Harley customer base is 51 years old. Millenials, have little use for Hot cars, which we friggin' drooled over and still do. Little use for motorcycles, And, and and losing interest in screwing. What millennials do desire ...they want for free.
Now, if Harley was to bring back something like the old sevi-cars , and fill the back up with batteries and make an electric MC, like they failed at 10-12 years ago. Maybe a millennial would take a look. Premier parking places in urban millennial haunts ( example Whole Foods) are #1 handicapped....#2 parking for electrics or hybrids.
Harley is afraid to market electric bikes or scooters in their dealerships.... for fear of losing more of their aging customer base.
As an aside, Harley is in talks with VW to buy Ducati.
I have owned a number of Ducs, still ride European bikes.... the last Milwaukee vibrator I had was a tank shift.
Enjoying my retirement from H-D . Got out with the full package. Cut it pretty close tho'. Another three days and everything would have gone down the drain.
Harley customer base is 51 years old. Millenials, have little use for Hot cars, which we friggin' drooled over and still do. Little use for motorcycles, And, and and losing interest in screwing. What millennials do desire ...they want for free.
That's because the Feminists have corrupted Pop Culture into celebrating Pajama Boy as the template for the White male and a Black NBA player for a sex partner. Seems they want the whimpy White boy to support them and run their children home from after school care but when they get horney they look up a macho dude. If you doubt it, look at the popularity of the Kardashians over the past decade.
I went to the annual open House at the Harley dealership last month and it was packed with fat old bikers (like me). I'm planning one last road trip in August then my 97 Heritage Springer is going up for sale. At 81 years old I think it's time.
Times change. Some companies die with the changing times, some thrive, some adapt, some don't. It's the way of things
During the early Reagan era they were struggling, and they fell on marginal hard times again just before the dot com boom where it became stylish for cash flush 45 year olds to own one.
They'll survive I'm sure but they'll need to figure out a way to connect to a new audience. Right now it appears that selling $15K heavy cruisers isn't the approach.
I dunno why anyone would buy s friggin Harley anyway. They tout the American made crisp but it's really just American assembled. And the price you pay is simply for a name
Harley will be OK, for a while at least, albeit at a reduced sales level & w/o the growth year over year that they have experienced for the last 10 years or so.
The market is pretty well saturated with lots of bikes bought by marginal riders during that time & that, added to the millennial situation, will surley contract sales.
Harley will need to downsize & re-adjust for a while to stay efficient & profitable.
The problem is that wall street & investors expect the growth curve (in every business) to never fall or flatten out & that's just not reality.
Right now it appears that selling $15K heavy cruisers isn't the approach.
If those heavy cruisers really were $15K, they'd sell a lot more...................a new Street Glide (not the Street Guide Special) is $22K+ & a new Ultra is around $28-30K.
Without providing numbers for Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Ducati, Triumph, etc., it's tough to claim the younger crowd doesn't ride or like bikes.
It could be that a lighter, faster, better handling, quieter and less expensive bike is what the younger generation is purchasing.
As an aside, Harley is in talks with VW to buy Ducati. .
I don't really keep up with the MC scene since I sold my last bikes in '08. I owned several Ducatis over the years and loved each of them. I have no doubt that Harley Davidson would royally screw up Ducati...they simply won't get it.
Harley customer base is 51 years old. Millenials, have little use for Hot cars, which we friggin' drooled over and still do. Little use for motorcycles, And, and and losing interest in screwing. What millennials do desire ...they want for free.
That's because the Feminists have corrupted Pop Culture into celebrating Pajama Boy as the template for the White male and a Black NBA player for a sex partner. Seems they want the whimpy White boy to support them and run their children home from after school care but when they get horney they look up a macho dude. If you doubt it, look at the popularity of the Kardashians over the past decade.
Not surprising at all, snowflakes melt in the sun and can no way feel safe on a motorcycle, where in hell would they store their readily available companion animals, bags of marshmallows, coloring books and hot chocolate?
Not surprising at all, snowflakes melt in the sun and can no way feel safe on a motorcycle, where in hell would they store their readily available companion animals, bags of marshmallows, coloring books and hot chocolate?
You left out the glow sticks and pacifiers for their Ecstasy trips.
Harley customer base is 51 years old. Millenials, have little use for Hot cars, which we friggin' drooled over and still do. Little use for motorcycles, And, and and losing interest in screwing. What millennials do desire ...they want for free.
That's because the Feminists have corrupted Pop Culture into celebrating Pajama Boy as the template for the White male and a Black NBA player for a sex partner. Seems they want the whimpy White boy to support them and run their children home from after school care but when they get horney they look up a macho dude. If you doubt it, look at the popularity of the Kardashians over the past decade.
Not surprising at all, snowflakes melt in the sun and can no way feel safe on a motorcycle, where in hell would they store their readily available companion animals, bags of marshmallows, coloring books and hot chocolate?
You left out the glow sticks and pacifiers for their Ecstasy trips.
Right, because the millenials are the first generation in history with pansy assed males that just wanted to trip out on drugs
Or not.
No, these "Woodstock" doper hippie freaks should have been the first test media for prototype "Woodchippers" back in the day, these fu-kin worhtless freaks gave birth to most of todays problems.
As a gen X in rural America, I just never could get that a Harley wasn't for a particular style of person. Not limited to Hells Angels by any means but I never imagined a Harley would be an upper class status symbol. Kind of like pickup trucks I guess. A pickup truck is a tool not a status symbol
I've toyed with the idea of owning one and even bought a jap cruiser for awhile but I just never felt I was a Harley guy. Probably because of just the perception I had from growing up.
Now with the young generation now, they just don't want to do .....anything
They'll play a video game where you pretend you're a gang member and steal a motorcycle, riding it around on virtual streets. For $59, that's their Harley Davidson experience.
Right now it appears that selling $15K heavy cruisers isn't the approach.
If those heavy cruisers really were $15K, they'd sell a lot more...................a new Street Glide (not the Street Guide Special) is $22K+ & a new Ultra is around $28-30K.
MM
yea I read that wrong in the article. $15K is how much revenue they generate...per motorcycle
Revenue per motorcycle rose about $437 to $15,530 in the quarter, but revenue from motorcycles and related products fell about 5.6 percent to $1.58 billion.
JFC....that's a lot of money for a bike.
I remember looking at the brand new 883 for $4100 in 1989 and thinking that was a fortune.
I guess I'm one of the contrarian "boomers" at 68 -- just bought a cruiser much to my wife's chagrin. Had one through school in the 70's and loved it. I'm not a HD guy though; nor am I a really big bike rider either.
It's tough to beat cruising back roads during the heat of summer listening to favorite tunes which perfectly fits my part-time 30-mile commute
I dunno why anyone would buy s friggin Harley anyway. They tout the American made crisp but it's really just American assembled. And the price you pay is simply for a name
One could say that about any/every vehicle manufacturer in the US..
As to some wondering why buy an HD? That sound, man - that sound.... Add a complete set of Rineharts, bigger air intake and a tuner - and it's a ride like no other.. And I've owned 2 Suzukis, 2 Kawasakis, 2 Triumphs, 5 other HDs etc, and the '14 Ultra I have now might be the very last bike I ever ride and/or need.. The grin always appears when I hit that starter button..
Young folks are buying Harleys left and right. My sons and their friends all have Harleys but only one bought his new. They just are not buying new bikes because they are to expensive. Heck, I will not buy a new bike because of the price. I just wrote up a guy in his late 20's that brought in his new to him Harley for some work. He picked up his '06 FXD for $6k. Sportsters are selling like hot cakes. Half of my customers are under 30.
I dunno why anyone would buy s friggin Harley anyway. They tout the American made crisp but it's really just American assembled. And the price you pay is simply for a name
Harley Davidson sales may be in a slump but I still am seeing (and more I don't see but hear) plenty of the younger generation riding the high rev'ing Tupperware crotch rockets out and about all the time. Same goes for Japanese brand Harley cruiser imitators.
plenty of the younger generation riding the high rev'ing Tupperware crotch rockets out and about all the time.
That's what I did when I was younger too, but eventually moved to bigger bikes & Harleys.
Likely as they grow older & their needs & perspectives change from a lot of single riding & street racing to more double riding & cruising, they will move to a different type of bike as well.
If you rode the small bore Honda's in the 60's, one never gets motorcycles out of their now ingrained DNA.
One of these motorcycle companies needs to bring back those bad-azz'd 90cc's-185cc's. No male teens could resist and I assure you they won't be the panzies they are today. There are no participation trophies other than the road rash and broken bones...., Bring it!
If you rode the small bore Honda's in the 60's, one never gets motorcycles out of their now ingrained DNA.
One of these motorcycle companies needs to bring back those bad-azz'd 90cc's-185cc's. No male teens could resist and I assure you they won't be the panzies they are today. There are no participation trophies other than the road rash and broken bones...., Bring it!
DMc : )
If every parent issued their kid a 22rf rifle and a mini bike, we would live in utopia.
I had a three cylinder Kawasaki 500 in 1969. It was the fastest street bike on the market at the time. 0 to 60 in so many seconds (cant remember how many) It was like being strapped to a rocket. It's a wonder I lived through that period.
Those were the first and forerunners of today's Japanese crotch rockets - amazing performance for the day. I remember a shootout between the Kawasaki 500, the new three cylinder Triumph 750 Trident and Norton 750 Commando sometime around the early 70's. The Kawi had the fastest time through the quarter mile, the Triumph had the highest top end and the Norton was in between both of them. - second fastest quarter mile and second highest top end.
I'll be 65 this year and a few months ago bought a bright red Yamaha FZ07 700 cc twin (689 to be exact), so I'm not exactly helping Harley's longevity.
Maybe there it is so , but here there seems to be no shortage of superannuated fellows pulling up in their nice new chrome studded leathers complete with frills that would make pocohontas swoon and go weak at the knees, days of hard men riding rats has gone.
I had a three cylinder Kawasaki 500 in 1969. It was the fastest street bike on the market at the time. 0 to 60 in so many seconds (cant remember how many) It was like being strapped to a rocket. It's a wonder I lived through that period.
I went to the annual open House at the Harley dealership last month and it was packed with fat old bikers (like me). I'm planning one last road trip in August then my 97 Heritage Springer is going up for sale. At 81 years old I think it's time.
Are you running straight pipes to the fish tails? baffles? maybe there's a muffler I can't see under the bag...
I wouldn't say they have little interest i see tons of younger folks on bikes. My kids prefer dirt bikes. He wants an adventure bike after that. Id say HD sales are down because they sell a $15K bike for $35k.
I'd have one in a heartbeat if the cost wasn't so nuts. I can buy 40ac of land for $35k. The don't make that anymore.
Those were the first and forerunners of today's Japanese crotch rockets - amazing performance for the day. I remember a shootout between the Kawasaki 500, the new three cylinder Triumph 750 Trident and Norton 750 Commando sometime around the early 70's. The Kawi had the fastest time through the quarter mile, the Triumph had the highest top end and the Norton was in between both of them. - second fastest quarter mile and second highest top end.
I'll be 65 this year and a few months ago bought a bright red Yamaha FZ07 700 cc twin (689 to be exact), so I'm not exactly helping Harley's longevity.
The Mach IV came out when I was in high school and I actually put a small deposit down on one that winter. Luckily the little dealership went belly up before delivery and I ended up buying a Yamaha instead. Had a few close calls on that one, but I probably would have killed myself for sure on that Kawasaki bullet.
I had a three cylinder Kawasaki 500 in 1969. It was the fastest street bike on the market at the time. 0 to 60 in so many seconds (cant remember how many) It was like being strapped to a rocket. It's a wonder I lived through that period.
The infamous Kawasaki H1 triple, the widowmaker. 384# with 60 hp. While the power pales in comparison to a current 600cc four stroke that weighs 410# and puts out 110+hp, the real issue with the late 60's and 70's vintage bikes is the chassis, tires and brakes were woefully inadequate.
I would take a swag that provided the bottom end and transmission can handle it, proper development with tuned pipes, porting, reeds, carbs and head work could bump the H1 triple in the 90hp neighborhood. Insane in the original bike, downright sporting in a modern chassis.
The market is saturated with good used product. Simple as that.
Polaris industries axed production of the victory brand and slid all their eggs into the Indian brand. (probably due to the above ^^^)
There are soooo many bike choices for true riding enthusiasts. Dirt, dual sport, adventure dirt/pavement, adventure pavement, cruisers, customs, choppers, bobbers, board track tributes, cafe racer tributes.... (I'm barely scratching the surface).
For the most part, big harley's are often "garage queens". They have been good quality bikes in recent decades, basically from the Evo's on up (yes even twin cams) and there are tons of them out there for sale with low miles and in pristine condition. People are buying THOSE bikes (if they are looking for Harleys).
But, with young people that actually have a pulse and are able to detach from their social media tethers for more than 30 minutes without dying... Adventure/sport bikes are more popular than fat lazy cruisers like I ride.
I had a three cylinder Kawasaki 500 in 1969. It was the fastest street bike on the market at the time. 0 to 60 in so many seconds (cant remember how many) It was like being strapped to a rocket. It's a wonder I lived through that period.
I remember....$999 meet God machine........
They had one on one of those cable TV auction shows recently. Perfect condition. Might have fetched $10K - don't recall for sure. The commentators were saying how a lot of them got resold just because the power to weight ratio was so outrageous that they scared a lot of riders.
I tried REALLY,REALLY hard to like H-D's for a looooong time. I believed it was my responsibility as a good Wisconsonite, sort of akin to being a Packers fan. Every time I've ridden one, though, it's been a disappointing experience. Mediocre handling, poor ergonomics, and low power meant The Motor Company will be getting no money from me.
Harley doesn't market to that crowd. This crowd doesn't want to go to a dealership, they want to order online and customize. harley has invested huge in their dealerships while the world is going Amazon.
