Seems United Airlines wanted 4 passengers to voluntarily give up seats to allow the airline to shuttle a crew to the destination. No one volunteered, so they picked 4 seats at random and kicked the passengers off the flight. One passenger, a physician didn't want to do, so United had Security forcibly remove him from his seat and rough him up a bit. I think there is going to be an MD that will soon own a chunk of United.
Honestly, if I was a ticketed passenger, sitting in my seat on the plane, and they drug me off, I'd be a bit angry myself. It's not my fault they don't have crew where they need them. We all can accept weather delays, mechanical delays, but to get booted because they have a staffing problem doesn't meet that level of understanding in my book.
It's not my fault they don't have crew where they need them. but to get booted because they have a staffing problem doesn't meet that level of understanding in my book.
I kinda thought the same thing. They are in the business to transport people. They screwed up and ended up with a crew without transport..you would think they could just arrange their crews transport themselves instead of causing an embarrassing and what will be an expensive incident.
From what I understand, the passengers were offered money for their seat. The computer randomly picked the seats to be vacated, and they start offering money for vacating the seat, plus a free ticket on a later flight. These seats were up to $1000 with not enough takers, so the aftermath is what makes the MSM...
From what I understand, the passengers were offered money for their seat. The computer randomly picked the seats to be vacated, and they start offering money for vacating the seat, plus a free ticket on a later flight. These seats were up to $1000 with not enough takers, so the aftermath is what makes the MSM...
this video is the most viral video to ever hit China with 20m people watching it every 30 minutes yesterday.
United has a bit of a PR problem.
The biggest mistake was not dealing with this in the terminal.
Once a guy is seated on a plane, with his stuff in the overhead bin, its going to take a buttload of money to convince them to get off the plane.
hindsight is 20/20. I suspect the next corporate training video will be about trying to avoid situations where bleeding disoriented paying customers are running up and down the aisle begging to go home.
Buying back seats is fairly common because airlines regularly overbook. Plus, they move their crews all the time this way. They seemingly made a mistake by not allotting seats for the crew in advance but it's not always possible to predict when crew seats will be needed. It's just that on this particular flight, no one wanted to sell, which is unusual. They'd have been a lot better off to up their offer instead of getting rough.
as a business traveler, you're screwed in this because your company pays for the ticket.
In most cases you're forced to abide by a company policy that dictates you have to go with a suggested price point or carrier.
So you have little leverage in choosing or boycotting the airline and if you don't fly enough to earn points for upgrades, you're at the mercy of flying in cattle class.
Its a bad situation for consumers that airlines take advantage of - in both loyalty programs and knowing you have little say in what you'll tolerate.
I hate to see thing like this happen, but it can be to your advantage, if you're not in a hurry.
Back in the days when Southwest still sold round-trip-tickets, I had finished a job in NH and was headed back home. Flying out of Manchester, NH headed to New Orleans, La., with a stop in Baltimore, Md.
It was Thanksgiving weekend and they were overbooked. I was left behind in Baltimore because of a gate clerk. I raised a fuss, so they paid me in cash for the round-trip ticket, put me in a motel for the night, bought my meal that night and breakfast the next morning, and paid taxi fares. Just over $600 in cash, for the ticket. Paid for the hotel, meals, and taxi with vouchers.
Next morning I board a plane in Baltimore headed to Birmingham, Al. then onto NO. Got to Birmingham and it was one of those quick stops, don't get off plane, but they were overbooked and asked for 1 volunteer to give up their seat. They would give equal 'air dollars' for you ticket and get you on a flight latter that afternoon for NO.
I volunteered, and some young fellow got my seat. The gave me just over 600 'air dollars' and I volunteered to stay longer if they were overbooked on the next flight, if they would buy my ticket again. The agent saw where they had paid cash for the ticket once and now 'air dollars' for the ticket again, and guaranteed me that they would have a seat for me on the next plane, and they did.
They should have known the situation before the boarded the plane & addressed it then with compensation high enough to get the number of takers required.
Really, really bad PR & they will pay in the end.
I try really hard to avoid United...........they are always my last choice in airlines. Their service has been piss-poor forever. Others aren't great, just not quite as bad as UA.
I had former co-workers in FL last week trying to travel home. I know one of them didn't get home until Sunday. This was due to all the snarl-ups created by the crappy weather last THURSDAY. 5 of the 8 ended up renting cars and driving 3-7hrs rather than waiting in the airport for their final legs home.
Wonder if the guy dragged off the plane could also have been trying for days to get home? There's a chance that's why nobody wanted to give up seats either, could've been many passengers just trying to get home.
From what I understand, the passengers were offered money for their seat. The computer randomly picked the seats to be vacated, and they start offering money for vacating the seat, plus a free ticket on a later flight. These seats were up to $1000 with not enough takers, so the aftermath is what makes the MSM...
Then they should have offered more money. It just shows you how fricked up this country is that they thought they could do that and that they found a cop/security guard who would.
We routinely put up with schit nowadays that would have horrified people in some of the harshest regimes imaginable 75 years ago.
The airline should have keep raising the anti till someone voluntarily gave up their seat. The guy they removed and his lawyers just hit the lotto. Hasbeen
The airline should have keep raising the anti till someone voluntarily gave up their seat. The guy they removed and his lawyers just hit the lotto. Hasbeen
Army of Ambulance Chasers at the terminal to greet the Dr.
I do not understand how a company can sell a man a ticket without having a seat to put his ass in.
Ditto!!! It's time to end over booking on flights. Actually it should have never been allowed. If a passenger is disruptive and not complying with the crew at face value the law is on the side of the crew. Not giving up a seat for a non medical emergency and just a staffing problem is over the top BS.
They should have known the situation before the boarded the plane & addressed it then with compensation high enough to get the number of takers required.
Really, really bad PR & they will pay in the end.
I try really hard to avoid United...........they are always my last choice in airlines. Their service has been piss-poor forever. Others aren't great, just not quite as bad as UA.
MM
Got a story about high compensation...
I don't remember what airport, but it was in the east and it was just before Christmas. Had a hour or so layover, the airport was awfully crowded, so I found a seat beside an elderly lady. We go to talking and she had 2 tickets to San Francisco, CA.
They were over booked and asking for volunteers to catch a flight that night, no takers. Then they would buy the tickets and put you on that night flight, still no takers or not enough takers (not sure which)
Then they offered double dollars and the night flight. When they offered this, the lady said out loud, "They will do better, I'll wait". Now she has my attention!
I asked what was going on and this is what she told me...
I bought these 2 ticket last January when prices were cheap. I don't want to go to CA, don't know anyone there, I'm here for the money. The airline is overbooked and willing to pay big bucks to keep people happy, so when the price is right, I'll sell both my tickets and go home.
Sure enough, the airline announced they would give $700 for any ticket and put the person on the night flight. The elderly lady went to the counter and sold both tickets $1400. She came back by and told me she made just under $1000 profit. She also told me she has tickets for every holiday. I asked her what happens if they aren't over booked and she said she would fly to where ever, stay a day or two and come home.
A doctor not in first class, wearing sweats and a t shirt, screaming like he was on fire? Maybe, but not likely.
You must have forgotten Zerocare and EHR. If he treats medicare pts its a wonder he can keep his practice open, unless he works for a hospital or jack in the box doc clinic.
I have no sympathy for the MD whining about " I have patients to see Monday!" Dude, so do I. Get over it. Over the past 30 years there have been a few instances where we had to call folks up and tell them I got stuck somewhere and won't be in. People are understanding. Of course, the way medicine is today, he probably works for a group and not himself, and will have some bean counting manager up his butt for not being in the office on time.
I don't fly first class, unless it's an awards upgrade. I'm a tightwad.
I flew first class once...
Waiting for the plane to board in Phoenix, AZ. I had one of the 'cheap seats' near the back of the plane (I'm a tightwad too when it comes to airlines)>.
More and more passengers arrived near the gate - many were very young mothers with very young children.. I could see the handwriting on the wall.
Over the loudspeaker comes, "we have a few first class tix available........"
You've NEVER seen a 60+ year-old man run so FAST to that desk to spend $100 for the upgrade.. I could have passed Superman..
I get on the plane, like, first - and get the first seat in first class.. All the passengers move by as I'm sipping my first Jack and coke.. After all are on board, the lady from the desk comes on - sees me, looks toward the back of the plane, looks back at me and puts her finger in the air, circling it - then pointing back to the rear of the plane, then back at me with her arms in a 'baby-like' cradling and silently mouthing the 'baby-crying' image...
I.e., the seat I gave up was surrounded by crying babies...
Most of my civilian flying was done on the federal govt. dime. When free tickets or other incentives were offered I had to give any money and or tickets to the govt. It wasn't my money and that was the system so I never took the airlines up on it. Before I retired the policy was changed so I could keep the money or tickets but it never happened after the policy change.
I am sure Unite Airlines will have a lawsuit, but TSA, whose security guards I am sure did the beating will have an even bigger lawsuit on their hands...
I simply fail to understand how nearly every flight is always overbooked. I'll bet 75%+ of the flights I am on (United or other) are overbooked and the airline gives cash, ticket vouchers and motel incentives for passengers to take a later flight.
As to how they can overbook and bump someone who has paid for a seat:
When you buy a ticket, whether you realize it or not, you are agreeing to the airline's "Contract of Carriage Document" (United's is here). FOX News published an article, Bumped from a flight? Know your rights before you fly , that covers it in detail.
Even if United was acting within the bounds of their rules, they behaved stupidly.
Isn't selling a product you don't have considered fraud?
I don't know if united will win or lose in court, but the cost of the damage control is going to be higher than buying the crew a ride on a Leer jet.
I can't believe an airline allows some individual to make the call that puts something like this in motion without the backing of black and white policy. And that the person making the call to set it in motion wasn't juggling the mental math that this was going to cost....."Let's see, $1500/seat per volunteer vs. charter a plane or book our staff on (American, Alaska, Delta..."). People who aren't good problem solvers have no business being in positions of such responsibility. Win or lose in court, this will cost in PR for awhile. (And I would bet court will cost plenty on it's own.)
United Stock down 4% or 700 Million today. Stupid hurts.
Good to see that market forces still work. Sucks though for those stockholders who had nothing to do with this. First thing I would suggest is replacing the CEO.
United Stock down 4% or 700 Million today. Stupid hurts.
Would have been cheaper to up the offers until somebody bit. I'm sure the doctor's phone is ringing constantly with layers today. Nothing like live streaming mistreatment of a paying passenger for your own gain. Quite possibly the worst PR move ever.
After watching that video, all I can say is fück those [bleep]ückers, fück #United, and fück #re-accommodate. They should sack CEO Oscar Munoz. Fück him.
stupidest thing in the world to escalate to that point rather then find rides on other carriers for the crew. i flew 3 times a month for 15 years and only ever used UA one time. grumpiest FA's i ever encountered. plus they charge to much.
I have a brother in law who works in airline industry, his take on this is:
- policy is to NOT board the plane until you know the overbooking is solved. Once in the seat, it's very hard to get em off.
