Home
An opinion piece suggesting we hunters cave to public pressure.
Fugg him ... I'm sick and tired of caving and compromising.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opi...ing-animals-we-dont-eat/article37701186/

Chris Darimont is an associate professor in the department of geography at the University of Victoria and science director for the Raincoast Conservation Foundation.

Television personality and hunter Steve Ecklund recently became a target. He posted images of his smiling face lording over a cougar he had legally killed in northern Alberta. Mr. Ecklund and a team of hunting guides had released dogs to pursue fresh cat tracks. After a chase, the exhausted cougar took short-lived refuge up a tree as frenzied dogs barked below. Some time later, Mr. Ecklund arrived at the tree with his weapon.

The imagery of a delighted hunter holding up his trophy – the bloodied, lifeless cougar – was grotesque to many. Thousands commented online, including Laureen Harper, the wife of former prime minister Stephen Harper, who suggested on Twitter that Mr. Ecklund "must be compensating for something, small penis probably."

STORY CONTINUES BELOW ADVERTISEMENT

Broader outrage also erupted, many lamenting the senseless killing of a large carnivore or questioning the ethics – indeed, legitimacy – of a wildlife-management system that normalizes the killing of animals that are not eaten. Many hunters, myself included, were among those disgusted. Though far fewer in number, other hunters fired back with fervent support.

Such fiery debate, increasingly common, suggests that change is coming. But it will not come easy for either side.

Understanding this conflict requires acknowledging that wildlife can mean not only populations but also individuals that comprise them. Wildlife managers in Alberta and elsewhere focus their concern for wildlife exclusively at the population level. In general, they estimate whether the population contains a so-called "harvestable surplus." If so – fair game! Those opposed, however, consider the suffering endured by the individual animals caught up in this system. They understand that hunting involves suffering, and that wildlife can suffer in the same way humans can. The logic was expressed elegantly by an early ethicist: Jeremy Bentham famously asked, "The question is not, 'Can they reason?' Nor, 'Can they talk?' But, 'Can they suffer?'"

And here's the important part: most people can accept the idea of suffering and death if the hunter kills to fulfill a basic life requisite, such as feeding one's family; in contrast, most people oppose killing inedible animals for trivial reasons, such as feeding one's ego.

Proponents of predator hunting understand the nature of the opposition, and are desperately trying to adapt. That is why, no doubt, Mr. Ecklund made the point to show off a photo of his cougar stir-fry. Most people were repulsed, understanding intuitively that the meat of large carnivores should be avoided. Evolutionarily and culturally, this ability evolved because of the risk of acquiring diseases we share with predators. Recognizing this, hunting regulations in Alberta and elsewhere have never required hunters to take any potentially edible portions from the carcasses of large carnivores. The explicit understanding is that these hunters are only interested in trophy items: skins, heads and claws and, more recently, photos to post online.

Together, this means that deceptive claims of food hunting will not fool those opposed to the killing that large carnivores and the trivial benefits the hunter receives. In the case of Mr. Ecklund, he called it "an unreal ending to a fun filled season."

Opposition to the killing of carnivores will intensify in North America. This values-based opposition will mirror other campaigns for just treatment of those human and non-human groups commonly mistreated. Many managers and hunters will vigorously defend the status quo, often using questionable science as justification. Their population-level logic, however, which draws on our reverence for science, is seductive. That is, until one confronts its central assumption: that science alone (i.e. the presence of a "harvestable surplus") can dictate policy. In theory and practice, this is not the case.

STORY CONTINUES BELOW ADVERTISEMENT

Sound wildlife policy needs to draw from many domains. Clearly, it should reflect not only the values of hunters (often less than 10 per cent of the population) but also the values generally expressed by society. Conflicting economic interests, such asecotourism, must also be considered. For example, economic analyses have shown that grizzly bear viewing brings in over 10 times the annual revenue of grizzly hunting in coastal B.C.. Policies and laws asserted by Indigenous governments also need recognition. All these factors led to the ban of grizzly bear hunting in British Columbia. Similarly, a referendum in the 1990s led to a ban on cougar hunting in California, not because there were too few cats, but rather because society thought that the time of hunting mountain lions was up.