I tried REALLY,REALLY hard to like H-D's for a looooong time. I believed it was my responsibility as a good Wisconsonite, sort of akin to being a Packers fan. Every time I've ridden one, though, it's been a disappointing experience. Mediocre handling, poor ergonomics, and low power meant The Motor Company will be getting no money from me.
An interesting comparison is looking at a 1967 camero ss 396 vs. a 2017 camero 1ss $3250 vs $40,000. Price is 12 times higher and major improvements in fit, finish, ride quality, reliability and safety. Just comparing engines the 2017 has 5% less displacement, produces 20% more hp at the rear wheels than the 1967 did at the crank and fuel economy is 50% better.
Comparing electra glides, 1967 $1600, 2017 $25,000, price has jumped 15 times. I have no doubt advances have been made in ride quality and reliability, but the 2017 engine displacement has been increased by 45% and fuel economy is the same or possibly worse with current bike.
Right, because the millenials are the first generation in history with pansy assed males that just wanted to trip out on drugs
Or not.
You have pictured the birth of today's Progressive Left: Anti-war protesters and Counter Culture hippies. That was the spawn of the Green Movement, Social Permissivism, and the all out attack on the Right. Yep, you nailed it and never knew what you were on to.
I wouldn't say they have little interest i see tons of younger folks on bikes. My kids prefer dirt bikes. He wants an adventure bike after that. Id say HD sales are down because they sell a $15K bike for $35k.
Yeah, right...
Quote
I'd have one in a heartbeat if the cost wasn't so nuts.
Buy a 2-3 year old used bike with under 15K on the odometer and save about 10 grand.
Quote
I can buy 40ac of land for $35k. .
LMAO.. Not around here you can't.. You might be able to buy 5-8A for that, tops.....and probably only if it was swamp or forest..
Those were the first and forerunners of today's Japanese crotch rockets - amazing performance for the day. I remember a shootout between the Kawasaki 500, the new three cylinder Triumph 750 Trident and Norton 750 Commando sometime around the early 70's. The Kawi had the fastest time through the quarter mile, the Triumph had the highest top end and the Norton was in between both of them. - second fastest quarter mile and second highest top end.
I'll be 65 this year and a few months ago bought a bright red Yamaha FZ07 700 cc twin (689 to be exact), so I'm not exactly helping Harley's longevity.
Yep; had a bored out 350 Kawa- in the early seventies that you had to hang on to or it would leap out from under you.
Just got a used Yama- V-Star 650 Classic after forty years of four sedentary wheels. It's some kind of sublime to hit 65 on a lonesome, hot summer day, back road.
Right, because the millenials are the first generation in history with pansy assed males that just wanted to trip out on drugs
Or not.
You have pictured the birth of today's Progressive Left: Anti-war protesters and Counter Culture hippies. That was the spawn of the Green Movement, Social Permissivism, and the all out attack on the Right. Yep, you nailed it and never knew what you were on to.
Oh I'm well aware what they spawned.
I will say that as much as I respect the "greatest generation" I sadly have to say that they not only sired but tilled the soil that created the "self absorbed rather than self sacrificing" generation. I completely understand why a generation that grew up in the great depression and went through sacrifice and suffering of WWII would want to protect their children from the pain and suffering they experienced. The trouble is you remove the conditions necessary for the development of character in a human, and you breed ungrateful malcontents.
Not my thing. My Dad always had a Harley but you couldn't give me one. I just don't have any interest. Only guys where I work that have them all have white hair. The few young guys that ride a motorcycle have some sort of Japanese bike. I agree waaaaaaaaay overpriced and they they charge you $30 for a t-shirt and have 500% mark up on Harley branded accessories. My buddy used to own 2 and I told him he was a damn fool for paying what they wanted for this little chrome rack for the back of the bike. They had about $5 in that thing and it was like $120.
I see lots of millennials riding bikes. Bikes that don't cost $24k and don't leave them stranded or need to be trailered. Yeah, trailered. Can't count the times I've watched Harleys headed to Sturgis or headed south in a trailer.
Dual Sport does seem to be the current "thing" with young riders. The crotch rockets are still popular. Young people don't generally have the time to cruise on a Goldwing, but they still ride. Harley likes to make people think they have a sporty model, but no....
I can't fault someone for wanting something that works and costs less at the same time.
I can only speak to my area, and immediate group of friends (ages 45-55). Most of us have ridden, or still ride dirt bikes. A few have HD's, one an Indian (nifty bike), and quite a few have the "adventure" bikes. I see a LOT of bmw's on the roads these days. And even a fair spattering of Triumphs. That said, the younger crowd (less than 30) "seem" to be more on crotch rockets, or scooters. Not much in between, and rarely ever on a cruiser type bike.
And for what it is worth. I spend my time on a triumph speed triple.
Millennials have no balls and want everything for free.
Maybe some, somewhere. But none that I know. In fact, I don't know any of the obscenely strange people like TV, movies and fake news would have me believe the world is full of.
My eyes were opened when I got my "first" bike after 40 years, a Honda CB500X. I was talking about it to one of the early 20-something waitresses at a local burger joint and she mentioned a motorcycle one of the owners had recently bought, and in trying to describe it she said it "wasn't an old man motorcycle" - meaning a Harley cruiser.
My first vehicle was a Harly TX125 endure. It vibrated so bad, it lost it's own oil plug. Had a top speed of 62mph if I was laying down on the tank. It's what I learned to ride with, but ever again. In a few months, I should have the funds to start looking for a bike, again. (I was a motorcycle courier in California. Among other jobs.)
I see lots of millennials riding bikes. Bikes that don't cost $24k and don't leave them stranded or need to be trailered. Yeah, trailered. Can't count the times I've watched Harleys headed to Sturgis or headed south in a trailer.
Dual Sport does seem to be the current "thing" with young riders. The crotch rockets are still popular. Young people don't generally have the time to cruise on a Goldwing, but they still ride. Harley likes to make people think they have a sporty model, but no....
I can't fault someone for wanting something that works and costs less at the same time.
I don't think you know much about the newer Harleys.......................except maybe the price.
I know a bunch of millenials here that would out ride, out work, out play and generally out do all you old chest pounding "hard chargers" on your best day.
Harley customer base is 51 years old. Millenials, have little use for Hot cars, which we friggin' drooled over and still do. Little use for motorcycles, And, and and losing interest in screwing. What millennials do desire ...they want for free.
That's because the Feminists have corrupted Pop Culture into celebrating Pajama Boy as the template for the White male and a Black NBA player for a sex partner. Seems they want the whimpy White boy to support them and run their children home from after school care but when they get horney they look up a macho dude. If you doubt it, look at the popularity of the Kardashians over the past decade.
...if Harley is only feeling the effects in recent years then they've been doing really well.
Hard for me to believe the Millennials are totally wussed out, heck seems like in that climate any guy going old-school macho would be deluged with more tail than they could imagine, access to women being a priority among young men after all (a major reason why I got into motorcycles in a big way, back then I couldn't afford transportation AND a social life, so had to combine the two).
I will say that it seems a bit off the mark to compare the old two-stroke "rrrring-dinnng" death machines to modern sport bikes. I don't recall that those twitchy triples with their narrow on-off powerbands, crappy frames, weak suspensions and inadequate brakes were copies of actual race bikes. Sport bikes generally are, at least incorporating racetrack-based technology, and have been simply excellent machines for decades now.
I dunno why anyone would buy s friggin Harley anyway. They tout the American made crisp but it's really just American assembled. And the price you pay is simply for a name
You are a moron. Get your facts straight.
Good luck with that one.
First of all let us dispense with some of the more egregious accessories:
Official Harley Davidson boots - China HOG Leathers - S. Korea Official Harley-Davidson lingerie, t-shirts, bandannas, gloves, raingear, jeans etc etc - various Third World sweatshops.
As to the bikes themselves, Harley is understandably vague on the topic, stating that the 'amount of foreign-sourced parts varies between models and model years' (are the recent 500 and 750 "Street" models really assembled in India?). But as for those regular Harleys assembled here, its been awhile since I looked into it but I'm recalling....
Keihin and Mikuni carbs- Japan Arai wheels - Japan Showa forks - Japan Nippon Denso electronics/wiring - Japan Virtually all bolts and fasteners - Taiwan
Thirty years ago the rumor was that Gold Wings, by then assembled in the US, incoporated more domestic parts than the average Harley.
Well, if Harley sales really are declining perhaps we can look forward to a day when virtually every decent and/or famous motorcycle road in America isn't clogged with slow-moving rafts of Harley Barcaloungers impeding those who wish to ride or drive in a more nimble fashion.
Well, if Harley sales really are declining perhaps we can look forward to a day when virtually every decent and/or famous motorcycle road in America isn't clogged with slow-moving rafts of Harley Barcaloungers impeding those who wish to ride or drive in a more nimble fashion.
Dunno if I'll live to see that day tho.
I own a big bulky tank of a Harley and I push those self right-chase speed demon crotch rockets right out of my way if they do not know how to drive them.
I commute on mine no pleasure riding so if you can not keep up get out of the way.
I will pull over and let them pass if they come up behind me.
But it pisses me off to no end when they hold up a guy that wants to get through and get home.
Didn't actually own a car until I was 40, ate, slept, commuted and had sex on or around motorcycles for twelve years and 250,000 miles prior to that time.
Wouldn't dream of pushing anyone out of my way (as opposed for waiting for a chance to pass) and I got nothing at all against Harleys either.
Its when vast rafts of Harley riders as I described, often in stern-faced organized groups complete with such things as "Road Captains" and matching vests, enforce a sort of de-facto sedate speed limit on our best motorcycle roads that I can get irritated
In particular the effect on our Texas Hill Country backroads over the 30 plus years I've been here have been simply unreal. Its been seven years now since I last rode cross-country on a motorcycle (I do bicycles now ), but everywhere I went (including the Tail of the Dragon and Marcus Dairy), same story.
they made them too good for too many years. plus they got greedy and they increased production until the market was flooded. plus the price went through the roof even though they were never a cheap bike. why pay 25k for one when you can get a real nice used one for 8-10k with low miles? i love mine but if i ever decide to get another, i will be buying used. you really can't go wrong. good solid bikes. and if you have to ask why HD and not jap, well you wouldn't understand.
oh ya, and about the millenials, most of them are queers.
Bought a KLR and having a blast, cant afford a Harley without feel guilty about spending my kids college on a motorcycle. Even if I had the funds, I'd forego the harley and go hunt elk or sheep 😉
Used is the way to go right now. Honestly I want a triumph tiger XC pretty badly, but right now I can get around at cruiser pace for a fraction of the cost on a nice used Harley.
I will keep the harley I have because it was my uncles bike, but I will get that triumph some day.
Millenials, have little use for Hot cars, which we friggin' drooled over and still do. Little use for motorcycles, And, and and losing interest in screwing. What millennials do desire ...they want for free.
I preferred dirt bikes when the son was home. He enjoys road bikes now when he gets time. Seems the young folks around here either want a diesel pickup truck, or , a crotch rocket. Three of the "bumble bees" went zipping past here in the time it took me to read this thread. I gotta make time to drive the Dragon Tail some day. I can't fathom that it turns much more nor worse than some of the back roads and hollers around here...
I tend to have little interest in things I can't afford either. Harley is just going to have to sharpen their pencil and figure how to stay profitable till these 30 yr olds grow older and more financially stable.
I dunno why anyone would buy s friggin Harley anyway. They tout the American made crisp but it's really just American assembled. And the price you pay is simply for a name
You are a moron. Get your facts straight.
Good luck with that one.
First of all let us dispense with some of the more egregious accessories:
Official Harley Davidson boots - China HOG Leathers - S. Korea Official Harley-Davidson lingerie, t-shirts, bandannas, gloves, raingear, jeans etc etc - various Third World sweatshops.
As to the bikes themselves, Harley is understandably vague on the topic, stating that the 'amount of foreign-sourced parts varies between models and model years' (are the recent 500 and 750 "Street" models really assembled in India?). But as for those regular Harleys assembled here, its been awhile since I looked into it but I'm recalling....
Keihin and Mikuni carbs- Japan Arai wheels - Japan Showa forks - Japan Nippon Denson electronics/wiring - Japan Virtually all bolts and fasteners - Taiwan
Thirty years ago the rumor was that Gold Wings, by then assembled in the US, incoporated more domestic parts than the average Harley.
Feel free to correct me where I err.
Birdwatcher
Sure, 1- Official Harley Davidson boots - China HOG Leathers - S. Korea Official Harley-Davidson lingerie, t-shirts, bandannas, gloves, raingear, jeans etc etc - various Third World sweatshops.
That's bling and crap. It has nothing to do with the motorcycle.
2- Keihin and Mikuni carbs- Japan
Dude, Harley hasn't put out a big twin with a carburetor in 12 years, 10 on a Sportster. Modern throttlebodys are cast and made in the USA. the components are Delphi as it the ECM.
3-Arai wheels - Japan
WTF are you talking about? Maybe in the 70's mags under AMF Harley spoke wheels are hand made in WI with USA parts (except bearings) Mag wheels are cast in the USA
4- Showa forks - Japan
Yeah? So what? No motorcycle manufacturer makes their own suspension unless you count Honda owning Showa and Kawasaki Heavy Industry's owning KYB. Harley Buells had White Power suspension. Made in USA
5-Nippon Denson electronics/wiring - Japan
Wrong, Nippon Seiki does make a lot of the gauges. Tell me a manufacturer of anything that makes their own gauges. All wiring harness are manufactured in the USA. The components like Molex, AMP and Deutsch are standard in any car or motorcycle.
6- Virtually all bolts and fasteners - Taiwan
Pure BS, all grade 3,5,7 and 8 bolts and hardware are USA made and are of the highest quality in the industry. Better quality than anything I have seen on any Jap bike.