- you have ZERO right to be on that plane, the policy you agreed to says they can remove you for no cause. they essentially agree to get you where your going, but not necessarily on that flight.
- It's very suspicious that the flight crew overbooking was so sudden that it came up after the boarding, that implies it was an emergency to get the flight crew down there, now. Which means without that, there was a plane down there that wasn't getting off the ground, so by inconvenience of 4 people, you get a full plane off the ground.
Law suit or not, legally United did nothing wrong, they followed policy and it was not United employees that did the physical end.
I think they were paying with 'travel bucks' that can only be used on the airline.
If they'd have had hundred dollar bills and starting counting them out in front of everyone, they'd have had no problem getting takers.
One time I was boarding a plane in Boston on something like President day. Plane was packed. Got to my seat and there was a guy in it. Like musical chairs. Compared tickets and they both had the same seat number. Flight attendant yells at me to take my seat. I shrug and say it's occupied. She's pretty pissy.
Anyway I get off and the gate agent starts to rebook me and is going to give me a free ticket. I ask him how full the next flight is and he says it's packed. I say, "Look, book me first class all the way back and we'll call it even". He asks, "Are you sure?" I say, "you're' about to give me middle seats all the way to Portland, aren't you?" He looks at how tall I am (6' 5"). Next thing I'm drinking champagne and eating canapes. At the time I was flying a lot and the last thing I wanted was free tickets to anywhere.
A few years ago I was on a Lufthansa flight that was overbooked and the Germans handled it in a very positive way.
The airline kept offering higher and higher levels of compensation... seemingly without an upper limit.
I forget the value when they finally got enough people to cancel their flight, but I thought it was crazy, something like 7 times the cost of each seat.
It was a win-win situation -- passengers who took the buy-out laughed all the way to the bank, passengers who HAD to be somewhere on time were happy with their on-time departure, and Lufthansa got good public relations and had a plane load of satisfied customers in a festive mood for a fairly small cash layout.
Cost effective? Hell yes! It has been 8 or 10 years and Lufthansa is still my first choice when I cross the Atlantic!
A few years ago I was on a Lufthansa flight that was overbooked and the Germans handled it in a very positive way.
The airline kept offering higher and higher levels of compensation... seemingly without an upper limit.
I forget the value when they finally got enough people to cancel their flight, but I thought it was crazy, something like 7 times the cost of each seat.
It was a win-win situation -- passengers who took the buy-out laughed all the way to the bank, passengers who HAD to be somewhere on time were happy with their on-time departure, and Lufthansa got good public relations and had a plane load of satisfied customers in a festive mood for a fairly small cash layout.
Cost effective? Hell yes! It has been 8 or 10 years and Lufthansa is still my first choice when I cross the Atlantic!
John
Lufthansa has done well by me also, though I have only flown them 8 or 10 times? I wouldn't fly anyone else international, except maybe British Airways or Cathay Pacific?
A dear friend is currently on her way with her new husband to Australia. They got 2 round trip tickets anywhere and $3200 for giving up their seats and taking the next flight on their honeymoon trip last fall. When I was young and money was everything I gave up my seats a time or two but as I get older the immediacy of getting somewhere is primarily due to not knowing if I'll be alive when I get there.
I am sure Unite Airlines will have a lawsuit, but TSA, whose security guards I am sure did the beating will have an even bigger lawsuit on their hands...
I simply fail to understand how nearly every flight is always overbooked. I'll bet 75%+ of the flights I am on (United or other) are overbooked and the airline gives cash, ticket vouchers and motel incentives for passengers to take a later flight.
Airlines cut a bunch of routes after their last economic downturn and have opted for the fine print that allows them to do this rather than put on more flights. The downside of course is that virtually every flight is overbooked now.
The UA contract clearly said they could remove any passenger for any reason, should they? No, not in my opinion. But it is in writing. Watching that sniveling pussy scream like a stuck pig was pathetic, and nobody is talking about that...giving the wimp a complete pass after that pathetic display.
They should have done some real damage to the slimy lawsuit-seeker. When they told him to get his ass up, he should have gotten up. The rest is justified unless he was physically unable to rise. When he ran back onto the plane? Criminal trespass charges...
But flying was rather expensive. Most normal people did most of their travel on trains, buses, or automobile.
Then the idea of deregulation took hold, so competition and free market forces would make airline travel much less expensive, and affordable to the masses. That is what brought us to the conditions we experience today.
A few facts to keep in mind: Most people book the cheapest flight to their destination. That put the airlines in the position to scrape for every penny possible, which is why we get treated like cattle.
Airline seats are an instantly perishable product. The minute the door closes and the plane pushes back, an empty seat is lost revenue forever. Due to intense competition on many routes, just a few empty seats represent the entire profit that flight might have made.
There are no-shows for every flight. Passengers with reservations get caught in traffic. They oversleep. They get in accidents. They get sick. The are stuck in meetings they can't get out of. And in the past, many business travelers would make reservations on more than one flight because they didn't know which one they would be able to catch.
It is a sad fact that if the airlines were not allowed to overbook, some flights would take off half-empty, most would be 10-15% empty, and everybody's tickets would cost a lot more.
With their computer systems, the airlines know what the expected no-show rate is for every single flight, for every single day of the week. They attempt to overbook to fill every seat (necessary for competitive ticket prices, and hope for a slim profit). Weather and other factors often throw these predictions out the window.
At the last minute, standby passengers, if available, are used to fill the last empty seats. If a few extra passengers with reservations show up, then incentives are offered to get volunteers to give up their seats. This usually works well.
The incentives offered are primarily airline ticket credit vouchers. These cost the airline very little, when you think about it, because those vouchers will eventually be used to fill a seat that likely would have gone empty, otherwise.
In Phoenix one day a flight I was on became seriously overbooked. They needed 12 volunteers. They kept raising the amount offered and got all the way up to $1200 in order to get enough volunteers. Some volunteers had accepted at the $400 level, but every volunteer got the same $1200 in travel vouchers, and guaranteed seats on the next flight. Everyone was happy.
That is what United should have done in this case. I suspect that the agent was only allowed to go up to $800, due to some short-sighted management policy. This United case involved their commuter subsidiary, I believe, rather then mainline United. I think the mainline personnel would have handled the problem with more "money" being offered.
So those facts are what have brought us to where we are today, in regards to airline travel. The personal treatment is terrible, but the fact that we can get on a $100 million dollar airplane, going 500 miles an hour, and go from one coast of our continent to the other in 5 hours, for less than the cost of our latest rifle purchase is really rather incredible.
I once rode in an airline seat next to a businessman traveling at his company's expense. He was returning from an eight-day trip, he said. As we were on approach to land at San Fransisco he pulled out his parking lot stub from his shirt pocket. He started laughing. I asked him what was so funny.
He stated that he had been running late when he arrived at the SFO airport eight days before, so he had parked his car in the short-term parking garage in order not to miss his flight. He said he was laughing because he realized it was going to cost more to get his car out of short-term parking than his whole round-trip, cross-country airline ticket had cost. Does anyone else see something wrong with this picture?
That deal is nothing but a flea on the elephants back. I put a lot of blame for travel issues on the passengers. Expecting that one can travel cross country on 10-minute margins is a bit much. Our grand parents did it. People died and were born on the way, and no one sued if they hit the Rockies in the fall and were a year late.
If ones presence is all that important to the world, leave the day before. Also, if one is an adult, buck up and act like one. He could have lawyered up, probably for no gain, without throwing a childlike screaming/kicking fit. Some 100lb stewardess should have slapped a little sense into that guy. Even if the guy picks up a million, that's probably 15 seconds of UA's operating time.
Seems most of life in Oregon is on the west side (5+ hrs away). I live in the east side. With the potential for fog, snow, land/snow slides, blown tires, bridge out, mechanical breakdown, or just something of interest, I head over the day before for every committee session or flight.
Quote
United Stock down 4%
Time to buy.
Crash two planes in a day and then it's really time to get in. Remember the BP oil spill?
Would have been ever funnier if the "sniveling ass" had been a buff, 6'4" 280 pound dude, or a single parent who was traveling with his/her two pre-teens. ("I'm sorry kids, Dad will be right along on the morning flight!")
The UA contract clearly said they could remove any passenger for any reason, should they? No, not in my opinion. But it is in writing. Watching that sniveling pussy scream like a stuck pig was pathetic, and nobody is talking about that...giving the wimp a complete pass after that pathetic display.
They should have done some real damage to the slimy lawsuit-seeker. When they told him to get his ass up, he should have gotten up. The rest is justified unless he was physically unable to rise. When he ran back onto the plane? Criminal trespass charges...
I agree and it turns out there is more to this guy than meets the eye, 98 drug charges and soliciting gay sex from patients.
Major, major screwup by United, it's gonna cost them millions, maybe billions in lost revenue before it's over. All because some half-wit gate agent decided to flex her muscle & show some guy who's the boss. I fully realize it's within their legal right to have him removed & all the authoritarians will chime in and say he disobeyed a cop so he deserved the death penalty, but the reality is he was where he was supposed to be, bothering no one & united brought this schitstorm on themselves by their stupidity. These dumbasses still haven't figured out that everyone has a video camera in their cell phone nowadays & you can't get away with claiming the guy made everything up & we "dindu nuffin" anymore.
At a minimum the United CEO, the gate agent, & the cop all need to be fired & some major groveling needs to be done by United. Hiding behind the BS of "it's in the contract & he disobeyed a cop" doesn't work, just because you CAN legally do something it doesn't mean you SHOULD. What a bunch of morons!
I suspect a lot of passengers would have been even more upset if UA had brought in a negotiator and spent 3 hours trying to talk some sense into the guy.
When someone is holding up 300 other people, get his ass out of the way.
I suspect a lot of passengers would have been even more upset it UA had brought in a negotiator and spent 3 hours trying to talk some sense into the guy.
When someone is holding up 300 other people, get his ass out of the way.
Or if someone who wasn't an idiot was in charge, they could have just kept offering more money until someone took the offer.
Just because something is written in a "contract" doesn't mean that it's legal. It's only legal until it's not. United is going to suffer but I wish it was Delta this happened to.
I am sure Unite Airlines will have a lawsuit, but TSA, whose security guards I am sure did the beating will have an even bigger lawsuit on their hands...
I simply fail to understand how nearly every flight is always overbooked. I'll bet 75%+ of the flights I am on (United or other) are overbooked and the airline gives cash, ticket vouchers and motel incentives for passengers to take a later flight.
Airlines cut a bunch of routes after their last economic downturn and have opted for the fine print that allows them to do this rather than put on more flights. The downside of course is that virtually every flight is overbooked now.
Hmmm...that sucks. I didn't know that.
The whole deal is a bad situation, but it does indeed sound like United followed protocol. The TSA and/or Chicago PD...I think they're the ones who will have some serious expenses that will come out of this.
The Dr. sounds like quite the butt love'n, drugged up POS, and a complete pussy at the same time but assuming the videos show the truth, it doesn't make up for the beating he got. One account said that the Dr. took a swing at a cop though, which changes the situation if true.
