds to Kennedy, Connally or Tague, except by accident"
And then there is the question of how a very worn out Carcano could have been cycled and accurately aimed for 3 shots within 6 seconds.
It seems strange that some on here insisted we respect McCain despite years of weird, erratic and near treasonous behavior, due to his war hero status, while reviling JFK whose own war hero status was unquestionable.
War hero? Might want to check out his awards and decorations...
The Federal Gov't has a hell of a time keeping real secrets, like NSA activity, names of agents, and submarine design.
If a large conspiracy was involved to knock off JFK, it's hard to believe that it didn't leak somehow, or no deathbed confessions occurred in all this time. Even if there was such a conspiracy, taking a shot at a guy in a moving car is a low percentage move. Likewise, JFK had his skeletons. If this conspiracy wanted JFK gone, it would have been much safer to arrange for one of his mistresses to go public, or otherwise badly damage him, without the risk of killing him.
I do think it was sad, he cut taxes, was a moderate. I also think the major political assassinations of the 60's is one reason why the left became so violently anti-American, to the point of treason in some cases.
I was in the 8th grade and our principal announced over the intercom that he had been shot. Funny how one remembers such things but I remember there was no school on the day of his funeral and I went rabbit hunting. JFK was mostly well liked, but there were people who didn't like him because he was a Catholic and a rich Bostonian. After he was killed, a lot of stuff came to light that started all the conspiracy theories. My take on all that is that surely by now something would have come to light, and it has not. Still, there has always been something about his assassination that just does not pass the smell test.
Final Judgment is, beyond question, the most “controversial”—and certainly the most widely denounced—book on what is perhaps the most writtenabout subject in American history . . . Yet, most of those who have so hysterically condemned this book have never even read it . . . Critics viciously attack the author, but they refuse to debate him . . . This is the one book on the JFK assassination that no major publisher dared print . . . Despite all this, those open-minded individuals who have dared to read Final Judgment—including some very well-known names—have concluded that this book is the one book that most completely outlines the entirety of the conspiracy that took the life of John F. Kennedy. Final Judgment presents what the author, Michael Collins Piper, calls “the other side of the jigsaw puzzle”—the long-ignored, but otherwise freely available details (all found in “mainstream” literature), which present a stark new light on the circumstances surrounding JFK’s assassination. This book demonstrates the strong likelihood Israel’s intelligence service, the Mossad, collaborated alongside the CIA and the Meyer Lansky Crime Syndicate in the JFK assassination because President Kennedy was working to prevent Israel from acquiring nuclear weapons of mass destruction, a fact that remained a dark secret for decades. However, because it was not until the mid-1980’s that the truth about President Kennedy’s behind-the-scenes war with Israel emerged, many otherwise diligent JFK assassination researchers never considered the possibility Israel did have good reason to align with other powerful forces that wanted to remove JFK from the White House. Once you’ve read Final Judgment you will see the evidence of likely Israeli involvement is there. Although first published in 1994, only one newspaper, a small Washington-based weekly, even mentioned the book. Despite that, Final Judgment has now sold more than 40,000 copies, achieving he proverbial status of “underground” bestseller. Yet most Americans never heard of this groundbreaking historical bombshell or of its controversial thesis. (Continued on inside back cover . . .)
It seems strange that some on here insisted we respect McCain despite years of weird, erratic and near treasonous behavior, due to his war hero status, while reviling JFK whose own war hero status was unquestionable.
War hero? Might want to check out his awards and decorations...
Kennedy and his entire crew were asleep when that Japanese destroyer rammed their PT.
I think the frantic attempts at a cover-up, including the botched autopsy was because all the .gov agencies assumed that ONE of them had been behind it.
The Federal Gov't has a hell of a time keeping real secrets, like NSA activity, names of agents, and submarine design.
If a large conspiracy was involved to knock off JFK, it's hard to believe that it didn't leak somehow, or no deathbed confessions occurred in all this time. Even if there was such a conspiracy, taking a shot at a guy in a moving car is a low percentage move. Likewise, JFK had his skeletons. If this conspiracy wanted JFK gone, it would have been much safer to arrange for one of his mistresses to go public, or otherwise badly damage him, without the risk of killing him.
