I mean, just for academic type concerns and arguments and suchlike. Let's say they're both legal where you live. Let's also say you wanna lay a good beatdown on some deserving dickweasel. Are brass knuckles better or sap gloves. Sap Gloves are those leather gloves with powdered lead in them.

Hey, I'm a happy-go-lucky guy who loves everybody and all that good shixt, but I saw this here show a couple of years back and this cop laid a damned good beatdown on this guy with some brass knucks so...for the sake of discussion here on the campfire site. Uh...urth eating and LBJ dropped the A bomb on the slopes...just to put everybody in the proper Gus mode.

Ethan,

I have a good friend in law enforcement.

He insists there is no better tool than the sap glove.

They hold no interest for me but he is experienced so I thought this might help in your decision.




Travis

A bar of Ivory soap in a sock is effective and you can wash up if you work up a sweat.

No decision. Just for academic purposes only. But thanks anyway. I value all opinions.

They are illegal in many places.
And for some reason, it seems like you can shoot someone in self-defense,
But any other weapon you carry is a problem.

So, sap gloves. You hit someone with brass knuckles, a blind proctologist could
sniff it out. Sap gloves, would be a bit harder to prove.

I like this. Thinking outside the proverbial box. I saw this movie oncet where Sean Penn whupped up on these two rapists in juvie with a pillowcase full of pops. It was awesome.

Blackjack. Most people don’t know how to punch. Everyone can use a fly swatter

Brass knucks will kill someone PDQ.

Why not just use your 1911 and save time on cleaning yourself up?

If you just want to hurt someone, use a long nightstick to the side of the knee... Swing it like you are going for a center field home run. Nobody gets up from that. Nobody.

It hurts like nothing else can.

I've been thinking a bit about this since my wife and I are going to be spending the month of April and some of May in Italy. Obviously I can't carry. And I can't take anything with me on the planes. Once I land in Italy, I'm on the search for something I could use in unfortunate circumstances.

i would only hit someone with brass knucks that i wanted to kill. they are devastating and delivered right cause very impact on the user for the amount of force delivered. i am sure that a jury would say the same thing.

Was going to add,

"In the spirit of the Campfire, I will answer a question you didn't ask".
But erased it, in the spirit of brevity.


Ok.

Sap gloves.
They will help protect your hands,
and,
When you take them off, your won't have blood on your hands.

A roll of silver (pre-1965) dimes used to work well for that, too. Easily carried around in a pocket. When gripped inside your fist, it adds quite a bit of wallop to a punch.

http://www.canemasters.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=86

I carried a spring assisted opening tactical folder with me, clipped inside my pants pocket, for ten days in Italy back in the early 2000s. No problems. Only thing was that, upon entering the Vatican, the guard insisted on holding it for me while inside, and then returned it to me on my exit. I was a little surprised he actually returned it, but I guess Italians are okay that way.

I would imagine that brass knuckles cut a lot more than saps. So, saps for a neat, clean job.

Sword cane. I'm a trained fencer. Also illegal to carry, but would be superior to a gun in crowds. (Your target, and beyond). I did check with my sheriff's department to see if it could be used as CCW, alas not. (Legislation would be required first).

Sword canes are perfectly legal in Florida with a concealed weapon license.

Not in Ohio. Weapons permit is technically a CONCEALED PISTOL PERMIT.

You'd be surprised what odds and ends are illegal in different states. Not too long ago, it was illegal to carry a switchblade in Kansas, but evidently that was changed.

Legal in Florida, but only with concealed weapon permit.

Typical. I mean, how is a switchblade any more dangerous than any other knife? How 1950's...lol

If it were me, and only for self defense.

There are more convoluted laws concerning edged weapons, than guns. A knife can be perfectly legal in one city, or county, and be illegal in the next. Length rules, double edged rules, spring assist, gravity assist, thumb stud assist rules, method of carry rules. It's nuts.

I've got several Estwings. Hard to conceal.

5.11 EDC PL 2AAA can be used like a kubotan and you can carry it on a plane. It also works as a light which is plenty bright at close distances.