One thing's for sure, the viral nature of the video has people everywhere jumping to conclusions, and United will be temporarily harmed from the whole deal, due to image alone.
So, for those who think they should get off. If you were headed to Africa on a once in a lifetime safari how would you feel if they asked you to get off and wait until a later flight?
I suspect a lot of passengers would have been even more upset it UA had brought in a negotiator and spent 3 hours trying to talk some sense into the guy.
When someone is holding up 300 other people, get his ass out of the way.
Or if someone who wasn't an idiot was in charge, they could have just kept offering more money until someone took the offer.
As I understand it, United was trying to make room for some of their own employees. Hardly an emergency situation or one which justifies inconveniencing a paying passenger to the degree which they chose to do.
So, for those who think they should get off. If you were headed to Africa on a once in a lifetime safari how would you feel if they asked you to get off and wait until a later flight?
Don't know about others, but when I am on a trip that REQUIRES me to be somewhere, I schedule to get there the day before. To much can happen, like this, or just in the weather/mechanical realm. It's saved my butt twice, once an elk hunt in ID, once a cruise in Greek Islands.
In the long run, this won't hurt United in the slightest. Stock will go down a bit, but recover. Most people don't care what airline they fly on, they just use an agent or one of the online booking services to find the cheapest one and book it.
Flying cross country for a couple hundred bucks is a bargain. It has gotten much worse over the years, as airlines try to find a way to make a profit.
The only "at fault" here is the airline policy. A flight attendant/gate person simply cannot overrule/ignore a policy.
The Dr. sounds like quite the butt love'n, drugged up POS, and a complete pussy at the same time but assuming the videos show the truth, it doesn't make up for the beating he got.
The guy's a 69 year old 120 lb (my guess) asian guy and he had balls enough to tell them "no" and stick to it. That more than most here who would have pissed themselves and complied when three enforcers got in their face.
Their is no way to spin this by saying "we were just following the rules", that's trying to pass the buck and remove any element of common sense from the equation. There are multiple ways this could have been handled which wouldn't have resulted in this outcome which is going to cost United a lot more than the doctor in the long run.
United's stock was down 4% as of last count, that's $700 million dollars of shareholder value. Is that worth not spending an extra $2000 to buy some vacationer out of his seat, putting him up in a hotel for the night and giving him a first class ticket the next day? All this could have been avoided so easily for not the stupidity of one person, the gate agent, that escalated a non-situation into an international news story. In early reports it referred to the gate agent as "she". Given that it's Chicago I can guess her demographic and how it all played out. Gate agent gets on the plane, tells the asian guy he needs to go, he says no, I've got to get home and she spools to warp factor 9 because she's been "disrespected". She decided she'll show him who's boss, the cops are called in and this ensues. Stupidity follows because of one person's permanent chip on her shoulder.
The UA contract clearly said they could remove any passenger for any reason, should they? No, not in my opinion. But it is in writing. Watching that sniveling pussy scream like a stuck pig was pathetic, and nobody is talking about that...giving the wimp a complete pass after that pathetic display.
They should have done some real damage to the slimy lawsuit-seeker. When they told him to get his ass up, he should have gotten up. The rest is justified unless he was physically unable to rise. When he ran back onto the plane? Criminal trespass charges...
I agree and it turns out there is more to this guy than meets the eye, 98 drug charges and soliciting gay sex from patients.
crow hunter, the gate agent simply can't push aside a policy and say "wow, this is stupid, I should just offer him another $500" Might (MIGHT) get the guy off the plane, but would cost that person their job.
There are 200+ people who didn't take the offer. Yeah, they should have upped it, but the gate person can't do that if the company policy outlines EXACTLY what they are supposed to do.
So, for those who think they should get off. If you were headed to Africa on a once in a lifetime safari how would you feel if they asked you to get off and wait until a later flight?
I had a flight cancelled just last week due to scheduling conflicts. I was headed to Hawaii for a hunt, and I was planning to meet someone in Honolulu that day. I had to take a flight the next day. It sucked but it was what it was and I waited until the next day to go. It would have made no difference if I had thrown a fit or not about it.
Outfitters deal with cancelled or delayed flights all the time and adjust their client pick up times accordingly.
The UA contract clearly said they could remove any passenger for any reason, should they? No, not in my opinion. But it is in writing. Watching that sniveling pussy scream like a stuck pig was pathetic, and nobody is talking about that...giving the wimp a complete pass after that pathetic display.
They should have done some real damage to the slimy lawsuit-seeker. When they told him to get his ass up, he should have gotten up. The rest is justified unless he was physically unable to rise. When he ran back onto the plane? Criminal trespass charges...
I agree and it turns out there is more to this guy than meets the eye, 98 drug charges and soliciting gay sex from patients.
As I understand it, United was trying to make room for some of their own employees. Hardly an emergency situation or one which justifies inconveniencing a paying passenger to the degree which they chose to do.
Wife and I and some friends were in Cancun a couple years ago and the entire group of us were ready to board our full flight home. The airline had no pilots and staff available as all that were scheduled for our flight were past legal working hours, in other words, they had to rest to be able to legally work more.
We were sent to some cheesy-assed hotel overlooking a parking lot for the next 24 hours. There were 150 of us.
Getting staff to an airport might mean the difference between a scheduled full flight and a cancelled full flight.
Don't know about others, but when I am on a trip that REQUIRES me to be somewhere, I schedule to get there the day before. To much can happen, like this, or just in the weather/mechanical realm. It's saved my butt twice, once an elk hunt in ID, once a cruise in Greek Islands.
That's all well and good on a vacation, but when you're a business traveler gone all the time that isn't an option. Some months I'll get on a commercial flight 5-6 times, getting there a day early on each trip would cost almost a week at home, that's a lot when you've only got a week and a half at home that month. It's also a lot of lost productivity for a business traveler that doesn't have the luxury of sitting around for a day twiddling his thumbs, many will take an overnight to europe, change into a business suit on the plane & immediately go to a meeting after landing in Paris, spend all day working then sleep and be on the first plane back to the states the next morning. That's their weekly routine, it's not the same as a vacation every couple of years where you can afford to take an extra day getting to/from it.
crow hunter, the gate agent simply can't push aside a policy and say "wow, this is stupid, I should just offer him another $500" Might (MIGHT) get the guy off the plane, but would cost that person their job.
There are 200+ people who didn't take the offer. Yeah, they should have upped it, but the gate person can't do that if the company policy outlines EXACTLY what they are supposed to do.
With all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about. There were multiple ways to handle this, that's what managers are there for. This was a huge screw up by the gate agent and her immediate bosses.
The Dr. sounds like quite the butt love'n, drugged up POS, and a complete pussy at the same time but assuming the videos show the truth, it doesn't make up for the beating he got....
The hell it don't! Should have beat the druggie POS 'moe senseless, right on cam...
Weather causes a lot of problems out of the control of the airlines or the passengers.
This United situation was not handled well, we all agree.
But often decisions do have to be made that inconvenience one or a few, in order to take care of a couple of hundred people.
Like that planeload of people waiting for a crew in Louisville, to make meetings, or attend weddings and funerals, or to go on a hunting trip. Their needs count, too.
Don't know about others, but when I am on a trip that REQUIRES me to be somewhere, I schedule to get there the day before. To much can happen, like this, or just in the weather/mechanical realm. It's saved my butt twice, once an elk hunt in ID, once a cruise in Greek Islands.
That's all well and good on a vacation, but when you're a business traveler gone all the time that isn't an option. Some months I'll get on a commercial flight 5-6 times, getting there a day early on each trip would cost almost a week at home, that's a lot when you've only got a week and a half at home that month. It's also a lot of lost productivity for a business traveler that doesn't have the luxury of sitting around for a day twiddling his thumbs, many will take an overnight to europe, change into a business suit on the plane & immediately go to a meeting after landing in Paris, spend all day working then sleep and be on the first plane back to the states the next morning. That's their weekly routine, it's not the same as a vacation every couple of years where you can afford to take an extra day getting to/from it.
Well, the other side of that coin for the business traveller is that since you're doing business, you need to plan for a certain amount of unpredictable SNAFU's when it comes to airline travel. They overbook flights, they cancel flights, they bump people off flights. All the time.
I have had to take overnight layovers that I didn't want. I've had to rent a car in Dallas/Chicago/Atlanta and drive 4-6 hours to get to the meeting I had scheduled, because the connecting flight wasn't gonna fly. I've had to call the hospital I was travelling to and tell them I wouldn't be at their ER at 0700 the next morning because my commercial flight was socked in.
And guess what? The world didn't end. People made accommodations and life went on. That's just how commercial air travel goes.
I have been in situations where I listened to the gate agent bump up the incentives, with nobody coming forward. A couple of times I've gone up to the agent and told them that I'd take their deal, IF they gave me a voucher for the FULL cost of a night in the airport Hilton/Marriott/whatever. Both times they snapped my offer up like a duck on a junebug... so don't tell me the gate agents don't have some bargaining authority!
I have some sympathy for people who don't like being computer-selected to not fly, but I recognize that this part of the contract you have with the airline. If nobody will volunteer and accept the incentives, it's gonna get ugly. But screaming and crying and making the security guys drag you off the plane like an unruly toddler negates the sympathy I might have had.
Yes, United Airlines has a PR problem. They need a better way to bump people off flights, and a better way to transport their flight crews in emergency situations. I expect they'll come up with something.
Soo ah broomd, you knew at the time the Dr. was all the things you profess him to be? Fascinating.
No, not at all.
He may be a model Buddhist. But the squealing, cryin'-assed display I watched by him when he was asked to get up was disgusting. I simply have no tolerance for it. Typical 'victim' looking for his next score. He may score some big coin from UA, but with these latest 'druggie' 'mo character revelations, his ass is toast.
Did anyone else notice the 'barely conscious' doctor clinging to his phone with kung-fu grip on the way down the aisle?
Their is no way to spin this by saying "we were just following the rules", that's trying to pass the buck and remove any element of common sense from the equation. There are multiple ways this could have been handled which wouldn't have resulted in this outcome which is going to cost United a lot more than the doctor in the long run.
Following established protocol (assuming it is legal protocol) is about the only way a company isn't liable when something like this happens these days. The protocol may or may not have a shred of common sense, but by following it an employee is covering themselves and their company. It is unfortunately a CYA world.
Originally Posted by Crow hunter
She decided she'll show him who's boss, the cops are called in and this ensues. Stupidity follows because of one person's permanent chip on her shoulder.
This is a classic example of jumping to conclusions. Nobody here knows what the full story is, what happened before or after the video(s) were made and what events happened leading up to or after the incident.
I hate to see thing like this happen, but it can be to your advantage, if you're not in a hurry.
Back in the days when Southwest still sold round-trip-tickets, I had finished a job in NH and was headed back home. Flying out of Manchester, NH headed to New Orleans, La., with a stop in Baltimore, Md.
