We've had a lot of talk as to if there are any old time principled liberals who aren't out and out Commies and who still love their country. Kucinich might be one of the few. He gets to the heart of the real concern over this mess. He should probably double up his security detail.

This Flynn crap is total BS. He was targeted for elimination by the (((globalists))). They want Trump isolated and thereby vulnerable to "guidance" by the neocons surrounding him and entrenched in the government. The globalists want no teaming up of powerful nationalist regimes against them.

I never thought I'd say this, but Kucinich is right and I agree with him.

I've never been a Kucinich fan, but he is right about the intelligence community. I'm no fan of Russia, and don't believe in getting too cozy with them by any means, but I also don't want to see another Cold War. The Cold War benefited a lot of industries, and made a lot of people rich, even if it did lead to the breakup of the Soviet Union.

I hadn't thought about that hospital in Syria deal that he mentioned but if that is true, these people are truly evil.

Summary for people who don't want to watch the whole thing as to that point. Obama had a deal with the Russians to cooperate more closely in Syria. A day or two after this deal was made, a US air strike hits a Syrian hospital and kills hundreds and the deal is literally blown sky high.

If you remember when that happen the military had to admit it had made a mistake based on faulty intelligence. It probably wasn't a mistake that they were fed that faulty intelligence. And then throw in the reports that the CIA is arming ISIS and the like in Syria.

This is like something out of a spy novel and totally incompatible with our system of government.

He's a true[old time] Democrat, unlike Pelosi Schumer etc that adjust their sails depending upon which group is blowing the hardest.

Flynn screwed up... he is gone... that element is history...

Kucinich points to the bigger issue and deserves to be listened to...

Here is a tweet this morning from Julian Assange:

"Amazing battle for dominance is playing out between the elected US govt & the IC who consider themselves to be the 'permanent government'."

Google search gives me Interstitial Cystitis for IC.

improved cylinder

IC = Intelligence Community....

They're going to take Trump out one way or another.

Eisenhower warned about the Military-Industrial complex.

What Kuchinich is saying needs to be looked into. Just because he's a lib/Dem doesn't mean he's not onto something.

And, we're talking about massive amounts of money, maybe a new Cold War.

Just saying.

DF

Little Dennis is actually more of a Communist that most. If he tells the truth, it's either by accident or because of some hidden agenda.

Flynn's phone call was possibly okay. Lying to Trump and Pence about it is unacceptable. If not for the leaks, they might have handled this in-house and kept him on board, but once that came out he was done, and rightly so. You can lie for your boss, but never to him.

The leakers in all departments need to be rooted out, fired if possible, prosecuted if possible, or transferred to the Ross Ice Shelf penguin-counting brigade if not.

If you watched that clip, you'd get that was exactly what Kucinich was saying.

Oh, now it makes sense.

= institutional communists

As for his "lying" to Trump, he said he didn't discuss policy. In a sense, this is true in that he was asked about policy, and said that they would be discussing that with them in the near future, but could not do so now. Is turning down a discussion of specific policy the same as discussing policy? That's a matter of semantics.

Like how you used the triple parentheses there. Has to be the (((JOOOOOOOOSSSS)))

Didn't watch it. Saw enough of that little weasel when hevwas the Boy Mayor of Cleveland.

Okay, crap, guess now I have to.

He admits lying to ("misleading") the VPOTUS. Hasta.

Who's pushing globalism? It's organized Jewry. Same folks behind other major, anti-western, well funded, pushes in history, such as Bolshevism.

I think a lot of us have known this for a long time, but Trump seems to have flushed them out. It is pretty open and obvious now.

The bad thing is that we the American people will never have any way of knowing what is the truth on any situation. And you can't make informed decisions if you can't ascertain the truth.

In the end, this might be a positive development no matter what the outcome is here. In the old Soviet Union the KGB had no credibility with the people. Everyone knew that everything was a lie. I think everyone pretty much now realizes that our agencies are no different.

Integrity appears to be fleeting if not already GONE from the Officer Corps. There were no laws broken or even "strained". As usual, the coverup is worse than the original sin.
The big issue here is the publication of extremely sensitive, possibly Top Secret information. Since General Flynn is an American, whomever divulged his conversation to the press should have first gone to a Fed Judge, just to get the ball rolling.
It appears this was not done and that is the big issue here. I guarantee you guys there were maybe six or seven people at most involved in this leak and I hope Trump moves quickly to stop this. The democrats are going to make crap up just to get the media going on brainwashing the public.

Chriss' rabid anti-Semitism is odd for a wop, until you figure that his father never made the cash that the Jewish doctors in the same area/practice areas made, and that Chriss' family members that married Jewish and work with Jews are a Hell of a lot more successful at ... well, everything... than he is.