I do think it was sad, he cut taxes, was a moderate. I also think the major political assassinations of the 60's is one reason why the left became so violently anti-American, to the point of treason in some cases.
TATELAW: I was alive and well (in high school) during the time in question and EVERY American I heard comment on the horrific and unforgivable crime perpetrated on our President AND on our country/political system! Both of my parents were Democrats at the time (a situation that was CORRECTED a few years later by both of them!) and they took this assassination hard. All of my high school teachers were devastated. I even felt great sadness and confusion. INDEED... things have changed - if a similar situation were to occur today (and God forbid it should!) I can foresee much celebration and dancing in the streets! Again heaven forbid that should happen - that is NOT how are political system should work. But the "divide" (as you describe it) in today's political wings is 20 times more defined and bitter than it was in the 1960's. I do fear that politics in America will turn violent in the future more and more often. Witness the stompings and stabbings at yesterdays pro and con political gathering in Anaheim.
I was born in 1971 so this was before my time and thankfully there has been no presidential assassination during my life. I vaguely remember the Reagan attempt but I was young.
Most of my adult life politics has been so polarized that it seems only half the country would be distraught if we had another assassination, depending on whether a D or R was in the White House. The other half could care less and some would actually celebrate it as a good thing.
I just wonder if this was the case after the Kennedy assassination? History tell us that the whole country was in shock and mourning, but was that really the case? For those of you that lived through it, was the whole country really upset or were there large numbers of people who really didn't care?
Guess I'm just wondering if our country has truly changed as much as it seems, or if the great divide has always been part of us and historians just try to smooth it over.
In general the Country was shocked and saddened, much more than it would be today. What happened after that was more significant. When a staunch communist sympathizer LH Oswald acted, the "left" quickly turned the blame on the rightwing in Texas. The left refused to believe, that one of their own would have done this. This became their "mission statement" and they became increasingly more radical and resulted in where they are today.
There's been so many possibilities written over the years that "who knows"?
I *do* believe that the Warren Commission realized that something other than the official story had happened, but I don't know if any of them were involved or had any idea what the real story was.
It's plainly obvious that they punted on the single bullet theory. (Saying that the bullet which passed through Kennedy's neck was the same one that wounded Governor Connely)
JFK was the beginning of the end and was killed by a single communist. The conspiracy theories were promoted by liberals to cover up it was done by one of there own.
If the Zapruder film is broken down frame by frame it's evident that Connelly gets hit a significant length of time after Kennedy.
Kennedy is holding his throat and Connelly is turning around to see what's going on. According to the Warren Commission, Connelly has already been shot through the lung, his wrist and into his leg at that point.
A few frames later you see Connelly's cheeks inflate as the bullet hits him in the lung.
I'm sure the Warren Commission dissected the Zapruder film frame by frame and saw that also, but there was no way to make their findings work without excluding the possibility of a third shot.
Connelly's wife was riding in the jump seat of the limo and she definitely says that there were 3 shots.
It seems strange that some on here insisted we respect McCain despite years of weird, erratic and near treasonous behavior, due to his war hero status, while reviling JFK whose own war hero status was unquestionable.
War hero? Might want to check out his awards and decorations...
Folks that think LHO killed Kennedy in the fashion the discredited Warren Report described are simply ignorant of the facts surrounding the case.
IIRC, the original question was pretty specific...did the country really mourn JFK's death universally. IMO, yes and for years.
If JFK were the Lazarus of the day....he would be vehemently 'drummed out' of the Democratic Party! His philosophy of the time would not wash with the Demagogues within that party today! The revolting thing about his death was that it brought forth Lyndon Baines Johnson and his cohorts! If loyal Texans wished to do something worthwhile they should dig him up and hang his sorry azz from the tallest cottonwood tree they can find alongside the Brazos River!!
If JFK were the Lazarus of the day....he would be vehemently 'drummed out' of the Democratic Party! His philosophy of the time would not wash with the Demagogues within that party today! The revolting thing about his death was that it brought forth Lyndon Baines Johnson and his cohorts! If loyal Texans wished to do something worthwhile they should dig him up and hang his sorry azz from the tallest cottonwood tree they can find alongside the Brazos River!!
Absolute the best post of this thread. That POS caused a lot of my friends to get killed or wounded in Vietnam. That is the reason he was killed , too much money to be made for the war machine that was propping up chucking LBJ.