It was Thanksgiving weekend and they were overbooked. I was left behind in Baltimore because of a gate clerk. I raised a fuss, so they paid me in cash for the round-trip ticket, put me in a motel for the night, bought my meal that night and breakfast the next morning, and paid taxi fares. Just over $600 in cash, for the ticket. Paid for the hotel, meals, and taxi with vouchers.
Next morning I board a plane in Baltimore headed to Birmingham, Al. then onto NO. Got to Birmingham and it was one of those quick stops, don't get off plane, but they were overbooked and asked for 1 volunteer to give up their seat. They would give equal 'air dollars' for you ticket and get you on a flight latter that afternoon for NO.
I volunteered, and some young fellow got my seat. The gave me just over 600 'air dollars' and I volunteered to stay longer if they were overbooked on the next flight, if they would buy my ticket again. The agent saw where they had paid cash for the ticket once and now 'air dollars' for the ticket again, and guaranteed me that they would have a seat for me on the next plane, and they did.
First of, let me just say, I hate United. If they'd been smart, they would have just kept raising the stakes.
I used to set myself up to get bumped all the time. On frequent flights I'd take for business or pleasure, I'd pick the flights I knew were the most popular and usually heavily booked.
For example: MIA to CUN is a 1 hour and 10 min flight and that sometimes includes a gratuitous run down the hotel zone, and the usual circling to land.
I'd set myself up on the mid-morning flights when I was going down to fish or just relax with ex-wife or GF. Used to take a bump often from AA on those flights. Not much difference in getting there at 10:30-12 and 12:30-2. I usually wait for comps to get in the $400 range. Some people will waffle at $250'ish. Greedy bastids.
The Dr. sounds like quite the butt love'n, drugged up POS, and a complete pussy at the same time but assuming the videos show the truth, it doesn't make up for the beating he got....
The hell it don't! Should have beat the druggie POS 'moe senseless, right on cam...
Don't know about others, but when I am on a trip that REQUIRES me to be somewhere, I schedule to get there the day before. To much can happen, like this, or just in the weather/mechanical realm.
As I understand it, United was trying to make room for some of their own employees. Hardly an emergency situation or one which justifies inconveniencing a paying passenger to the degree which they chose to do.
Wife and I and some friends were in Cancun a couple years ago and the entire group of us were ready to board our full flight home. The airline had no pilots and staff available as all that were scheduled for our flight were past legal working hours, in other words, they had to rest to be able to legally work more.
We were sent to some cheesy-assed hotel overlooking a parking lot for the next 24 hours. There were 150 of us.
Getting staff to an airport might mean the difference between a scheduled full flight and a cancelled full flight.
So charter a small plane if you're too cheap to properly incentivize paying customers. Once they're seated, negotiating for paid seats is bound to be a bit more expensive, but it would surely be cheaper than a chartered plane or a lawsuit. Placing hands on a customer whose only indiscretion was buying a ticket and being randomly selected by a computer is really, and rightly, asking for the lawsuit. Previous legal actions on the part of he on whom hands were placed should have nothing to do with it. Neither should it matter whether that person is Beyonce' or Dwayne Johnson.
My family got broken up by Delta ,my wife ,son and 2 year old Granddaughter,they were over booked and told us one would have to stay overnight,l told them my Granddaughter would stay behind,they said no, I protested and the agent said if one of didn't stay behind none of us could fly and Delta would not put us up.One day and 420 miles later we were back together again.
We now fly only Alaska and spend the extra 30 dollars for guarantee seat.
Placing hands on a customer whose only indiscretion was buying a ticket and being randomly selected by a computer is really, and rightly, asking for the lawsuit...
They should have been very careful in removing him in the cell phone age we live in, with caveats like "we want to be assured that you safely get up and out, sir"....THAT was their mistake. The guy was looking for this. He was asked to get up, he should have gotten up. Whiney-assed homo. They have a legal right to remove him, he refused. They deal with douchbags 24/7. I don't blame them for caving his skull, too bad the drug peddling wimp survived.
The flight was not over booked. It was full yes but United wanted to fly out 4 employees and wanted 4 seats. I believe the offer was a free ticket + 800 bucks but no takers. So United picked 4 names by random.
I read an article from a lawyer who specializes in this
Bottom line is he says - since 9/11, if you don't obey the instructions of the flight crew you're going to have a bad day.
The airline contract is to get you where you are going, they don't guarantee what plane they take you there with.
Where they messed up he said, was not telling him their obligations ahead of time in reimbursing him and accommodating him as a involuntary passenger.
They are required by law to discuss this with him before they ask him to leave the plane, and he says if they are forthright with the information, that he could receive as much as 4x the amount of his ticket value, or they get him there within 2 hours of his departure time for 2X (or whatever).
Instead, they attempt to negotiate with passengers in this lowball thing building up to the required by law amounts.
Of course no amount of money might have persuaded him to leave. At that point they should have addressed the situation by offering additional money to anyone willing to take his place.
There's legal, then there's legal but stupid. Some here can't understand the difference.
Even my best friend, a senior FBI agent, texted me last night about this. His text started with "WTF was United thinking?"
They are probably thinking the federal law is on their side and the other couple left without incident. United wasn't the one that forcibly removed him from the plane, it was law enforcement and federal law is on their side also.
Don't know about anyone else, but if I am on an aircraft and a law enforcement official asks me to leave, I leave peacefully and make my case later if I think I was in the right. There is zero upside in me resisting the officer. I am probably not going to whip all of them and if I did I will be the worse for wear when reinforcements arrive.
The doctor was stupid and United is taking all the heat when there is plenty to go around.
My family got broken up by Delta ,my wife ,son and 2 year old Granddaughter,they were over booked and told us one would have to stay overnight,l told them my Granddaughter would stay behind,they said no, I protested and the agent said if one of didn't stay behind none of us could fly and Delta would not put us up.One day and 420 miles later we were back together again.
We now fly only Alaska and spend the extra 30 dollars for guarantee seat.
It is sad that they chose to break up a family traveling together. I would hope that is unusual.
In this United incident, the story claims that "the computer randomly chose the people that had to get off", including the guy in the video. I believe that may be only partially true, and a way to deflect blame or avoid the accusation of profiling.
It is the policy of most of the airlines that when they have to involuntarily remove someone, the people that paid the least for their ticket get pulled off first. This is regardless of when they made their reservation, even months before. The computer displays this info to the agents, but it isn't exactly "random".
This makes financial sense because refunding the ticket or computing compensation is relative to what their ticket cost them. Again, it is a case of dollars driving the decisions.
People that brag about getting the cheapest ticket possible should understand that their is more risk of being bumped. But the ticket agents and ticket websites never mention this fact.
Everything comes down to dollars. The traveling public votes with their dollars. They complain about the lousy conditions, crammed seating, and lousy service, but they won't pay for it. When surveyed, they say they will, but the daily thousands of ticket sales prove over and over again that they won't. So, we are stuck with what we have.
If one airline squeezes in one more row of seats, the other airlines have to follow. Competition is fierce that way.
The FAA could help, but they won't. The FAA could demand better minimum aisle widths, and seat widths, and knee and head room, and better carry-on luggage capacity, all in the name of safety and for quicker emergency evacuations. But they don't.
The FAA caves to the airline associations that cry about revenue and cost (dollars). The FAA could require a level playing field among the airlines with much more comfortable accommodations. But then the tickets would cost more, and fewer of the passengers wearing sweatpants and t-shirts could afford to fly around the country whenever they feel like it.
Just like they say that voters get the government they deserve, in the case of the airlines, the public has gotten the service they deserve, because of their constant demand for the cheapest fares.
There's legal, then there's legal but stupid. Some here can't understand the difference.
Even my best friend, a senior FBI agent, texted me last night about this. His text started with "WTF was United thinking?"
They are probably thinking the federal law is on their side and the other couple left without incident. United wasn't the one that forcibly removed him from the plane, it was law enforcement and federal law is on their side also.
Don't know about anyone else, but if I am on an aircraft and a law enforcement official asks me to leave, I leave peacefully and make my case later if I think I was in the right. There is zero upside in me resisting the officer. I am probably not going to whip all of them and if I did I will be the worse for wear when reinforcements arrive.
Bangs head on table
It's not about what United can legally do. Their contract of carriage was written by their lawyers and it undoubtedly absolves them of any and all responsibility for everything up to and including gutting Grandma with a spork. Yes they were legally within their rights to remove him. Yes the cops can legally remove him.
It's about what it's going to cost United in the court of public opinion. Right now that video is going viral in China. China is United's big targeted expansion market because they have the biggest route structure of any american airline in Asia. What's the message from that video? If you're an Asian guy causing no disturbance whatsoever & United wants the seat you've paid for then they'll drag you off the plane and beat you up. There are a billion Chinese and many of them have money, United wants some of that money. Having a video all over the internet of an Asian guy getting beaten up at the bequest of United isn't good for getting that money.
Again, it's not about what's legal. I can legally shoot my neighbor's 4 month old lab puppy for chasing the ducks around my pond but I don't do it because it would make me a dickhead and piss off my neighbor. It's called judgement and to get through day to day life it helps to have some of it. It also helps to have it when you're running a service based business. United doesn't make anything, they sell a service. When you send in cops to beat up your customers that did nothing other than avail themselves of that service then you're going to lose in the court of public opinion.
Legality be damned, people have a basic instinct about right and wrong and form their opinions based upon that. They don't care that section 42.b of the contract of carriage says that they can do that, they just know that a man minding his own business was screwed with and they'll remember that.
One saving grace for United might be that they already had the reputation of dismal service so it's kind of hard to make it much worse.
There's legal, then there's legal but stupid. Some here can't understand the difference.
Even my best friend, a senior FBI agent, texted me last night about this. His text started with "WTF was United thinking?"
They are probably thinking the federal law is on their side and the other couple left without incident. United wasn't the one that forcibly removed him from the plane, it was law enforcement and federal law is on their side also.
Don't know about anyone else, but if I am on an aircraft and a law enforcement official asks me to leave, I leave peacefully and make my case later if I think I was in the right. There is zero upside in me resisting the officer. I am probably not going to whip all of them and if I did I will be the worse for wear when reinforcements arrive.
Bangs head on table
It's not about what United can legally do. Their contract of carriage was written by their lawyers and it undoubtedly absolves them of any and all responsibility for everything up to and including gutting Grandma with a spork. Yes they were legally within their rights to remove him. Yes the cops can legally remove him.
It's about what it's going to cost United in the court of public opinion. Right now that video is going viral in China. China is United's big targeted expansion market because they have the biggest route structure of any american airline in Asia. What's the message from that video? If you an Asian guy causing no disturbance whatsoever & United wants the seat you've paid for then they'll drag you off the plane and beat you up. There are a billion Chinese and many of them have money, United wants some of that money. Having a video all over the internet of an Asian guy getting beaten up at the bequest of United isn't good for getting that money.
Again, it's not about what's legal. I can legally shoot my neighbor's 4 month old lab puppy for chasing the ducks around my pond but I don't do it because it would make me a dickhead and piss off my neighbor. It's called judgement and to get through day to day life it helps to have some of it. It also helps to have it when you're running a service based business. United doesn't make anything, they sell a service. When you send in cops to beat up your customers that did nothing other than avail themselves of that service then you're going to lose in the court of public opinion.