That is way I like the hammer, it's not a weapon, it's a tool that was just near when you were attacked.

You'll end up in jail.....or the morgue when the "dickweasel" recovers.....

I'm not bad with throwing things. Always have a couple large screwdrivers in my tool belt, needed for that job, or not.
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/galleries/13699805#Post13699805

I never travel without mine, unless I’m going to London, then I take my sword umbrella.

I prefer a pick-axe handle.

Nothing beats a nice piece of hickory.

sap glove

Kind of depends on whether you are going to roll someone or kill them.

Neither.

Who the hell has time for such nonsense?

buy a 1/2 inch bolt 3-4 inches long and carry it in your pocket.

Manners maketh man.

I have to apologize to you in that I didn't specify I wasn't after advice from retards. Sorry for wasting your time.

We’ve got some brass knucks that have been in the family since sometime around the “gold rush”! My dad built a beautiful display case, holding them and a bunch of other family memorabilia from the 1800’s.

But, to answer your question.....I think I’d go with the gloves! memtb

If a person wanted the recipient to be aware of their schooling. the knucks might take that away by rendering the said recipient unconscious. The gloves being better for this, & as said, cleaner.
Now, something that's fun & surprisingly effective for schooling said recipient is an 18 or 20" piece of heater hose. Available at your local auto parts store. If the user were to practice & want for more, a bit of weight fixed inside the business end will enhance the effectiveness

I was told about this once..

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes....

When I was a kid, my eighty-something Grandma was always worried about a negro coming to her door and raping her. To that end, she always kept Grandpa's Remington model 12 loaded, her Daisy pump BB gun loaded and a couple of other weapons laying around. She had my Mom's old high school twirling baton in the corner behind the door. One day she showed me a length of washer material...hose and told me how she could use that to whip up on a rapist.

Sorry for bothering you. I know computer time is precious at the Sheltered Workshop.

I carried a 'brass' knuckles (which weren't really brass but cast aluminum) in a back pants pocket sometimes back in my young, single, hell raising days but never used them. The one time I probably could have but didn't was in a street fight at night where myself and a friend went to help a friend of his who had been jumped by a bunch of young punks. Once we got involved in the fight and took the focus of the punks off of him his friend cut out and left my friend and I fighting all the punks by oursselves.

The truth is I was so preoccupied trying to duck punches, kicks and whatever else coming from all directions that I honestly forgot I even had them with me. Probably a good thing too because back then they were very illegal. Was kind of funny though that the back pocket I had the knuck in had it's outline worn through from where I had been scooting around on my butt on the blacktop trying to avoid getting hit and kicked after they had me down.

A little irony, my friend's friend that we were trying to help out but then cut out on us went on to become a lawyer and held an elected political office.

My dad used to carry a weighted leather sap sometimes. He wasn't law enforcement but did frequent some pretty risky places when gambling. Never heard him say if he ever used it though.

I was in General Sessions court evicting a bum one time, while waiting, some extremely drunk guy came into court and couldnt find a seat. He starts mouthin off about it to while the judge is dealing with another case.

Bailiff came over and things got loud and then shît got real. Bailiff was an old korean war vet that I knew. He bobbed the bum with a blackjack a couple times and then dragged the guy out into the hall. I could see him continuing to the beat the bum thru fhe window in the door.


I had to get up and go take a break, I couldnt stop lmao


where's the nearest petrol station

lmao!

Refresh my knowledge of history and tell me when LBJ nuked anyone, please.

Extreme drunk dude might have been MM...which would explain why he didn't like this thread. Too much experience on the wrong end of one. lol

an old buddie of mine had a pair of sap gloves they are pretty nice! I saw him lay out a big fellow once upon a time with them! i have a very old Black jack found in a old house in Detroit when I was a kid,its all wraped in black tape, but it would kill if I hit someone with it, not that I would! i did carrie it a time or two in my younger days!

Youse all probably just signed up for Red Flag Friday.

Why whatever do you mean? I know, let's have a spelling contest!

