Weatherby Mark .270 Winchester 24" without brake
Barnes TTSX 110 @3.340”, Federal 215 Magnum, H4831 @
1. 58.0 – 3,069
2. 58.5 – 3,172
3. 59.0 – 3,190
4. 59.5 – 3,217
5. 60.0 - 3,259
6. 60.5 – 3,244
7. 61.0 – 3,270
8. 61.5 – 3,315

With new brake by Hired Gun in North Bend, Oregon
Ramshot Hunter @
1. 64.0 – no reading
2. 64.5 – 3,526
3. 65.0 - 3,541
4. 65.5 - 3,490
5. 66.0 – 3,501
6. 66.5 – 3,518

Any thoughts?

Your loads with Hunter look to be over max for a start and up from there?

Which load and powder was most accurate?

Or does that even factor in with you?

This should really be posted in either the "Hunting Rifle" or "Reloading" forums.

Thoughts? Sure. But .. why don't you ask an actual question instead?

I can tell you that according to Barnes you're 0.8 grains over max with Hunter. I don't have specific data on that bullet with H4831. With a cup-n-core you'd have .5 to go but with a monolithic bullet you may already be past safe max.

That's about all I can give you without some more specific question.

Tom

Not fast enough. More powder.

I got the load from Barnes. He told me their max load was 65.7.

Why?

I was looking at Ramshot's data.

Why not,you're asking people's opinion on hunting rifles. Those two forums are more apporiate for your post.

What question would you suggest? My only thought is I'm going to use Hunter. I was wondering what others would say.

By the way a couple days ago I looked at and enjoyed your 1/4" group you fired with my .224MBC.

The velocities over 65.0 were less, so you can relax with that as a max.

For some reason, the cooking forum comes to mind.

Well, we could start with which powder is more readily available,

or talk accuracy?

But you seem to be preoccupied with speed, so,

Turn it up....

Ah, what is the powder which makes the 165 grain .308 bullet move the fastest?

Ramshots 270/110 data with a 110 Vmax is 59.5.... the discrepancy between ramshot and Barnes is quite stunning!

Rich, I have plotted a lot of velocity vs charge wt graphs with several rifles and many different powder/bullet combinations.

When a velocity curve flattens at the top end, I know I have reached max load regardlees what the book says.

With Hunter, 64 gr is at or above max.

I would drop back to 55 gr with Hunter and chart velocities up through 64 gr. Then you will have a real picture of where your velocity curve flattens. It might be as low as 60 or 62 gr. Where ever that occurs, that is maximum in this rifle/bullet/powder combination.

A 270 as a varmint caliber is interesting.

A 110 Ttsx likely has more shank than most 130s and is likely retain as much or more weight than a 150 partition...just saying!

You should try at least 5 replicates and study up on statistical analysis. One shot at each load tells of very little information other than the obvious, that you need some replicates.

JMHO

As flat as his curve is with Hunter, I would be a lot more interested in pressure trace data on the loads fired than in replicates of the loads fired over 64 gr.

I suspect those loads are already well in excess of SAAMI max for a 270.

Repeating those loads multiple times is the last thing I would do without working up from well below.

For a thermometer .....hyper velocity federal factory loads with the 110 ttsx did 3350 in my Marlin with a 22 inch barrel. But at least I could reuse the brass on that compared to the federal wsm's which is unusable after one firing...lol.

Ditch the brake.

No. I have good safety glasses and a hardhat.

Exactly, You are not going to get much past 3350 with a 110 gr in the 270 and just about any powder without going well past 65,000 psi.

I'd try 70 grains of hunter over a 150 grain partition. you'll be impressed

Yes, thoughts. Your data shows rifle and MVs without, and with, muzzle brake - but no baseline data for powder/charge/bullet. What could a guy do with that info?

If there is a supposition that MV changed due to installation of brake, can't see data to address that supposition.

If that was not a supposition, am trying to think of a reason for the post.

I don't understand why people try to hot rod handloads over maximum. If the velocity from a 110 Grain bullet is so important, use a cartridge with more capacity instead of loading a .270 over maximum.

And yes, lose the brake. With that weight bullet the bad effects of the excess noise will outweigh recoil.

Thanks.

I like it. That is the kind of thought I was looking for. Thanks.

Guessing your primer pockets won't last long at those velocities......

Are you nuts?