His conspiracy ideations are simply envy.

Glad to see the regular kooks starting to move back the status quo anti positions. Makes me feel better about the world.

Here is what Winston Churchill had to say about the turn this thread appears to have taken.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/bookchapters/WSC/WSCwrote1920.html

Who told Churchill he was allowed to say any of that? He must have been a very bad man.

Wow. That's by far the most sense that little prick's ever made in the nearly 40 years I've been watching him. Way to go Denny.

Exactly my take on it as well.

When Kucinich is this right, the world is very much upside down.

This was Obama's parting gift, getting even with Flynn for criticizing him and the Iran nuke deal. Obama left many land mines for President Trump and every so often one goes off.

"This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognizable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire." Tsk, tsk.

I've seen Kucinich speak the truth as he sees it before. He is not a hopeless partisan. He will gore a democrat ox if he thinks it is right.

The people generally aren't aware of the driving force behind the dark state, but you can bet your ass that everybody in Congress knows.

That's for sure. They hold their purse strings. One wrong move, and that's cut off, followed by a relentless series of attacks from the MSM, ending political careers, apart from those tiny few who've chosen to remain independent of their influence, relying solely on grass roots support and/or self-funding.

Yep, the leaks are the crime, not Flynn talking to the Ruskies.

It seems political military officers were promoted during the Obongo years, the Pattons of the Corps were dissed, including Flynn, McCrystal and others.

It's gonna take some effort to root out those players, promote the real soldiers, same with the other departments. The intelligence community is a force within itself. I hope Mad Dog and his cadre can make this happen. With Sessions, Kelly and T-Rex in their slots, maybe this mess, system wide, will get cleaned up.

I sure hope so, as the nation as we know it is in a perilous situation, at a crossroads so to speak.

DF

Good clip...from a democrat, too.

The Russian boogeyman thing is a cover and he does a good job pointing it out. Let's see, first the Ruskies elected Trump and now his administration is in bed with them....right...

Soros, Clintons and their inside people in intelligence using major media as their mouthpiece, waging civil war against an elected president.

Absolutely!

Gotta clean house, offer no quarter, take no prisoners...

Scorched earth campaign, Sherman thru Georgia.

Otherwise, the ankle biters will keep on spiking the cannons, sticks in the spokes, sabotage.

DF

I'm not predicting anything here but this is the sort of thing that causes military coups and the like. Governments get full of all these competing factions with all these competing and unknown interests, until the literal survival of the country is at stake and someone gets frustrated and decides to clean out the opposition by force.

Take heed.

since we all know Dennis is a bent, compromised POS liberal, nothing he says is apt to be true. Just saying..................
If he has found a nut though, there will be an underlying, nefarious reason for expressing his thoughts this way.

A broke clock is right twice a day...

So, maybe he for once got something right.

DF

Not Army clocks.....

Took him til the 4 minute mark but he finally spit out "deep state".

He appeared truly concerned, he isn't that good an actor.

Kucinich has always been a nut job but at least he tries to be honest.

Everyday shows just how close to the edge we were and maybe still are.

The level and pervasion of corruption in our government is approaching that of a banana republic.

Kucinich has always been a nut, but he doesn't seem to be pure Evil at heart like most Democrats. Still wouldn't trust him though..

They need to start cleaning house from top to bottom & immediately start restricting access, muy pronto & take no prisoners.

Far too may loyal Obamaists in place to make trouble.

MM

I've heard him say a few things that I agreed with in the past but I've also heard him say some bat-chit crazy stuff too.

This time he happens to be right.

What I got from that clip came at the end.

In code, he said follow the money. Someone is looking to make money via increased tensions w/ Ruskyland.

Makes sense to me.

There's no question that a coup is underway via the intel services.

What is still a question is whether they are rooting out a traitor who colluded with our chief global rival to get elected, or whether this is some some of partisan bullsït. My strong hunch is the former. I think they are closing the pincers on the Trump administration, and letting them hang themselves with their own lies, just as they did with Flynn. I think they've got him. Being smart, deliberate, and I believe patriotic, they are playing this slowly and carefully. Can't really take out a POTUS any other way than slowly, carefully, legally, and with ironclad proof.... I think it's coming.

A few days ago I was predicting President Pence. I will now change that. I think he goes down too. President Ryan within calender year 2017 is my call. And if the Trump campaign can be PROVEN to have been in collusion with Russia in their electoral interference I support it 100%. We CANNOT have a POTUS who did that. Period. Surely y'all agree.