Sap gloves no question. In a situation like this you absolutely want to leave as little evidence as possible which means either A...no witnesses or B...no physical evidence to be used against you in an attempted murder case. Whatever you do do it fast and from behind. Then get the hell out of dodge.

You decide

Thanks for your input.

Broken teeth will not gash your knuckles wearing the gloves,,, the human mouth as we all kno is a cess pool of diff infections,, and the gloves help make a tighter fist and help preserve your bones and the tighter the fist the more devestating the lick you lay down

Makes sense. Love the Ozarks.

Thank u sir,,,, we love em too,,, mostly good people,,very clanish but good people mostly,, The brass knucks do have a great thing going for them,,, they keep your fist straight,, so if you throw a miss lick and land with the outside of your fist,(pinky,wring finger knuckles) it will give them support an not break them,, they are usually the weakest bones in hand,,

Question...is the fill made of solid or is it shot?

Well geezzz Eathan, if you don't like some of the replies, how about your other guy has a gun and you are standing with a lead glove holding some brass knuckles?

But the gloves or knucks arent for self defence,, they are for dolling out a beating,when you play a mans game,it requires a mans price,,

Same answer, you knuckles him with 1911.

In my state, and probably others, if you approach me to "dole out a beating" and are displaying a weapon in a Rude, Angry or Threatening manner you will probably be shot to the ground. Knucks, sap gloves, axe handle, all the same. Playing games is for children and idiots.


mike r

Take it easy miker. Nobody is planning on beating you up unless you count one of the nurses tired of you dukeyin' in your Depends!

LOL while true thats for backup if things swing sour,, A beating with either tho is often times a good remedy for both parties,, and will have lifelong instructive value when used properly,,makes it more,,personal,, like a gift especially crafted for the individual they arent for self def ,,,

Maybe Ethan was just planning on just "sneaking" up behind someone and sucker punching said bad guy.

Then his mother in law should probably be nicer to him.

Around here too miker,,everybody around here is usualy packing,,, but like a condom ya know when to use what,,

In the very old days when growing up on the Reservation, a somewhat popular "need right now!" weapon was to tear a car antenna off. Makes a pretty nasty slashing type of weapon. Have also seen the "rock in a sock" trick used before.

LMAO, you tough guys w/ your brass knucks etc. talk too much.



mike r

Well there is that. If he is going to statr a fight wearing lead gloves and the other guy has a gun............ someone is going to be f u c k e d

So, when is it appropriate to use said items?


mike r

I have no intention of going looking for trouble, but I don't intend to be on the receiving end either. Head on swivel, be aware, know the exits, know what can be used as a weapon. Be nice.

My mom could take a keen switch or one of those metal handled fly swatters an devestate a a crowd of teenage boys,,

When it's not is when the nice nurse is changing your diaper or spoon feeding you even though she revoked your computer privileges.

Not do so well on your OP ther Ethan?

EE is the wittiest and toughest guy on the internet.


mike r

This could work nicely in Italy as protection. Get a pair of Dungarees with a hammer loop and you are free to take in the sites. 😎

You can take a cane anywhere, even into court.

Right answer....”Shooting him/her into the ground.”

#ChicksAndDicksWillBeShot

😎

i carried one of those for years while acting as county mounty. A little tap on the elbow etc was enough to change a persons thinking. Have one in my desk, now. they make a shorter versions too that is stiff, good to polk with. That version is springy, little more power in it. Mine is lead filled. Now my daddy when he was doing this in his day had the back half of a pool cue stick cut down, Drilled a hole throught the center, and filled with lead. It was quite effective when persuading was needed.
at about age 11, i was being threatened by a group of mexicans on the way home from school. Talked to my dad about it and he said they were brave in a group, not so much one on one. My job was to make them believe i was gonna seriously do some damage if they jumped me. So, he helped me tape some bicycle chain for a handle, and attach a big padlock at the end, went in my lunch box. Sure enough they jumped me one day, and i pulled that out and started swinging it. I said you might get me, but some of you are going to the hospital. They backed off, left me alone after that. Bully's are bully's under you card them. I still have that chain somewhere.

10 inch Crescent wrench in the back pocket. Never know when you need to tighten a loose nut.