Fwiw...I've seen some amazingly "brave" Data from Barnes with lightweight/caliber bullets. I recently picked up a pound of Hunter gunpowder and had seen that Data from Barnes but cross-referenced it with ramshots data and was pretty shocked. I realize the extra grooves on a short shank bullet probably help but boys.....double check the Barnes Data!

You can't help yourself.

I've never found a 270 to be such that I'd have to brake one. especially light bullets, but if you feel the need, I see no reason not to.

As far as load testing, i've not seen much of anything here that says if you keep messing with guns, that your head or other appendages will remain attached to your body for all that much longer for the chit you do and continue to do, for not understanding much.

QL shows 110 gr. TTSX over 66.5 gr Ramshot Hunter yields 87650 PSI.

this is known as Natural Selection...

but there is still room for more powder!

3518? Pfffft, 3600fps or bust, tilt the can......


Maybe try some half and half with Hunter and Bullseye. 33grs of Hunter for the last half of the barrel and 33.5grs of Bullseye for the 1st half, I bet that would get'r moving.

Lil village idiot rich locked up at least two rifles last year due to over-pressure. The moron doesn't need help... 🤣

Oh!
So this is more of the same.

I wasn't sure what you were trying to get at. So, how is the accuracy with Hunter? Speed without accuracy isn't very useful.

Straydog is onto something .. when you have a temporary dip in velocity as charges go up, you've already exceeded safe pressure for that particular rifle, case, primer, powder, and bullet regardless of what the books say.

What I'd do, probably, is go back and shoot a ladder from 63 to 65 grains. I would not finish with the 65 grain load, I think it is too hot based on the velocities you're seeing, but it's often useful to go a little over what you plan to shoot just to see what it does. Carefully though, very carefully. If you don't like ladders, load 63 to 65 grains in half grain increments, 5 shots each, and go shoot 'em.

I would also consider other powders. I've had good luck with H4831 with 130s and 150s in the .270 but I think I'd look hard at H4350 with the 110s.

Yeah ... that was a fun day. Thanks for inviting me up to shoot!

Tom

I guess there's a possibility that he is nuts .....but he is right, no need for a brake on a 270 win too much noise for any gain!!

The brake info was for my memory later. It is in the notes I copied. As far as I know the brake had no effect on velocity. I like to hold a rifle like I would a BB gun. With that .270 I had to hold on almost for dear life. That takes away a lot of fun.

I am delighted with the suggestion I am already over max no matter what Barnes told me. I will run the Hunter again starting with a lower charge. The holes with it were closer together; in fact some were cutting others.

....and there it is, foilks.

GTC

Yes
More powder..
Get a 1/4" wooden dowel rod and stuff those cases with more powder, take a hammer and crunch those powder granules down to powder.....you should easily be able to get 80 grains worth of powder in every case.
Let us know how it works for ya.

It's like he's TRYING to blow up a gun,....damaging em' with over pressure just isn't enough.
Just bear in mind that when this .270 succumbs, locks up, goes sour,....it will be a SMITH'S fault,...and RM will be (once again) a victim of the evil bastid.

GTC

Fine. But load more than only one cartridge per powder charge, start well below max, and check the brass for excess pressure signs before shooting the next higher powder charge loads, as has been suggested many times on this thread.

I checked for bolt lift resistance on each shot and checked each primer before I fired the next one. They looked the same. When I got home I used a micrometer to check for growth. They all measured the same.

Neither bolt lift nor primer condition is a reliable indicator of safety. Case head expansion is in the same boat.

Depending on the bolt face, smoothness of the lugs, hardness of the brass, etc, you can be way over pressure before any signs appear.

Tom

You have just stated the opposite on reading pressure signs that i have ever heard. Please enlighten me on approved method when one does not own a ballistic lab. ED K

So might as well step up a grain or so and see what happens?

Yes....I think it's time you get it over with...just fill a case up to the neck with blue dot. report back...

Hey it works for my .270.

Why?

Life Insurance paid up?

"It can also vary with the ejector slot. I've encountered a few with sharp edges, or even a raised ridge from machining. Some of these would often leave an ejector mark on any factory load.

At the other extreme, some rifle/brass combinations won't show "pressure signs" until well over 70,000 PSI--which is why using a chronograph is a more consistent solution.
Yep, even mule deer said "

Why not?