JFK was the beginning of the end and was killed by a single communist. The conspiracy theories were promoted by liberals to cover up it was done by one of there own.
I don't get into the conspiracies. They're just a series of guesses.
But I find it interesting that the Warren Commission says one thing and the Zapruder film says another.
If the Zapruder film is broken down frame by frame it's evident that Connelly gets hit a significant length of time after Kennedy.
Kennedy is holding his throat and Connelly is turning around to see what's going on. According to the Warren Commission, Connelly has already been shot through the lung, his wrist and into his leg at that point.
A few frames later you see Connelly's cheeks inflate as the bullet hits him in the lung.
I'm sure the Warren Commission dissected the Zapruder film frame by frame and saw that also, but there was no way to make their findings work without excluding the possibility of a third shot.
Connelly's wife was riding in the jump seat of the limo and she definitely says that there were 3 shots.
Height of the cold war how does Oswald travel back and forth from Russia ?
I was 20 when Kennedy was killed, and I was in Canada.
The people that I knew there were in shock. I was in shock, and very much saddened by the event.
I've been a Republican forever, but Kennedy was charismatic, young, and he exuded a confidence that made him easy to like. I do not remember the politics of that era being as shameful and divisive as the politics of today. Heck, I think I might have voted for him. But at the time, some of his policies were stumbling. Being assassinated probably did help his historical reputation.
Of course, the conspiracy theories have never died. LBJ came to power through the assassination. We'll never know for sure what his involvement was, but I do recall a live TV interview with his former mistress who stated that he received a call at her apartment the day before the assassination. When he finished the call, he told her that after tomorrow JFK wasn't going to be able to embarrass him anymore. So I think LBJ had knowledge before the fact.
JFK was the beginning of the end and was killed by a single communist. The conspiracy theories were promoted by liberals to cover up it was done by one of there own.
I completely agree. I finished the following book a while back which fully convinced me that it was Oswald who pulled the trigger. I think another reason for the conspiracy theories is people just don't want to believe that a nobody and a loser like Oswald could kill a president and have such an enormous impact on history.
To the original question, yes, I did hear one person gloat about Kennedy's assignation. She was a high school girl who was not very bright, though not quite retarded. She and her family hung out with some people who were super conservative in politics and also religion. She was a simple minded foolish girl parroting what she assumed those around her thought: good riddance. I didn't know what to say to her so said nothing but my shocked silence shut her up.
I am concerned that there appear to be more of her kind around today.
Otherwise the shock and grief was universal, and though I did not know many people's political leanings, both the Republicans and Democrats I knew grieved alike.
I was a senior in high school, in a small math class taught by the Principal when a classmate friend of mine who manned the office phone that hour stepped across the hall to us and said that someone had phoned the school to say Kennedy had been shot. Shock and grief, prom cancelled that weekend, still shakes me. I did not agree with his politics but he was my President. I may work against a man's policies and oppose his election but the office holds respect from me.
I saw Kenney in person a few months before he died, within about 20 feet where I was in the front of a crowd for a speech he made.
I remember my dad telling me that when a co-worker told him the Kennedy had been killed his reply was "good, I never liked the SOB anyhow" or words to that effect.
My entire family was extremely conservative politically. I'm certain Dad, granddad and both uncles had voted for Nixon in 1960. So when Kennedy got shot no one was upset. Most of the talk seemed to be about how Lee Harvey Oswald could have made those shots with a POS carcano rifle.
I'll always believe LBJ had a hand in it. For the most part it broke MS media's heart. The had their royalty. ( Camelot). And Jackie was their American Princess. Hasbeen
John Kennedy was a life member of the NRA. In my opinion he was the best Democrat president. I believe he was killed by people wanting the munition sales for Vietnam. They had one of theirs - a CIA operative - kill him. Because the idiot that replaced him would do what they wanted. Lyndon Baines Johnson was the worst ever president of the USA. But he did what he was told.
TATELAW, I haven't yet read the posts on this thread but can tell you that, as a 25 year old educator that did not want or vote for JFK, I was shocked and saddened by the event and it seems that just about everyone I knew felt about the same. The common pulse of the country seemed evident, even among those who did not like or respect JFK.
With regard to some decent common purposes and sentiments, this country seems far different now. I could not predict how the country would react to such an event in these times.