Hunters argue, reasonably, that if non-hunters want to influence wildlife policy then they, too, need to contribute to the system, doing more than solely expressing passionate emotion in their online advocacy. As individual recreationists or ecotourism clients, they could, for example, pay for access to wildlife-rich areas. They could consider contributing to the purchase of guided hunting territories, a conservation economic strategy pioneered in B.C. At the very least, they must minimize the impacts of their recreational, consumer and investment behaviour that ultimately causes suffering and death of wildlife. Finally, non-hunters must understand that in North America, habitat loss is typically a much larger threat to wildlife than hunting.

Hunters and their lobby groups have a choice. One option is digging in their heels and ignoring the changing times. The BC Wildlife Federation (the organization that represents B.C. hunters) has done precisely that in response to the grizzly hunt ban. Such a stand endangers the social licence afforded to all hunters. A minority of hunters – those that kill large carnivores – sully the reputation of the whole group. Anachronistic policies also cause conflict with environmental groups, foreclosing opportunities for collaboration over shared interests.

The other, more promising optionwould require hunters and their organizations to rid themselves of the fringe trophy-hunting element. That way, the privilege to feed our families is not jeopardized by a minority who hunt carnivores to feed their egos.



I can’t stop shooting pigs!!
Sooo , we should stop hunting all predators and then when ohhh let say the coyotes get out of control and start killing cats , dogs and attacking kids playing in yards it’s all fine and dandy because you know we don’t eat them..
How about I identify as First Peoples/Native American? As an Indigineous cismale, I will allowed to hunt anything, anywhere, anytime, as long as I wear a dreamcatcher and have a spirit blessing asfter the successful hunt.

This is squarely aimed at Liberals propensity for nonsense.
Gays need to stop having gay sex, because Christians are against it. If gays want to "protect their social license" to be gay, they will quit having gay sex, and quit throwing their gayness in everyone else's face. Checkmate.
Does this mean I have to junk my 270’s ????
Originally Posted by hanco
Does this mean I have to junk my 270’s ????


Naw, .270's come from the factory pre-junked.😀
Originally Posted by colvin
Sooo , we should stop hunting all predators and then when ohhh let say the coyotes get out of control and start killing cats , dogs and attacking kids playing in yards it’s all fine and dandy because you know we don’t eat them..



It's not like we can reason with the enemy.
This guy is under the misguided impression that people who are raising hell about some guy killing a cat are also okay with him killing a deer for meat.

Its the same mindset some people have about "assault weapons"....the same people who want to ban them will be wanting to ban the "sniper rifles" that people use to hunt deer with.....but that ain't obvious to some.
Geography professor? Hmm, must be an expert!
I don't have a social license. I don't need one.
The bigger picture is to let the bears, wolves and cats kill all deer and elk, you now have nothing to hunt and threrfore dont need guns, we'll be by next week to pick em up for ya.

Figuring a liberal is easier than pissing off the back porch!
The general, non hunting public has many misconceptions of hunting. First they make little distinction between sport hunting, subsistence hunting, and in the rare case where critters are killed and the carcass left behind except for antlers, horn or hide--I'm not aware of the latter being legal anywhere in the USA. In Colorado one has to ostensibly consume the carcass of anything they kill with a hunting license--including, say, a coyote or cougar.

But the term "trophy hunting" to the general public is interpreted to mean we don't make use of the carcass. I have to constantly explain this is not the case.

In Africa, although the hunter rarely takes the meat home, my understanding is the carcass is donated to the locals regardless of the species.

One of the most difficult arguments to defend is hunting for a particular species and making no attempt to put the carcass to use. It's an argument we will lose almost every time.

I did kill a porcupine last year that was starting to gnaw on some plywood at our high country place. I buried him instead of eating him so the cows wouldn't stick their nose in the carcass. I've never ate porcupine........

And the only cougar I've ever tried wasn't very palatable.

But I do have bear meat in the freezer. I have a buddy who makes smoked bear meat sandwiches to die for....
Originally Posted by stevelyn
Originally Posted by colvin
Sooo , we should stop hunting all predators and then when ohhh let say the coyotes get out of control and start killing cats , dogs and attacking kids playing in yards it’s all fine and dandy because you know we don’t eat them..



It's not like we can reason with the enemy.