Rich,

Without a pressure trace, or a Personal Ballistics Lab, the absolute best indicator of pressure is muzzle velocity. You know as well as any of us that you can not make velocity without pressue, regardless what any other pressure indicators tell you. When you exceed SAAMI velocity, you are exceeding SAAMI pressure. Take note of that 86000 psi number quoted above from Quickload. That sounds exactly right to me with the data you have presented..

SAAMI max loads for the 270 with a 110 top out around 3300 fps plus or minus a bit. You are hitting speeds 200 fps above that. It is not possible to do so without a significant increase in pressure.

Remember the old ballistic law of diminishing returns. It requires a lot bigger increase in pressure to get from 3300 fps to 3500 fps, than it does to get from 3100 to 3300 fps.

I don't know about you, but I would not trust that Mk V to hold that kind of pressure very long with my face and eyes laying over the action.

Last weekend a guy in a gun shop told me that a certain cartridge achieved its high velocity because the factory mixed two powders in the case. I was sorta wondering if I would see the same claim here, when I read the title of this thread

mixing powders is an abominable idea, to be clear - don't do it!

Ringman reminds me of a couple of my customers. They email me about problems, and I look over the info, and write a lengthy reply explaining what's going on, and what needs to be done to fix the problem. They reply with a thought process that wanders off on exponential tangents, and again ask me again what I should do. I reply with a shorter version of the first email. They again wander off in space somewhere, sometimes email me again a few weeks later asking about the same problem. I usually give them a terse reply to read my first email and quit wasting my time.

Dude, you're loading silly hot, on the ragged edge of safety. I sometimes load pretty warm as well, but even in a very strong action I'm looking at fired cases to be sure that the heads are not expanding after several loadings - a sure warning sign that things are too hot

Yeah, the first clue should have been excessive velocity, but hey......

You just had to have the last word, didn't you.

Don't worry he'll be back next week with another high adventure!

The velocity is about the same as Barnes told me.

T_O_M suggested I try 63.0 and 63.5 grains. I did that today. Here are the results. The velocity averaged 3,450 feet per second. That is about 60 or 70 feet per second BELOW what Barnes told me they were getting with 65.7 grains. Do you want to apologize now or later?

I forget...which one of the "Rimg" guys is the idiot

70 grains will be your huckleberry

You need to try a compressed load.

Get a jackhammer and really pack it in there!

Go beyond a merely compressed load, and broken grains,....

Drill out the flash hole and use a magnum primer, duplex over that with 5% WOC Bullseye,.....just get it over with.

There's something WRONG about you, and this continual STUPID theme you harp on.

STFU and go away, or post about your "experiments" in a reasonably SANE realm, you [bleep] fool.

GTC

slide-hammer..jesus ffffuckinggggg christ get it right for ringman...

he prays for us......

As handloaders today, we are so blessed to have personal chronographs, as cheap as $100.

If a beginning centerfire shooter starts to get serious and curious about shooting and starts to think about handloading, the very first thing he should buy is a chronograph.

Even before he buys his first loading manual, or any other piece of gear, he can start learning a lot about ammo in general, and his rifle, by testing factory ammo with a chronograph. If he was wondering if he really wanted to commit to handloading, the chronograph will almost surely convince him to go ahead.

Compared to the old days when many of us started loading in the 1950s and '60s, having a chronograph is such an advance that it is almost like having a "personal ballistics laboratory".

A knowledgeable handloader DOES NOT check several sources, then pick the highest grain load of them all, and load up some ammo, and then brag that his wonderful rifle shoots 200 fps faster than everyone else's.

You speak for yourself, Buckaroo.

I've ALWAYS started at the very top, and added at the very least an additional 10% by WEIGHT !!!
.....the entire side of his head a crater, eyeball that's left cocked at a crazy angle ....stumbles / shuffles off into the wings,....

Sarcasm off,.....damn fine post, Mister.

GTC

Sure I can - yes sir. You asked for thoughts - so shared the first one. Please know that was not the complete thinking about your post.

Maybe you could give us instructions on what happens when one does this. Lots of loading manuals mention compressed loads. Or did you know that?

It's common knowledge that NOBODY here can compare with the illustrious Ringman, when it comes to working up new and innovative loading techniques,....

GTC

should be able to rig one of these up with a powder die.

I know when I can't get the exact velocity out of my loads that Nosler/Hodgdon, etc lists in their load data, I get really pissed and just start cramming more powder in there until I do. Then I tell people how stupid they are for doubting my methods.

