I know I'm probably gonna get hammered for this, but to this day I don't understand the all in "magnum" crowd. Especially for deer hunting but in my view it could even extend to bear and elk except in cases of having the same energy at greater distances.

I entered some parameters on the Hodgdon reloading site. A 180 grain bullet for a 30-06 and a 180 grain bullet for a 300 Weatherby Magnum. Taking the top powder charge listed for both, basically the 300 Weatherby Magnum is a 43% increase in powder for under a 12% increase in speed. Using a recoil formula with an 8 lb rifle and a 180 grain bullet for both, the Weatherby would deliver a 60% increase in felt recoil! For what? You are still hitting the animal with the same .308 caliber bullet.

I don't get it even for normal bear hunting. If I keep shots under 250 yds with an 06 and I can shoot it accurately without flinching, I will kill any black bear on the planet with as much authority as can be expected when dealing with bears.

Ok

223AI is not a magnum.

Oh goody for you

Lol. Are you saying some brow beatings are coming my way?

Ahh Yep.

Lol. Well until someone can convince me of the authentication and year that deer developed armor plating, I'm going to remain highly skeptical of the magnums advantages and efficiency.

Haha. I'll oblige




I know us dudes act tough and some of us even pretend not to care about recoil, like not even think about it at all, and of course it's all a farce because we have little weeners. I know.

But don't tell my wife, she prefers the 300 WSM which is a bitchy magnum, I know, to my 30-06 and since she doesn't have a little weener like us guys to tell her to be scared she doesn't even complain about recoil. She just nuts right up to it and shoots it. Sometimes $hit falls down afterwards too. Probably her tits pad the kick enough for her to tolerate it.

And here I am mostly using my lowly .308,,,,,,,,,,,,,, in a lever action,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,99 Sometimes I carry a model 70 in .243 Lately I have been drawn for Muzzleloader so I bought a .50 cal. I will call that my big bore magnum if I put full load into it.

The 243 was just invented so the 308 didn't feel so bad about its little weener. You can't possibly kill stuff with those 2 guns, do you?

My pistol is a 30-06so my rifle has to be bigger. Right? Ed k

lol

Cool thing is you dont have to get it. Shoot what you like, as we all do. Last I checked there is only 1 level of dead. I enjoy shooting magnums. Not recoil sensitive at all. If a boring 308 trips your prick, then have at it. No wrong way here, but for sure more than 1 right way

Under 250?

Must be an eastern thing.

I figure a gun is just a tool. If it works, fine with me. I hunted elk with a 300 WSM for years. Then I took a recall of all the elk I'd shot with it and there wasn't a single one that I couldn't have got just as well with a 30-06 that weighs a pound less. That pound counts more for me than the cool of the magnum.

That's why I said except for same energy at greater distances. The "magnum" bug infects even easterners. I see untold amount of guys lugging those long barreled cannon's around in the deer woods and they are actually convinced they are at an advantage. True believers.

My favorite magnum story.....

At the gym I used to go to, a couple of young guys were talking about rifles and my ears perked up. One of the guys said he hunted deer with a 300 Remington Ultra mag. I butted into their conversation asking if Grizzlys were a problem on his deer lease (we were in South Ga). They both laughed and the fella told me that the reason he bought a 300 RUM was that his buddy had a 7mm RUM and he was tired of hearing him brag about it.

More than one magnum has probably been sold for that very reason!

Shade, I believe they call it, "Diminishing Returns". Twice the input does not produce twice the output.

Once again is there more than 1 level of dead? If others can easily handle the added recoil, then what does it matter?

The simple answer is that a magnum overrides the need for good shot placement or the need to hunt the wind. A big scope means you never need to get more than a few feet from the truck unless you have power windows. Muzzle blast is a bitch with magnums so make sure you put your beer in a cup holder, you'll spill beer on the dash otherwise.

And as far as weight goes, all of my "magnums" have been sub 7lb rifles. Some sub 6lb.

DRT and dead after a long chase are two very different things.

As Long as somone is willing to buy then why not build and sell them...I agree with you compleatly I dearly love the 30-06 for most hunting situations and never leave home without one as at least a backup...there is a nich market for magnum class rifles and there are times when the 06 just won't preform well....one of my farms has a river bottom field I hunt where the potential of an 800 yd shot could be made with the right equipment....I usually Cary the a custom l61 r sako in 300 why....farthest to date is a tad over 400 and those 200 gr AB s hit hard even at that range.....the 06 is capable at 400 but not much further ...