Legality be damned, people have a basic instinct about right and wrong and form their opinions based upon that. They don't care that section 42.b of the contract of carriage says that they can do that, they just know that a man minding his own business was screwed with and they'll remember that.
One saving grace for United might be that they already had the reputation of dismal service so it's kind of hard to make it much worse.
You are taking my response out of context. I am not absolving United. I only answered what were they thinking in my opinion. Their thinking was shortsighted to say the least.
I was also saying in my opinion that the passenger was stupid to react the way he did.
Now after the public backlash United's CEO has issued an apology statement. Yesterday his statement was one of defiance and blaming the passenger, today his tune has changed:
Dear Team,
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
My family got broken up by Delta ,my wife ,son and 2 year old Granddaughter,they were over booked and told us one would have to stay overnight,l told them my Granddaughter would stay behind,they said no, I protested and the agent said if one of didn't stay behind none of us could fly and Delta would not put us up.One day and 420 miles later we were back together again.
We now fly only Alaska and spend the extra 30 dollars for guarantee seat.
It is sad that they chose to break up a family traveling together. I would hope that is unusual.
The TSA never cared whether my son was 15 months or 15 years; they were intent on frisking me, my kid lying helpless next to a complete stranger on an airport bench be damned....or walking under their guide ropes while my hands were splayed in submission, so they had reason to then search a 2-year-old.
Quote
It is the policy of most of the airlines that when they have to involuntarily remove someone, the people that paid the least for their ticket get pulled off first. This is regardless of when they made their reservation, even months before. The computer displays this info to the agents, but it isn't exactly "random".
People that brag about getting the cheapest ticket possible should understand that their is more risk of being bumped. But the ticket agents and ticket websites never mention this fact.
This part actually makes perfect sense, and most, I think, would understand.....and, yes, that would generally mean I would risk being bumped.
But I hate to think that a public figure would be treated differently than a common 'Joe', or that the guy next to me has less rights than I do simply because he has a few traffic tickets...... which is where some seem to be going with this. And perhaps this particular passenger was warned that he was going to be forcibly removed if he didn't comply. If that is the case, then the airline was negligent and putting other passengers at risk by leaving them on board for a risky process involving a potentially combative passenger.
United has been, and remains, my favorite domestic airline.
Last time I flew them was '82 I think...something about being followed by Alaska's Gold Coast Service, long since discontinued, which made their cardboard food service seem rather lame. Heck, even Wien was better, and they weren't exactly healthy in those days.
The UA contract clearly said they could remove any passenger for any reason, should they? No, not in my opinion. But it is in writing. Watching that sniveling pussy scream like a stuck pig was pathetic, and nobody is talking about that...giving the wimp a complete pass after that pathetic display.
They should have done some real damage to the slimy lawsuit-seeker. When they told him to get his ass up, he should have gotten up. The rest is justified unless he was physically unable to rise. When he ran back onto the plane? Criminal trespass charges...
So you work in UA PR department or just applying for a job there? You are an idiot with a bully mindset! Now that's in writing.
Airlines sell tickets for a specific seat on a specific day. That seat is priced for a particular time of day, via a particular route to the final destination. The price of that seat is not fixed. The price is either discounted or marked up depending on the demand for each unique combination of travel services. Despite the fine print in their travel contract, the airline should be obligated to deliver the service specified.
Ultimately, they answer to the free market and the court of public opinion.
It can right or it could be wrong. It could be legal. I bet a dollar to a donut they don't want 6 on a jury deciding. They want care what the fine print on the ticket says. They will just watch the video. Hasbeen
If compensation for forced bumping started at 20x the ticket price, I bet their booking policies would be immediately vastly improved. It has just been too easy to let the passengers eat the problems for a long time.
I was more than happy to see NorthWorst disappear.
In the fine print on the ticket it says they have the right to do this. You buy the ticket, you agree to the terms. This is a PR nightmare, but it won't do the guy any good to hire a lawyer.
I have around 1/4 million miles on my mileage plan and will NOT fly united. if where I'm headed is not serviced ny another airline I'll get close and rent a car.
You figure he got one of these written statements?
"DOT requires each airline to give all passengers who are bumped involuntarily a written statement describing their rights and explaining how the carrier decides who gets on an oversold flight and who doesn't. Those travelers who don't get to fly are frequently entitled to denied boarding compensation in the form of a check or cash."
In the fine print on the ticket it says they have the right to do this. You buy the ticket, you agree to the terms. This is a PR nightmare, but it won't do the guy any good to hire a lawyer.
You wanna bet? The notion that laying down your hard earned cash only buys a vague notion that the airline gets you to a certain location, but only in a time frame that best suits them is ridiculous.
My sister and I were bumped off united years ago. I was 14 and she was 9 and we were returning from Ft. Meyers FL and were bumped from our connection at O'hare. That was back when first class served hand carved prime rib served on white linen. My sister and I had a 9 hour layover and it didn't phase us. Mom and dad were happy to get a couple round trip tickets plus some extra cash. The flight home in first class on a 747 was anti-climatic since I woke up to eat but otherwise slept the entire flight back to Seattle.
United done screwed the pooch and the cops that drug that goofy bastard did too. If that chink doctor is as scummy as that article suggests I hate that he'll walk with a fist full of dollars.
All the people oohing and ahhing in protest of the airlines actions yet nobody volunteered their seat.
I fly Alaska airlines almost exclusively and while most of their flight attendants are not much to look at they're a great airline. I don't see Alaska airlines handling an incident like this the same way as united did.
The flight crew or at least a few of them could have flown in the jump seat negating the need to bump as many people as they did. When we fly standby my wife will jump seat on the flight deck if needed. It's more cramped but at least we all get there. The flight deck jump seat isn't an option for most employees but there's extra jump seats in the cabin.
United has offered a profound apology for getting caught doing something that makes themselves look so bad.
I am glad all the other airlines are getting a good look at the response to this kind of treatment. KInda like the fat brat in the DRNK watching Trump's response to Asshat.
United had other options they did not use: 1. Rent the new crew a private plane. 2. Keep increasing the offer until somebody took it. AT $10,000 per seat they'd get 4 seats. 3. Always keep 4 seats open so they don't "Over book" when they have their own employees who need a lift.
What the hell right does UA have to put their commerical interest ahead of a passengers travel plans? I know about the fine print on ticket. Screw 'em.
You figure he got one of these written statements?
"DOT requires each airline to give all passengers who are bumped involuntarily a written statement describing their rights and explaining how the carrier decides who gets on an oversold flight and who doesn't. Those travelers who don't get to fly are frequently entitled to denied boarding compensation in the form of a check or cash."
The thing is, he wasn't denied boarding. He was on the plane in his seat. That sounds pretty well boarded.
United had other options they did not use: 1. Rent the new crew a private plane. 2. Keep increasing the offer until somebody took it. AT $10,000 per seat they'd get 4 seats. 3. Always keep 4 seats open so they don't "Over book" when they have their own employees who need a lift.
What the hell right does UA have to put their commerical interest ahead of a passengers travel plans? I know about the fine print on ticket. Screw 'em.
Book the crew members a Limo and drive them.
Uber.
Book them on a competitors airline.
Not screw up their employee schedules in the first place.
United has offered a profound apology for getting caught doing something that makes themselves look so bad.
I am glad all the other airlines are getting a good look at the response to this kind of treatment. KInda like the fat brat in the DRNK watching Trump's response to Asshat.
The only thing their CEO is sorry about are the calls for him to be "re-accomidated":
United had other options they did not use: 1. Rent the new crew a private plane. 2. Keep increasing the offer until somebody took it. AT $10,000 per seat they'd get 4 seats. 3. Always keep 4 seats open so they don't "Over book" when they have their own employees who need a lift.
What the hell right does UA have to put their commerical interest ahead of a passengers travel plans? I know about the fine print on ticket. Screw 'em.
With todays computers there is no reason that they can't set them up to prevent an over book situation. Add your 3rd suggestion and this never would have happened.
Hope he burns them to the ground! Fuggin airlines the only they could treat people any worse would to pull out all the seats and herd people in like cattle. Saw last flight just big of A$$holes DELTA staff was in every airport we were in !!and they all suck just as bad! GOOD LUCK to the man with his lawsuit!!
You pay for your seat in advance whether you show up or not. So the airlines' lame excuse that they would lose revenue by not overbooking just isn't true.
Hotels don't overbook. Baseball games don't overbook. Symphony orchestras don't overbook. It should be illegal for airlines to overbook.
And yes if it's only 295 miles from Chicago to Louisville, they should have rented a car.
You figure he got one of these written statements?
"DOT requires each airline to give all passengers who are bumped involuntarily a written statement describing their rights and explaining how the carrier decides who gets on an oversold flight and who doesn't. Those travelers who don't get to fly are frequently entitled to denied boarding compensation in the form of a check or cash."
OK, but this was NOT an oversold flight.
All the passengers were seated and ready to fly away.
The airline needed to boot a few passengers to make room for Airline employees, NOT oversold customers.
crow hunter, the gate agent simply can't push aside a policy and say "wow, this is stupid, I should just offer him another $500" Might (MIGHT) get the guy off the plane, but would cost that person their job.
There are 200+ people who didn't take the offer. Yeah, they should have upped it, but the gate person can't do that if the company policy outlines EXACTLY what they are supposed to do.
And that is the downfall of a business being ISO 9000 certified. When the self-described geniuses making written policies think they can call 100% of the shots ahead of time, there is no room for common sense.
crow hunter, the gate agent simply can't push aside a policy and say "wow, this is stupid, I should just offer him another $500" Might (MIGHT) get the guy off the plane, but would cost that person their job.
There are 200+ people who didn't take the offer. Yeah, they should have upped it, but the gate person can't do that if the company policy outlines EXACTLY what they are supposed to do.
And that is the downfall of a business being ISO 9000 certified. When the self-described geniuses making written policies think they can call 100% of the shots ahead of time, there is no room for common sense.
Theo,
It has been a long time since I have heard more wise words than these. Well-intended but ridged policies can lead to incredibly stupid behavior. I see this in my work every day.
United needed that flight crew down in Louisville to fly a plane obviously. They wouldn't have played hardball with paying passengers for a crew just going home.
slg888 you must not fly much?? I wonder if all employees must take a course of how to treat people like animals after they are hired??
I'm at the airport now, lol. If they tell me to get off the plane I'm not going to whimper & scream like a child. Sh*t happens with air travel, get off the plane like your told and negotiate afterwards. Screaming & throwing a temper tantrum is ridiculous....Asian man is a pussy.
You figure he got one of these written statements?
"DOT requires each airline to give all passengers who are bumped involuntarily a written statement describing their rights and explaining how the carrier decides who gets on an oversold flight and who doesn't. Those travelers who don't get to fly are frequently entitled to denied boarding compensation in the form of a check or cash."
OK, but this was NOT an oversold flight.