Guy wants a Mark V action and a 270 Win chambering.

And y'all are surprised by his reloading strategy?

Without going into the implications of sins, transgressions, immortal souls, and vengeful or forgiving supreme beings,....
I will posit that misinterpreting Biblical text is probably a LOT safer than so doing with handloading "manuals"....
I really can't recall a Bible ripping the side of anybody's head off recently,....

GTC

Not to worry, ringdingaling will gin up a new wildcat cartridge to achieve his warp speed velicity. He only needs to find a suitable action that's impossible for him to fųuck up.

Ringman, the reason you should post stuff like this on the "Ask the Gunwriters" forum is that there are many competent gunwriters there, such as John Barsness. Since you don't want to believe what nine pages of guys have told you here, you can believe what they will tell you there: STOP!

The best way to get higher velocities in a MkV in .270 is to get one chambered for .270 Weatherby and run it within SAAMI pressures.

Party Pooper!

You should be able to rig up a factory crimp die to a second one of these and put some muscle to it and get a really strong crimp that should give ya about an extra 100fps without too much effort or too much pressure.

Look, SAAMI is for the lawyers and to cover everyone's azz. We all know ow modern day guns can take much more pressure than that.

So my suggestion to the OP is to fill that case with blue dot until it's overflowing, then crush a 110 pill on top of that.

Works everytime for me.

Blue Dot is old school, make the move to filling cases with Flash Powder for the ultimate experience in rearranging body parts.

You never checked with a company what they used for their products?

Apparently you are not familiar with the Weatherby Mark V six lug action. It was originally designed around the .30-06 instead of the nine lug designed around the .300 Weatherby. The action is only 1.140" instead of 1.350". A larger round will not fit in this action safely.

Rule of thumb, 10% silver nitrate by weight for super duper magnum load...

Usually I make wildcats. Since I am using one of Barnes bullet, and this is a factory cartridge, I called Barnes to find out what they used. I guess some of you guys here know more than the boys who do this for a living.

I hope you are enjoying yourself in your loading. But telling others how stupid they are probably doesn't accomplish much.

Please show me where I haven't accepted what others have told me. would they be as smart alecie as some of the posters here?

If one is running a nine lug action running a .270 Wea is going to work. To ask a bullet manufacturer what they run and then backing off a couple grains for a starting load seems to go over most of the posters here.

Ringman, What is your take on the benefits of those six and nine lug bolt actions (other than enabling fewer degrees of bolt rotation for open/close).

Time for a new sig line

You mentioned the shorter throw. That's a plus. I have no desired to own a nine lug Weatherby. They are too heavy. I sold the one I had.

The reason I gravitated to the six lug Weatherby Mark V action is it weighs twenty-six ounces. It is also about .200" smaller in diameter than the larger actions on the market. So the barrel makers make their barrels about .200" smaller to start with. The setup before this one has a Proof Research Weatherby shape stock, 26" barrel, a 5-25X52 scope and still came in at 6 lb and 13 oz. I switched to the 4 1/2-30X50 and it still weighs 7 lb 1 oz. I can work the action without taking the rifle down from my shoulder. Even my Savage functions easily from a shouldered position.

I tried to work the action with my Pierce and every time it would start back in and get sticky. I went to Sportsman and tried a Christensen Arms, Fierce, and one other. All of them did exactly what the Pierce did. I now have two of the six lug Weatherbys.

Now, THERE'S a word for the books!


And no, they would never accuse you of being that. Whatever it is...

A regular alecie maybe.

Mincing words again, I see......

Yep, I do the same, I think I read that in one of Mule Deer's books

Can somebody say Hubble telescope.
🤡

Which one do you plan to blow up first ?

GTC

I guess the difference in you guys and me is I had no idea what velocity to expect. That's why I called Barnes and used their info. Someone suggested if I want .270 Weatherby velocity get a .270 Weatherby. I had no idea about a .270 Weatherby any more than I did a .270 Winchester. That's why I went to the bullet source. Obviously I'm not as sharp as the poster here.

You couldn't buy a clue ifin someone gave you a million dollars. You poor dumb bassturd...

They are called reloading manuals. I'd suggest picking one up and reading it.

Hunter 59.1 3260 65.7C 3507

Thanks, Partsman.