We are not reasoning with anti-hunters, but it is absolutely necessary to reason with the general non-hunting public. They tolerate hunting as long as they believe we hunt in an ethical manner and do not waste wildlife.

Without the general non-hunters support--who make up the large majority of Americans--we won't have hunting. Sport hunting does not exist without their tacit support.
[/i]The other, more promising optionwould require hunters and their organizations to rid themselves of the fringe trophy-hunting element. That way, the privilege to feed our families is not jeopardized by a minority who hunt carnivores to feed their egos.[i]

Apparently this is suggested as the best option to save our hunting heritage. To start cutting out and devouring our own.
I'm sure that would lay the whole issue to rest for the anti's.

So killing an animal at two years of age is acceptable but if that same animal reaches maturity then it's a travesty.
There is no logic with these dipschitts.

Crazy
Originally Posted by T_O_M
I don't have a social license. I don't need one.

I'm anti-social
The protection of large carnivores is almost undoubtedly an assault on humans being allowed to hunt or raise livestock. We rural people in flyover country are not liked or understood at all by a large segment of the population. They don't have any inkling of the necessarily cruel process by which a wolf pack kills a large ungulate. It is ok with them if once they are through killing the wild game these predators move on to Cliven Bundy's cows. People likes us have to be marginalized and then stamped out. I suspect a lot of the angst being expressed about the last election comes from liberals not realizing how many Neanderthals there were still out there to vote against their coastal power centers.
No, what we need to preserve our Constitutional right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness is for these people to stop trying to dictate how other people live.
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
No, what we need to preserve our Constitutional right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness is for these people to stop trying to dictate how other people live.


But Rocky, you know very well sport hunting is a privilege the same as a driver's license. An argument that sport hunting is a right has no legal/Constitutional standing that I'm aware of.
Originally Posted by Hastings
I suspect a lot of the angst being expressed about the last election comes from liberals not realizing how many Neanderthals there were still out there to vote against their coastal power centers.



I like that!!!
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
No, what we need to preserve our Constitutional right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness is for these people to stop trying to dictate how other people live.


It's a good bet the author is a Trudeau loving Canuck.


Originally Posted by T_O_M
I don't have a social license. I don't need one.


Whenever you see the the root words "common" or "social", it's obvious your dealing with the commie crew.
so the dude who wrote the article was a geography professor huh. he probably does know or suspect how the average urban citizen has become disconnected from the land. they have been schooled in a different direction. it has affected their understanding of natural processes.

at the end of the day it comes down to politics, just like everything else involving humans.
Originally Posted by alpinecrick
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
No, what we need to preserve our Constitutional right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness is for these people to stop trying to dictate how other people live.


But Rocky, you know very well sport hunting is a privilege the same as a driver's license. An argument that sport hunting is a right has no legal/Constitutional standing that I'm aware of.

I could see some groups trying legitimize that point and try to drive it home. That's the reason I always stand on sound and proven game management models when stating my case for non hunting folks.
Managing the older age class benifets the whole population in the big picture. Just because I can't afford to participate in that part of it doesn't negate the role that it plays in overall sound game management of the entire species.

Bottom line is there is no middle ground with those that want to control us.
I'll send them all the coyotes they can eat.