What a clusterfück. For the record, while this is very entertaining, it sure ain't what *I* want... I want Trump's economic ideas to get a chance. I was against NAFTA from day one and while protectionism is clearly flawed... it might be LESS flawed than, oh you know, giving away your whole industrial base and turning your citizens into burger-flippers. Just sayin'.

Putin has punked us, people. He wins regardless of the outcome. He has either a) penetrated the highest levels of our government; b) is about to TAKE DOWN an administration, or c) completely neutered a president while creating massive societal upheaval here. Or all three. Win/win/win.

We been owned.

Pulling up chair and bowl of popcorn...

And wasn't it few months before that, a president clinton?

Good stuff spot on guys like that are few in DC these days.

This dynamic persists between the Intelligence Community and the Cheif Executive as an office. It's not really about Trump. It's about a fiefdom of professional power mongers maneuvering to preserve and expand their sphere of influence and control. This is nothing new. Further, the folks on the other side of "the other side of the pond", i.e. the Russians, are quite comfortable playing this game and are actually quite dependent on it. One upside of the Cold War was that, for the most part, everyone knew their place. Russia's spy ship off the Delaware coast might well be viewed as stabilizing and moderating vector. For the Russians, the game must continue. Something is always too big to fail. Those somethings, which are too big, are the ones that survive. Figuring out which somethings will survive is far more challenging than figuring out how they do it. They always survive the same way, through interdependency of necessity. We're witnessing the new administration being drawn into their inevitable role. Trump's unique path to power makes for an awkwardly revealing show of the messy innards behind humanity's fundamentally flawed, yet enduring, existence. Although inevitable, it's by no means immutable. Enjoy the show and never mind the noise.

A lot of people are going to make money lots of different ways. This is much more about power than it is about wealth.

You seem to be a brilliant political strategist.

Don't 'misunderestimate' the amount of money involved.

Erik Prince....

Robert Harward....

This is about much more than money.

As good as Fynn is, you've got to be even smarter than five minutes ago. It's politics at its serpentine-worst.

And, yes, Kucinich is semi-worthy.

Had to quote the dipschit, didn't you?

Jeff,

1) you did not watch or listen to Kucinich
2) it has come out now that the Hussein administration - THAT YOU VOTED FOR - was in constant communication with Russia during the 2008 election.
3) hint: CIA wants a new Cold War.

You've got your head up your ass.

That explains why Trump hasn't given Soros to the russians

Apparently by "we" you are referring to your liberal pals.

You are owned perhaps, but more to the point, deluded or better, deceived.

I certainly don't agree with you at all, so drop the presumption. It would be sheer lunacy to cheer on the covert intelligence services in a coup. Idiocy would be an improvement--a step or two up the scale.

Yep.

Kucinich's so;e motive is cresting advantage or at least preventing harm to Russia. ucinich's sole consistent characteristic is that he is an old-line Marxist Communist.

Good lord, Russia is less communist than we are now.

I agree completely. While I hope I am wrong I don't think we can avoid this civil war cold as it may be, or end it either; except to, hopefully prevent it from becoming hot. Too much imbedded rot.

This may be "deep state" but I guarantee the Democrats are involved in this, 0bama and the Clinton's. Those fuggers have absolutely no morals and there is nothing I'd put past them.

+1

I think this is a war by The Zero and the Clintons on Trump.

Trump promised to prosecute them and expose Zero's ineligibility to be president, so the D Gang is showing him who has the power (the courts and the bureaucracy) and trying to get him removed from office before he can follow through on his threats.

If Trump can hang in there and root out the worms and get court appointments, it's going to be game over for the D Gang.

For sure there is a "civil war" of sorts, a power struggle between establishment globalists and nationalist patriots. This whole "movement" is in essence a coup, a revolt, our version of Brexit and not too unlike the new Israel policy, breaking away from U.N. and globalist imposed solutions.

The old guard won't give it up easily, have had their hands on the levers of power for eons, are entrenched.

We need to pray for Trump and his team. If entrenched power succeeds, or is able to stop/neutralize this movement, we're screwed.

I think we as a nation have one chance to right the ship of state. We won't get another shot at it, IMO.

DF

Spot on.

At this point, it shouldn't matter if you like Trump or not, and that was what Kucinich was saying. If the deep state wins, that's it. Elections don't matter. They do what they want when they want. They take the nation and your kids and grandkids to war when and where they want.

Exactly. Elected officials then answerable to non-elected.

All elected officials would eventually be rolled and the constitution meaningless.

Have the stakes ever been larger?

I don't think they ever have been. This is it. If they win, then it is tyranny.