I'll add that the frames are made here with USA steel. Heads,cylinders,crank and trans cases, rocker,cam,trans,primary covers are cast aluminum cast and finished in the USA. Crank,rods transmission gears and shafts, Some are forged here and some are forged in Mexico but they all are machined and finished here in the USA. Sheetmetal-USA ABS Plastic body parts are made in USA.
The % of import parts gets distorted when you have 350 import electrical pins and sockets along with the connectors. When it gets down to the meat and potatos everything of importance is made in the USA by hard working Americans.
I’ve never been a motorcycle person. But, if I decided to become one, I think I would want one of those graceful BMWs that I see loners driving on 2 lane mountain roads. I don’t think I could get much joy riding a Harley on the Interstate like all the people passing through here this time of year.
Whakem, your list is pretty close but not far enough off to merit an argument. Materials Velocity Center in Manchester, Pa. is Willie G's best kept secret. There's a reason it was built.
My wife and I both retired out of York. (big f'ing deal lol)
Harley's are seen mostly as old fart bikes along with the sneering attitude portrayed by so many pathetic Boomers on this very thread. Harley tried to get hip with the V-rod and probably hoped Sons of Anarchy would give them a boost among the Millennial crowd but it ain't really happening.
Low tech, low performance and outdated styling that's hardly changed for decades isn't exactly adaptation to the market. Oh, and don't forget overpriced and overweight.
The younger generation figured out a long time ago that H.O.G. stands for Hairy, Obese, Geriatric!
Interesting sidebar, though: My cousin works for Harley and has been traveling overseas recently to places like Vietnam Nam, India, Thailand, etc. where they are loosening restrictions on bike size. Will be interesting to see if the Harley 'brand' can crossover there or if they'll try to come up with something new (Harley ain't known for innovation and they'd be competing against established brands and the Japanese in their own backyard).
Interesting sidebar, though: My cousin works for Harley and has been traveling overseas recently to places like Vietnam Nam, India, Thailand, etc. where they are loosening restrictions on bike size. Will be interesting to see if the Harley 'brand' can crossover there or if they'll try to come up with something new (Harley ain't known for innovation and they'd be competing against established brands and the Japanese in their own backyard).
After many years with them and based on past behavior I'm going to say that they will fail to extract the full potential of that market but will instead fall back to a hugely downsized image of past glory by running a much smaller but profitable company
I ride. Almost everyday from easter until thanksgiving as long as there is no ice on the road. My preferred ride currently is a Kawasaki Concours. It's perfect for what I do. I doubt I'll ever own a newer harley. -Jake
Interesting sidebar, though: My cousin works for Harley and has been traveling overseas recently to places like Vietnam Nam, India, Thailand, etc. where they are loosening restrictions on bike size. Will be interesting to see if the Harley 'brand' can crossover there or if they'll try to come up with something new (Harley ain't known for innovation and they'd be competing against established brands and the Japanese in their own backyard).
After many years with them and based on past behavior I'm going to say that they will fail to extract the full potential of that market but will instead fall back to a hugely downsized image of past glory by running a much smaller but profitable company
284,
Makes me wonder, though, how they'll be able to pull that off. Baby boomers will start dying off soon and, as others have mentioned, those younger people who do want Harley's are buying secondhand and saving mucho moolah. Isn't Harley unionized, as well? I wonder how that will affect any 'downsizing' plans.
In particular the effect on our Texas Hill Country backroads over the 30 plus years I've been here have been simply unreal. Its been seven years now since I last rode cross-country on a motorcycle (I do bicycles now ), but everywhere I went (including the Tail of the Dragon and Marcus Dairy), same story.
Without providing numbers for Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Ducati, Triumph, etc., it's tough to claim the younger crowd doesn't ride or like bikes.
It could be that a lighter, faster, better handling, quieter andless expensive bikeis what the younger generation is purchasing.
I think that this hits the nail on the head. Millenials don't have the cash to buy expensive MCs many lack jobs, have crushing loan debt, and a whole different set of priorities. HD does not have a very good reputation for reliability. A few months back I read an article that listed the biggest complaint from owners was reliability. My son bought a 2006 Sportster over a year ago. Looked to be in very good shape, well taken care of and not many miles. Spent more time at the dealer repairing glitches then was ridden the first 6 months.
I see lots of millennials riding bikes. Bikes that don't cost $24k and don't leave them stranded or need to be trailered. Yeah, trailered. Can't count the times I've watched Harleys headed to Sturgis or headed south in a trailer.
Dual Sport does seem to be the current "thing" with young riders. The crotch rockets are still popular. Young people don't generally have the time to cruise on a Goldwing, but they still ride. Harley likes to make people think they have a sporty model, but no....
I can't fault someone for wanting something that works and costs less at the same time.
I don't think you know much about the newer Harleys.......................except maybe the price.
MM
You're right. I don't know much about the new ones. I lost interest in even looking at them years ago. I keep hearing that they've improved reliability, but the few I know who have recent models seem to all have failure stories. OTOH, There are literally tons of old Hondas on the road with 100K+ trouble free miles - and they just about all outhandle any Harley you can put them next to.
Harley sells an image. Most young riders....most riders in general....are more interested in the ride than the sound or the look. It ain't just millennials not buying Harleys.
I dunno why anyone would buy s friggin Harley anyway. They tout the American made crisp but it's really just American assembled. And the price you pay is simply for a name
You are a moron. Get your facts straight.
Good luck with that one.
First of all let us dispense with some of the more egregious accessories:
Official Harley Davidson boots - China HOG Leathers - S. Korea Official Harley-Davidson lingerie, t-shirts, bandannas, gloves, raingear, jeans etc etc - various Third World sweatshops.
As to the bikes themselves, Harley is understandably vague on the topic, stating that the 'amount of foreign-sourced parts varies between models and model years' (are the recent 500 and 750 "Street" models really assembled in India?). But as for those regular Harleys assembled here, its been awhile since I looked into it but I'm recalling....
Keihin and Mikuni carbs- Japan Arai wheels - Japan Showa forks - Japan Nippon Denson electronics/wiring - Japan Virtually all bolts and fasteners - Taiwan
Thirty years ago the rumor was that Gold Wings, by then assembled in the US, incoporated more domestic parts than the average Harley.
Feel free to correct me where I err.
Birdwatcher
Sure, 1- Official Harley Davidson boots - China HOG Leathers - S. Korea Official Harley-Davidson lingerie, t-shirts, bandannas, gloves, raingear, jeans etc etc - various Third World sweatshops.
That's bling and crap. It has nothing to do with the motorcycle.
2- Keihin and Mikuni carbs- Japan
Dude, Harley hasn't put out a big twin with a carburetor in 12 years, 10 on a Sportster. Modern throttlebodys are cast and made in the USA. the components are Delphi as it the ECM.
3-Arai wheels - Japan
WTF are you talking about? Maybe in the 70's mags under AMF Harley spoke wheels are hand made in WI with USA parts (except bearings) Mag wheels are cast in the USA
4- Showa forks - Japan
Yeah? So what? No motorcycle manufacturer makes their own suspension unless you count Honda owning Showa and Kawasaki Heavy Industry's owning KYB. Harley Buells had White Power suspension. Made in USA
5-Nippon Denson electronics/wiring - Japan
Wrong, Nippon Seiki does make a lot of the gauges. Tell me a manufacturer of anything that makes their own gauges. All wiring harness are manufactured in the USA. The components like Molex, AMP and Deutsch are standard in any car or motorcycle.
6- Virtually all bolts and fasteners - Taiwan
Pure BS, all grade 3,5,7 and 8 bolts and hardware are USA made and are of the highest quality in the industry. Better quality than anything I have seen on any Jap bike.
I'll add that the frames are made here with USA steel. Heads,cylinders,crank and trans cases, rocker,cam,trans,primary covers are cast aluminum cast and finished in the USA. Crank,rods transmission gears and shafts, Some are forged here and some are forged in Mexico but they all are machined and finished here in the USA. Sheetmetal-USA ABS Plastic body parts are made in USA.
The % of import parts gets distorted when you have 350 import electrical pins and sockets along with the connectors. When it gets down to the meat and potatos everything of importance is made in the USA by hard working Americans.
Excellent informative post, thank you..
There's so much BS in these other posts that it's taken me a while to stop laughing...
I've never cared who rode what bike, as long as they do so responsibly.. The biggest offenders - BY FAR - are the crotchy riders... Talk about TT wannabes...
I wouldn't say they have little interest i see tons of younger folks on bikes. My kids prefer dirt bikes. He wants an adventure bike after that. Id say HD sales are down because they sell a $15K bike for $35k.
Yeah, right...
Quote
I'd have one in a heartbeat if the cost wasn't so nuts.
Buy a 2-3 year old used bike with under 15K on the odometer and save about 10 grand.
Quote
I can buy 40ac of land for $35k. .
LMAO.. Not around here you can't.. You might be able to buy 5-8A for that, tops.....and probably only if it was swamp or forest..
I'm not buying land around there. Anywhere I deer hunt I am but land for that price. And yes, it's a forest.
And sure I can get a used one but this thread isn't about used ones.
Dave's comment on a Corvette has me wondering. The story is police hate Corvettes, red the worst, how about motorcycles? Does riding a cycle make you ripe for a ticket?
I'm not buying land around there. Anywhere I deer hunt I am but land for that price. And yes, it's a forest..
I wonder where it is you hunt that you can find land at that price/acre? For example - a 45A piece east of Minong, WI was listed at $140K (this was about 4-5 years ago).. I asked around at a few real estate places in NW WI and everything ran about $3K/A..
Around here (literally) land brings $4-7K/A - and that's arable bare land.. MN is that much cheaper?? In any case, if you can find 40A for $35K, you better buy up all you can possibly afford, because you should be able to flip it in a year or two for double/triple the price...
Dave's comment on a Corvette has me wondering. The story is police hate Corvettes, red the worst, how about motorcycles? Does riding a cycle make you ripe for a ticket?
I believe it can... I bet the crotchies bring the most attention - because the riders on top always love to push 'em to the max.. At least, around here they do..
I covered the back of a leather jacket with chainmail, and had dozens of riders try to buy it off my back. So I bought a couple of $100.00 leather jackets, covered the rectangular back section only, with chainmail, and sold them for $800.00 each. If it didn't take so long to weave, I would have made it a business.
I dunno why anyone would buy s friggin Harley anyway. They tout the American made crisp but it's really just American assembled. And the price you pay is simply for a name
You are a moron. Get your facts straight.
Good luck with that one.
First of all let us dispense with some of the more egregious accessories:
Official Harley Davidson boots - China HOG Leathers - S. Korea Official Harley-Davidson lingerie, t-shirts, bandannas, gloves, raingear, jeans etc etc - various Third World sweatshops.
As to the bikes themselves, Harley is understandably vague on the topic, stating that the 'amount of foreign-sourced parts varies between models and model years' (are the recent 500 and 750 "Street" models really assembled in India?). But as for those regular Harleys assembled here, its been awhile since I looked into it but I'm recalling....
Keihin and Mikuni carbs- Japan Arai wheels - Japan Showa forks - Japan Nippon Denson electronics/wiring - Japan Virtually all bolts and fasteners - Taiwan
Thirty years ago the rumor was that Gold Wings, by then assembled in the US, incoporated more domestic parts than the average Harley.
Feel free to correct me where I err.
Birdwatcher
Sure, 1- Official Harley Davidson boots - China HOG Leathers - S. Korea Official Harley-Davidson lingerie, t-shirts, bandannas, gloves, raingear, jeans etc etc - various Third World sweatshops.
That's bling and crap. It has nothing to do with the motorcycle.
2- Keihin and Mikuni carbs- Japan
Dude, Harley hasn't put out a big twin with a carburetor in 12 years, 10 on a Sportster. Modern throttlebodys are cast and made in the USA. the components are Delphi as it the ECM.
3-Arai wheels - Japan
WTF are you talking about? Maybe in the 70's mags under AMF Harley spoke wheels are hand made in WI with USA parts (except bearings) Mag wheels are cast in the USA
4- Showa forks - Japan
Yeah? So what? No motorcycle manufacturer makes their own suspension unless you count Honda owning Showa and Kawasaki Heavy Industry's owning KYB. Harley Buells had White Power suspension. Made in USA
5-Nippon Denson electronics/wiring - Japan
Wrong, Nippon Seiki does make a lot of the gauges. Tell me a manufacturer of anything that makes their own gauges. All wiring harness are manufactured in the USA. The components like Molex, AMP and Deutsch are standard in any car or motorcycle.
6- Virtually all bolts and fasteners - Taiwan
Pure BS, all grade 3,5,7 and 8 bolts and hardware are USA made and are of the highest quality in the industry. Better quality than anything I have seen on any Jap bike.
I'll add that the frames are made here with USA steel. Heads,cylinders,crank and trans cases, rocker,cam,trans,primary covers are cast aluminum cast and finished in the USA. Crank,rods transmission gears and shafts, Some are forged here and some are forged in Mexico but they all are machined and finished here in the USA. Sheetmetal-USA ABS Plastic body parts are made in USA.
The % of import parts gets distorted when you have 350 import electrical pins and sockets along with the connectors. When it gets down to the meat and potatos everything of importance is made in the USA by hard working Americans.
When millennials are mentioned not buying Harleys, I think mostly of urban millienals. I do know a few millennials that are bike riders and ATV riders , but don't own a Harley, because they have to finance everything.
As for tickets ...it has been a long ride on bikes . I rode hard and fast and mostly alone, and still do. I cannot ever remember getting a ticket. I have been stopped a few times. About 20 years ago i was ridding a 650 Cagiva... local cop stopped me ....I was well over the limit and very loud with the racing pipes . The cop wanted to look at the bikes and pipes. Pipes clearly had written on them some kinda disclaimer for non street use.
My Thruxton with Barnes???? pipes is very loud. When it comes on the cam you can't even think straight.