And skunks, and diseased hogs. They might think prairie dog is scrumptious as well.
I burned my "social licence" instead of my draft card.
I remember about the time california passed their restriction on lions, some of their game and fish guys were visiting in arizona, and i had an arizona officer living couple doors down. He was relaying their thoughts that the ban would not be good in general.
Cats lose their fear of humanity, and that's where the trouble starts.
I remember asking this guy about the change in arizona, yes we are massively infected by california, that you couldn't shoot a lactating female or a female with cubs. I said how do you know that in heavy brush at a 100yards. His answer to me was , you were born in arizona, you know what to do. the 3 S's if not the right animal, shoot, shovel, and shut up.
We have had an explosion of growth in arizona people wise, and i personal know of a mt lion that was taking naps on a guys porch in a subdivision in prescott. And warning signs on some of the hiking trails to rattle cans when in a cats presence. Only time till a kid gets snatched. I live near and work in sun city, arizona, part of the metro valley. New arrivals are in horror when little fluffy gets snatched by a pack of coyotes or a hawk. All those golf courses etc are really good for the rabbit population, water, cover and the predators love it too.
I live in phoenix, houses all over, and have a pack of coyotes working the feral cat population around me. Friend of mine says he is waiting for the yotes to get rid of the cats, then he will get rid of the yotes.
I like to tell people and it's true I don't LIKE to kill anything. And I generally will not shoot anything i don't intend to eat. But that's just me.
And i tell people animals don't go to an ol animals home. Wait until you are camped at night and listen to the cries of an animal getting eaten alive by a coyote pack or a lion. A bullet is a lot better.
but this guy is a canadian, not to put down all canadians, but as a member of a conservation group his viewpoint comes through.
I would have had my azz kicked as a kid if i had the chance to shoot certain things and didn't do it. Such as rattlers, yotes, cat and so on.
There were reasons for doing them. still valid. And you have to be stupid not to realize what higher predators can do to deer/elk populations if they themselves are not under pressure. we have an expanding wolf population in arizona that are in a lot of the state where the state says they are not, except people have seen them. they are also cross breeding with coyotes. Years to come will be fun.
I can't tell somebody how many kids to have, or if they should be vegan, or how they should vote. I can certainly have an opinion and make suggestions, but nobody is required to listen to me. That's the beauty of the USA.

I will say that I don't shoot much these days that I don't want to eat, except coyotes, feral hogs, and water moccasins / copperheads (we do eat feral sows). I'll also plug a crow if the mood strikes and he's bugging me. I give passes to foxes and bobcats, just because I like them and choose to let them go.
It’s not ok to kill to kill predators......

but, it is ok to kill unborn humans?

F’n Libtards....
Change an entire culture, ... because a geography professor says so.
Typical lack of logic...how do they keep forgetting that furbearer's pelts buy food. Kill to eat, defined - for critical thinkers, at least... A point I rarely get any feedback on after reminding the online Anti freaks.
I don't care if anybody does it but I don't see the point in killing Elephants, Giraffes, Hippos or Rhinos unless it's in defense of life or property.
Originally Posted by victoro
I don't care if anybody does it but I don't see the point in killing Elephants, Giraffes, Hippos or Rhinos unless it's in defense of life or property.


Elephants, Giraffes, Hippos, and Rhinos are all quite edible.........
Originally Posted by alpinecrick
Originally Posted by victoro
I don't care if anybody does it but I don't see the point in killing Elephants, Giraffes, Hippos or Rhinos unless it's in defense of life or property.


Elephants, Giraffes, Hippos, and Rhinos are all quite edible.........



They eat every ounce of them in Africa when you kill one.

The natives have a much needed bonus from the meat provided.
Originally Posted by alpinecrick
Originally Posted by victoro
I don't care if anybody does it but I don't see the point in killing Elephants, Giraffes, Hippos or Rhinos unless it's in defense of life or property.


Elephants, Giraffes, Hippos, and Rhinos are all quite edible.........


My freezer isn't big enough.
Originally Posted by rockinbbar
Originally Posted by alpinecrick
Originally Posted by victoro
I don't care if anybody does it but I don't see the point in killing Elephants, Giraffes, Hippos or Rhinos unless it's in defense of life or property.


Elephants, Giraffes, Hippos, and Rhinos are all quite edible.........



They eat every ounce of them in Africa when you kill one.

The natives have a much needed bonus from the meat provided.


I knew that but that's why hunters pay a lot of money to kill them.
Originally Posted by victoro
I don't care if anybody does it but I don't see the point in killing Elephants, Giraffes, Hippos or Rhinos unless it's in defense of life or property.


Why? hunting gives them VALUE, thereby the locals protect them. Not hunting them assures their extinction. It's a FACT, not to mention the other FACT, every once of protein is consumed.
Originally Posted by hanco
Does this mean I have to junk my 270’s ????


Hey if you wanna rub your junk on your 270 go for it........
That's not why hunters pay a lot of money to kill them.
we humans do love to consume meat based protein. some people claim we're natural borne vegetarians. some claim we are natural born killers.

the wolves from a contract signed some 20,000 years ago to travel with us knew exactly what they were doing, right?

agreements have been made. we must live up to our side of the bargain, or be banished from the countryside.

animals manifested on this urthen to help humans become established and be in command & control.
The author is warping young minds at U Vic, and once warped, getting them straight is going to be even harder. Shameful.