Completely agree.

Same here, 4ager. Joe Lieberman had some sage comments also.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fully agree ..

You know, I'm not too sure this is any different than it ever has been, see both Kennedys and Reagan as examples, but it is stunning how out in the open it is now.

Barry, WE, all of us, need to understand that there is NO such thing as "The Democratic Party" anymore. Long gone and for a long time.

There is only the present day Republican Party and "The Globalist Party".

I want to be fair to your point, but this is much more complicated than that.

Brilliant!

Excellent point.

However, while I'm sure it's no different in kind, I believe it may be quite different in degree. That is, the people who are in power in the Deep State are far more committed to doing "whatever it takes". The CIA's Bill Donovan roots are showing, as it were.

It really is no different fundamentally than ever before although there are different expressions of it from time to time.

Burke and Paine argued about government just post- the U.S. revolution including references to human nature as it is expressed in it and reflected by it.

Human nature is seriously and fundamentally flawed (a real understatement) from a Christian doctrinal viewpoint though any unbeliever, thinking honestly across history's examples of human endeavor, should be able to see it also.

Absent a once moral but now rejected guidance, we now see a segment of our anti-American portion of our society demonstrating this truth while flailing about lying, destroying property, warring against the administration, and hopeful for some sort of political coup. I don't see it letting up.

Hence the "out in the open" statement. It seems that no longer are they interested in or feel the need to even disguise themselves these days. Either they are desperate enough that they don't care, or they are strong enough that they don't need to care. If they win after being this open about it, there is no going back to pretending that the people matter.

I think they think they are strong enough to play their hand more openly... after all, they have run the show pretty much however they wanted for some time. Whether they're actually strong enough to pull it off remains to be seen.

State Dept and CIA is populated by a lot of Ivy League/old money/Mayflower descendant types. Their power in large measure is amplified by their low profile. Coming out into the open is a bad move for them, I think. But maybe not... we shall see.

I don't think conditions in America today can be compared to any time in its past. For 20 years the "crazies in the basement" have had a lot more control than they ever did before.

As a result, the entire federal government has been compromised. Essentially, Trump is having to do battle with a governing body and a media that's absolutely anti American.

America has had internal enemies for a long time. But they've only been in control of the government for the past couple of decades.

That's why Kucinich has gone off the reservation. He's a liberal,..no doubt about it. But he understands that what's occurring today is more than a battle of ideology.

There needs to be a large purging and serious examples made as soon as can be done. But it will take some methodical sifting once Trump gets his people installed to root them all out.

Like Seinfeld, much ado about nothing. I had no idea it was illegal for us to talk with Russians.

Well, FWIW, Jay Sekilow of the ACLJ, just opined there's a "soft coup" being undertaken by the embeddeds in the intelligence agency's.

This was obvious to those watching closely. The Trump adm has to Trample this.

Excellent points, Bristoe.

While he can go kind of loony at times he seems to make a lot of sense in this interview.

Seems there needs to be some type of false information put out in each dept.and see what shows up in the news in a few days.

I think that they will find out who leaked this phone call stuff and hope they get to make little rocks out of big rocks for years.

I watched Hannity's interview with the D.C. lawyer last night, and he opined that it will not be hard to find the leak, provided the Attorney General swings his big stick.

Call a grand jury, then issue subpoenas. The number of people who had access and opportunity is small, he says. I don't know if he's right, but I agree that this needs to be done in public. With a big club. With severe consequences, like 30 year prison terms in Leavenworth.

We had 8 years of bush and 8 years of Obama. Now ask yourself did the foreign policy of the US change radically during those 16 years? No. Oh Obama went around the world and kissed ass apologized for US exceptionalism but did we get out of Afghanistan? How long has this "war on terror" gone on? did we not over through the elected government in Ukraine to weaken the Russians? The story hear is that Trump is a threat to the people that really run this country and they are doing their best to eliminate him.

All I care about Kucinich, is if I was a single man and younger...I'd sure love to have his wife....as mine instead...

Suck Trump's ass you [bleep] pussy.

You have the Deep State globalists vs. nationalistic, "fly over" patriots. Pretty simple, actually. It's the spin that muddies the water and makes it seem complicated.

I loved Trumps press conference where he called out the media. The ratings on that one had to be thru the roof.

They're sputtering and spinning, fun to watch their reactions.

This conflict is just getting warmed up.

DF

Spot on.

I think we've not heard the last of this.

The wheels of justice grind slowly but exceedingly fine...

Stay tuned.

DF

I am sick of racists blaming Jews! Why don't you go hide under a rock.

Yeah, that Churchill fellow is just awful.