You're kinda making my point

Agreed. Guess why I said that I was thinking of a Jim Shockey show I watched, who I genuinely like. But he made the comment on this show that I believe I'm correct in remembering was about bear hunting....black bear in this case. And he said he likes to have hunters show up with a 300 magnum, minimum. I don't get that at all. Most of the bear I ever seen killed at his camps looked like they were under 200 yd shots. Seems to me if you are talking about the same caliber, bullet structure and bullet placement would be way more important than more powder but maybe I'm being closed minded.

Truth be told my all time favorite rifle round is the 3006. But that being said I'm a gun lover. I also enjoy killing chit with magnums that kill deer too dead

There isnt much that a properly placed 06 wont fall to. Guessing nothing really

Magnums do exactly what "standard" cartridges do, but at greater distances.

The 300 WSM is a MINO "Magnum In Name Only."

I feel under gunned a lot of the times, but everything I have shot at falls down dead for some reason. Maybe I should get a .270 magnum AI

Some are sensitive to recoil, some are not. Some like to milk the cartridge for every possible fps, others not fixed on that. The term "magnum" had certain meaning 50 years ago - seems to mean different things these days. The technical definition was interesting when first I read it.

Despite the proclivities, favorites, myths and bragging points - it all seems to boil down to consistently excellent shooting accuracy with good bullets.

A few years ago, a local retailer had Mark X Mausers for sale at $199. When I got there, all they had left was a 300 Win. Mag. so I bought it. If all they had was an '06, I would have bought that. It is easy to load to '06 levels with 155 grain bullets for deer hunting. I also load near max loads with 180 grain partitions for elk hunting. It seems to be a flexible cartridge.

Don't blame ya. That was a good buy.

This is true enough. It just grinds some people's gears that some people can comfortably shoot bigger cartridges than they can.

Of course it's equally grating to hear stuff like (it doesn't matter where you hit them with a magnum, they're going down"

A few??? Methinks you're showing your age a bit.

Love it! That's good chit right there. I'm going to grab my 300WSM and a 12 pack.

My hunting pard carries a Rem 700 in .300 win mag. I have a Mod 70 in 7mm Rem mag. I would rather shoot his 300 over my 7mm. His seems to kick about the same as my .308 where my 7mm has a sharper kick. Maybe I will change stocks on it and see if that helps. I can shoot my .50 BMG more than my 7mm. More of a push like a 10 ga than the sharpness of the 7mm.

So, where does she get a big weener?

BTW, great looking elk killer you got there.

ShadeTree,

You said it in your original post. One can get greater range with more velocity. There is no need to endure increased recoil. I use a brake and know no one around this area who doesn't. The same goes for electronic hearing enhancer / protection.

It's a lot closer to a 300 WM than it is to an '06.

It is just a cartridge.

Nobody is forcing you to shoot a magnum anything.

90+% of the time I shoot a .308 for deer and elk.

The rest I normally use a .300WM (for elk). The environmental conditions and distances (like when ranges exceed 600+) usually are the determining factors.

What other people think, and recoil formulas, is never a factor.

Shoot what you want. Nobody cares.

If all I had was my 6mm Remington, I don't think it would slow me down much.

You did well on both counts.

Getting older has moved me away from most magnums. I don't like the recoil, and it causes me some physical damage now. Weight is also a bigger factor, and lighter guns keep me hunting longer; we do a lot of walking, and much of that is vertical. A Kimber MT 257 Roberts will be my go-to for my NV deer, but I'll lug my MT in 325WSM for my Montana deer and elk hunts this season. It hammered the two elk and two mulies I shot with it. I look at it as a "moderate-magnum".

Some guys drive vettes, some drive priuses. Both get you to the bar. The vette might get u home with the blonde.
The mag rifle adds a level of confidence just like the vette does.

I know guys who gain zero confidence by using a "magnum" but who experience great confidence because they have made themselves excellent riflemen. Maybe I need to get a Corvette - no - wait - I have an old one.

Since you have a corvette you could compensate by shooting a .270. 😉

I'd agree that a dragster is not an efficient way to get through a quarter mile. But it's a kick in the ass and the quickest way to get there. To each his own. Within calibers, there are few cartridges that will outrun my Weatherby's.

I'm not sure that magnums are as big of a deal as they used to be post laser rangefinders. Where I hunt a 100 yard shot for deer or black bear is a long one, most are shot at about half that. My favorite deer rifles are a Remington Classic in 7x57mm left to by my favorite Uncle and my first deer rife a Marlin 336 30-30 when I'm walking a lot. My son has been killing deer with a .223 and 55 grain Barnes ttsx since he was nine.

Haha not from dudes on the internet, that's for sure. Nobody on the internet can handle recoil so, you know. Small hands too, nimble and good for typing but boy do they shake with a 'magnum' in 'em. (man, there's all kinds of puns in there )

And thanks, it's one of my favorite rifles

The firearms that others own and use are none of your business so you are not required to 'understand' them.