Faster and faster until the thrill of speed is overcome by the fear of death. I get scared about 45 MPH now.
The biggest surprise to me is how well they have done over the years. Absolutely nothing about them appeals to me. I can't think of a more obnoxious vehicle on the road. As an American company, I certainly want them to thrive. I just don't like them whatsoever.
I gotta make time to drive the Dragon Tail some day. I can't fathom that it turns much more nor worse than some of the back roads and hollers around here...
I found it considerably over-rated, and the Cop car parked half way down didn't help it neither. What was interesting were the bikes parked at the Tail of the Dragon store, and the fact that the store has a pump out front with ethanol-free gas
What was hairy coming in was the Tullahoma (???) Skyway, a long series of decreasing-radius turns 'Course, ride the Skyway in the other direction and its prob'ly awesome
We have lots of Poker Runs around here on weekends in the summer. Other than a bitch or two on the back of a bike, I've not seen anyone under 45 driving one and I'd say most are in their 50's.
In particular the effect on our Texas Hill Country backroads over the 30 plus years I've been here have been simply unreal. Its been seven years now since I last rode cross-country on a motorcycle (I do bicycles now ), but everywhere I went (including the Tail of the Dragon and Marcus Dairy), same story.
Birdwatcher
Well,....there's a reason for that on the dragon.
Here's another one of those outside of Austin, this time a twofer.....
The guys filming the video reminded me very much of myself in my riding days, moving fast and well-spaced, and then coming up on a couple of slow moving Harleys, 'cept in this case the Harleys may have wrecked on account of pulling over to let the others pass.
I gotta say though for every Harley wreck there's gotta be a hundred sportbikes lost it on the outside of turns, or worse, drifted into the opposite lane while leaned hard over
I ain't happy to see any motorcycle go wheels-up, these folks seemed inept, maybe they were on rented Harleys.
I'm not buying land around there. Anywhere I deer hunt I am but land for that price. And yes, it's a forest..
I wonder where it is you hunt that you can find land at that price/acre? For example - a 45A piece east of Minong, WI was listed at $140K (this was about 4-5 years ago).. I asked around at a few real estate places in NW WI and everything ran about $3K/A..
Around here (literally) land brings $4-7K/A - and that's arable bare land.. MN is that much cheaper?? In any case, if you can find 40A for $35K, you better buy up all you can possibly afford, because you should be able to flip it in a year or two for double/triple the price...
I'm not buying land around there. Anywhere I deer hunt I am but land for that price. And yes, it's a forest..
I wonder where it is you hunt that you can find land at that price/acre? For example - a 45A piece east of Minong, WI was listed at $140K (this was about 4-5 years ago).. I asked around at a few real estate places in NW WI and everything ran about $3K/A..
Around here (literally) land brings $4-7K/A - and that's arable bare land.. MN is that much cheaper?? In any case, if you can find 40A for $35K, you better buy up all you can possibly afford, because you should be able to flip it in a year or two for double/triple the price...
Best wishes...
Land values can vary wildly. My 75 acres is valued at over $5K per yet I just looked at a 30 acre piece 15 miles away on the market for $40K. Both are rough Appalachian mtn land. Back in the day after giving up riding, i chose RE to put my $$'s into.
My 1996 Heritage that I had before I got the 97 Springer. It had some sweet sounding Python pipes. The bear head on the seat is a helmet that I had made from a bear I took with a bow. The buckskins I made from deer hides. I was a young 60 years old back then.
I had a three cylinder Kawasaki 500 in 1969. It was the fastest street bike on the market at the time. 0 to 60 in so many seconds (cant remember how many) It was like being strapped to a rocket. It's a wonder I lived through that period.
Mine was black. Had it in the Philippines. Bought for $800 brand new in Atsugi Japan and flew into Cubi Point aboard a P-3. Good times....oh yeah!
Back on topic, My view as to why Harley stock is down.
2017 Harley introduced the Milwaukee Eight motor in all of the touring motorcycles. The touring line is the largest selling line in Harleys lineup. The M8 motor is nothing but a large EPA motor. In all engineering standards it is a step backwards from the TC 103HO. A lot of people got burned with the short lived Rushmore engine and are leery of getting stuck with a obsolete engine in a few years. The TC 103HO is the best V-Twin engine ever put in a motorcycle. It does have a couple of flaws from the factory. They should address the problems and keep the engine.
Price, Harleys have never been cheap. The Big Twin line is over priced. I was at the local dealer picking up some parts and got into a discussion with a salesman. Parked next to each other were a new Roadster and a Lowrider S. The bikes are very similar and I ask, why is the Lowrider 7k more than the Roadster? From a manufacturing perspective I can not see the Lowrider to cost more than 1k more to make than the Roadster. The Roadster is not a doorbuster model. The electric bike, Every Harley owner I have spoken to is PO'ed that Harley is wasting their profits on this stupid idea. No one in their market gives a rats azz about a electric bike. The people that do like them dont like Harley and would never buy anything that says Harley on it. Harley has gone from being a expensive bike to a overpriced bike.
The market, The market is down for all large cruiser and touring bikes. Indian has made a big splash. This will level out. The only Harley customers that Indian is taking are the Road King and Heritage Softail buyers. The Indian styling only appeals to them. I would never trade the styling of my Road Glide for the 40's look of a Chief. Same thing with a Dyna and a Scout. Indian's customers are coming from the metric cruiser market, not so much Harleys.
How many motorcycle manufacturers make only large street motorcycles? Other than Harley, BMW and Ducati is the only ones with any kind of market share, and it is a very small share. Could Honda stand on it's own if all it sold was 750+ cc street motorcycles? I have a hard time believing that BMW could stay in business if it didn't have the backing of BMW Group.
Younger riders I said it before and will say it again, plenty of younger people are buying Harleys and motorcycles in general. They just are not buying new. Walking around my shop this morning I took inventory of the bikes and the owners that are in my shop for work. I have 16 bikes in here for work to be done or are waiting to be picked up. Of the 16 only 3 are owned by people over 45. Only 2 were bought new by the current owner. None of the bikes are older than '93 and the majority are 06 and up. Last night I had a early 20's kid drop off a bike he just bought for me to get running better. '93 FXR custom paint and clean as a whistle. He paid $4500 for it. I see and talk to a lot of under 40 riders. The young guys like to stop by and BS with the old grey beard. The one thing I always tell them is, The good old days were not that F'ing good. Today is the good days.
Harley has survived the AMF years, the bankruptcy years and the rise to the top again years with 3 year waiting period to get a new bike, they survived the great depression and the more recent great recession. Harley was around long before I was born and will be around long after I am gone.
In particular the effect on our Texas Hill Country backroads over the 30 plus years I've been here have been simply unreal. Its been seven years now since I last rode cross-country on a motorcycle (I do bicycles now ), but everywhere I went (including the Tail of the Dragon and Marcus Dairy), same story.
Birdwatcher
Does this mean you've found the two wheeled transportation from Wi that I do like? If so, please don't hog up the second hand steel frame Trek and Lemonds, or barn find Waterfords. That's my thing. BTW-if you're not already in the national bike challenge, give it a try. It's pretty fun.
Dave's comment on a Corvette has me wondering. The story is police hate Corvettes, red the worst, how about motorcycles? Does riding a cycle make you ripe for a ticket?
Police around here let bikers get away with a bit more than cars and trucks. You have to be bone head stupid to get a ticket. Motorcycle police let you get away with even more. I have had an police escort many times after I have let them pass me up. Several times in the open they get it up to 100mph and me at a safe distance right behind them.
I love Police escorts, they open up the traffic and you just follow in their wake.
I did get popped for 99mph trying to get myself out of a bad situation in an 65 mph zone. I hired a ticket fix it lawyer and beat the ticket.
I work a company that makes one of the more critical internal engine components for H-D.
See my comments below.
I also own 2; a juiced up 2011 Superglide & a bone stock 2012 RKC.
MM
Originally Posted by whackem_stackem
Back on topic, My view as to why Harley stock is down.
2017 Harley introduced the Milwaukee Eight motor in all of the touring motorcycles. The touring line is the largest selling line in Harleys lineup. The M8 motor is nothing but a large EPA motor. In all engineering standards it is a step backwards from the TC 103HO. Maybe, time will tell, for sure it's more complicated & costly to produce. From my own personal perspective, I do not like the looks of it, especially the look of the heads. A lot of people got burned with the short lived Rushmore engine and are leery of getting stuck with a obsolete engine in a few years. The TC 103HO is the best V-Twin engine ever put in a motorcycle. Agreed but that includes the 96 inch engine too..........no real differences. It does have a couple of flaws from the factory. They should address the problems and keep the engine. This biggest issue is the need to meet emission regs by using the closed loop fueling system & the heat it generates from running so lean.
Price, Harleys have never been cheap. The Big Twin line is over priced. Too some degree; but those lines also have all the bells & whistles added too, so you have to take that into account as well as just the engine. I was at the local dealer picking up some parts and got into a discussion with a salesman. Parked next to each other were a new Roadster and a Lowrider S. The bikes are very similar and I ask, why is the Lowrider 7k more than the Roadster? Actually the list price is only $6200 difference & of that, some $1,600 is made up of the fact that the Low Rider S has ABS, cruise control & a security system as standard plus a PREMIUM110 CI Screamin' Eagle CVO Engine & a 6 speed transmission so the Low Rider S vs Roadster comparison is not a very good comparison. Comparing a plain Low Rider to a Roadster is only a $3,400 difference most of which is the TC 103 & a 6-speed trans vs a 1200 engine & a 5-speed trans is a much closer & truer comparison. From a manufacturing perspective I can not see the Lowrider to cost more than 1k more to make than the Roadster. Is the TC 103 & the 6-speed trans worth $3,400...................I'd surely say so. The Roadster is not a doorbuster model. The electric bike, Every Harley owner I have spoken to is PO'ed that Harley is wasting their profits on this stupid idea. I don't think they are wasting as much money as you might think...................this project is not getting much attention & it's going nowhere & Harley knows it. It's all for show. No one in their market gives a rats azz about a electric bike. The people that do like them dont like Harley and would never buy anything that says Harley on it. Harley has gone from being a expensive bike to a overpriced bike. Yes, for sure with some models, but there are plenty of buyers for the high end versions, ie CVO's.
The market, The market is down for all large cruiser and touring bikes. They overall market may be down, but those are still & will continue to be, Harley's biggest sellers, period. Indian has made a big splash. BS More like a small drip......................they don't have a 2% market share. This will level out. The only Harley customers that Indian is taking are the Road King and Heritage Softail buyers. The Indian styling only appeals to them. I would never trade the styling of my Road Glide for the 40's look of a Chief. Same thing with a Dyna and a Scout. Indian's customers are coming from the metric cruiser market, not so much Harleys. If anyone thinks that Harley don't handle well, try an Indian & you'll find out what bad handling really is; try walking one around in a circle in a parking lot too & see how well you like it.
How many motorcycle manufacturers make only large street motorcycles? Other than Harley, BMW and Ducati is the only ones with any kind of market share, and it is a very small share. Could Honda stand on it's own if all it sold was 750+ cc street motorcycles? I have a hard time believing that BMW could stay in business if it didn't have the backing of BMW Group. Go to Europe & you'll be able to figure out how BMW stays in business; better yet ride one of their larger street bikes down the highway at 110 mph.
Younger riders I said it before and will say it again, plenty of younger people are buying Harleys and motorcycles in general. They just are not buying new. Walking around my shop this morning I took inventory of the bikes and the owners that are in my shop for work. I have 16 bikes in here for work to be done or are waiting to be picked up. Of the 16 only 3 are owned by people over 45. Only 2 were bought new by the current owner. None of the bikes are older than '93 and the majority are 06 and up. Last night I had a early 20's kid drop off a bike he just bought for me to get running better. '93 FXR custom paint and clean as a whistle. He paid $4500 for it. Many of the younger riders simply can't afford a Harley at a younger age even if they wanted one; many will move up as they are better able to afford more, & as riding habits & preferences change. I see and talk to a lot of under 40 riders. The young guys like to stop by and BS with the old grey beard. The one thing I always tell them is, The good old days were not that F'ing good. Today is the good days.
Harley has survived the AMF years, the bankruptcy years and the rise to the top again years with 3 year waiting period to get a new bike, they survived the great depression and the more recent great recession. Harley was around long before I was born and will be around long after I am gone. Yes, they will; sales may have peaked, I really don't know, but Harley will adjust & survive.
My 2 young adult kids want boats and sport utility ATV's (rzr types)
I'm sure they'd both take a Harley if you gave them one, but they are wayyyyy down the list. Far below trucks, cars, ATV's, dirt bikes, jet ski's, fishing boats, guns, vacations etc.
The old story about basic economics, and business is, there were once many companies making buggy whips. If the government would have propped them all up, today we would have a lot of whips in warehouses, and few buyers. Harley Davison will need to run their business as best they can.
Harley Davison will need to run their business as best they can.
Harley will adjust as needed; the real problem is Wall Street & the banks who expect the growth curve to never flatten out or, God forbid, ever take a downward dip.
So their stock & company ratings will be hurt by that view & make investors (stock holders) nervous to continue to invest.
The new 107 doesn't impress me one bit... I heard one start up at a dealership north of me... Ick.. (it was on a Road King).. I'll take my 103 any time of the day and twice on Sunday..
I'll have over 30,000 miles on this one by the time the snow falls; not bad for a bit over 3 years of ownership.. And Sturgis is only 2+ weeks away... YEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAA!!
I work a company that makes one of the more critical internal engine components for H-D.
See my comments below.
I also own 2; a juiced up 2011 Superglide & a 2012 RKC.
MM
Originally Posted by whackem_stackem
Back on topic, My view as to why Harley stock is down.