All the passengers were seated and ready to fly away.
The airline needed to boot a few passengers to make room for Airline employees, NOT oversold customers.
But he was INVOLUNTARILY bumped, yes? For all practical purposes, it was an OVERBOOKED flight. The airline either A)had enough seats for every passenger or B) didn't have enough seats.
If 'A' and they bumped him, then I guess they did just for shiets and giggles.
I got some info last night, second hand, but via an airline employee (not United but a competitor), here's some info that hasn't made the press. Before I type this, yes United is in a mess of public opinion, but absolutely nothing legally:
- there is a $50K penalty for a plane that misses it's takeoff window and/or landing window when it is not mechanical or weather related. Gate space is a premier at airports, they can't mess with the gate schedules.
- the issue was in the destination airport, there was a plane there that would be ready to fly, however the crew scheduled for that flight was hung up by weather elsewhere and wouldn't be making it. That necessitated suddenly moving a crew down there, or, you guessed it, missed flight 200+ people stranded and more gate penalty fees
- airlines (and hotels)overbook, there is a statistical rate of no shows, that come from missed connections, changed plans etc. No shows are a fact of life and airlines, all airlines, overbook to allow them to fill planes and they still don't always, how often have you had stand-bys get on a plane, that's a no show above and beyond overbooking.
- The gentlemen in question DID leave the plane, peacefully at first. He was out in the gate and then ran back on the plane to object and took his seat again. That is when security was called and he was forcibly removed
- He was not totally randomly selected, the computer goes by who hasn't checked baggage (they can't take off with baggage but not the owner), and then who paid the least price for the ticket, often done via places like travelocity etc, not the airline itself. Of those people, they randomly select.
So in summary, those saying "they should have kept raising the price for volunteers (including me)", they HAD 4 WILLING VOLUNTEERS OFF THE PLANE, this guy then changed his mind and essentially rushed the plane to get back on. a MAJOR NO-NO especially post 9-11
I got some info last night, second hand, but via an airline employee (not United but a competitor), here's some info that hasn't made the press. Before I type this, yes United is in a mess of public opinion, but absolutely nothing legally:
- there is a $50K penalty for a plane that misses it's takeoff window and/or landing window when it is not mechanical or weather related. Gate space is a premier at airports, they can't mess with the gate schedules.
- the issue was in the destination airport, there was a plane there that would be ready to fly, however the crew scheduled for that flight was hung up by weather elsewhere and wouldn't be making it. That necessitated suddenly moving a crew down there, or, you guessed it, missed flight 200+ people stranded and more gate penalty fees
- airlines (and hotels)overbook, there is a statistical rate of no shows, that come from missed connections, changed plans etc. No shows are a fact of life and airlines, all airlines, overbook to allow them to fill planes and they still don't always, how often have you had stand-bys get on a plane, that's a no show above and beyond overbooking.
- The gentlemen in question DID leave the plane, peacefully at first. He was out in the gate and then ran back on the plane to object and took his seat again. That is when security was called and he was forcibly removed
- He was not totally randomly selected, the computer goes by who hasn't checked baggage (they can't take off with baggage but not the owner), and then who paid the least price for the ticket, often done via places like travelocity etc, not the airline itself. Of those people, they randomly select.
So in summary, those saying "they should have kept raising the price for volunteers (including me)", they HAD 4 WILLING VOLUNTEERS OFF THE PLANE, this guy then changed his mind and essentially rushed the plane to get back on. a MAJOR NO-NO especially post 9-11
He was already bloodied and dazed when he came back on the plane.
slg888 you must not fly much?? I wonder if all employees must take a course of how to treat people like animals after they are hired??
I'm at the airport now, lol. If they tell me to get off the plane I'm not going to whimper & scream like a child. Sh*t happens with air travel, get off the plane like your told and negotiate afterwards. Screaming & throwing a temper tantrum is ridiculous....Asian man is a pussy.
Maybe a pussy but he is going to be a rich pussy. There was a retired judge that was quoted over on Facebook seems to think that United won't have a leg to stand on if this ever gets to court (he paid for the seat, boarded, and was in the seat; he didn't have to give it up under any circumstances). Having police remove him was another violation of his rights by the airline. The way the cops handled it made things even worse.
- The gentlemen in question DID leave the plane, peacefully at first. He was out in the gate and then ran back on the plane to object and took his seat again. That is when security was called and he was forcibly removed
So thats what the thumping was for. Probably had a bigger payday in mind, explains the screaming like a little bitch.
slg888 you must not fly much?? I wonder if all employees must take a course of how to treat people like animals after they are hired??
I'm at the airport now, lol. If they tell me to get off the plane I'm not going to whimper & scream like a child. Sh*t happens with air travel, get off the plane like your told and negotiate afterwards. Screaming & throwing a temper tantrum is ridiculous....Asian man is a pussy.
+1
I'll be getting on a United flight back to Denver this afternoon and I'm not worried.
slg888 you must not fly much?? I wonder if all employees must take a course of how to treat people like animals after they are hired??
I'm at the airport now, lol. If they tell me to get off the plane I'm not going to whimper & scream like a child. Sh*t happens with air travel, get off the plane like your told and negotiate afterwards. Screaming & throwing a temper tantrum is ridiculous....Asian man is a pussy.
Maybe a pussy but he is going to be a rich pussy. There was a retired judge that was quoted over on Facebook seems to think that United won't have a leg to stand on if this ever gets to court...
Yep
He could have taken $800 in worthless vouchers that you can't redeem for anything & the night in the hotel. No one would have ever heard anything about it & United would have gotten away with screwing another passenger like they do on a daily basis. This way he'll be able to retire in style on the payout he's set for. Lots of people would take a decent thumping by a cop for a multi million dollar lump sum payout, seems like it might be worth it to be set for the rest of your life.
Chicago, minority jury, Asian man beaten. Deep pocket corporation. Worldwide outrage over a video hundreds of millions have seen. Any halfway decent lawyer should be able to throw out the racism card and turn that into at least $10 million if not 10X that.
In the fine print on the ticket it says they have the right to do this. You buy the ticket, you agree to the terms. This is a PR nightmare, but it won't do the guy any good to hire a lawyer.
Unfortunately I agree. The airline industry is the only business that reserves their right to take away something that you paid for. Whether the compensation is really compensation I don't know. What I do know is that millions of people continue to use the airlines for travel. I don't. They have the choice. They pay their money and take their chances. To add: to maintain safety in this crazy terroristic world, the airline business has to respond quickly to any potential security risks. They are damned if they do, damned if they don't. The same people on that plane screaming how they mistreated that guy, would also be the same people who sued the airline if the guy got violent and injured them. We now know more about this so called Dr, and his history won't do him any favors. He is a felon, with a history of "anger issues" which had gotten him in trouble before.
So who exactly will be paying these millions? It wasn't United employees that did the beat down, it was either airport security or Chicago PD. Or will some warped jury find a way to have United pay for it?
It'll never go to court. They'll settle and the dude will get paid off with big bucks. It would have been a lot cheaper for United to keep upping the ante until someone took the deal.
Money talks and bull schit walks........unless, of coarse you get dragged off screaming like a little girl.
So who exactly will be paying these millions? It wasn't United employees that did the beat down, it was either airport security or Chicago PD. Or will some warped jury find a way to have United pay for it?
United will pay it.
It won't go to court. United will get slapped with multiple lawsuits from this guy's ambulance chasing lawyers. In a year from now after this all dies down it'll be scheduled for a court date and United will quietly settle for an "undisclosed sum" with a non-disclosure agreement signed by the guy.
Their alternative is to see this all replayed in the media a year from now for however long the lawyers can drag the trial out. That video will be on the news every night for the duration of the trial. United's stock price will drop again, it'll be all over social media again, there'll be boycotts and calls for the CEO to resign all over again. OR, they can reach into the piggy bank, pay the guy off and have it stay gone. If they'd reached into the piggy bank and paid an extra thousand to get somebody out of their seat a couple of days ago none of this would be happening right now. Hopefully somebody making the decisions now is a bit smarter than whatever dumba$$ made the decisions two days ago.
Many here don't seem to understand that the legality of what the cops did, or what United's legal rights are under the "contract of carriage" doesn't mean anything. This has nothing to do with what's legal, and it has nothing to do with whether the guy is gay, had his medical license suspended, or anything of that nature. It's all about the court of public opinion and what it's going to cost United in lost business if it continues to play out in the media. Maybe the lawsuit would get tossed out on legal merits, I don't know, I'm not a lawyer. It doesn't matter though, anyone can file a lawsuit for anything in the U.S. and as soon as that happens it's right back in the news again getting judged by the public. The public has already made up it's mind that United is in the wrong, they don't care about section 42b of the contract of carriage or that the cop can legally order the guy off the plane then manhandle him if he doesn't comply. They see the video and think United is in the wrong and they're a bunch of scumbags for doing it to a 69 year old mousy looking Asian guy. THAT'S all that matters and United needs it to go away pronto. Having it go away quietly will do much less damage to their bottom line than having it play out on the news again.
Or they can just thump their chests and proclaim loudly how they're in the right and they're not giving an inch. They tried that once, it hasn't worked out so well so far.
crow_hunter, I haven't agreed with much of what you've said on this thread, but the above post, I agree with 100%, don't like it, but I do agree with it. I wish we were in a world where things wouldn't play out like that, but I do believe you are perfectly on point on that post.
So who exactly will be paying these millions? It wasn't United employees that did the beat down, it was either airport security or Chicago PD. Or will some warped jury find a way to have United pay for it?
United will pay it.
It won't go to court. United will get slapped with multiple lawsuits from this guy's ambulance chasing lawyers. In a year from now after this all dies down it'll be scheduled for a court date and United will quietly settle for an "undisclosed sum" with a non-disclosure agreement signed by the guy.
Their alternative is to see this all replayed in the media a year from now for however long the lawyers can drag the trial out. That video will be on the news every night for the duration of the trial. United's stock price will drop again, it'll be all over social media again, there'll be boycotts and calls for the CEO to resign all over again. OR, they can reach into the piggy bank, pay the guy off and have it stay gone. If they'd reached into the piggy bank and paid an extra thousand to get somebody out of their seat a couple of days ago none of this would be happening right now. Hopefully somebody making the decisions now is a bit smarter than whatever dumba$$ made the decisions two days ago.
Many here don't seem to understand that the legality of what the cops did, or what United's legal rights are under the "contract of carriage" doesn't mean anything. This has nothing to do with what's legal, and it has nothing to do with whether the guy is gay, had his medical license suspended, or anything of that nature. It's all about the court of public opinion and what it's going to cost United in lost business if it continues to play out in the media. Maybe the lawsuit would get tossed out on legal merits, I don't know, I'm not a lawyer. It doesn't matter though, anyone can file a lawsuit for anything in the U.S. and as soon as that happens it's right back in the news again getting judged by the public. The public has already made up it's mind that United is in the wrong, they don't care about section 42b of the contract of carriage or that the cop can legally order the guy off the plane then manhandle him if he doesn't comply. They see the video and think United is in the wrong and they're a bunch of scumbags for doing it to a 69 year old mousy looking Asian guy. THAT'S all that matters and United needs it to go away pronto. Having it go away quietly will do much less damage to their bottom line than having it play out on the news again.