I also remember that much attention soon turned to the who/how/why of the rotten deed and that Oswald was quickly written off as a misguided dimwit who was enticed/led into his role. Most folks had little respect for the Warren report - saw it as eyewash - and most my age with whom I talk see LBJ as having been a prime mover in the scheme.
In the end, I think that most of the consternation, sadness, disgust and shame were due to the fact that it could be done, and that high placed people colluded to do so - rather than any great love for JFK and his Presidency. He was not much of a President compared to the good ones.
Height of the cold war how does Oswald travel back and forth from Russia ?
Yes! And briefly interviewed after his" USSR defection" and return to the USA he was given a clean bill of health ...
Regarding LBJ, prior to being selected as Kennedy's running mate LBJ was facing various criminal charges. If he had not been drafted for the VP slot to help Kennedy win southern votes he would have been tried and likely imprisoned.
Something else I learned just today as a result of reading about the JFK matter.
Connelly himself testified that he wasn't shot by the same shot that hit Kennedy in the throat.
Yet the Warren Commission insisted that he was.
As I stated earlier. I have no idea how it all transpired. But if a government committee is obfuscating the details, it's pretty obvious that the government was involved.
I think the reason that the Warren Commission insisted that the same shot hit both Kennedy and Connelly is because both of them were shot in a very short span of time.
The Zapruder films definitely shows that they were 2 separate shots, but they were close enough together that one shooter with a bolt action rifle couldn't have made both of those shots.
If you slow the Zapruder film down frame to frame, you will see the bullet impact from the front, the skull pieces fly straight UPWARD, not down and forward. Like a melon hits a wall. Its pretty clear.
Also the spray, goes HIGH over his left shoulder, over Jackie and that side of the car, gets caught in the wind. Ive seen it in color, and then in some kindve black and white, denuded version of the same footage. The spray is pretty telling.
Ive stood behind that fence on the grassy knoll. Man, close!! 35 yards maybe? Trajectory and height are perfect. Not flat, but much less of angle than 6 stories up in that building.
And that X in the street appears to be placed wrong, not to mention, there is a report the car SLOWED, and moved OVER to the curb before the last impact (closer to Zapruder, and the knoll shooter, if there)
Heres my only question. Anybody thats been to the scene, there are STEPS that run down from the temple like fascade on the grassy knoll (which is actually a short street up there) directly in front of the fence where the shooter is said to have been.
At the shooting, there are 3 people on those stairs. If someone was shooting within 10 yards over your left shoulder and damn near on top of you, youd flinch no? Then run AWAY from the shooter who is damn near on top of you, right? Youd be deaf in your left ear.
NOPE. they run UP the stairs to the short street and parking lot along the fence line, passing THROUGH the line of fire of the supposed shooter.
This has always puzzled me. This is seen from footage taken on the OTHER side of the street. the left side.
Good link...There are some very good questions raised in this Article.
"The experts from the US Army and the FBI who had tested the rifle discovered that it was actually not usable in its original state: •Shims had to be applied to the telescopic sight before the rifle could be aimed.1 •Even after the telescopic sight had been repaired, it proved unreliable and inaccurate.2 •The condition of both the bolt and the trigger pull meant that the rifle could not be aimed accurately.3
The rifle discovered on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository could not have caused any of the wounds to Kennedy, Connally or Tague, except by accident"
And then there is the question of how a very worn out Carcano could have been cycled and accurately aimed for 3 shots within 6 seconds.
major dick culver, a.k.a. culvers shooting pages on the net has talked about the asscination that happen when he was still in the marine corp in new orleans, i think. He actually handled the weapon, and said, nah, not possible, sight was way off. I trust him. I don't think the rifle has been handled at least publically since the event.
To the original question, yes, I did hear one person gloat about Kennedy's assignation. She was a high school girl who was not very bright, though not quite retarded. She and her family hung out with some people who were super conservative in politics and also religion. She was a simple minded foolish girl parroting what she assumed those around her thought: good riddance. I didn't know what to say to her so said nothing but my shocked silence shut her up.
I am concerned that there appear to be more of her kind around today.
Otherwise the shock and grief was universal, and though I did not know many people's political leanings, both the Republicans and Democrats I knew grieved alike.