You must don glove in advance of the beating.
Accordingly, sap glove beating might look like something other than self-defense.

Never know when you need to repair some fence.

Whatever the tool, hang on to it, don't let the bad guy use it on you.

I'll offer him one, from a distance....
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...-as-weapons-of-self-defense#Post13699805

Sir,

The best thing to do is a pair of kevlar knuckle entry gloves in coyote or desert tan. You can wear them all the time and thats that.

A sufficient length thin diameter phillips head screwdriver accents it very well.

Both of these items can save your life.

You should never hit with your knuckles but if you do these gloves can save you mucho pain.

Johnny, I wanna hear your screwdriver story....Who’d you stick in the face with it, allegedly 😬😎

Everyone should have one....I do.

The Mafiosi connected with the mob in Newport used to carry a roll of quarters in their pocket for this sort of hypothetical situation. It also helped with their propensity for making pay phone calls.

Well, of course you do....You’re a hexing, evil conjuring killer on an Apocalyptic scale. Irfubar is still trembling after seeing the shrunken heads in your yard...No he’s not an attorney. Just a poor Friar trying to locate our lost Brother Flave....😬😎

I used to tend bar when I was going the University of Washington and there was a Seattle cop would come a few times on the weekends and he thought it was cool to "Tap" somebody with his sap and check their ID to make sure the barmaid s we're doing their job. One night he must have "Tapped" the wrong football player because they found him in the trunk of his car pretty beat up by his own sap.
Never saw him again. Place was called Jilly's East in the 60's.

Mom was shear terror with a wooden spoon.

If a man learns properly to fight, and second to have manors the rest just usually works out, today I have no interest going hand to hand with anyone, and if I find it necessary I won't have any problem just shooting you.

There ya go Jimmy.

Make your self a cane for your aching back,feet,balance etc
Will give you plenty of reach for aggressive dogs etc
Legal to carry everywhere
I made one from a Crepe Myrtle Limb,light and Strong
Carved the Handle with a pocket knife ,painted it with craft paint from Walmart,sprayed it with Shellac from Walmart

Rollin' here...........

An umbrella with a couple box end wrenches in the end wrapped tight with electrical tape makes an excellent nondescript weapon where one can’t legally carry a more traditional one.

For us country boys going to school, with one or both eyes black kept the rest from wondering who did that, shame or respect, both are gained from fighting, there is a difference in fighting, and dealing with some one that harmed your family.

Its the cost of what you are winning for that must be weighted.

Here are a couple of more pics from my previous post
One shows where I scraped the bark off so I could use a woodburner to put the date it was made and my name and the family which all pitched in making it with ideas and even our Male cat WOLF (mouser extraordinaire) pitching in !

You will find the "HIT" from the lawsuit will hurt more/longer after using either one and injuring someone! If you are young enough to run, invest in a good pair of tennis shoes. Too old to run, invest in a 45 auto. GW

The older I get, the better a good walking stick looks.
But, just in case, I never go ANYWHERE without a gun and a knife. 🤠

I have a cane with both a sword and a dagger pick concealed into it.

I carried it around in disney world a few years back. Just to see if I could get in with it.

I always wanted one of those.

one of my stepsons used my daughters jeep to go to the corner store late at night, cops pulled him over as he was pulling in our driveway, they found my daughter's brass knuckles in the jeep and arrested him. the other stepson as been arrested for knuckles also.

legal to have a gun in your car but not brass knuckles.

Kentucky issues a CCDW (Concealed Carry Deadly Weapons) license which allows for legal carry of more than just concealed carry firearms.

https://docjt.ky.gov/forms/CCDW/Sum...CARRY%20CONCEALED%20DEADLY%20WEAPONS.pdf

Got accosted by a homeless beggar a while back.

He got so mad that I wouldn't give him money, that he punched my truck window.

Glad it didn't break, but I bet his hand did!

I had my Pistol with me, but couldn't shoot,because my life was not "threatened"

So, NOW I carry a baton as well as my handgun.

I bought my baton from ex police officer who runs a local gun shop.