But I'm running across more data that shows predation from varmints (aka "charismatic megafauna" and/or "large carnivores") is damaging huntable numbers, reducing success, killing agency revenues -- and you can bet your last penny that idiots like our professor think that's great. Predators are like having unregulated poachers given free ammo to kill everything they want. And the anti-niks are so hatred of hunting, they don't understand that there won't even be any fuzzie wuzzies left for them.

These are dangerous times.
The guy probably expects us to eat prairie dogs which hunters all know can carry bubonic plague. What an out of touch liberal academic the guy is, he knows not that he knows not. But what should he care after all he is a college professor.
Similarly, a referendum in the 1990s led to a ban on cougar hunting in California, not because there were too few cats, but rather because society thought that the time of hunting mountain lions was up.

Makes perfect sense to me. When the people get fed up with hunters taking care of predators (large carnivores if you want to make them sound sweet) out of sight, out of mind, they just need to make their voices heard at the ballot box.

Then they can have all of the grizzly and cougar and coyote viewing they want and those pesky deer and elk won’t be obstructing their view. As long as yuppified commies that think only animals that are hunted feel pain are framing the argument we will get drivel like this.
I could easily give up on killing predators.



but there's no season on liberals



sigggghhh
Is it wrong to shoot a whistle pig with a 270?
haters gonna hate, and socialists/communists are gonna screw with your rights. No big surprise. Most professors of 'higher education' have been educated far beyond their intelligence. At least half of the population are emotional sheep.
Originally Posted by Dogshooter
It’s not ok to kill to kill predators......

but, it is ok to kill unborn humans? ....

The only thing that Liberal has in common with Logic is that they both start with "L"...
Originally Posted by victoro
I don't care if anybody does it but I don't see the point in killing Elephants, Giraffes, Hippos or Rhinos unless it's in defense of life or property.


Then you're an idiot. Shoot such an animal and you feed dozens of natives whose children have protein deficiency disease. Shoot such an animal and the trophy fee pays thousands of dollars to the local tribal council for schools and roads. Shoot such an animal and you might prevent a farmer from starving to death after an elephant wipes out his crop in one night.

Of course, I assume that if you caught a 35 pound largemouth bass you'd sneak home through an ally and not tell anyone. Idiot.
Originally Posted by IndyCA35
Originally Posted by victoro
I don't care if anybody does it but I don't see the point in killing Elephants, Giraffes, Hippos or Rhinos unless it's in defense of life or property.


Then you're an idiot. Shoot such an animal and you feed dozens of natives whose children have protein deficiency disease. Shoot such an animal and the trophy fee pays thousands of dollars to the local tribal council for schools and roads. Shoot such an animal and you might prevent a farmer from starving to death after an elephant wipes out his crop in one night.

Of course, I assume that if you caught a 35 pound largemouth bass you'd sneak home through an ally and not tell anyone. Idiot.



You could offer your opinion in a nicer way if you wanted to - just saying .
Originally Posted by Mannlicher
haters gonna hate, and socialists/communists are gonna screw with your rights. No big surprise. Most professors of 'higher education' have been educated far beyond their intelligence. At least half of the population are emotional sheep.



We really do need "Like" buttons here.
Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
Gays need to stop having gay sex, because Christians are against it. If gays want to "protect their social license" to be gay, they will quit having gay sex, and quit throwing their gayness in everyone else's face. Checkmate.


I got some education, and more than an average number of words...can't think of a better counter argument than this.
Killing predators has a direct impact on the availability of the edible game we hunt. Perhaps that should be a strong part of our messaging. Relative to cougars, that recent study found they killed a lot more big game than we thought.
Originally Posted by .280Rem
Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
Gays need to stop having gay sex, because Christians are against it. If gays want to "protect their social license" to be gay, they will quit having gay sex, and quit throwing their gayness in everyone else's face. Checkmate.


I got some education, and more than an average number of words...can't think of a better counter argument than this.


The flaw with that position is that one group has civil rights protecting them and the other doesn't. One group needn't worry about having what they do legislated away. The other group has had some of what they do legislated away. We need to rely heavily on science to support what we do.
© 24hourcampfire