I personally enjoy using 7mm on running rabbits, loads of fun.

You completely missed the point of the whole post. It's not an argument about what is more fun to one person over another. If someone enjoys shooting or killing stuff more with a magnum have at it. Why would I even consider I should have an opinion on that? None of that was even in the thought process.

It's instead a debate on physics and about the supposed superiority of a magnum by some in all manner of hunting. The comment on the Jim Shockey show was a perfect example.....and guys I run into toting magnums in the deer woods is another.

I would argue that under 250 yds the magnums can offer a disadvantage. Both in needless recoil to accomplish the job at hand, and in finding out there are limits to the stress a particular bullet that is otherwise completely adequate, can endure when taking a shot up close and personal. I know guys that HATE one particular bullet or another, will never use them again because of complete failure........but of course the problem wasn't they were launching a relatively low sectional density bullet like a 30 cal 150 grain at blistering speeds. But their magnums are still better.

No, you have missed the point, which is stop being a judgemental prick and leave other peoples choices alone.

Gooney, I would do well to keep that law in the back of my head regarding all sorts of things I work at not at all related to firearms.

Good grief man, have a cup of coffee. It's a debate about guns, learning, ballistics,etc, on a HUNTING forum. I learned some things and seen some good points made. And would get along just fine with several that are obvious magnum fans. If you don't want to participate, then dont.

Sigh...you just don't understand.

3006/100 yard zero MV 2700 fps:

Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2706.2 2.424 2926.5 0.000 0.0 ***
100 -0.0 -0.0 0.7 0.7 2525.0 2.262 2547.8 0.115 20.2 19.3
200 -4.0 -1.9 2.8 1.4 2351.1 2.106 2208.8 0.238 41.9 20.0
300 -14.2 -4.5 6.6 2.1 2183.9 1.956 1905.9 0.370 65.2 20.7
400 -31.8 -7.6 12.2 2.9 2023.6 1.813 1636.4 0.513 90.3 21.6

300 Weatherby, 3250 fps same zero:

Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 3257.0 2.917 4239.1 0.000 0.0 ***
100 -0.0 -0.0 0.5 0.5 3051.8 2.733 3721.7 0.095 16.7 16.0
200 -2.2 -1.1 2.2 1.1 2856.0 2.558 3259.6 0.197 34.6 16.5
300 -8.7 -2.8 5.1 1.6 2668.8 2.390 2846.1 0.305 53.8 17.1
400 -20.1 -4.8 9.4 2.2 2489.1 2.230 2475.9 0.422 74.2 17.7

I feel the same way about smokeless powder guns.

IMHO, it is likely that on ALL continents more and bigger 'game' has been taken with cartridges that, by todays 'standards', would be referred to as pedestrian, than with the Magnum stable of cartridges............

doesn't change anything, but it just is............... IMHO

You can easily put it in an equation.

For example, 270 Win + 10 grains +100 fps = 7mm Rem mag

Now, is the price of 10 grains of bullet weight and 100 fps additional weight worth wearing pink underwear?

ShadeTree - now you went and did it - you attracted a guy (the guy?) who does not address the topic at hand but who will tell you what is and is not your business, what or what not you are required to understand, and will judge you as a "judgemental (sic) prick". Seemingly he thinks he knows you well, but did you have to bring him into this?

JS, I think you're over-understanding the post.

ShadeTree you've hit the nail on the head, but are trying to explain it to a box of hammers. Kind of a full circle thing....

I think Jorge's above post succinctly answers the question.

I hunt with a 300 Weatherby and it kills whatever I shoot.

Your bum still sore huh?

Naw L2S, just a play on the original post, and a touch of boredom.

Nah! Doesn't happen - simply immune. Am appreciating the good folks on here and enjoying giving figs.

The 30-06 is capable of far more than 400 yards if you know what you are doing and can shoot worth a damn.

I only own one magnum. A 300 WM. I don't think I've fired it in 6-8 years now, But... I like it for two things I set it up to do. It's Good to go out to 500 yards and it is a hoot to shoot with Barnes 130s in it. When you start smacking deer with a bullet moving over 3500 FPS it produces different results. My experience is that I see a difference with velocity increases of at least 300 FPS and 400 is better. 200 FPS is not really noticeable to me in most cases. I could set it up to do a lot more than 500, but the mono bullets I shoot now don't do so well out there, for that kind of range cup and core is about the only option. That said, Shoot light to very light for caliber monos at very high velocities and getting very superior penetration is sort of like the performance we used to get out of 50s/60s/70s magnums.