I was a senior in high school, in a small math class taught by the Principal when a classmate friend of mine who manned the office phone that hour stepped across the hall to us and said that someone had phoned the school to say Kennedy had been shot. Shock and grief, prom cancelled that weekend, still shakes me. I did not agree with his politics but he was my President. I may work against a man's policies and oppose his election but the office holds respect from me.
I saw Kenney in person a few months before he died, within about 20 feet where I was in the front of a crowd for a speech he made.
(The portion in blue)......Pretty much the way I remember it. I too was senior in high school. I was in a Contemporary Affairs (Civics) class when the announcement was made that President Kennedy had been shot. School was dismmissed for the day.
In 1963 I was just at that age ( 10) where I believed what my elders and those in authority told me. In pretty short order it gradually came to light that our own Govt. had Kennedy snuffed...with LBJ at the helm. If they are capable of that, then they are capable of anything. The fall from innocence was then complete. Events of the next decade...continuing on up to the present have done nothing but confirm......
One weird thing on JFK. Why was LBJ laying on the floor of his limo 40 seconds before the first shot?
Moreover why did LBJ want to ramp up VietNam? Was it a coincidence that Ladybird owned controlling interest in Lone Star Concrete and they were awarded the military contracts for all the airstrips in Viet Nam?
Just a Frinstance....
LBJ had our boys get killed by the thousands, just so he could make a buck. I will never be done hating him for that.
Weren't the Johnson's also heavily invested in Bell (?) Helicopter, the helicopter used almost exclusively in Vietnam?
One weird thing on JFK. Why was LBJ laying on the floor of his limo 40 seconds before the first shot?
Moreover why did LBJ want to ramp up VietNam? Was it a coincidence that Ladybird owned controlling interest in Lone Star Concrete and they were awarded the military contracts for all the airstrips in Viet Nam?
Just a Frinstance....
LBJ had our boys get killed by the thousands, just so he could make a buck. I will never be done hating him for that.
Weren't the Johnson's also heavily invested in Bell (?) Helicopter, the helicopter used almost exclusively in Vietnam?
Moreover why did LBJ want to ramp up VietNam? Was it a coincidence that Ladybird owned controlling interest in Lone Star Concrete and they were awarded the military contracts for all the airstrips in Viet Nam?
Quote
Weren't the Johnson's also heavily invested in Bell (?) Helicopter, the helicopter used almost exclusively in Vietnam?
From what I remember hearing when I was there, their hands were in a lot more pies than that. Trash Hauling (PA&E) and a lot of other things. I think that I heard that She was big in Brown&Root too. miles
One weird thing on JFK. Why was LBJ laying on the floor of his limo 40 seconds before the first shot?
Moreover why did LBJ want to ramp up VietNam? Was it a coincidence that Ladybird owned controlling interest in Lone Star Concrete and they were awarded the military contracts for all the airstrips in Viet Nam?
Just a Frinstance....
LBJ had our boys get killed by the thousands, just so he could make a buck. I will never be done hating him for that.
Weren't the Johnson's also heavily invested in Bell (?) Helicopter, the helicopter used almost exclusively in Vietnam?
Moreover why did LBJ want to ramp up VietNam? Was it a coincidence that Ladybird owned controlling interest in Lone Star Concrete and they were awarded the military contracts for all the airstrips in Viet Nam?
Quote
Weren't the Johnson's also heavily invested in Bell (?) Helicopter, the helicopter used almost exclusively in Vietnam?
From what I remember hearing when I was there, their hands were in a lot more pies than that. Trash Hauling (PA&E) and a lot of other things. I think that I heard that She was big in Brown&Root too. miles
She was, and Brown & Root was bought out by Halliburton in the 60's and became a subsidiary, renamed Kellogg Brown & Root (KBR). That's how Halliburton got the defense contracts without bidding (no-bid contracts during the Vietnam War).
I killed him. Two and a half year old professional sniper. Got a book deal in the works.
How I killed Kennedy.....with an A-bolt!
Look guys, I did it cause I was paid. Got a toy fire-engine, and an awesome red trike with streamer-frilly things off the handlebar grips.
Now I know some of you think it's was because of the ambitions of LBJ or the Cuban/CIA click pizzed off about the bay of big. Or Castro/Russian also because of the bay of pigs.