2017 Harley introduced the Milwaukee Eight motor in all of the touring motorcycles. The touring line is the largest selling line in Harleys lineup. The M8 motor is nothing but a large EPA motor. In all engineering standards it is a step backwards from the TC 103HO. Maybe, time will tell, for sure it's more complicated & costly to produce. From my own personal perspective, I do not like the looks of it, especially the look of the heads. A lot of people got burned with the short lived Rushmore engine and are leery of getting stuck with a obsolete engine in a few years. The TC 103HO is the best V-Twin engine ever put in a motorcycle. Agreed but that includes the 96 inch engine too..........no real differences. It does have a couple of flaws from the factory. They should address the problems and keep the engine. This biggest issue is the need to meet emission regs by using the closed loop fueling system & the heat it generates from running so lean.
Price, Harleys have never been cheap. The Big Twin line is over priced. Too some degree; but those lines also have all the bells & whistles added too, so you have to take that into account as well as just the engine. I was at the local dealer picking up some parts and got into a discussion with a salesman. Parked next to each other were a new Roadster and a Lowrider S. The bikes are very similar and I ask, why is the Lowrider 7k more than the Roadster? Actually the list price is only $6200 difference & of that, some $1,600 is made up of the fact that the Low Rider S has ABS, cruise control & a security system as standard plus a PREMIUM110 CI Screamin' Eagle CVO Engine & a 6 speed transmission so the Low Rider S vs Roadster comparison is not a very good comparison. Comparing a plain Low Rider to a Roadster is only a $3,400 difference most of which is the TC 103 & a 6-speed trans vs a 1200 engine & a 5-speed trans is a much closer & truer comparison. From a manufacturing perspective I can not see the Lowrider to cost more than 1k more to make than the Roadster. Is the TC 103 & the 6-speed trans worth $3,400...................I'd surely say so. You are going off a perceived value. Not manufacturing cost. A cylinder does not cost much different to manufacture if it is 3.5",3.875 or 4". Same with casting the cylinder heads connecting rods and flywheel assembly. XL has four gear driven cams that need to be sized properly instead of two chain driven cams. Lifters,rocker arms and rocker shafts are the same. XL oil pump costs much more than a TC punp. A lot of the transmission parts are the same, just add two more gears and a shift fork. The big twin powertrain does not cost much more to manufacture than a XL. The 110 engine does not cost Harley any substantial amount to manufacture than a 103.
The Roadster is not a doorbuster model. The electric bike, Every Harley owner I have spoken to is PO'ed that Harley is wasting their profits on this stupid idea. I don't think they are wasting as much money as you might think...................this project is not getting much attention & it's going nowhere & Harley knows it. It's all for show. You may be right but this is a preconceived notion that owners feel, bad PR No one in their market gives a rats azz about a electric bike. The people that do like them dont like Harley and would never buy anything that says Harley on it. Harley has gone from being a expensive bike to a overpriced bike. Yes, for sure with some models, but there are plenty of buyers for the high end versions, ie CVO's.
The market, The market is down for all large cruiser and touring bikes. They overall market may be down, but those are still & will continue to be, Harley's biggest sellers, period. Indian has made a big splash. BS More like a small drip......................they don't have a 2% market share.A big new Indian dealer opened up this spring about 3 miles from my shop. The Harley dealer is a couple miles the other way. I can tell you first hand Indian is moving bikes out of the new fancy dealers. More dealers are opening around the country. Indian took a different approach that Victory. Polaris used their established "Polaris" dealers to sell and service their bikes. Indian is following Harleys lead and having "boutique" dealerships. This can cause a market downturn in stock prices. People can think they are going to be big. This will level out. The only Harley customers that Indian is taking are the Road King and Heritage Softail buyers. The Indian styling only appeals to them. I would never trade the styling of my Road Glide for the 40's look of a Chief. Same thing with a Dyna and a Scout. Indian's customers are coming from the metric cruiser market, not so much Harleys. If anyone thinks that Harley don't handle well, try an Indian & you'll find out what bad handling really is; try walking one around in a circle in a parking lot too & see how well you like it.
How many motorcycle manufacturers make only large street motorcycles? Other than Harley, BMW and Ducati is the only ones with any kind of market share, and it is a very small share. Could Honda stand on it's own if all it sold was 750+ cc street motorcycles? I have a hard time believing that BMW could stay in business if it didn't have the backing of BMW Group. Go to Europe & you'll be able to figure out how BMW stays in business; better yet ride one of their larger street bikes down the highway at 110 mph.Dont get me wrong. BMW does make a good bike but could they stay in business without the financial and most impotently the engineering backing they have? I would love to take my Roadglide down the autobahn and run it 110 all day, I run 100 all the way across S Dakota with friends on their Beemers they got nothing on my Glide.
Younger riders I said it before and will say it again, plenty of younger people are buying Harleys and motorcycles in general. They just are not buying new. Walking around my shop this morning I took inventory of the bikes and the owners that are in my shop for work. I have 16 bikes in here for work to be done or are waiting to be picked up. Of the 16 only 3 are owned by people over 45. Only 2 were bought new by the current owner. None of the bikes are older than '93 and the majority are 06 and up. Last night I had a early 20's kid drop off a bike he just bought for me to get running better. '93 FXR custom paint and clean as a whistle. He paid $4500 for it. Many of the younger riders simply can't afford a Harley at a younger age even if they wanted one; many will move up as they are better able to afford more, & as riding habits & preferences change. I see and talk to a lot of under 40 riders. The young guys like to stop by and BS with the old grey beard. The one thing I always tell them is, The good old days were not that F'ing good. Today is the good days.
Harley has survived the AMF years, the bankruptcy years and the rise to the top again years with 3 year waiting period to get a new bike, they survived the great depression and the more recent great recession. Harley was around long before I was born and will be around long after I am gone. Yes, they will; sales may have peaked, I really don't know, but Harley will adjust & survive.
The new 107 doesn't impress me one bit... I heard one start up at a dealership north of me... Ick.. (it was on a Road King).. I'll take my 103 any time of the day and twice on Sunday..
I'll have over 30,000 miles on this one by the time the snow falls; not bad for a bit over 3 years of ownership.. And Sturgis is only 2+ weeks away... YEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAA!!
Just a tip, When you get back have your cam chain tensioner pads checked. I have been seeing a lot of them wearing out or getting real thin at the 35-40k mark. They are not like the old 88 tensioner and are much easier to replace and much cheaper. S&S Cycle makes a high performance pad that is thicker and more durable. They will last much longer. I am getting reports of 50k out of them running big lift cams and increased spring pressure. I drop them in every cam chest I have open. oh, run Amsoil 20-50. It is the best I have found to decrease engine temps and wear on engine parts. It honestly knocked 20 deg oil temp in my Glide over Harley Syn3
What I also meant about the BMW's in Europe is that they sell a gazillion of them over there so it's likely a pretty justifiable business on it's own; what they sell here pales by comparison.
You are right about the cam adjusters.........didn't know about the S&S ones, so that's a good tip (S&S is a big customer for us too). I thought the general design life of the H-D ones was supposed to be around 25-30K?, so 35-40 would surely be pushing it.
You are also 100% right about the Amsoil & temps..........same is true for Mobil 1 V-Twin. Harley Syn3 is pure schitt, not full synthetic either & I would not run it in my bikes unless it was all that was available.
I'm running mobil 1 V twin and my EVO runs pretty quiet at temp with it. but everybody that I know that has ran both amsoil and mobil v twin say they like Amsoil better. One guy told me he liked royal purple too.
If so, please don't hog up the second hand steel frame Trek and Lemonds, or barn find Waterfords. That's my thing. BTW-if you're not already in the national bike challenge, give it a try. It's pretty fun.
Looked at the national bike challenge website, ya gotta create an account and log in for a 30-day free trial? WTF?
I'm afraid I ain't one of the spandex and helmet crowd, tho I ride often enough, mostly while I still can to push back the day when I can't.
If I were looking for custom frames I do have a thing for Bob Jacksons out of Leeds, UK, and I regret not stopping in when I was cycling over there last summer.
Most recently I'm a tad giddy about a late '80's Specialized Rock Hopper I picked up for not much at all in a pawn shop last week, hardly ridden at all since it rolled out of the store 30 years ago and still all original. Rigid mountain bikes of that era are valued for their quality steel frames of course, already it wears a luggage rack and a good set of 36 spoke wheels I had on hand, waiting on a Chris King headset and bottom bracket. Its gonna be my go-to urban commuter, people set 'em up as "adventure tourers" too.
I am happy to see Greg Lemond is apparently back in the business, having been run out of his Trek contract way back when by that lying prick Greg Armstrong.
A KLR ain't really a dirt bike, more like a dirt road bike, unless you go slow and methodical.
That being said, its a $6,000 bike that will haul you in comfort 1,000 miles a day on the superslab, pulling 80 all day long (been there done that, repeatedly). It also makes an awesome urban commuter; light, agile, reasonably quick, and able to handle crappy road surfaces, plus in slow traffic the cooling fan kicks in over the radiator and it doesn't run hot.
Most fun of all though, get on a winding motorcycle road and run with the fast boys With only thirty horses at the back wheel ya gotta hit every shift, line and braking point just right, but done right it can be done. Leaned hard over and flogged the first thing that's gonna touch down is the handlebar (if that happens you've pushed it too hard ) Don't bother looking at the tach, that big thumper will tell you all you need to know.
I'm running mobil 1 V twin and my EVO runs pretty quiet at temp with it. but everybody that I know that has ran both amsoil and mobil v twin say they like Amsoil better. One guy told me he liked royal purple too.
For two seasons our pro-stock bike was sponsored by Royal Purple. I ran it in two test sessions and wasn't happy but ran it anyway. First race it was puffing bad in the finial and losing power. Got it back to the shop and did a tear down. The piston skirts were galled up, titanium valve stems galled. The motor looked like it made a pass or two with no oil pressure. The data logger showed 60 psi all the way down the track on all runs. A 160 ci pro-stock motor couldn't make 8 passes (2 miles) with that crap in it. I went back to buying our own oil (Red Line) and using it. We took their free oil (and sold it in the pits to competitors) and cashed the travel and contingency checks but I never put that stuff in my race motor again. The only time we ever had a oiling problem again was when the oil pump drive gear broke during the burn out. Backing up the bike I could see the guage needle pegged at zero. Staged the bike and made the pass with no oil pressure. Tore the motor down at the shop and the pistons, valves and guided looked better than the ones from the Royal Purple motor that ran with full pressure. I have taken apart TC-88 motors that had RP ran through it for a few years. They were the dirtiest engines I have seen. Black/purple goo everywhere. I'll take just a good conventional oil over it any day.
Moble 1 is good oil. My problem with it is they will not sell to me unless I buy a truck load at a time and the general availability of it. The V-Twin oil can be hard to find. I advise my customers to use a good oil that they can get readily. If it to much of a hassle to find the oil people will push the limits and not change it enough. Amsoil is available at most auto parts store and most all aftermarket shops. Heck, call your local dealer and he will drop a case off at your house.
I went to the annual open House at the Harley dealership last month and it was packed with fat old bikers (like me). I'm planning one last road trip in August then my 97 Heritage Springer is going up for sale. At 81 years old I think it's time.
This is the same type of bike I learned to ride. Same year even. 1973 Harley Davidson TX-125. Wish I still had it, it was rare when I owned one, rather now. Took me 3 years to rebuild due to problems getting parts. This one is listed @2500.00 I think.
L learned to ride on a '48 EL, hand shift foot clutch. Not every lesson but partially, It was my brothers. He did things like ride a W from Denver to LA in November, and vice versa, run flat out from here to the springs at all of 75 or 80 on the old 2 lane. That said, you could get seriously hurt on one of those things in traffic. I think the decline in he men came with electric starters.
As for HD being put out of business, they will do it themselves by not adapting to the market. Why did they scrdap Buell? There are a lot of us who can see past the end of the 4 lane pavement so want something Like the KLR, V strom, or what have you.
Another thing to consider is the expendable income of younger people.
A KLR ain't really a dirt bike, more like a dirt road bike, unless you go slow and methodical.
That being said, its a $6,000 bike that will haul you in comfort 1,000 miles a day on the superslab, pulling 80 all day long (been there done that, repeatedly). It also makes an awesome urban commuter; light, agile, reasonably quick, and able to handle crappy road surfaces, plus in slow traffic the cooling fan kicks in over the radiator and it doesn't run hot.
Most fun of all though, get on a winding motorcycle road and run with the fast boys With only thirty horses at the back wheel ya gotta hit every shift, line and braking point just right, but done right it can be done. Leaned hard over and flogged the first thing that's gonna touch down is the handlebar (if that happens you've pushed it too hard ) Don't bother looking at the tach, that big thumper will tell you all you need to know.
All of that and they run forever
I give 'em two thumbs up.
Birdwatcher
My bike before the KLR was a Triumph thunderbird, loved to look at it but the ride sucked. I used to watch all those foreigners fly into anchorage, rent KLR's and drive the haul road up and back. They all looked happy and got bit by the adventure bike bug. I use mine for communiting, rides to the beach or lunch with my wife, but I really love getting of fire/forest service roads and finding new hunting/fishing spots. Great relief from a week of mental anguish at work.
I gotta make time to drive the Dragon Tail some day. I can't fathom that it turns much more nor worse than some of the back roads and hollers around here...
I found it considerably over-rated, and the Cop car parked half way down didn't help it neither. What was interesting were the bikes parked at the Tail of the Dragon store, and the fact that the store has a pump out front with ethanol-free gas
What was hairy coming in was the Tullahoma (???) Skyway, a long series of decreasing-radius turns 'Course, ride the Skyway in the other direction and its prob'ly awesome
Cherohala Skyway. Connects the Cherokee and Nantahala national forests. It's very different from the Dragon for sure. It's a much higher speed road. Highway 28 from Lauada NC to Stiles is just silly fun. Smooter transitions than the Dragon, slower than the Cherohala. Right in the same area. The last time I rode the Dragon, I did it on a 650 CC scooter (Burgman) I had a blast carving through the hordes of Harleys.