Or they can just thump their chests and proclaim loudly how they're in the right and they're not giving an inch. They tried that once, it hasn't worked out so well so far.
Cut the prices of their fares by a dollar and the public will forget all about boycotts and what they did to this poor doctor.
Crow Hunter, I think it ironic that you should reference United's contract of carriage, which lays out provisions for "involuntary denied boarding" in cases when the flight has been oversold. So while on the one hand you seem to be mocking the public consensus that United effed up while waiving their contract, on the other hand you seem to be both unfamiliar with both the contract and the facts of this case. The doctor wasn't denied boarding, he was boarded and then forcibly removed. The difference is more than a subtle distinction and the later is not provided for in said contract. Furthermore, the flight was not oversold. It was decision of United to accommodate their own staff. Again, not provided for in the contract.
slg888 you must not fly much?? I wonder if all employees must take a course of how to treat people like animals after they are hired??
I'm at the airport now, lol. If they tell me to get off the plane I'm not going to whimper & scream like a child. Sh*t happens with air travel, get off the plane like your told and negotiate afterwards. Screaming & throwing a temper tantrum is ridiculous....Asian man is a pussy.
+1
I'll be getting on a United flight back to Denver this afternoon and I'm not worried.
Crow Hunter, I think it ironic that you should reference United's contract of carriage, which lays out provisions for "involuntary denied boarding" in cases when the flight has been oversold. So while on the one hand you seem to be mocking the public consensus that United effed up while waiving their contract, on the other hand you seem to be both unfamiliar with both the contract and the facts of this case. The doctor wasn't denied boarding, he was boarded and then forcibly removed. The difference is more than a subtle distinction and the later is not provided for in said contract. Furthermore, the flight was not oversold. It was decision of United to accommodate their own staff. Again, not provided for in the contract.
I think you have misinterpreted what I said, I'm not sure how you got any of that from my posts. I didn't reference United's contract of carriage, I said it doesn't matter because United's problem isn't a legal one it's a public relations one. I'm not mocking the public consensus that United effed up, I think this was about as big of a F up as you can get. I agree with the public consensus. They should have never called the cops, there were other ways they could have accomplished their objective of getting their crew on board without any of this happening but someone at United was too dumb, lazy, or arrogant to pursue them.
Maybe you got the idea that I'm mocking because of my comment about his "ambulance chasing lawyer". I'm just stating what I think will happen and let's face it, even if the Doctor is in the right, which I think he is, the type of lawyers that involve themselves in matters like this are ambulance chasers. They're doing it for their 33% of the award and the publicity, not "justice". Sometimes an ambulance chaser is what you need.
I don't know what United was or wasn't allowed to do under the law but here is a lawyers opinion of how United screwed up. He claims under the current rules the bumping must happen before the passengers board the airplane. Once the passengers board the plane the airline can not just remove someone unless they have acted up in some way. In his opinion the bumping was illegal.
United Airlines Dragging Passenger Off Plane Was Illegal [International Business Times] Juliana Rose Pignataro International Business TimesApril 12, 2017
Not only did United Airlines make millions of enemies when it forcibly removed a passenger from a Louisville-bound flight, it also acted illegally, according to attorney Brian Mahany of Wisconsin-based Mahany Law.
Video emerged Sunday of aviation security officers physically removing a bloodied and screaming passenger from a flight by dragging him by his arms down the aisle of the plane. The company said it needed to make room for four of its employees on the flight and had randomly selected the man (along with three other passengers) after nobody volunteered to deplane.
“It’s illegal,” Mahany, who was part of a $16.6 billion fraud settlement with Bank of America in 2015 and specializes in consumer protection, told International Business Times in an interview Wednesday. “You can’t remove, under the current rules, a passenger once they’re seated on the aircraft. You can deny them entry if you’re overbooked, but once they’re on the aircraft, it’s a completely different set of rules.”
United, like all airlines, has protocol in place for overbooking incidents, said Mahany. Under United’s Rule 25: Denied Boarding Compensation, the airline lays out its responsibilities in dealing with an overbooked flight, but the rule deals only with passengers who have not yet boarded the plane.
Per these rules, the company would have had to deny entry to the passenger before, not after, he boarded the plane. In order to require someone to leave the plane who is already seated, Mahany said, they would need to provide a lawful reason.
“If they’re not dressed appropriately, if they have certain communicable diseases, if they’re drunk, if they’re violent, you can remove them,” he said. “If they don’t turn off their cell phone when they’re supposed to, you can remove them. If they won’t obey lawful instructions from a crew member, you can remove them. But telling someone, ‘Hey, we’ve overbooked, get off the plane,’ that wouldn’t be a lawful instruction.”
LawNewz, a website run by legal correspondent Dan Abrams, agreed that the company acted illegally when it forced the passenger to de-plane. The Department of Transportation's Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings said in a statement Tuesday that it had begun reviewing what happened on the flight.
“The Department remains committed to ensuring that airlines comply with consumer protection regulations and will not speculate during the review process on this matter,” it said, explaining that it would determine whether or not the airline complied with the DOT's "oversales rule."
The statement noted that “it is legal for airlines to involuntarily bump passengers when there are not enough volunteers” and that “it is the airline’s responsibility to determine its own fair boarding priorities.” It also explained that the airline would have to give all passengers who are bumped involuntarily a written statement describing their rights and detailing how the airline decided who was bumped, and that "the Department mandates compensation and other protections for passengers who have confirmed reserved space on a flight." The Department of Justice also said it was reviewing the incident.
Don't forget, Airlines have a vast team of lawyers on the payroll too.
All of that doesn't matter. When the jury sees the video and thinks that could be me. The Airline will just have to pay off. That is if it ever goes to trial. Hasbeen
Don't forget, Airlines have a vast team of lawyers on the payroll too.
All of that doesn't matter. When the jury sees the video and thinks that could be me. The Airline will just have to pay off. That is if it ever goes to trial. Hasbeen
Rush covered this in length the other day. At the end of the show, he had some "new" eveidence that has come to light.
Apparently the Dr was on the phone with someone just before or during the altercation. He was overheard or recorded as saying something to the effect, I'm going to make a scene and win a big law suit".
If true, and the jury hears this evidence, then his payoff plans may far short, really short.
United must be worried.. just heard on Fox that they're re-imbursing all of the passengers of that flight.. Just caught the tail end of the story so I'm not sure what or how much it will be..
This sissy boy,who sneaked back on the plane after he was escorted off the plane,fits all of the criteria needed to fulfill the liberals wet dream of victim-hood.
He is a homosexual,a convicted felon,a drug abuser,a sexual harasser and an all-around sumbag.
United is going to get hammered on this one. Now I'd put this in the 10's of millions for settlement if not more. Wonder how many other passengers will declare anxiety, trauma and bad dreams?
The passenger:
Concussion 2 broken front teeth Broken nose with sinus reconstruction required
Lawyers also dragging City of Chicago into this. As well as a 20 month pregnant woman in the next seat who is now in a state of fear.
Social media firestorm.......is a fart and a match. Nobody gives a flip really. United will drop ticket prices maybe, for a while, folks will sell their souls to save a buck.
I just want to see the felon dr slammed on his next flight. Maybe airport security will get it right next time.
United must be worried.. just heard on Fox that they're re-imbursing all of the passengers of that flight.. Just caught the tail end of the story so I'm not sure what or how much it will be..
Evidently this continues to evolve. I saw some stuff today that made it sound like the dragging down the aisle was the least of it. Evidently the Dr. lost teeth and suffered a concussion. Photo shows a pretty good flow of blood from his mouth.
United will get past this, but it will cost them plenty to buy their way back onto the gravy-train.
The social media "fire-storm" aside, there is so much wrong with what was carried out, it's hard to believe that adult humans were involved, or at least that we don't live in a publicly acknowledged police state.
I was on a small commuter flight recently. They needed to move a few people to make their weight and balance spec out. They didn't ask for volunteers; they didn't discreetly ask specific passengers to move; they didn't threaten to sit there until they got the needed volunteers. Nope, they simply offered alcohol or snack tray to whomever - from a certain section- would move, and they got it done. They even had people volunteering from outside the needed 'move-from' section.
People skills have value, something we better figure out if we insist, as a society, to move away from manufacturing and production into service sector jobs. Social media knows when it's wrong, but it teaches no one how to do it right.
I hope he cleans their clock, all the way from the pilots to the trash can emptier, maybe they will learn to treat people like humans, not cattle in fact most haulers treat cattle-livestock better than airlines treat people!@! SUM BIOTCHES
This sissy boy,who sneaked back on the plane after he was escorted off the plane,fits all of the criteria needed to fulfill the liberals wet dream of victim-hood.
He is a homosexual,a convicted felon,a drug abuser,a sexual harasser and an all-around sumbag.
Are you sure of that? I know I saw it reported as such, but today someone told me (didn't see it myself), that it was mistaken identity wijth someone of the same name.
Playing the race card as he did (if that report is accurate) earns him a place on my "interfering with a flight crew felony" guest list, or at least the no-fly list.
But yeah- United seems to be in a world of hurt by involuntary deplaning from an already boarded flight.
All this trouble when they could have just placed that extra flight crew on a Gulf Stream. Probably would have been faster. Definitely would have been cheaper.
All this trouble when they could have just placed that extra flight crew on a Gulf Stream. Probably would have been faster. Definitely would have been cheaper.
I deleted the article. A Louisville newspaper said the Doc supplied narcotic drugs to a fellow named Chase for sex. He then hired him and they ran a drug scam. He was prosecuted and convicted. He received probation and a brief suspension of his license. He did follow the pro poker circuit.I know that didn't affect this deal. He will come out like a bandit.
Overbooking is one thing, but I don't understand 'Hey, we need PAYING CUSTOMERS to leave, so we can have seats for some employees'
Epic f*ckup
The flight was not overbooked, overbooked flights are resolved BEFORE boarding the plane. This was boarded, THEN they found out they had to get a flight crew to the destination because they had a plane there that had no crew and couldn't take off. The intended crew was stuck due to weather and wasn't going to make it. they called in the "on call" crew and then needed to get them to the plane.
Without hindsight, what they TRIED to do made sense. Pay 4 people to spend the night in Chicago and get on tomorrows flight, so that US can get a flight crew to a plane stuck on the ground and NOT have to put 200 people up for the night and pay the HUGE penalty fees for canceling a flight and tieing up a gate.
It's a numbers game that works out fine 99% of the time. this time they "randomly" picked a guy who immediately saw it as a law suit he could make out on if he just stayed somewhat cool and refused the requests. It worked out great for him cause UA was stupid.
what they should have done is realize that if they keep upping the offer 4 people would take it, they stopped at $800 "flight dollars" and a night/food in a chicago hotel. Keep bumping it up, heck for $1000, hotel and first class tomorrow morning, I'd get off the plane.