But there were a lot of Flat-Earthers pretty upset about his whole "We choose to go to the moon" thingy. Them along with the Vatican Church not giving in on Galileo for centuries and Kennedy being Catholic, they were preeetttyyy upset with ole John.
Not saying too much because of the book deal, but, just saying...
Good link...There are some very good questions raised in this Article.
"The experts from the US Army and the FBI who had tested the rifle discovered that it was actually not usable in its original state: •Shims had to be applied to the telescopic sight before the rifle could be aimed.1 •Even after the telescopic sight had been repaired, it proved unreliable and inaccurate.2 •The condition of both the bolt and the trigger pull meant that the rifle could not be aimed accurately.3
The rifle discovered on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository could not have caused any of the wounds to Kennedy, Connally or Tague, except by accident"
And then there is the question of how a very worn out Carcano could have been cycled and accurately aimed for 3 shots within 6 seconds.
major dick culver, a.k.a. culvers shooting pages on the net has talked about the asscination that happen when he was still in the marine corp in new orleans, i think. He actually handled the weapon, and said, nah, not possible, sight was way off. I trust him. I don't think the rifle has been handled at least publically since the event.
Culver could tell if a weapon was not zero'd by looking at it and handling it, without shooting it?
Kennedy's were worthless politicians, like many are, and there was no loss of a great man there.
One weird thing on JFK. Why was LBJ laying on the floor of his limo 40 seconds before the first shot?
Moreover why did LBJ want to ramp up VietNam? Was it a coincidence that Ladybird owned controlling interest in Lone Star Concrete and they were awarded the military contracts for all the airstrips in Viet Nam?
Just a Frinstance....
LBJ had our boys get killed by the thousands, just so he could make a buck. I will never be done hating him for that.
Weren't the Johnson's also heavily invested in Bell (?) Helicopter, the helicopter used almost exclusively in Vietnam?
As Senate Majority Leader, he was the most powerful Democrat in the U S, and second only to Eisenhower overall.
His fellow Texan, Sam Rayburn, was Speaker of the House.
LBJ was never in any danger from prosecution. He had a larger file cabinet than Hoover.
I don't know where you got your information about LBJ but you need to change sources if you are the least bit interested in accuracy.
I believe what you say about LBJ, but I read a lot about JFK'S assassination as a young adult and each book said that Lyndon was in the crosshairs for a lot of illegal stuff .......
Kennedy's death put LBJ out of reach of prosecution.
Good link...There are some very good questions raised in this Article.
"The experts from the US Army and the FBI who had tested the rifle discovered that it was actually not usable in its original state: •Shims had to be applied to the telescopic sight before the rifle could be aimed.1 •Even after the telescopic sight had been repaired, it proved unreliable and inaccurate.2 •The condition of both the bolt and the trigger pull meant that the rifle could not be aimed accurately.3
The rifle discovered on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository could not have caused any of the wounds to Kennedy, Connally or Tague, except by accident"
And then there is the question of how a very worn out Carcano could have been cycled and accurately aimed for 3 shots within 6 seconds.
major dick culver, a.k.a. culvers shooting pages on the net has talked about the asscination that happen when he was still in the marine corp in new orleans, i think. He actually handled the weapon, and said, nah, not possible, sight was way off. I trust him. I don't think the rifle has been handled at least publically since the event.
Culver could tell if a weapon was not zero'd by looking at it and handling it, without shooting it?
Kennedy's were worthless politicians, like many are, and there was no loss of a great man there.
Culver had quite a background, among other things, the sniper school at quantico. The article is still floating around on the net. Just from memory the scope was canted enough it was notable. i may have been off in saying culver handled it, but read the article. and HE did see oswalds service records. http://www.jouster.com/political_social_commentary/italian_rifles.pdf
culver, for those who knew him, had quite a history, and was a very good man. His sea stories are well worth reading: http://www.jouster.com/index.html
I remember my dad telling me that when a co-worker told him the Kennedy had been killed his reply was "good, I never liked the SOB anyhow" or words to that effect.
I've never understood this sentiment. I'm very conservative politically yet have great admiration for JFK. Politically, he would be far to the right of today's republicans and overall was a good president and inspiring leader.