Are you running straight pipes to the fish tails? baffles? maybe there's a muffler I can't see under the bag.
Fish tail straight pipes, no baffles you can see the fin's on the pipes sticking out just past the bags.
That's what I ran on mine for a while before I put the Thunderheader on. The TH woke up all the stuff I'd done to the ignition, fuel feed, carb, and cam.
Just love how ANY thread with the words "Harley Davidson" in them turn into a Harley bashing. Truth is, most of the young riders I know love my bike. They just can't afford one. I tell them if they really want a Harley to get a used EVO.
My experience is similar to Redneck's. I've owned at least one bike from all the Jap manufacturers and loved every one of them. Funny thing is, I never hear Harley riders bashing other manufacturers' bikes. Can't say that about everybody else.. or non-riders that have never even owned any bike.
My bike will be 21 years old Thanksgiving weekend. I'm the original owner. I see Dave's and Longhunter_1's bikes still going strong, too. Same bike as mine. Can't say the same about their contemporaries from other manufacturers.
Rage on though, haters. It's entertaining as phugk.
I just can't believe people under the age of 30 aren't buying $30K motorcycles.
What gives?
Dave
Exactly. It's like blaming the Boomers for not buying bikes 30yrs earlier.
H-D enjoyed a huge upswing in sales because the Boomers finally retired, and had the money and time to go play. It'll happen again with the next generation assuming JellO's party doesn't fuqk things so badly that Boomer-type retirements aren't possible in the future
If I drove home a new red Corvette it wouldn't be because of my mid-life crisis, it'd be because it took until mid-life to afford the damn thing.
H-D enjoyed a huge upswing in sales because the Boomers finally retired, and had the money and time to go play. It'll happen again with the next generation
I got into re-enacting rather late in life, sorta like the Harley-boom demographic.
I call my generation the Jeremiah Johnson demographic. We are the people who saw that movie and were blown away by it, it spawned a whole movement. Well, we are passing, 'round here at least participation is dwindling year by year and most all of those still turning out are well gone towards geriatric.
Motorcycles? We are also the Easy Rider generation of course. I guess one had to be there to witness how significant that movie was in popular culture. Like lots of youths my brothers and I had the Peter Fonda Captain America poster on the wall. Outlaw Bikers were our heroes (prob'ly because we didn't know any, one of us DID go that route, it weren't pretty) How many times over the decades since has one heard "Born to be Wild" at most any Harley event?
I dunno what the epochal cultural icons are for the Millenials. Hard to think of any.
Funny thing is, I never hear Harley riders bashing other manufacturers' bikes.
Perhaps you have been stone-deaf for many years, are you running straight pipes?
Edited to say: Um...... that was definitely not my experience. Perhaps I am old-school.
AGREED! I hear nothing from Harley riders about other bikes, except that they suck, rice-burners, jap-sickles, crotch-rocket, wanna-be Harley, doesn't look or sound like a REAL bike, might be ok for some people, , must be slumming, bull-picky. I was a motorcycle courier for several years in California, on a Interceptor and don't recall ANY favorable comments from Harley riders, but quite a few negative ones.
The new 107 doesn't impress me one bit... I heard one start up at a dealership north of me... Ick.. (it was on a Road King).. I'll take my 103 any time of the day and twice on Sunday..
I'll have over 30,000 miles on this one by the time the snow falls; not bad for a bit over 3 years of ownership.. And Sturgis is only 2+ weeks away... YEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAA!!
Just a tip, When you get back have your cam chain tensioner pads checked. I have been seeing a lot of them wearing out or getting real thin at the 35-40k mark. They are not like the old 88 tensioner and are much easier to replace and much cheaper. S&S Cycle makes a high performance pad that is thicker and more durable. They will last much longer. I am getting reports of 50k out of them running big lift cams and increased spring pressure. I drop them in every cam chest I have open. oh, run Amsoil 20-50. It is the best I have found to decrease engine temps and wear on engine parts. It honestly knocked 20 deg oil temp in my Glide over Harley Syn3
The head service guy at Rice Lake HD told me the same thing - at the 25K service he said when I bring it in at 30K he's going to change the tensioner pads and the compensator (IIRC - I know rifles, not HD internals.. )
Thanks for tip on Amsoil. I've been running only HD Syn3 in both bikes. For some reason I have not trusted Amsoil in anything.. If you say it's good stuff - I'll be a believer.. Thank you.
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
The last time I rode the Dragon, I did it on a 650 CC scooter (Burgman) I had a blast carving through the hordes of Harleys.
Last time I rode the Dragon I came upon a group of young riders at a sharp curve, standing next to their parked crotchies and waving at us, warning about a crash.. One of their TT-wannabe brothers 'carved his way' right into a ditch.. They were waiting for the ambulance.. I - and my HD - motored on...
Last time I rode the Dragon I came upon a group of young riders at a sharp curve, standing next to their parked crotchies and waving at us, warning about a crash.. One of their TT-wannabe brothers 'carved his way' right into a ditch..
Major design flaw I see in sportbikes is ya can't fit a woman on the back. I dunno about you guys, but what is the point of a motorcycle that can't fit a woman on the back?
Last time I rode the Dragon I came upon a group of young riders at a sharp curve, standing next to their parked crotchies and waving at us, warning about a crash.. One of their TT-wannabe brothers 'carved his way' right into a ditch..
Major design flaw I see in sportbikes is ya can't fit a woman on the back. I dunno about you guys, but what is the point of a motorcycle that can't fit a woman on the back?
Exactly. It's like blaming the Boomers for not buying bikes 30yrs earlier.
H-D enjoyed a huge upswing in sales because the Boomers finally retired, and had the money and time to go play. It'll happen again with the next generation assuming JellO's party doesn't fuqk things so badly that Boomer-type retirements aren't possible in the future
If I drove home a new red Corvette it wouldn't be because of my mid-life crisis, it'd be because it took until mid-life to afford the damn thing.
Yep.
And don't be surprised if all these Challenger SRT type sales start dropping off too.
Boomers are dropping left and right. Sales will too.
I also expect to see a whole lot of nice used guns for sale in the next decade as well. All those Gen X'ers that don't know WTF they are. Cha-ching!
Harley riders have made comments about my Thruxton, Ducati, Moto Guzzis, etc.
A couple years ago on the new California Moto, I was on 53 in Northern , Wi. on my way to Aerostich in Duluth. Came up on 3 Harleys headed north also . I slid around them going about 70. The Harleys kept twisting .... I kept twisting . 53 is a nice new 4 lane . Clear day ...open road...I got a little Carried away ( stupid). I parked in the back of Aerostich and went in. About a day later the Harley riders showed up.
One of them asked me " what are you riding Grampa"?
I said the Guzzi that I passed you on is parked out back.....can I buy you guys lunch?
Major design flaw I see in sportbikes is ya can't fit a woman on the back. I dunno about you guys, but what is the point of a motorcycle that can't fit a woman on the back?
Harley riders have made comments about my Thruxton, Ducati, Moto Guzzis, etc.
A couple years ago on the new California Moto, I was on 53 in Northern , Wi. on my way to Aerostich in Duluth. Came up on 3 Harleys headed north also . I slid around them going about 70. The Harleys kept twisting .... I kept twisting . 53 is a nice new 4 lane . Clear day ...open road...I got a little Carried away ( stupid). I parked in the back of Aerostich and went in. About a day later the Harley riders showed up.
One of them asked me " what are you riding Grampa"?
I said the Guzzi that I passed you on is parked out back.....can I buy you guys lunch?
We all headed for the tall stool.
Aerostitch has "Guzzi" written all over it...
You got lucky on 53.. There's 3 state boys that cruise that stretch daily.. They see you being 'carried away' they'll be carryin' YOU away in the back seat - headin' for the WI S.P. headquarters in Spooner.. Next time I go by that headquarters I'll take a gander over there and see if there's a Guzzi hangin' from a tow-truck's boom..
If so, I'll stop in with condolences, then buy ya a brewski when you make bail..
Exactly. It's like blaming the Boomers for not buying bikes 30yrs earlier.
H-D enjoyed a huge upswing in sales because the Boomers finally retired, and had the money and time to go play. It'll happen again with the next generation assuming JellO's party doesn't fuqk things so badly that Boomer-type retirements aren't possible in the future
If I drove home a new red Corvette it wouldn't be because of my mid-life crisis, it'd be because it took until mid-life to afford the damn thing.
Yep.
And don't be surprised if all these Challenger SRT type sales start dropping off too.
Boomers are dropping left and right. Sales will too.
I also expect to see a whole lot of nice used guns for sale in the next decade as well. All those Gen X'ers that don't know WTF they are. Cha-ching!
Dave
slightly different topic but as a Gen-X'er, the last year - the boomers retiring has emptied out my office building. Lots of opportunities for the 40-early 50's people who still have at least a decade with the company.
I would assume that is happening all over the country now.
Dave's comment on a Corvette has me wondering. The story is police hate Corvettes, red the worst, how about motorcycles? Does riding a cycle make you ripe for a ticket?
I never got a ticket on a bike that I actually earned - except once. That time, after talking bikes for a half hour with the trooper who clocked me at 119 (I was just slowing down), he wrote me a cheap ticket for 69mph (55 speed limit days, if you're old enough to know what that means).
Got pulled over and warned many times for doing wheelies and other more mundane speeding type things. But got tickets that were pure BS from a couple cops being an ass. One I'll never forget was the one I got for "basic rule" (exceeding safe speed for conditions) going slightly under the speed limit on an empty road in the rain. Barney was beside himself over how could I possibly keep the front wheel in contact with the pavement.
As for crotch rockets in the dirt - one can push too far with anything. Far too many unskilled riders trying to get away with relying on a hardware solution for a software problem.
Last time I rode the Dragon I came upon a group of young riders at a sharp curve, standing next to their parked crotchies and waving at us, warning about a crash.. One of their TT-wannabe brothers 'carved his way' right into a ditch..
Major design flaw I see in sportbikes is ya can't fit a woman on the back. I dunno about you guys, but what is the point of a motorcycle that can't fit a woman on the back?
Got THAT right.... And hot babes love HDs...
You see WAY more hot babes on the back of sport bikes/crotch rockets than you do HD's. lol
I'm not buying land around there. Anywhere I deer hunt I am but land for that price. And yes, it's a forest..
I wonder where it is you hunt that you can find land at that price/acre? For example - a 45A piece east of Minong, WI was listed at $140K (this was about 4-5 years ago).. I asked around at a few real estate places in NW WI and everything ran about $3K/A..
Around here (literally) land brings $4-7K/A - and that's arable bare land.. MN is that much cheaper?? In any case, if you can find 40A for $35K, you better buy up all you can possibly afford, because you should be able to flip it in a year or two for double/triple the price...
Last time I rode the Dragon I came upon a group of young riders at a sharp curve, standing next to their parked crotchies and waving at us, warning about a crash.. One of their TT-wannabe brothers 'carved his way' right into a ditch..
Major design flaw I see in sportbikes is ya can't fit a woman on the back. I dunno about you guys, but what is the point of a motorcycle that can't fit a woman on the back?
You've obviously never trailed a lady on a motorcycle before. The first thing they ask is "Am I gonna fall off?".
No problem on my Harley. Big leather seat with a backrest bolted on.
Last time I rode the Dragon I came upon a group of young riders at a sharp curve, standing next to their parked crotchies and waving at us, warning about a crash.. One of their TT-wannabe brothers 'carved his way' right into a ditch..
Major design flaw I see in sportbikes is ya can't fit a woman on the back. I dunno about you guys, but what is the point of a motorcycle that can't fit a woman on the back?
Got THAT right.... And hot babes love HDs...
You see WAY more hot babes on the back of sport bikes/crotch rockets than you do HD's. lol
Harley riders have made comments about my Thruxton, Ducati, Moto Guzzis, etc.
A couple years ago on the new California Moto, I was on 53 in Northern , Wi. on my way to Aerostich in Duluth. Came up on 3 Harleys headed north also . I slid around them going about 70. The Harleys kept twisting .... I kept twisting . 53 is a nice new 4 lane . Clear day ...open road...I got a little Carried away ( stupid). I parked in the back of Aerostich and went in. About a day later the Harley riders showed up.
One of them asked me " what are you riding Grampa"?
I said the Guzzi that I passed you on is parked out back.....can I buy you guys lunch?
We all headed for the tall stool.
Aerostitch has "Guzzi" written all over it...
You got lucky on 53.. There's 3 state boys that cruise that stretch daily.. They see you being 'carried away' they'll be carryin' YOU away in the back seat - headin' for the WI S.P. headquarters in Spooner.. Next time I go by that headquarters I'll take a gander over there and see if there's a Guzzi hangin' from a tow-truck's boom..
If so, I'll stop in with condolences, then buy ya a brewski when you make bail..
I used to love heading to Duluth from Wausau. I'd hit 53, and rock about 80 MPH all the way up to Hwy2. Hardly see a car. Having 3 Smokies patrol that would seriously slow my roll!
I'm not buying land around there. Anywhere I deer hunt I am but land for that price. And yes, it's a forest..
I wonder where it is you hunt that you can find land at that price/acre? For example - a 45A piece east of Minong, WI was listed at $140K (this was about 4-5 years ago).. I asked around at a few real estate places in NW WI and everything ran about $3K/A..
Around here (literally) land brings $4-7K/A - and that's arable bare land.. MN is that much cheaper?? In any case, if you can find 40A for $35K, you better buy up all you can possibly afford, because you should be able to flip it in a year or two for double/triple the price...
hmm. Me either. They may have taken them down...it was craigslist ads for land.