Overbooking is one thing, but I don't understand 'Hey, we need PAYING CUSTOMERS to leave, so we can have seats for some employees'
Epic f*ckup
The flight was not overbooked, overbooked flights are resolved BEFORE boarding the plane. This was boarded, THEN they found out they had to get a flight crew to the destination because they had a plane there that had no crew and couldn't take off. The intended crew was stuck due to weather and wasn't going to make it. they called in the "on call" crew and then needed to get them to the plane.
Without hindsight, what they TRIED to do made sense. Pay 4 people to spend the night in Chicago and get on tomorrows flight, so that US can get a flight crew to a plane stuck on the ground and NOT have to put 200 people up for the night and pay the HUGE penalty fees for canceling a flight and tieing up a gate.
It's a numbers game that works out fine 99% of the time. this time they "randomly" picked a guy who immediately saw it as a law suit he could make out on if he just stayed somewhat cool and refused the requests. It worked out great for him cause UA was stupid.
what they should have done is realize that if they keep upping the offer 4 people would take it, they stopped at $800 "flight dollars" and a night/food in a chicago hotel. Keep bumping it up, heck for $1000, hotel and first class tomorrow morning, I'd get off the plane.
I KNOW it wasn't overbooked, I didn't say it was overbooked. I stated that overbooking is ONE thing, that kicking off people so United Employees could get someplace is a bad practice.
United just had a scorpion drop from an overhead bin, and sting a seated customer. No real fuss, a couple free travel vouchers, a fellow flyer was a nurse, and issued a pain killer, and no lawyers needed for either side. Just people acting like adults.
Overbooking is one thing, but I don't understand 'Hey, we need PAYING CUSTOMERS to leave, so we can have seats for some employees'
Epic f*ckup
The flight was not overbooked, overbooked flights are resolved BEFORE boarding the plane. This was boarded, THEN they found out they had to get a flight crew to the destination because they had a plane there that had no crew and couldn't take off. The intended crew was stuck due to weather and wasn't going to make it. they called in the "on call" crew and then needed to get them to the plane.
Without hindsight, what they TRIED to do made sense. Pay 4 people to spend the night in Chicago and get on tomorrows flight, so that US can get a flight crew to a plane stuck on the ground and NOT have to put 200 people up for the night and pay the HUGE penalty fees for canceling a flight and tieing up a gate.
It's a numbers game that works out fine 99% of the time. this time they "randomly" picked a guy who immediately saw it as a law suit he could make out on if he just stayed somewhat cool and refused the requests. It worked out great for him cause UA was stupid.
what they should have done is realize that if they keep upping the offer 4 people would take it, they stopped at $800 "flight dollars" and a night/food in a chicago hotel. Keep bumping it up, heck for $1000, hotel and first class tomorrow morning, I'd get off the plane.
I'm wondering why you choose to include this in your assessment.
Overbooking is one thing, but I don't understand 'Hey, we need PAYING CUSTOMERS to leave, so we can have seats for some employees'
Epic f*ckup
The flight was not overbooked, overbooked flights are resolved BEFORE boarding the plane. This was boarded, THEN they found out they had to get a flight crew to the destination because they had a plane there that had no crew and couldn't take off. The intended crew was stuck due to weather and wasn't going to make it. they called in the "on call" crew and then needed to get them to the plane.
Without hindsight, what they TRIED to do made sense. Pay 4 people to spend the night in Chicago and get on tomorrows flight, so that US can get a flight crew to a plane stuck on the ground and NOT have to put 200 people up for the night and pay the HUGE penalty fees for canceling a flight and tieing up a gate.
It's a numbers game that works out fine 99% of the time. this time they "randomly" picked a guy who immediately saw it as a law suit he could make out on if he just stayed somewhat cool and refused the requests. It worked out great for him cause UA was stupid.
what they should have done is realize that if they keep upping the offer 4 people would take it, they stopped at $800 "flight dollars" and a night/food in a chicago hotel. Keep bumping it up, heck for $1000, hotel and first class tomorrow morning, I'd get off the plane.
I'm wondering why you choose to include this in your assessment.
Overbooking is one thing, but I don't understand 'Hey, we need PAYING CUSTOMERS to leave, so we can have seats for some employees'
Epic f*ckup
The flight was not overbooked, overbooked flights are resolved BEFORE boarding the plane. This was boarded, THEN they found out they had to get a flight crew to the destination because they had a plane there that had no crew and couldn't take off. The intended crew was stuck due to weather and wasn't going to make it. they called in the "on call" crew and then needed to get them to the plane.
Without hindsight, what they TRIED to do made sense. Pay 4 people to spend the night in Chicago and get on tomorrows flight, so that US can get a flight crew to a plane stuck on the ground and NOT have to put 200 people up for the night and pay the HUGE penalty fees for canceling a flight and tieing up a gate.
It's a numbers game that works out fine 99% of the time. this time they "randomly" picked a guy who immediately saw it as a law suit he could make out on if he just stayed somewhat cool and refused the requests. It worked out great for him cause UA was stupid.
what they should have done is realize that if they keep upping the offer 4 people would take it, they stopped at $800 "flight dollars" and a night/food in a chicago hotel. Keep bumping it up, heck for $1000, hotel and first class tomorrow morning, I'd get off the plane.
I'm wondering why you choose to include this in your assessment.
Because it's probably accurate.
And even if he did..????
If you're going to pick the ones to leave by "computer algorithm", do it before they board. Otherwise, pay the lowest bidders who accept an offer and be done. $800 obviously wasn't enough. Picking someone to leave and expecting them to "take the offer" is obviously not a good business plan. Essentially you've chosen a limited field of bidders that way, and some won't take the offer.
"If you're going to pick the ones to leave by "computer algorithm", do it before they board."
That is just the problem. The need for the four seats to get a crew to a stranded airplane full of passengers in Louisville occurred after the flight had already been boarded.
But, of course, they should have upped the offer to get volunteers. But that agent had reached her dollar limit. A manager either wasn't available to raise the limit, or wouldn't stick their neck out to do that.
The agents are under extreme and unreasonable pressure to get the flights out as close to on-time as possible. The agent resorted to calling the cops to get the passenger off in order to get the door closed and the plane pushed off the gate.
The system treats people like cattle. The system treats the employees like crap, too. A bad system that needs a lot of improvement.
I've been on an Alaska flight that was effed up almost as bad. We all had assigned seats, but the plane flew from anchorage to deadhorse instead of anchorage to barrow, then barrow to deadhorse. There were passengers waiting in both places. When we boarded in deadhorse it was a schitshow trying to get everyone seated. Instead of assigned seats the gate agent called a first come first served and when all seats are full we're leaving......except we had way more people than seats.
There was pushing shoving, cursing and nearly fist fights.
As someone said, can't fault the gate agents in that they were doing as directed and trying to meet a time table as well as follow orders. The fine details may be fun to discuss, but this was not a "detail" mistake.
I think it's corporate stupidity. It was UL fault that they did not have a crew where needed, no matter WHAT the reason and it's their job to fix that - but not by hurting some people who bought seats and had their own timetables to meet - their customers. And, bring non-employees onto the plane to drag the guy out? Not an iota of UL control at that point. Corporate policy was dead wrong.
UL is a big and rich outfit. Is their CEO going to pretend that they had no OTHER good way to transport a needed crew? C'mon. Another airline, maybe? If nothing else, UL must have a corporate plane of some sort here and there. Use it.
The system treats people like cattle. The system treats the employees like crap, too. A bad system that needs a lot of improvement.
And perhaps that's a single silver lining this episode will prove to bear..... the 'conversation' which results in some much needed changes.
Delta has already announced an "up to nearly $10,000" compensation deal...don't know the fine details, but this is going to cost all airlines in some ways. Of course, ultimately, that means we'll all pay more to travel on big iron.
Delta has already announced an "up to nearly $10,000" compensation deal...don't know the fine details, but this is going to cost all airlines in some ways. Of course, ultimately, that means we'll all pay more to travel on big iron.
Exactly, Iam already noticing unusually higher fares to the destination I fly to on a regular basis.
F%^K their F%*KING flight crew !! Do they think they are more important than their customers??? Saw it in airports, flight crews waiting to fly, arrogant, self centered, just stand and grin as people plead their case for needing to be an a flight!!! BURN EM ALL !!!!!
I've been on an Alaska flight that was effed up almost as bad. We all had assigned seats, but the plane flew from anchorage to deadhorse instead of anchorage to barrow, then barrow to deadhorse. There were passengers waiting in both places. When we boarded in deadhorse it was a schitshow trying to get everyone seated. Instead of assigned seats the gate agent called a first come first served and when all seats are full we're leaving......except we had way more people than seats.
There was pushing shoving, cursing and nearly fist fights.
I guess I missed my 10 million dollar window.
ROFL! I used to fly AK airlines a lot, when I lived up there. The "Happy Eskimo" on the tail of the plane..... sounds like a pretty exciting mess when they flew the triangle wrong on your flight.
Delta has already announced an "up to nearly $10,000" compensation deal...don't know the fine details, but this is going to cost all airlines in some ways. Of course, ultimately, that means we'll all pay more to travel on big iron.
Exactly, Iam already noticing unusually higher fares to the destination I fly to on a regular basis.
I wish the existence of commercial flight would cease entirely.
It's their airplanes, their conditions. With all the airline mergers over the last few years they have the upper hand. If one wants to fly from Chicago to Louisville it's either United or a road trip on a Greyhound bus.
It is said he exited the plane, called his lawyer in the terminal, and the lawyer told him to get back onto the plane. When he did so he might have ignored gate people who told him there was now no seats. He just became a gate crasher.
Might be a problem if it ever went to trial...which it won't.
It is said he exited the plane, called his lawyer in the terminal, and the lawyer told him to get back onto the plane. When he did so he might have ignored gate people who told him there was now no seats. He just became a gate crasher.
Might be a problem if it ever went to trial...which it won't.
Interesting to see if United plays hard ball with him. They might if he did something criminal.
It is said he exited the plane, called his lawyer in the terminal, and the lawyer told him to get back onto the plane. When he did so he might have ignored gate people who told him there was now no seats. He just became a gate crasher.
Might be a problem if it ever went to trial...which it won't.
That's fine. But I can't find any video of that and United has stated he didn't do anything wrong.
If nothing else their CEO is a dumb fugk and I hope they pay through the nose.
It is said he exited the plane, called his lawyer in the terminal, and the lawyer told him to get back onto the plane. When he did so he might have ignored gate people who told him there was now no seats. He just became a gate crasher.
Might be a problem if it ever went to trial...which it won't.
Interesting to see if United plays hard ball with him. They might if he did something criminal.
It is said he exited the plane, called his lawyer in the terminal, and the lawyer told him to get back onto the plane. When he did so he might have ignored gate people who told him there was now no seats. He just became a gate crasher.
Might be a problem if it ever went to trial...which it won't.
Interesting to see if United plays hard ball with him. They might if he did something criminal.
Enter exhibit C.
I believe that you mean, "exhibit sea, of c notes".
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