Agree - I've never understood this sentiment either. I am a moderate independent and respect the job any President has to do. Kennedy was a moderate-conservative compared to some candidates in the Democratic Party, just as Ronald Reagan would have been too liberal for many Republicans today.
Sometimes, memories of the past cloud the judgement of today.
Wow looks like someone actually read the Warren report. I did right after it came out. I remarked then that they stated what they wanted to find and then went about proving it. Pretty much draw your graph the plot your points. No comments about a close election being fixed by Mayor Daly of Chicago. Wow what a town. I think we were not divided in the early 60's but the seeds were there if you looked. Pavementends
As I've gotten older, I have come to know the Kennedy Administration was not what people thought it was at the time.... Kennedy, like Obama, was really a puppet of those that were controlling the governments behind the scenes...
Kennedy was kept on drugs to function due to a lot of debilitation from WW 2 injuries....
At the time, most people forget that due to his war injuries, in 1963 Kennedy did not have very long left to live. He would not have survived his second term of office.
I don't believe Oswald managed to kill Kennedy at all.. if nothing else, because of the Carcano he had, with a cheap Tasco scope on top he paid $20 for the entire package delivered... If anyone has ever held a Carcano, its had to believe anyone could do a head shot at 50 yds with it.. much less 400 yds on a moving target....
I've read stuff about even those in the Democratic Party were worried about a Kennedy dynasty, John followed by Bobby, and then Teddy...
another theory I always thought was interesting, but you don't hear much about it...
That was a theory that knowing he was not going to see another 24 months to live, Kennedy has actually ordered and arranged his own assassination... he just didn't want to know when it would happen.... the whole reason was that with an assassination, he would go down in history as a hero....
Kennedy was popular, but he wasn't as popular as a lot of people think he was nationally in 1963....
His family made their money in bootlegging breaking US law...they were connected to criminals and also to corrupt Government officials up and down the eastern seaboard...at all levels...
Secondly his dad, was pro Nazi and as ambassador to Britain in 1940, was telling the Roosevelt Administration that the USA should normalize relations with Germany, as it was easily going to defeat Britain...
The more you look beyond the fairy tale that made up the Kennedys, you can see the cracks in the whole picture...
JFK was a big of a womanizer as Bill Clinton...he had screwed up the entire invasion of Cuba, leaving Cuban forces stranded on the beach at the Bay of Pigs, and gave no support once the invasion went south...he had major connections to organized crime, that dated back to his dad's bootlegging days... he was corrupt as hell...
regardless of being a war hero...
my mom worked in his office when he first came to DC as a Senator...he was personal enough, then even tho she worked there only a year or so, before getting a job in the Pentagon.. our family got a Christmas Card from him ( really sent out by his staff to a long list of people) right up thru 1962...
I think the biggest shock was that the President of the US had been assassinated...not necessarily because it was JFK..
every one seemed to forgive him of his transgressions, after his assassination...
and then we ended up with LBJ....
as side note I always thought was typical government... after Kennedy's death, Johnson was on Air Force One Flying back to Washington DC.... he wasn't automatically President.. he still had to swear the oath of office...
For over 30 minutes we had no President, because no one on Air Force One knew where to find the Presidential Oath of Office.... it was a lowly intern, who knew it was found in the Constitution....then they had to ravage AF ONE to find a copy of it...If only the commies knew that at the time...
Seafire, always enjoy reading your posts my friend. But, it wasn't anything near a 400 yd shot. Anyone telling you that is mistaken.
There was no one around me that liked Kennedy. However, everyone around me was stunned. Until the end of the funeral coverage, we sat in front of the TV.
I was 4. Mom had been out doing the shopping when it happened. In fact, she heard it on the radio at the market and told everyone, "Quiet down! Kennedy's been shot!" in her best primary teacher voice. I was home with the baby sitter. I remember turning on the TV just as Conkite made the announcement.
For a few days, we at in the dining room instead of the kitchen so we could see the TV. Nobody in my family were happy to see him go. If they disliked Kennedy, they were certain to like Johnson less.
The divide was always there, but a lot of media papered over it. Everyone around me was Republican, and fairly conservative. They had all liked Ike, but wished he had taken apart more of the New Deal. They dug Goldwater, Reagan, and Nixon. I went to school with a few Democrat kids, but mostly the neighborhood was fairly Republican
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