Craigslist? Oh, bwahahahahahahaha... Oh, I know there's some legit stuff on that site, but for the most part it's a haven for every scam artist ever born...
Originally Posted by local_dirt
Originally Posted by tzone
Originally Posted by Redneck
Originally Posted by Birdwatcher
Quote
Last time I rode the Dragon I came upon a group of young riders at a sharp curve, standing next to their parked crotchies and waving at us, warning about a crash.. One of their TT-wannabe brothers 'carved his way' right into a ditch..
Major design flaw I see in sportbikes is ya can't fit a woman on the back. I dunno about you guys, but what is the point of a motorcycle that can't fit a woman on the back?
Got THAT right.... And hot babes love HDs...
You see WAY more hot babes on the back of sport bikes/crotch rockets than you do HD's. lol
Where are you ridin? China? Hilarious.
Beat me to it... But - in all fairness - some of the most beautiful women I've ever seen were in Hong Kong and/or Taiwan..
May catch you.........can't catch a Guzzi !!!!!!!!!!!
Guzzi's don't outrun radios and helicopters..
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Yeah yeah," Aerostich has Guzzi written all over it "
You won't find any Pakistani leather or Chinky Boots or HD "T" shirts there.
'Course not - Aerostitch stuff is first-class... But then you better have a "Platinum Card" to buy it... And that "Pakistani" leather you ridicule is a bit harsh - since by far the vast majority of bike leathers today are NOT made in the good ole' USA but still end up being some very good wearable items.. My main Sturgis vest is nearly 30 years old and is barely 'broken in'..
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Just rider products for performance Mosickles
Nah - Aerostitch stuff's for managers and/or CEOs that ride to work in a business suit and don't wanna get a bug on it.. Guzzi riders HATE to get dirty.. Hehehehee..
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I think I bought you lunch in duluth....
Doubtful... I let TT-wannabes fly on past for the state patrol to make a visit...
Last time I rode the Dragon I came upon a group of young riders at a sharp curve, standing next to their parked crotchies and waving at us, warning about a crash.. One of their TT-wannabe brothers 'carved his way' right into a ditch..
Major design flaw I see in sportbikes is ya can't fit a woman on the back. I dunno about you guys, but what is the point of a motorcycle that can't fit a woman on the back?
Got THAT right.... And hot babes love HDs...
You see WAY more hot babes on the back of sport bikes/crotch rockets than you do HD's. lol
Where are you ridin? China? Hilarious.
Pretty rare to see anything I would describe as "hot" on the back of a Harley. Now - I HAVE seen a few of them actually riding one on their own - but that's rare too. Tzone is right about this.
As for "fitting a woman on the back".....My definition of "hot" doesn't require that big seat with a backrest.
Pretty rare to see anything I would describe as "hot" on the back of a Harley. Now - I HAVE seen a few of them actually riding one on their own - but that's rare too. Tzone is right about this.
It depends more on what part of the country one is residing at, IMHO...
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As for "fitting a woman on the back".....My definition of "hot" doesn't require that big seat with a backrest.
Maybe 'your' definition doesn't require that, but if you want HER to be comfy and keep riding with ya, it would behoove you to add that 'big seat and a backrest'... If nothing else, just for safety's sake..
Been plenty dirty, still get plenty dirty. If you ride long distance you are gonna git a little dirty , ....thats what saloons are for.... to wash the dust down.
Aerostich is for riders. Managers and CEOs buy HD sometimes because , well I guess they want be a carefree, open road big 2 wheeler type.
Pretty rare to see anything I would describe as "hot" on the back of a Harley. Now - I HAVE seen a few of them actually riding one on their own - but that's rare too. Tzone is right about this.
It depends more on what part of the country one is residing at, IMHO...
Quote
As for "fitting a woman on the back".....My definition of "hot" doesn't require that big seat with a backrest.
Maybe 'your' definition doesn't require that, but if you want HER to be comfy and keep riding with ya, it would behoove you to add that 'big seat and a backrest'... If nothing else, just for safety's sake..
YMMV.
And yet....hotties on sportbikes still outnumber those on Harleys. By huge factors. Except maybe in and near Wisconsin.
....but that was never why I ride in the first place.
I've had remarkable women on the back of Honda Interceptors, LTD440'S (I had 2), 1100 Saber, Yamaha 650 special, Honda scrambler. CSR305, just about everything I've owned except the Harley. The Saber was totalled with a woman on the back. (Got hit by a DHL delivery van that ran a red light. )
(By the way, the man at the top of DHL rides. He was LIVID, and made SURE all losses and bills were covered.)
Right now it appears that selling $15K heavy cruisers isn't the approach.
If those heavy cruisers really were $15K, they'd sell a lot more...................a new Street Glide (not the Street Guide Special) is $22K+ & a new Ultra is around $28-30K.
MM
Not saying they are not expensive. But you are not right either.
Harleys will improve when baby boomers die off, and they have to improve the back, and compete. Last 10 years they have changed a bit. Making more changes than they used to. But I agree witht the though millenials are not as interested in Hareys.
GTL is 25.6 http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/us/en/index.html?content=http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/us/en/bike/tour/k1600gtlexclusive/k1600gtlexclusive_overview.html¬rack=1
Funny thing is, I never hear Harley riders bashing other manufacturers' bikes.
Perhaps you have been stone-deaf for many years, are you running straight pipes?
Edited to say: Um...... that was definitely not my experience. Perhaps I am old-school.
You're no older-school than me, bro. And I've been riding my whole life. Grew up on them. Dad bought a robin's egg blue '46 Harley as soon as he got back from war's end in Germany. Rebuilt a Zundapp ground up from a box of parts and had several bikes before and after, all the way up to his last, which was a Gold Wing.
BTW- "rice burner" and "rice rocket" aren't always meant as derogatory terms. Depends on your company, I guess. My brother and I use the terms all the time when speaking together. And he's probably had 3-4 times as many bikes as I have, including Harleys.
You need to get out if the armchair & go to a dealer & look at the tags on the bikes so you can learn what you are talking about............you're not including freight, dealer prep costs & taxes; can't buy a bike w/o those being added.
Pretty rare to see anything I would describe as "hot" on the back of a Harley. Now - I HAVE seen a few of them actually riding one on their own - but that's rare too. Tzone is right about this.
As for "fitting a woman on the back".....My definition of "hot" doesn't require that big seat with a backrest.
Ever heard of a place called Daytona... or Sturgis? No? Thought not.
Where the phugk do you live? Malaysia? TFF.
All you Harley bashers are hilarious. Friggin posers. You get on this board and talk schit about "Murican. Buy 'Murican this and 'Murican made that. I only want 'Murican. Yeah right.
Then you turn around and schit bash the oldest surviving AMERICAN motorcycle manufacturer still building and selling bikes.
You need to get out if the armchair & go to a dealer & look at the tags on the bikes so you can learn what you are talking about............you're not including freight, dealer prep costs & taxes; can't buy a bike w/o those being added.
MM
Other brands don't have set up and freight?
Taxes??? Really that is a joke of an arguement. Just say you were wrong.
I didn't pay freight or set up on my new one. Also got it for less than MSRP, which Harley doesn't like. But new models were coming soon.
Point being, they compare or are less sometimes than other brands, atleast in touring bike. For cruisers, you are probably getting a better dea with Jap. Though they have gone up alot over the years.
Get out of my armchair?? I rode my Ultra to the Arctic Circle.
As for bashing, yes Harley riders do it. But most of them now a days started on Jap. I was surprised at the metric riders pooping themselves over Harleys when I have gotten on some forums.
Harley Davidson has not diversified its product line. How many City bikes do they make? How many Off highway bikes? Not everyone wants a big heavy cruiser. The other major problem they have is US trade policy. If Harley ships to many country's they must pay a tariff some double the base price of the bike. But the US allows that same country to import their products without any tariff or a small one. Blame Clinton, Bush, Obama for this trade imbalance.
I wish they would make a offroad bike. Dual sports a very popular. But they are dominated by metrics. I think the small tank on ulyses would have been a deal breaker for me.
Though I have seen more young folks on baggers, I think they like the music.
The drop in used bikes, may save Harley. It seems to be getting young people into them. They will probably buy new at some point.
Harley is fine where they are and with what they sell. I might keep a streeted KR 750 or a Buell if someone gave it to me, but otherwise I have no interest.
As for Birdwatcher's comment about the Harley convoys, he nailed it. There's a series of roads to Mount Evans on the Colorado Front range. Most is pretty boring but there's a couple sections that are super fun, knee-dragging stuff, I would ride the boring stuff to get to the good stuff and then make multiple passes.
Anyway, one day I get to the Mt Evans junction and there's this convoy of Hogs turning out toward the good parts about 3 miles of boredom away. So I jump in, blow to the front of the line, ride fast to a nice sweeping uphill curve, jump off and go up the embankment, my "reviewing stand" for what I hoped would be a fine parade. Wow, was it worth it.
Starts quiet, then the rumble, then it's LOUD then the rumble and quiet again. Probably 400 Hogs, with 10 mufflers total. While I don't like riding them, there's almost no sound more wonderful than Harleys echoing in the mountains. Maybe the old Springfield Mile would be better, but not by much.
Can't have to many bikes. There are bikes for different rides. Though I have pretty much grown to the size my tank. All 3 of my bikes have trunks and bags. 2 fairings, and one windsheield. While I wouldn't mind riding a little bike. I don't see myself spending money one. For me I have to be able to ride the bike all the time, and not go home to get my truck to get groceries, or if it gets cold.
[quote=Birdwatcher][quote]Funny thing is, I never hear Harley riders bashing other manufacturers' bikes.
But by all means, rap on.
All I can say is, if ya ain't heard Harley riders bash import bikes, ya must have been living on a remote island or someth'n.
Didn't throw a leg over a motorcycle until age 27, having been gone much of that time prior in Africa. For more'n the next ten years pretty much all I owned was my motorcycle, a few guns, and of course binocs. Rode all year round, all weathers, never hardly got off, made it to most of the Lower 48 one year or another. Never owned a car until I was 40. Went to motorcycle events, hung out at motorcycle bars, dated motorcycle women.
In those years a Harley was out of the question because they were stolen so much, mostly by bikers, to be shipped overseas in later years. The worst of it was towards the very end where one MO was to run into the Harley stopped at a light from behind with a truck or van, and then load up the bike into the truck or van. The advice was if ya rode it to work always take a different way home, and have an eyelet set into the slab of the garage to lock it to. As for leaving it outside at the mall or parked at work or in an apartment parking lot day after day/night after night forget it. All of the above weren't very practical if your bike was your only transportation.
I really don't give a rip what you think of this, or me, just plainly stating fact is all.
"In those years a Harley was out of the question because they were stolen so much, mostly by bikers, to be shipped overseas in later years. The worst of it was towards the very end where one MO was to run into the Harley stopped at a light from behind with a truck or van, and then load up the bike into the truck or van. The advice was if ya rode it to work always take a different way home, and have an eyelet set into the slab of the garage to lock it to. As for leaving it outside at the mall or parked at work or in an apartment parking lot day after day/night after night forget it. All of the above weren't very practical if your bike was your only transportation."
If the above was commonplace enough to actually worry about, I'm damn glad I didn't grow up anywhere near you! Just where in the USA was this $hithole location? Never heard of such a thing in my home town.
Harley Davidson has not diversified its product line. How many City bikes do they make?
Quite a few, actually.. Sportster, Dyna, WideGlide, Switchback, etc..
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How many Off highway bikes?
They made one once - not very popular and the engine was weak. Off-road's not their niche..
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Not everyone wants a big heavy cruiser.
True. But not everyone wants to be jackknifed onto the narrow seat of a crotchie either; when, after a few miles, one must get off and hope the knee joint straightens out in time.. I've got a Switchback (FLD) for shorter trips and/or fast errands into town.. But if I'm going from here to Washington D.C., I'm gonna be on the big one..
"In those years a Harley was out of the question because they were stolen so much, mostly by bikers, to be shipped overseas in later years. The worst of it was towards the very end where one MO was to run into the Harley stopped at a light from behind with a truck or van, and then load up the bike into the truck or van. The advice was if ya rode it to work always take a different way home, and have an eyelet set into the slab of the garage to lock it to. As for leaving it outside at the mall or parked at work or in an apartment parking lot day after day/night after night forget it. All of the above weren't very practical if your bike was your only transportation."
If the above was commonplace enough to actually worry about, I'm damn glad I didn't grow up anywhere near you! Just where in the USA was this $hithole location? Never heard of such a thing in my home town.
Jeff
In this case, Birdy's right... Back in the day one was very careful where the bike was parked and/or where you left it for any time.. Always in a locked garage and/or chained to a telephone pole.. But mostly that was in/near the 'big city' and especially out west and south.. But it occurred in the Murderapolis region quite often too..
I began riding in 1971 with an older twin cylinder Honda. I "graduated" to a Honda 550 and rode that bike as a commuter for many years. Next I owned a Kawasaki 650 LTD and rode this bike all over the west coast when stationed in northern California with USAF. In 1983 I bought a Kawasaki twin cylinder 750 and rode cross country from San Francisco to Dayton, Ohio without a windscreen. The wind beat me up pretty good so my next scooter was a Yamaha 1100 full dresser with Vetter fairing and saddlebags. Great bike that lasted me almost 20 years. Now I ride a 1999 Yamaha Royal Star which is a four cylinder motor with V configuration. Very smooth and will keep it indefinitely. No Harleys for me - can not afford one.
"In those years a Harley was out of the question because they were stolen so much, mostly by bikers, to be shipped overseas in later years. The worst of it was towards the very end where one MO was to run into the Harley stopped at a light from behind with a truck or van, and then load up the bike into the truck or van. The advice was if ya rode it to work always take a different way home, and have an eyelet set into the slab of the garage to lock it to. As for leaving it outside at the mall or parked at work or in an apartment parking lot day after day/night after night forget it. All of the above weren't very practical if your bike was your only transportation."