It's 6" long and telescopes to 18" with a flick of my hand.

The officer told me about hitting a "perp" on the collar bone with a baton, and it made the perp throw up, it hurt so bad.

He said, here in Oregon batons are legal to carry, but not concealed.

So, I carry mine in a pouch on my belt, with the end hanging below my jacket.

Virgil B.

Ethan Edwards: I used "sap gloves" for a couple of decades and they are very effective and very protective to the users hands!
Proven that many times.
But the better close fighting aid is the good old "sap"!
When I became a police officer in the late 1960's the wool uniform pants I bought for duty from J.C. Penney's came with "sap pockets" sewn into them with leather trim to avert wear.
The sap pocket was exactly at "hand height" and just to the right of ones wallet pocket - so only the slightest of movement and you could fill your hand with this effective close quarters weapon.
In fact it was recommended to me when I was a rookie to buy two sizes of "saps" - one for use in the "ghetto" and one for use on the original "skid road" and in Ballard (drunken Norwegian fishermen area) etc!
The difference in size (weight) of the saps was to compensate for the difference in thickness of skulls and hair types/styles that frequented those disparate communities.
That recommendation also worked out well for me.
Never used "brass knuckles" but indeed have fought with several "perps" so equipped!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Its better to lung them, not da face

I'm having a pretty good laugh at this thread imagining some dipchit getting chippy at one of your Campfire get-togethers and he suddenly finds himself surrounded by a gang of greybeards whipping out saps, blackjacks, brass knuckles, swords, throwing knives, 1911's, and bunch of concealed pistols.

LOL

There's an old expression: "never fight an old man, he'll only kill you.".

lmao

That's a great story Ron. Thanks for sharing it. Hearkens back to a different era.

Uh...dunno what you're getting at. This thread has been great. Like I said, "educational purposes only" and I've learned a lot. Chihuahuas nipping at my heels don't bother me any.

Dear Ethan,

If you ever meet an old cop, ask to see his uniform trousers. Often times (depending on the location he worked) you will find a long slender pocket sewn into either side. This is where they would put their blackjack or sap as it is often referred to.

The pocket will be behind center line. As an officer approached they were taught to blade themselves and the blackjack stayed out of view.

When the moment was right, they would go to work.

Often referred to as playing "whack-a-mole" by old timers.

This is no longer legal.



Travis

Sap pocket

Some of the old timers were very good with slappers, knockout or cut

I have batons, a trench knife (which is a knife and brass knuckles), brass knuckles, throwing stars, switch blades, nunchucks, blow guns, tomahawks, road flares and of course guns and knives.

I’ve been on the lookout for quality SAP gloves.

Camera monopod (aluminum or carbon fiber) with a sturdy ball mount. Sturdy and light, carried on a sling over your shoulder. Hidden in plain sight.

Wonder if it's legal for citizens?

Don't forget nunchucks.

Or walking sticks and canes

Cudgel.

How many people has JohnnyLoco killed in this thread?

Never used sapgloves but worked with an old timer who swore by them. Brass knuckles will almost certainly make some pretty bloody, sapgloves not as likely.

I used to carry a leather blackjack when I worked plainclothes before they invented expandable batons. Never needed to use it on anyone but the threat of getting smacked with it brought a few people into compliance.

For old guys, sap. Billy club would be better. Remember you still have to connect. Gloves would probably still be on when someone finds you ko'd

Sap gloves offer the benefit of surprise as well. Swatting with them nothing in one hand, not punching wearing them. Backhand someone with them and they're going down.

Never know when you need a little coinage to get you through the day!!

That is pretty freakin' awesome.

https://youtu.be/nqwmLueVNx8

https://youtu.be/0wWQ-Hd5Efg

I have the Cold Steel brand sword cane.

I like that. I'd load it up with a roll of pre-65 quarters.

I made myself a zip gun back in the 50's. I never tried shooting it at
anybody though, because I didn't want to hurt myself - if it blew up.

Hey, careful. Those are "anti-vibration gloves" for riding motorcycles.

We made "knuckles" in high school shop class as casting projects.