If the above was commonplace enough to actually worry about, I'm damn glad I didn't grow up anywhere near you! Just where in the USA was this $hithole location? Never heard of such a thing in my home town.
Jeff
In this case, Birdy's right... Back in the day one was very careful where the bike was parked and/or where you left it for any time.. Always in a locked garage and/or chained to a telephone pole.. But mostly that was in/near the 'big city' and especially out west and south.. But it occurred in the Murderapolis region quite often too..
Glad I missed out on that nonsense; we never locked anything. All the more thankful for my country upbringing.
....the whole State ....and if it were different in surrounding States I never heard of it.
"Ahem".... a history of Harley thefts according to Birdwatcher.......
First off, I'm going on the assumption that organized Harley theft has always been a function of the patch-wearing Outlaw clubs, which lower-than-whale-crap activity IMHO tells ya all you really need to know about those particular organizations.
I got into motorcycles right before the Evo motor came in in the early eighties and absolutely turned H-D around. In those years it really was the "Harley faithful", regular blue collar working stiffs who loved their motorcycles and who had scrimped and saved for years, which bikes if they were shovelheads had been rebuilt a few times, the necessity of which could be determined by a quick swipe of a finger inside a straight pipe as an index of soot accumulation.
To steal a bike from a guy like that was like ripping his heart out, I'm still recalling an old biker "Independent" I was talking to one time at Luckenbach, like Mr Bojangles speaking of a beloved bike he had ripped off one time years ago when he left it parked outside a bar. He blamed himself for letting it out of his sight. To the best of my knowledge, stolen Harleys were parted out in those years, such that at big rallies like Sturgis I was told that the Cops would set up checkpoints on the highways to check VIN numbers.
Somewhere since then for a period of time, well into the Evo years (and subsequent permutations) they story was that stolen Harleys were being crated up whole and shipped overseas, a lucrative market. The advice was don't leave your bike parked outside, don't ride the same way to work every day, bolt it down in your own garage and, at the end, there was a spate of running into bikes at stoplights and loading them into vehicles while leaving the rider at the scene. At least two of these happened right here in San Antonio.
Back in my motorcycle years my social calendar was pretty much written by the TMRA, and I would attend several poker runs, rallies, meets etc every year. One of 'em went on until after dark, the typical open venue with live music, the crowd of parked bikes spilling out of the parking lot and along the dark country road. In those couple of hours friggin' three Harleys were brazenly stolen from the road out front. That was in East Texas.
Years back here in downtown San Antonio and acquaintance left his Fat Boy parked out front of a restaurant. Walks out later to find a crew of guys loading his bike into a truck, and it weren't even dark yet. Maybe worse, he shouts out, they look at him, drop the bike, pile into the truck and leave the scene. When they dropped it they cracked the cases.
I say "before the end" because since then at some undefined time, certainly in response to market forces whatever they might be, the rate of Harley theft seems to have quite suddenly subsided. I live in a higher-crime area, and at an apartment I pass by quite often some guy has been leaving his 1200 Sportster just parked out in the full sun (which oughtta be a crime) for at least a couple of years now, and it ain't tied down. It does apparently run because sometimes it ain't there, but as of this writing it ain't been taken.
So ya, back when I was living off of a motorcycle (there I was into my thirties, no furniture of any description in my apartment, and my lighting was provided by mechanic's drop lights ) owning a Harley was pretty much out of the question. They weren't fast enough anyway. A Harley faithful buddy who turned wrenches for a living had a worked over Sporty, we rode in company many times, and his bike topped out at about 110, tops. Says a lot about my riding habits back then that 110 weren't fast enough.
That changing your route to/from home sounds like the Third World for cripes sake! Amazing the polar opposites of how things are from place to place in the US(or anywhere for that matter, I suppose).
There are a number of reasons why Harley's aren't stolen as much as they use to. The #1 reason is that states have toughened the laws about titleing a vehicle and the security. In the 90 systoms's and early 00's one could steal a late model Harley, buy a set of S&S crankcases, a Delkron transmission case and a aftermarket frame and put it all together. Ditch the stock frame and cases. Go to the DMV with the bike and the MSO's for the frame and cases and they would hand you a title. About $3500 and you had a new clone with a custom paint job. Now days you need to show a receipt for everything. The new Harleys have numbers on everything. The ECM can not be swapped around. The custom bike market is for the most part dead. It just isn't worth stealing a bike anymore.
I had a three cylinder Kawasaki 500 in 1969. It was the fastest street bike on the market at the time. 0 to 60 in so many seconds (cant remember how many) It was like being strapped to a rocket. It's a wonder I lived through that period.
When my parents met my girlfriend, now my wife, 41 years ago, the second sentence was, "Keep him away from motorcycles."
But there was no problem with 3 cylinder Kaws, they terrified me.
Explains a lot: Steal a Harley, substitute less than $4,000 in parts, and in a week or two have a bike that can be sold for a $10,000 profit. I'm glad those days are over.
Harley Riders don't even give me "the wave" when we pass.
There's a wave, and then there's "the wave"... The former's totally friendly.. The latter's a Harley thing - and ya gotta ride one to understand...
For a period of time I was involved with a pretty woman who had her own Harley, a Shovelhead Lowrider that had been given to her by some guy. She would let me ride it. Here come some big ol' Harley riders the other direction and me and them are all waving at each other like old friends.
None of 'em waved at her because she was on my Jap bike
This bike thread brings back a lot of mammaries........
My first " bike" if you could call it that, was a '46 Cushman. I was 13.... the nice italian maiden neighbor , ( the one with the big knockers) , she was a little younger, loved ....to ride on that clunker. I can still feel her holding on tight.
"In those years a Harley was out of the question because they were stolen so much, mostly by bikers, to be shipped overseas in later years. The worst of it was towards the very end where one MO was to run into the Harley stopped at a light from behind with a truck or van, and then load up the bike into the truck or van. The advice was if ya rode it to work always take a different way home, and have an eyelet set into the slab of the garage to lock it to. As for leaving it outside at the mall or parked at work or in an apartment parking lot day after day/night after night forget it. All of the above weren't very practical if your bike was your only transportation."
If the above was commonplace enough to actually worry about, I'm damn glad I didn't grow up anywhere near you! Just where in the USA was this $hithole location? Never heard of such a thing in my home town.
Jeff
In this case, Birdy's right... Back in the day one was very careful where the bike was parked and/or where you left it for any time.. Always in a locked garage and/or chained to a telephone pole.. But mostly that was in/near the 'big city' and especially out west and south.. But it occurred in the Murderapolis region quite often too..
There were so many bike thefts going on around here back in the day, I had 2 chains on it and a lock on the front forks. Got complacent a few years back and stopped chaining it. Some ass.holes tried to steal it out of my garage a couple years ago. Got it backed out to the street, but couldn't get it started, so dumped it in my swale. Got the first non road rash it's ever had when they dumped it. Glad I didn't catch em. Kept a .357 under my guest pillow with Buffalo Bore cast in it along that time. Switched to .45 now. The calmer, gentler, mature me.
As for "fitting a woman on the back".....My definition of "hot" doesn't require that big seat with a backrest.
If you like women, and riding with women, you will put a back rest on and a comortable seat.
Perhaps some guys need to do that to get them to sit there.
Originally Posted by local_dirt
Originally Posted by FreeMe
Pretty rare to see anything I would describe as "hot" on the back of a Harley. Now - I HAVE seen a few of them actually riding one on their own - but that's rare too. Tzone is right about this.
As for "fitting a woman on the back".....My definition of "hot" doesn't require that big seat with a backrest.
Ever heard of a place called Daytona... or Sturgis? No? Thought not.
Where the phugk do you live? Malaysia? TFF.
I am laughing my head off right now.
I have nothing against Harley or the people who ride their products. But I find it easy to be amused by the attitudes I see from both.
As for "fitting a woman on the back".....My definition of "hot" doesn't require that big seat with a backrest.
If you like women, and riding with women, you will put a back rest on and a comortable seat.
Perhaps some guys need to do that to get them to sit there.
Originally Posted by local_dirt
Originally Posted by FreeMe
Pretty rare to see anything I would describe as "hot" on the back of a Harley. Now - I HAVE seen a few of them actually riding one on their own - but that's rare too. Tzone is right about this.
As for "fitting a woman on the back".....My definition of "hot" doesn't require that big seat with a backrest.
Ever heard of a place called Daytona... or Sturgis? No? Thought not.
Where the phugk do you live? Malaysia? TFF.
I am laughing my head off right now.
I have nothing against Harley or the people who ride their products. But I find it easy to be amused by the attitudes I see from both.
Phugk with the bull, you get the horns. Keep poking the bear, you get to see the claws. You should be old enough to know that, if you're on here.
BTW- I've enjoyed a physical relationship with every lady that's EVER rode on the back of my bikes, except for my stepmother, Harley or any other make. So, your other dig against whoever you were addressing it to doesn't hold water, either.
You Harley raggers really do crack me up. You come out.of the woodwork and rock piles to bash HD. I particularly like the one story about how they run past the Harley to get to the next stoplight first. Really impressive. You obviously have no clue to the meaning of the word "putt" or the concept behind it.
As for "fitting a woman on the back".....My definition of "hot" doesn't require that big seat with a backrest.
If you like women, and riding with women, you will put a back rest on and a comortable seat.
Perhaps some guys need to do that to get them to sit there.
Originally Posted by local_dirt
Originally Posted by FreeMe
Pretty rare to see anything I would describe as "hot" on the back of a Harley. Now - I HAVE seen a few of them actually riding one on their own - but that's rare too. Tzone is right about this.
As for "fitting a woman on the back".....My definition of "hot" doesn't require that big seat with a backrest.
Ever heard of a place called Daytona... or Sturgis? No? Thought not.
Where the phugk do you live? Malaysia? TFF.
I am laughing my head off right now.
I have nothing against Harley or the people who ride their products. But I find it easy to be amused by the attitudes I see from both.
Phugk with the bull, you get the horns. Keep poking the bear, you get to see the claws. You should be old enough to know that, if you're on here.
BTW- I've enjoyed a physical relationship with every lady that's EVER rode on the back of my bikes, except for my stepmother, Harley or any other make. So, your other dig against whoever you were addressing it to doesn't hold water, either.
You Harley raggers really do crack me up. You come out.of the woodwork and rock piles to bash HD. I particularly like the one story about how they run past the Harley to get to the next stoplight first. Really impressive. You obviously have no clue to the meaning of the word "putt" or the concept behind it.
But rock on, m'fugger.
Thanks for another chuckle. Can't say I'm impressed.
This thread started with a claim that millennials (which, sadly, I am not) are killing Harley. Somewhere along the line, a Harley lover piled on the similarly dubious claim that Harleys gather more hot chicks (as if a Rider should care). I am merely pointing out the falsehood of both claims - oh yes, and throwing in a little dig here and there. That some people take offense to that shows some pretty thin skin. But I've noticed that's kind of a trend with people who's identity is wrapped up in a machine, and the image that goes with it.
As for "fitting a woman on the back".....My definition of "hot" doesn't require that big seat with a backrest.
If you like women, and riding with women, you will put a back rest on and a comortable seat.
Perhaps some guys need to do that to get them to sit there.
Originally Posted by local_dirt
Originally Posted by FreeMe
Pretty rare to see anything I would describe as "hot" on the back of a Harley. Now - I HAVE seen a few of them actually riding one on their own - but that's rare too. Tzone is right about this.
As for "fitting a woman on the back".....My definition of "hot" doesn't require that big seat with a backrest.
Ever heard of a place called Daytona... or Sturgis? No? Thought not.
Where the phugk do you live? Malaysia? TFF.
I am laughing my head off right now.
I have nothing against Harley or the people who ride their products. But I find it easy to be amused by the attitudes I see from both.
Phugk with the bull, you get the horns. Keep poking the bear, you get to see the claws. You should be old enough to know that, if you're on here.
BTW- I've enjoyed a physical relationship with every lady that's EVER rode on the back of my bikes, except for my stepmother, Harley or any other make. So, your other dig against whoever you were addressing it to doesn't hold water, either.
You Harley raggers really do crack me up. You come out.of the woodwork and rock piles to bash HD. I particularly like the one story about how they run past the Harley to get to the next stoplight first. Really impressive. You obviously have no clue to the meaning of the word "putt" or the concept behind it.
But rock on, m'fugger.
Thanks for another chuckle. Can't say I'm impressed.
This thread started with a claim that millennials (which, sadly, I am not) are killing Harley. Somewhere along the line, a Harley lover piled on the similarly dubious claim that Harleys gather more hot chicks (as if a Rider should care). I am merely pointing out the falsehood of both claims - oh yes, and throwing in a little dig here and there. That some people take offense to that shows some pretty thin skin. But I've noticed that's kind of a trend with people who's identity is wrapped up in a machine, and the image that goes with it.
Actually, you're phuggking wrong again. The thread went sideways when some dumb phoughk took it as yet another opportunity to bash HD's. And it ALWAYS happens that way.
I have no idea who the phoughk you're talking about, but MY identity is never wrapped up in a/one machine. That's the problem with you HD bashers. You start every thought process and conversation with your ASS-umptions. Kinda reminds me of .. liberals.
Speaking of motorcycles, last Friday we went to Wauseon Oh. And saw a great race program.
The big event of the night was a 5 lap match race between two riders that when kids they were bad fast, now they are some older and they are still fast.
In the 5 laps they swapped the lead 10 or 15 time and George won by about a bike length, a crowd pleaser for sure.
They both rode factory prepped 750 HDs, of coarse no brakes and lots of power slides. Harleys rock!
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'Course, ride the Skyway in the other direction and its prob'ly awesome ![[Linked Image]](http://www.shrewbows.com/rons_linkpics/Rare-breed.jpg)
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